THOTH

Hagarag - don't worry/get upset with folks calling you gay or fag - its pretty meaningless IMO. Just as these racial categorizations. What relevance are they really - these lables. I and others here are holding discussions and such with you (and everyone else0 - not having sex or measuring cranial characteristics, checking skin color or whatever - so these categories are irrelevant. that you have your own sexual life - and whateveer it is or however it can be characterized is your own business and - except as perhaps you relate it to something we are discussing for one reason or another - it is entirely irrelevant (and your own business). I fail to understand why people make such an issue over this....(and over the race thing...)

Gamavor - In no way will you find me defending the beliefs/actions of those on my father's side of the family...that being the case - they were country people - with no contact at all with ethnics and such - and to them any non-white (Anglo/Germanic/Nordic) etc - was - "Black"...and in fact equating Armenians with Arabs (and I just supposed this - don't know if it was true per se...) - well for folks such as they - we are essentially Arabs/Middle Easterners - what difference is it to them (and remember this is the 1960s - middle America we are talking about). I wouldn't exactly call these people low class - some were fairly wealthy BTW - (and I still own many many acres of prime farmland as part of my inherita\ence...at least I wasn't cut out...in fact...even though I am a "darkie" myself....i was a favored grandson & nephew - I was never ostrasized....my personality just shown through I guess...in fact personlaity wise etc I take after my dad very much...LOL) And along similar lines I once worked for this Okie (guy from Oklahoma)...who equated me with Arabs - this was in the mid-80s. I was always bringing in Basterma, Soujouk, paklava, Boreg, Choreg and such...and yes...the Homous! LOL...well he would always put down the food - claim that Reeses Penut butter cups or such and other American processed food was better...and regarding Humous - he asked what it was made of - and when I explained he hooted and said "thats what we feed the pigs back in Oklahoma" - so from there on out he would ask me if I was brininging in any more pig food to share...etc. And of course whenever there was any Arab terrorist attack, or if Khadafi were up to something he would ask me what was going on - because all you Arabs/Middle Easterners etc all think alike..... And Accel - good for you - be proud of what you are...why not...and in fact Armenians have a great deal to be proud of - and no need to connect themselves with Europeans per se...(the worlds imperialist/colonialists/ultimate worst Genociders...)

I'm speaking of Armenian gatherings where Armenian food exclusiley is being served... My Father's family probably had never heard of Armenians before...and while they may have been prejudiced against Greeks/Bulgarians/Spaniards etc - the fact that Armenians were noticibly darker - and more like (to them) Arabs...well... Armenians originating from the Balkans is very likely total BS. It seems that Armenians were settled in Anatolia for a log time beofre they were even know as Armenians... I am familiar with the Armenian battalion and when it was formed (and why...Hagarag basically has it right). Even in 1941 Germans were in desperate need of troops for the Eastern Front. Many Bulgarians, Rumanians and such also served... ...those quotes are good ones...BTW...no reason to doubt author one bit...and how many Armenian Hagarags could there possibly be. And regarding my sig - mind your own business...and in fact I have been told (in other forums where I use it) that it fits me well...

Well yes I realize that Homous is perhaps more Lebanese/Arabic then Armenian...but funny how it seems that it is served at nearly every Armenian event/gathering I go to (outside of my family - for which it is not a traditional food)... But - yes - I think 100% of all geographers/cartographers as well as Atlases etc would list Asia Minor and the Caucuses as part of Asia... Those (Hitler) quotes are from a fine book written by an Armenian (diplomat/lawyer as i recall) who spent a great deal of effort reserching it. In the book these quotes are footnoted and fully attributed. Funny - the last person to dispute quotes that I produced from this book was someone denying that Hitler ever said the "After all who remembers the extermination of the Armenians" quote...and he too said it was irrational for Hitler to say such a thing...regardless Hitler was an irrational man...and you must understand how desperate the Reich was for personel - particualrly on the Eastern Front. Towards the end of the war they were using young boys and old men... Yes others certainly suffered terribly at the hands of the Turks...but I can agree with you here - we certainly did suffer most...and continue to suffer IMO...

Sip - you may be able to benefit from that book...LOL. I think most guys could...

Sounds awfly boring...tantric dating...no thank you...and tantric sex is difficult enough...most don't have the patience to master it - or to even expirement properly...(too bad...)

My father never heard the end of it from some relatives (well he did - they stopped speaking to him...but indirectly I mean)....including from his own mother - who disaproved of his marrying my mother - a fairly light skinned Armenian. They considered that he was marrying a "black" and he was somewhat shunned. My father's mother and my own mother rarely ever spoke and my mother would not join us when we visited my grandparents. So much for "white" solidarity (with Armenians....)

Artaxias - so you are proud of Hitler, his views and of Armenians who joined the Nazis in WWII - how very sad (but not at all suprising). Here are a few quotes for you to consider (all from “Hitler and the Armenian Genocide” Dr K.B. Bardakjian BTW): Alferd Rosenberg, Chief ideologist of Nazism (the German Gokalp) stated: “Armenians are even worse than Jews” and called Jews and Armenians “the people of the wastes” Hitler is quoted as saying: “Considering that only a pure consciousness of racism can ensure the survival of our race, we were constrained to introduce racial legislation in such a clear way that such legislation could eliminate all alien racial infection, and this infection is not caused only by Jews. In enlightening the German people with regard to this racial legislation, we should conceive of it as having the task of protecting the German blood from contamination, not only of the Jewish but also of the Armenian blood” Hitler also is quoted as saying: “One of the most famous examples is the downfall of that people who were once so proud, the Persians, who now lead a pitiful existence as Armenians” Apparently Hitler believed that Armenians were once the original Persians – and although they were clearly “Caucasian” they had fallen low by blending with Semitic peoples etc. – thus he saw Armenians as somehow “fallen” Caucasians. So who is the loser now. No need for me to prove it - your twisted self-loathing views are proof enough. And you complain that AR makers Armenians look bad... And Gams - proud to be a Middle Easterner...and that is indeed what we are - however its all certainly a matter of semantics...but FYI Armenians are a people who's homeland is in Asia - at the very headwaters of the Tigris and Euphrates...and we eat Homus, pita and lavash...how much more iddle Eastern can one get...LOL

Racist claptrap. You briefly change your tune and talk culture - but you betray yourself and show that you are just racist. Quite funny (though tragic) coming from a Middle Easterner as yourself...one who racist Europeans look down upon as equally as any other non-Nordic European. And your theories on Egypt exactly mirror Hitler's theories about Armenains - where he saw us as "fallen" Persians. In fact there is much evidence of a mixed racial society in Egypt - wth plenty of negroid featured pharohs and Queeens. Likewise Upper Egypt was clearly an African kingdom and in later periods all of Egypt was ruled from there. I have no problem with this concept of respecting Western tradition - in the arts, regarding scientific achievement, and regarding concepts of political, economic and personal liberties that arose out of the West...but what you propose is far beyond this. Any way you may try to disguise it - your beliefs are essentially no different then Hitler's and those like him. Great company...are you proud of this? I suspect that you are - even if you won't admit it...

Funny - you are making jokes now - or trying to - aren't you. If not please enlighten me as to how any stance of mine is similar in any way to the MFA/Grey Wolves? In fact it is your beliefs - of racial distintion and one group being superior to another and the need to divide/weed out - like the Young Turks did to the Armenians - that exactly dovetails to the kind of thinking exhibited by Grey Wolves...think think..if you can...

I am not in favor of any State - including Isreal - to exist just for one race (or such). I think Isreal needs to be made more inclusive then it is...etc So dopn't go putting words/concepts in my mouth. Thogh why is it - with people like you - that you are always so quick to jump on Jews this Jews that - etc? Anyway I agree - there is no point to my talking with you - none at all...sweet (delusional) dreams...oh - one last point - I fear you are the distinct minority. Unlike you - if I were to discuss my thoughts and ideas with (most) Armenians - on the internet - or more importantly - in real life - they may or may not agree - but they would tend to respect my viewpoints as at least rational, thought out and meaningful...I'm afraid that most response to you would be just to turn away and shake their head...

Oh and Atraxias - good luck at your next skinhead rally - chances are they will brand you just another mud person - and I've seen this from them and such concerning Armenians (even from your friendly slavs and others...) - so don't think you are any different then any other darky in the world - face it - Armenians are not - nor will they ever be - associated with the lilly white Nordic European types - not a chance. (and I reject these racial concepts anyway - they are basically unsupportable from any objective science....and I find your gobblygook science unconvincing - at best...) I'm all for perserving culture and such - to a point. But you cannot live in the past. The world is becomming integrated - for bestter or worse (and I thik some/many aspects are worse...but what can be done?). People and humanity in general is changing - and at a rate like never before seen. Sometime in the not very distant future it is likely that all of your various arguments and such will have no meaning whatsoever to people...you can't stop time. Sure - if we have some major disaster - global nuclear or biological war or such - we might get plunged back inot a new dark age - ad have to start all over - but anything short of that - well - we are moving foreward and not backward - sorry - i know it makes you ncomfortable - as it does me - but that cannot be helped - its happening and nothing you or I can do is going to stop it....

Artaxias - your nuts. All of this you spout is complete gobblygook - of absolutly no value or merit. Talk of with us or against us - enemies and such - not including Indians/Hindi - whatever...its all nonsense - it has no meaning - except for you and your fellow paranoid supremacists (go ahead and deny - but this is what you are). You need to make this case for inclusion in this white/caucasian group to stoke your feeling of superiority - its obvious. Your putting down multiculturalis etc - well yes - I see this as the best thing - though I am for perserving cultural values as well - as people feel that they are still meaningful and valuable - and they are. But by eliminating these strict (false) divisions between peoples we are imporving understanding of one another (its not just "us" and "them") and imporving our chances of survival as a species (by lessening the irrationalities and intolerances that lead to war). You, my friend are a sick puppy - and I hope a dinosaur. I don't think you'll find much sympathy for your twisted views beyond the few who like yourself lack self-confidence and an appreciation for the universiality of humanity and the fact that we are all in this together. No - its people like you who wish for and perhaps act upon this concept of exterminating another group of people because they are differewnt. Shame on you!

LOL - I had a friend in LA do up his VAn similar to this (though we never did mount the machine gun on the top as we had talked of doing). Still - if you saw this van of his you would certainly get out of the way. It had no side windows - was jacked up with huge monster truck type tires and special raise dsuspension, painted gun metal grey...oh and it had a bored out and balanced Ford 350 engine geard down low for super grunt acceleration. Awesome vehical! Wish I had a pic...

I fail to understand this need by some Armenians to see themselves as "white" "whiter" or whatever - and that through this they somehow see themselves superior to others or some such. In fact I see the pre-occupation with this sort of thought to be a bit disgusting. I am half Armenian - with my other half being mixed Northern European (think white-white) (though I do tan very very well - and rarely burn....and am happy to be a "mud person" LOL). I have no issue with my mixed Europeans roots - and I have some pride/identification with my other lineages - but I think being Armenian is more special in and of itself then any association with other "whiter" or whatever ethnicity. I just don't understand the need for any Armenian to feel that they have to identify with Europeans/Caucasians or what not to give them a greater sense of self worth or superiority. This whole concept is alien to me. I think we should be proud of who we are - not because we exhibit some particular racial characteristic (OK - maybe the nose...LOL) or affiliation - but simply because we are Armenians. Our record of achievement and artistry and inovation stands by itself IMO. Obviously we are a bit of a mix...but it is our cultural legacy that should be important and our identification/affiliation with being an Armenian - regardless. These racial concerns strike me as somewhat ugly IMO...and reminiscant of the Nazis and others with racial beliefs that are/were used to elevate themselves in their own eyes and de-huminize others. These type of views makes one a lesser person - not a greater one IMO. And BTW - on my Grandfather's side - he and his family had flaming red hair. It has only passed as a tint/highlight inot later generations...but I always found this interesting. This, the presence of blonds, dark curly hair, and various other attributes is a testament that we are a mixed lot - racially - but we are all still Armenian - regardless - and this is what is important....

Yes - I have several. In High School (A long time ago for me) there were two Turks in my class - a guy and a gal. Both were really nice folks (and intelligent & fun etc etc)...in fact both had parents who were doctors. The guy was about the most Mongoloid Turk I have ever encountered...still, back then, I used to claim that he must be Armenian as he couldn't be a Turk - etc. I also had my other friends harrass him mercilessly (about being a "terrible Turk" and such...but he always took it pretty well...I think he was always a bit afraid of me though as I had [and cultivated] a reputation for violence and was always armed [with kniives...mostly]). The gal was super cute - she eventually married some doctor from Turkey and went back there to live. She had a younger sister (also very nice looking)who was my younger sisters best friend. Funny though - my sister tells of her family being very uncomfortable when they found out she was Armenian. I think they still stay in touch to a degree. And I have found that at various points in my life I have known and befriended Turkish folks. I see nothing at all wrong with it - in fact I think its a good thing. How can we educate if we don't communicate. And in fact we are very much alike in a great many ways. And of course - I think Turkish gals are hot! LOL....(as are Armenian women - regardless of what accel thinks...)

"Smyrna 1922: The Destruction of a City" by Marjorie Housepian Dobkin - indeed - its a great book. It is balanced, well researched, and factual and leaves no doubt as to who torched Smyrna and who plundered and killed the Armenians (and others) of the city. Its also clear that Kemal and the Turks benefited greatly form Russian and other European support to defeat the Greeks - who were basically only supported by England - and not well supported. I think that the Greeks - thoguh perhaps noble was their cause - behaved rather poorly in the areas they conquered - in fact they behaved much like the Turks - and this is/was a shame. They also attempted a bit much - particularly when it was obvious that they would get no support to do the rest of Europes dirty work. Still it is a shame that at least Smyrna could not have been saved...

What? You mean there's more to wine than red or white? All I know is that red goes with xhorovats and white goes with ... hmmmmm ... well ... nothing really! You have a lot to learn my boy...what can I say...LOL

I have no doubt that most guys could substansialy benefit from this book. Now what I couls use is "Advanced Kama Sutra techniques for Dummies" LOL! ...and I can think of a number of similar books that most guys (and plenty of gals) could benefit from...and yes (regarding kissing and such) - just about anything can be taught...and even if the will (and emotion) is there - its still possible that lack of experience or what have you could ruin it - so yes - i can see where such instruction might come in handy...

Azat - LOL - on second thought.... And yes sip Zippy! the pinhead! (you do mean Zippy don't you and not Ziggy) Oh yes...great stuff...I was going to add an appropriate Zippy quote - but it just slipped my mind... But a typical ZIppy quote might be: "Accept cabbages into your life" or some such...

I truly hate to see this sort of thing...but what can be done? http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/busi...eav050703.shtml http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insi...eav040903.shtml http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insi...eav012103.shtml

And along these lines (though I agree with the article and don't put creedence in these [silly] warnings)...still - some interesting developments... http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insi...eav061003.shtml

The "Dummies" series can be quite good. (Idiots one too I guess...not as familar). Face it - not everyone can be an expert or even knowledgable about everything (I know...I'm just special...LOL)...anyway - i highly recomend the various wine for dummies books for anyone trying to educate themselves beyond the strictly laymen level...actually there is really some very useful info in them...

Hi Maria - welcome!

LOL - again very funny...and perhaps very true...still...not all...and perhaps you should think of dating older guys...really and seriously. I felt much the same way as you did when I was in my late teens/early twenties. Except for a few gals i liked (or had crushes on) I was basically not interested. Sometimes i would just cringe when I heard a gal speak - they seemed so giggly/gossipy/shallow and generally uninteresting (except how they filled out a sweater or looked in a bikini) and imature (again see previous comment in parens)...so I very much tended to date gals who were 5-10 years older then I was...and maybe that would work for you...don't know. I do sense that you are very particular (which is good/OK)...but being too particular...lets just say i know some (fine looking) ladies that are in their 40s - never been married...probably never will...because they are/have been so super picky - no guy is ever good enough (and at least one is a real she-witch [but a real sexy one...still...no luck/prospects...]...anyway...) And yeah - it is/can be work...but what of any worth isn't? Think about it. And your not getting any younger gal. You gasls tend to have a window of oppurtunity (maybe not 100% true as I've known some older unions that have worked...)...but you know what I mean (and i agree with you entirely about the demands on the ladies versus men - and that thus you should expect to be treated like something special...because you are....). Anyway - my point is that you are not only missing out in the present (because relationships are great fun, help you grow, and are ussually rewarding all around)...but you endanger your future. Don't become one of those bitter-man hating-self loathing etc etc old(er) women - who can never be happy because they are so upset over their circumstances - etc...its just no good - for you - or the rest of us...And besides...you just sound too pretty to be wasting away with no guy to (serve and) take care of you! (and vice versa) LOL