THOTH

Well Domino - at least your not one of these guys... http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=...80&nav=168XGqk0 I heard about this earlier today & couldn't believe it. What are we comming to? Of course an office mate of mine commented that he wouldn't just want to shoot them - but he'd want to mount them as well...sure I can understand that...but the rest of it...(guerss I'm not a hunter by nature...maybe this is for you Mosjan...LOL)...and the $$$$ - absolutly crazy... I guess I must be missing a man gene somewhere - I just don't see it at all...does nothing for me...sorry/a bit sick really...IMO

I can't wait for hyebruin's counter...LOL...indeed funny though...

Thanks Azat...but I really don't want you to think I am some big benifactor for the Armenian community or Armenia or such - I'm not. OK - I do some things - support some causes/spout off to any and all (LOL) ...but pretty much I live my life as any other American Odar...what can I say? So I'm no better then anyone else. i do my thing - live my life - support and take care of my family...its what we have basically come to I think...

Vava - here here - I agree with your points. This is in part some of what i was trying to say. So what would you suggest?

Well I understand and feel your pain - Azat and the rest...but I'm not sure it is all so bad...and I don't doubt that many of your complaints and those of the others are nothing all that new. I can imagine much the same throughout our history...much is just human nature..and Armenian nature I think. As a people we rarely have been centrally organized and willing to put out for our kin (and country...when there ever was one)...and most people in general are apolitical - until it comes to something directly affecting them - believe me - I have been involved in (local) politics and I see it. And face it - most folks - particularly business folks are looking for the deal. If the cheapest and/or most available products are from Turkey - and there is a demand (because these are items that we are used to etc) well I supose we will be buying them. I try to buy Armenian when possible - just on principal...but I have no qualms about buying Turkish or whatever. For instance - a local market carries yalanchi - sometimes a Greek brand - sometimes Turkish - I will buy whatever is available...and in fact the Turkish product is clearly better (in this case)...tyhough I have never had to choose between the two - seems like they have one or the other. I do think that we should support Armenian products/businesses where available however - and I do - I will always buy Armenian if I can - even if priced a bit higher. Recently i was telling some members of my family how I had bought these gutter covers from an Armenian (fairly recent emigre from Yerevan I think). I was interested in the product and when I came accross an Armenian selling I didn't even care to lok elsewhere - i gave him my business...of course my family members tell me I paid to much/got ripped off (but that was without even knowing what I paid...LOL!)...they just assumed. Anyway I agree - I share your concerns that we are not doing enough to support are own - or even care to - and this is a shame...perhaps greater awareness is needed...campignsd at church - posters - education campaigns or what not...don't know...and of course more efforts to form joint business ventures in Armenia to encourage/stimulate imports from their is needed (just the environment is risky and I know it turns some off...) In the mean time - I don't see it as such a crime to buy Turkish - not really...even with the considerations of the past. In fact if Armenians puclicized (to Turks & others) that they had no qualms about it perhaps it would ease up Turkish feelings that we just hate them and could foster some friendship overtures - don't know. I feel similarly about opening the border. Obviously there are legit concerns about Armenias markets being flooded - but I really don't know the extent of this a sa p[otential problem..I just know that regardless of how many of us feel about the Turks it is not in our (Armenias) intersts to have them as an enemy - and some sort of cultural and economic reproachment may/will likely be required before political reproachment becomes a reality. And I do ultimatly think that this is desireable/necessary...etc

Didn't think so...knowing you - LOL (your cool...) ...and misunderstanding...the usual way of these internet forums anyway...and I hear you...I knew you weren't upset...

Woo hoo!!!!! - Well I just got back from playing basketball at the local YMCA...been playing on and off for the last year or three...couple a times a week. And well I sometimes (ussually) just shoot around, get into half court 3 on 3s or such...but today - full court 5 on 5...and I'm happy to say i pretty much held my own with the young kids (were not talking 10 year olds here now...)...in fact i was talking to some after and asking if they played on any of the local (High School) teams - as I know that some do....when I found out we had a few college level players! man - no wonder they got moves like that! I'm contiually impressed...but pretty much/more than held my own...not bad for an old guy (whose had 3 [abdominal] operations in the last 2 years...and surgery on his foot before that...not bad at all I think (well I certainly feel pretty good about it - LOL)...oh and the real kicker is that I had finished off (pretty quickly) 3/4 of a bottle of nice red wine just prior to going out! (Ot did start to come up on me a bit...but wasn't a problem! LOL)...(and that was along with some very spicy home made [by me!] hot chicken wings & [also home made] Pizza that I made earlier...LOL) and of course I'm finishing off the rest of the bottle right now...I feel pretty good...but I imagine I might be a bit sore in the morning... On a related note - there is an Armenian guy in our neighborhood (only Armenian neighbors...that I know of) who was a b'ball star for Syracuse a bunch of years back...and he still has game (& how...a dominant local player)...way outa my league...I've given him & his wife the URL for this forum BTW...but I don't think their too much interested...and though we are friends (& do some things together...) I think that I scare them just a bit (with my passion...about certain things Armenian...and just in general! LOL)

LOL - well lost of people think me a bit strange/odd etc - fer sure....but i consider myslef very very normal...really...its everyone else who screwed up!!!!!

Thanks Hyebruin...I don't mean to be turning anyone off...again just having some fun. Just an old horn dog eh? Actually not that bad...but I supose I have to watch myself a bit...conservative Armenian sensibilities and all. Actaully I think it is such a shame how many (most?) people seem to supress their sexuality quite a bit...sometimes in every way possible...or so it seems to me...makes life boring I think ...such a shame. Anyway its their loss IMO...but its a shame when they impose their puratanism on others ...and we have so many unhappy/unfulfilled people in this world...much is due to their own disposition and self imposed restrictions... (etc) And what normal red blooded male - even an old codger like me - wouldn't get worked up over some of the smart/sexy Armenian gals (like Nairi and yourself... ) on this forum...LOL...but again - all in good fun...I hardly really even consider it flirting per se...just being me...and sorry gals - my heart belongs to another (or others - if consider my entire family...)...and that ain't likely to change...though I certainly have capacity to love more then one (and have...even one after another in the same room! [a story not for this forum I think...but perhaps appropriate for Literotica! ]..LOL )...please don't read anything at all into any of my comments...except for playing around, and of course giving deserved compliments! LOL ...anyway

Dude, you are seriously perverted, man. I could have you banned and arrested for this, you know. The least I can do, I guess, is hope you didn't forget my flabby belly, cellulite thighs and graying hair. LOL - hey don't ruin it! ...and none of that stuff matters anyway (at this level - eh?) ...its whats between the ears that matters (and your OK by me! ) LOL And I'm not perverted BTW...OK, maybe I have my fetishes...but all in good fun - eh?

Vava - perhaps - though i really don't think its so universal or so simple...I know I'm lucky though (got a good one)....I'll even tell her which strippers i liked best...and she has no problem with me going out to such...when some of my buds need to sneak our to such places...and one had a major to do with his girlfriend over such...though I don't think the personal letter helped any...LOL

Sip - have agreat trip (hope you don't regret your decision - but what the hey...) Nairi - I'm imagining you all covered in sweat (I'm think sweet - LOL)...then in the shower of course...LOL...so whats next are you going to tell us what you had for breakfast..LOL - just pulling on your chain a bit...that is allowed isn't it - I mean now that your a mod? I won't get a warning or anything will I? Azat - what a softy you are - LOL....I guarrantee you I out sweat you (even outsweat nairi I imagine...but perhaps we will need to compare sometime..LOL)...hey take care!

Actually yes - I talk to my wife all the time about my interactions on the internet (girls, guys, hagarags, whatever.....doesn't matter)...as much as she is interested of course (sometimes yes - sometimes not)...and i'm just being me (can't be any other way)...and I've always been friendly with everyone...even pretty gals...LOL...though I have to admit to being more shy when I was younger (though not really, not so much...)...more that now i don't care so much perhaps - i'm likely to say anything/less intimidated...but i am a gentlement (again thats just me)...but don't be surprised if we would ever meet that I might compliment your looks...even very specifically - LOL - if I like what I see...and I'll look - and not be shy about it...heck i might even ask you to turn a certain way so I can get a better view or such...LOL...no need to hide it (even with my wife...she knows I look - and is not bothered a bit...why should she be really? ....and we sometimes will compare notes...LOL - all on good fun (I don't think of other women when we are together though...no need...even if we might discuss such just for play - to heat me up a bit...though not ussually necessary! Its all about being comfortable/secure in our relationship I think..and I feel equally comfortable the other way...what do I care if she thinks some guy has a great butt or is cute or such? More power to her...she even tells me about getting propositioned sometimes!...not like it occurs all the time...but it does...couples should be able to have fun with these things I think...and yeah as I've gotten older I've gotten more comfortable with women and talking about sex and what not....though I'm not really a flirt per se (and not around the wife certainly - thats really not cool...)...I'm more like your friend I think...anyway enjoy your Dwarves (singly and as a group...LOL)

Actually that shoudl have been: "One day you will find your Prince, Hyebruin"...my mistake! oops And you think I'm sweet? (really...blush/aw shucks etc)...actually I thought I was razzing you (well just a bit...having fun with you...etc...LOL)...but the last thought about you finding your prince...thats genuine...you seem nice/sweet/Armenian etc - so why shouldn't I hope the best for you?

Sip - yeah I'm sure...LOL I agree - I don't ussually like air conditioning in my car - windows wise open/top down - thats for me..my wife ussually feels the opposite...so what can one dao? When I drop her of at work in the mourning I always immediatly switch off the air con and roll the windows down... Heat in a car - I rarely need it (and certainly never in LA)...sure if its 20 degrees outside or such and the car is frozen overnight & such...but notrmally - nope. Though I do understand the top down (sometimes jacket on) with heat going full blast! LOL - I love to get my Mustang out in the winter on sunny days - even when its cold - and its alwasy (and I mean alwasy) top down (only air con is natural....)

So are you the Dasi that we know and love or his evil twin from the bad/reversed universe (a la Star trek)!...subjecting us to all of this...LOL. Actually I love this sort of stuff...but not after two glasses of wine...perhaps I'll check it out another time...

LA too cold???? When I moved to LA one of the first things I did was to turn the pilot light off in my heater...only turned it back on (4 years later...)when my wife - whom I was dating at the time (well one of the gals I was dating at the time...and my favorite of course...LOL) said she would stop comming over if I didn't turn the heat on in my place. And that reminds me of a stay at a Hotel in Istanbul in May (many years ago) - when it was still pretty chilly at night. Our room's heat wasn't working...and when (at the behest of my then [and now] wife) I complained...they sent someone up with some additional blankets!! (which was what I initially proposed to my wife when she complained about the lack of heat in my apartment...LOL Sorry to hear your not/wer'nt sleeping well Nairi...don't you have air conditioning? Heat is something I can do without...but sometimes I just got to have air....

Guess you should come to expect that hanging around with Dwarves...LOL Sorry - had to say it... ...whileI knew that Dwarves were short (in stature) I didn't know that they were also quick! So now I know why Snow White said that she held out for Prince Charmig becuase he held out for her! Maybe one day you will find your Prince Hyebruin...

I think men and women will always be somewhat mysterious to each other...though a lot of this can be overcome with just a bit of effort (just like between Turks & Armenians - perhaps - eh?). Most folks are just more comfortable sticking with what they know...thus guys tend to understand the "guy" perspective and gals theirs...natural I guess...but in many ways each is missing out a bit...though its also good that we are not all the same - isn't it?

I have a relative who is very involved in assisting recent emigrants from Armenia - helping them get jobs, get places to live, find their way around - how to survive etc. All he can do is say how much he admires these people - how hard they work - how talented, industrious and intelligent they are and how well they are suceeding. Maybe we are talking only about those who settle in California and not elsewhere - eh?

I am firmly of the belief that we as living beings are dependent upon our biochemical proceszses for life and that we can have no existance beyond them (unless some way were to be found to replicate the functions)...even with this - in a different body we are a different person - (just as we are from day to day as our bodies change over time and our experiences are integrated...) (can never step in the same river twice sort of thing)...and i don'r belive it is possible to replicate someone - certainly not by cloning...anyone who thinks this just does not understand what it is to be a person/a living being... What was it that you were saying Domino? LOL Really Domino - you remind me of....me...about 20+ years ago...except (you are) smarter...

Nik - I don't disagreee with you about Turkish historians in general per se - they generally suck. And the society accepts - is based on such myths...and this is a problem - one that the Turks desperatly need to overcome. Seems like you have read Ackam - so you should appreciate some of this - why - for the Turks on good - they need to break out of this - and "admitting" the Genocide is a major part of this...

Nik while you have some good points about the nomadic/conquering background of the Turks (and the depridations of such upon the sedentary peoples) - and the relative lack of sedentaty skills etc - i think you overstate some of this a bit. First - yes - it is clear that the turks of today have greatly changed and adopted Anatolian culture...but they have also brought their own influences as well. And in fact the Ottoman Government and the Millet system was very inovative for its time really...and in fact allowed the Christian people to pretty much continue to prosper - really unitl modern times (19th Centurey) there wasn't so much of an issue in many respects - sure the ottomans were overlords - an how good can that ever be - but pretty much Armenian culture was saved from the Bizantines and to some extent the Western Europeans who wouldlikely have conquered and slaughtered everyone (as they did when given the chance). Al I'm trying to say is that there are really two sides to this and the Turks were not (always0 all bad. Obvioulsy their Empire model was built on conquest and expansion - and whrn this ceased around 1500 or so things started to go gradually downhill and the rule eventually became harsher - particulalry when in the 18th - 19th centurys the Otoman concept of (very conservative) government had outlived its usefulness and the Turks became a shackel to the conquered peoples. Otherwise I find your discussion of carpets and food somewhat immaterial to this discussion...and the Turks of today really is more Anatolian then Mongolian or Turkmen per se - and Armenains and Greeks - like it or not - lived amoung and assimilated Turksih clture just as well as the opposite - so in fact we are very much alike...

Domino - I can't agree with you here - on all fronts. Admittedly - I haven't had the oppurtunity to attempt to convince denying Turks of late - and it is an incredible effort to do so...but I must say - as thoughough with the facts as you are - your ability to make the proper type of argument/presentation is somewhat lacking - and this is not just your problem - it is very difficult to know how to pitch/present these issues in a manner whwre they will be acpeted. In general i think you are too confrontational to be convincing to those who are predetermined to reject your message. I, on the other hand can be very pursuasive - I know how to communicate in a manner that allows this to be. If I could spare the time & energy (which I can't at this moment...but perhaps you are convincing me to join your phantoim on t.com etc to prove myself...LOL - w'ell see)...but at present I will accept that my contentions here are unproven. On the matter of weather it was necessary for the Armenians to be eliminated in order for the emergence of a Turkish State - or for a continuance of some sort of Ottoman State (as CUP was still Ottoman)...again - I say this is perception - and I dispute the contention that this perception in fact much pre-dated the Genocide at all (as official policy - thopugh certainly it was in the minds of some). Remember in 1908 Armenians and Turks celebrated together the CUP ascendency. Even as late as December 1914 Armenian troops battled on the side of the Ottomans and were praised by Enver. Even Dashnaks pledged loyalty. And there was no uprising of Armenians - aside from some battleing against (initially) Kurds in VAn province and such. The vast majority of Armenians had no thought of a future other then within the Ottoman Empire - and this is fact. I believe that it was only a faction of the CUP who were highly paraniod and looking for scapgoatism in face of a loosing war, failing economic policies and to satisfy a refuge issue that remooving and stealing from the Armenians became a convieninet way to solve these pressures. Obviously sone were/may have been thinking (cynically) longer term - but in fact there was no real need to eliminate Armenians. For ,ost all intensive purposes Armenians were "good Turks...or at least good Ottomans". It was only the paranioa and the oppurtunity (sahort term) for relief from other pressures that frove the CUP to their radical "solution". I think it was really only with Kemal and the Nationlists that this idea of complete elimination of the Armenians become a necessity. They realized the need for Turkish identity to solidify their hold/claim on Anatolia (remember CUP was Pan-Turkick...and rally only after 1912...) - and the Nationlists realized that any Armenains left around meant real problems for them down the road....I really think that prior to thehard ined pan-Turanist triumvarate taking power there was no reason at all that the Armenians couldn't have been integrated into a "modern" democratic Turkey...thuis the necessity was a problem/issue of their own making because of ideology, oppurtunity, paranoia and circumstance...

OK Domino - i understand...though I cannot accept that destruction of the Armenians was necessary - it was percieved to be necessary...though obviously - the Turks had to know that if they lost the war 9and it certainly looked that way not much into it0 - that the Armenians would have their day - as it were - and Sevres is an example of course of what the Turks could expect. But after all - they did enter into the war (agressively) - they did lose, they did prove that they were not competent to govern the minorities - so they should have lost these areas (even with Armenians not being the majority in these areas....). But it was the CUPs decision to go to war - if Turkey could have stayed out of the war 9not been greedy for Pan-Tukestan) then perhaps they - in the spirit of the original CUP) could have transformed the Empire and included the Armenians. But we are viewinfg all of this in hindsight, So much bad blood had built up (due to Balkan and Crimean events etc0 - that reconcilliation was a very difficult proposition)....still - Armenians - the vast majority of them were loyal and apolitical - they just wanted to be left alone to live their lives. And many - such as part of my family - were fully integrated into Turkish life (almost dual citizens),,,so many were just unintersted in any kind of revolution...reforms yes, certainly.... And i do think that intellectual/educated Turks are able to see all of this just as we are - mor edifficult to admit the (essentailly/effectively) one-sidedness of course (outside of minor agitation no greater then variosu Kurdish inserections or other such common) happenings...with only the added element of a distinct religious and ethnic community and interest (noble perhaps and otherwise0 from outside powers...). But I do think that if we were to talk this out in these sort of terms that many more Turks could 8nderstand and yes ultimatly lisiten...but I myself have tired of these pissing contests...though, of course I wish you sucess/victory...particualrly over the racist nationalistic hatful Turks...