THOTH

...I don't think its a matter of pleasing Jews or such...but of recognizing that not everyone/every people is a mono-block. Of course there are many Jews who understand the Genocide and support the Armenian cause etc. Now why alienate them? Obviously we all are aware of the special interest lobbies, organizations and even the stance of the Isreali government...but this is not all Jews and I think its a real mistake to take out our frustrations on all Jews because fo the realpolitik and what have you of certain (admittedly influential) Jews...still...

Well - its not like I think about her all of the time...or even often..but yeah I do (at times...yes...)...and its (to a large part) indicative of the great love I had for her...and probably to some extent still do have....and I have some of these feelings about other gals I have known in my life too - to varying degrees (some more lust - some more love etc ...LOL...somewhat joking there...but perhaps some truth to it as well)...and I don't think that this lessens at all the love I have for my wife...not in the least (she is even very well aware of some of my feelings..towards certain ex's, others [very good long time friends...] and such - some of whom I even keep in contact with a bit...others who are my good friends even now...)....but thats just me - I have a very big heart...with room in it...for many - I think (I know)...LOL. And my wife is very cool - and understands me well - very well - and gives me a pretty good (amazing really) leash in a lot of ways...(a few years ago I even went up to another city to visit an ex [who is still a good friend - and was before we ever dated and such....though haven't seen her in a few years...] for the weekend and we went out clubbing and having fun together...all with my wifes blessing as it were...and we have both visited her together as well...she is a fun gal! LOL) . And I have no qualms whatsoever about my wife feeling and expressing these type of cares etc for others (we trust each other and are very open towards/with each other...maybe a recepie for martital success eh?)...and in fact we have remained friends with one of her (long time) ex's - and occasionally (as they are on the West coast) see and do things with him and his family (wife & [like aged] children). I don't have or see any problem with this at all....(so don't be sad!) ...and on the lust side...well guys lust about all kind of gals (all the time)...so nothing unusual there...LOL...and I know gals do to (regarding guys they see/know or what not...and movie stars and that sort of thing...etc)...perhaps it is different then how guys are/do (understood)...but not entirely and in many ways somewhat/very much the same...(and its all natural and in good fun)...so I see nothing at all wrong with it...(and particualry since I had such incredible experiences with her in particular [and we did some very crazy/fun things...!]...just thinking of things we did sometime can get me very worked up...LOL)

Sip - what kind of an Armenian are you? LOL There is a great contrast between the way my Armenian side (family/relatives...etc) has always show their affection as opposed to my other (Northern European/mixed) side. My Armenian relatives were/are much more physically (and emotionally) affectionate...including - with some - that cheek thing...where your cheek can hurt the whole rest of the day...LOL (I find myself doing that now even sometimes [to my nephews & nieces and kids & such...]...LOL) But its ashame that that doesn't do anything for you - as I find touch - even holding hands or a little hug etc to be such a positve thing that makes me feel good. Even some of my (male) friends and I hug when we see each other (no kissing...OK with some...[Europeean friends] we kliss cheeks & such...the French way...LOL]- and I think this is part of our closeness...our bond...and makes us closer - stronger friends and such. I think it is very important. And I think this is indicative of a problem for you - unable to be intimate. While you may deal OK with that now (it probably doesn't at all bother you I would guess)...I think at some point down the road you may crave/need this etc - and you may be unable to experience it...and this may really hurt you...

Well 'Bruin - I must admit - talk is easy...and I have very many of the same faults as other guys (and maybe a few more)...so no one is perfect...but, I must say - I have always tried to treat women with respect and understanding. And I just can't believe the attitudes/behaviors of some/many guys...and how they can get away with it... I know that (in my youth) there have been some women who weren't interested in me because I was "too nice a guy" - and not macho/agressive or whatever - really (LOL)...well their loss in many ways (but I certainly have regrets...)...so perhaps think about it...not that I couldn't talk to gals...but yeah, perhaps I was a bit shy/didn't make all the right moves etc...so think about that...maybe your "perfect guy" (OK no such thing...but I'm talking someone who really thinks of a gal's needs and treats her right [in every possible way]...and perhap not at all bad in bed [in my case I was trained well - by an older gal who very much knew what she wanted ...etc] - well these guys are out there...they might just often be overlooked...

Yeah dude - go for it! And you've already been given lots of good advice...so clean yourself up a bit...lay on the charm...and try to find a nice one...

I don't necissarily agree...or at least it goes both ways...there is really something special in having an actual girlfriend...someone that you perhaps care about more then just a casual date...some of the best times in my life were when I have been in this situation (and in many ways marraige is even better...less stress in certain respects...but yes much is missed as well...its almost too comfortable in some respects...)...but having a steady girl - one whom you get to know well and know what they like (and don't perhaps...) is very special....

"Oh my God...." Yeah - I love when they say that (and when most of the rest is pretty much unintelligble...) LOL

Sasun - I have often said - who am I to question the revelation that another has had or at least claims - and OK - I can accept that on a certain level - and I apoligize if what I say has been offenisve to folks - that I discount their belief...I acknowledge - who am I to say? really /anyway....However - while I think your effort is noble and I see value in your meditation - at the same time I question - not the truth of it for you - but the truth of it...just in general. We can make ourselves believe in many things that are not necissarily the truth (all kinds of things...perhaps President Bush is a good example of this...). You may feel that you are touching/experiencing etc the divine...and who knows..but its just as likely (in my mind) that you are experiencing what you are expecting and interpreting it according to your a priori beliefs...what can I say? I know folks who meditate and gain benefit from such - who do not make the calims that you do (or who make other claims concerning what they are experiencing/revealing)...so who realy knows for sure...and in the end what difference does it really make? I think that I live a moral life - by most standards - and am a good person. So what difference does it make if I accept or reject this notion of some divine being who sets standards and expects certain behaviors etc? (for [my] life on earth...and that is all I am willing to accept - not some tales of places that cannot hardly be described....and certainly by no one who has experienced them...). I don't fear eternal damnation (though I condemn [and oppose] any such being who would proscribe such for me)...I have no need to feel a hope for a better life in some other place etc (unless I could be young again...and naughtier...LOL). In fact the Christian god/world view in general - leaves me little enthused...and your version - while plesent and nice to think about perhaps...also leave me wanting in terms of anything real to me...so what am I left with? Still trying to live well and enjoy life, provide for my family, love and educate my children, and not be a burden to others (perhaps even help out a few - which I certainly have done - in many significant ways...)...and yeah if I understand a few things - and pass (some of) my wisdom on - well thats gravy...other then that...I really don't know (and neither I think does anyone else...)...peace my brother...

LOL 'Bruin...OK - (I very much agree) men and women very differemt (for the most part) in outlook/perspective/priorities (the list goes on..of course)...but you still lost me a bit I think...(duh)...and I really don't think there will/can be ever true understanding of the other sex (except perhaps in some very extoridinary/insightful individuals...and I don't know - perhaps you are one of them...though I'm not so sure about that - regardless of some of your insights...)...and I think that theere will alweasy be agony/hurt feelings..even for us that try (and I mean really try) to undersatnd the other...all the time...

Well Harut...i feel sorry for you...(for your attitudes)...even if perhaps you do have a point...but a womens body is a temple...to be worshipped...and don't you forget it! I'm not a religeous man...but ...well...we'll leave it at that...LOL ...and its not just the body...though I was intentionally referring to such...but women in general...and yes - many are perhaps as you say...but still...women are precious and should be treated as such...(and men are generally just shits...though not all of course...)

Yeah Azat - very good points...and by this standard (deficit growth/reduction) I guess we should have kept Clinton in for life eh?

Sasun - perhaps if we are all part of God (and vice versa etc...and I don't necesarily discount this line of thought..though I still think its beyond our understanding to make anything of it...) then what expalins the nastiness of mob behavior? Shouldn't we all be more Zen or such when we get together as a group(don't know if this makes sense and its just popped into my head just now anyway...)... What I fundementally reject is this notion that we can at all know/presume to know or understand what this God is (if there is an is to understand per se)...as our human perspective is so limited and cannot comprhend any type of being with the omnicent/omnipotent/universe filling attributes etc that this God supposedly embodies - etc. So basically - IMO - we have no idea - and are essentially making it all up. maybe it gives some/many folks a feel good - as they then believe that in fact they understand something about the ultimate nature of things or some such - but to me I see little value in such postulation (or at least in comming to some conclusion with such postulation). And everyone seems to have at least a slightly different (or even diametrically opposed) idea/concept anyway...and we all can't be right can we? In fact I lay odds that we are all wrong - and basically have to be - we cannot understand and in trying to claim that we can/do we are just making it up and what good is that? ...just gets people all worked up (negative) and lkilling people & such....for what?

Good points Stormy...and I never have a problem letting my wife pay (LOL)...as I end up paying the (credit) bill anyway...of course her income is nearly mine (essentially equivilant now) - so we are equal partners in all respects...(one benifit there SIP - find a gal that makes some good money eh? - might be able to afford that Hummer you've always wanted...LOL...particularly if you find a gal that's into hopping rocks & such...) Funny - we are getting some new family room furniture (junked the perfectly good [iMO] "old" stuff earlier in the summer)...so of course I say we need a new TV to compliment it...LOL (secondary one...not to replace the killer projection HDTV we have for the "media room")...and the wife objects of course...but I am claiming the offsetting spending rule...whenever she spends a gob on furniture or stuff around the house...I want to get some new electronics & such...LOL

Yeah - I do sympathize (or perhaps the word is pity...myself that is....in this regard). LOL! Prior to settling down (even before kids - but certainly now...) I was a very spontaneous person in this regard. And its tough now...and sometimes I do wish for more of this (being able to just take off on a moments notice & go do something etc)...and actually I am able to do some of this (sometimes by myself/with friends...cause my wife is pretty cool about it...and sometimes grabbing the family and saying - OK here is what we're doing/where we are going...etc)...but yeah I miss this freedom...because with kids & schedules etc it becomes pretty tough...even if I have no qualms about taking the kids out of school to do some things (fun/educational)...etc (well unfortunatly the wife doesn't always feel the same way about it...)... But you know Sip - it ain't all bad...and you just need to find the right gal - somone who shares your interests (& spontinaity)...but yeah - some personal sacrifices are always inherent in a relationship...but you havve to weigh the benefits along with the costs eh?

Yes - politics as entertainment - it has come to this. Well I have always counted myself as a (vocal) supporter of a prior mayor of DC - MArion Barry - you may have heard of him - videod by the FBI buying & snorting cocaine - while the mayor of DC!!!! Well I always supported him for his entertainment value alone...I mean DC is basically non-funtional anyway (as a real city) - you you might as well get some laughs out of it...(looks like California - just in general - is finding itself in a simialr boat....go Arnold! LOL - Group sex in the Govenors mansion - yeah! LOL

wow nairi - I really liked that...so young, yet so wise! LOL And none of you yungins have any comment at all about the two long posts I made in the other Love & Romance thread? (discussing relationships, marraige & havng kids & all that...) - am I so out of it/distanced from all of you that nothng I said had any impact/made any sense? LOL http://armenians.com/forum/index.php?showt...wtopic=7097&hl=

Well Arad - I guess it is good to be God (beyond all [moral] judgement... And yes - the lesson of Adam & Eve and the Garden of Eden (I would suggest you attempt to familiarize yourself with the original version - from Summeria...as told by the Babylonians...that was paraphrased and [intentionally] destorted for your Biblical version)...but anyway - the standard of this God of your for godly behavior of his prized creatures is for us to reamin ignorant of all things (to basically have no higher knowledge/learning ...to reamin as the other animals...this is your lesson. Is this a good thing I ask you? Does this God of your truly have our best interests at heart? Or perhaps has this whole parable been grossly distorted and misundersood. All hail Enki - who gave mankind the wisdom and learning of the gods! and I mean it..LOL...

Yes - relationships all take effort. Too bad some folks never figure this out..

Sasun - Yes - I know many who have waited until their mid/late 30s or early 40s to have children - and then find that they have difficulties or can't - this is a particualr issue with women as they age - getting pregnant becomes increasingly difficult - if not impossible. Many of our friends have had to resort to artificial or assited means - with mixed results and in at least 3 cases complications - all of them difficult to deal with - some with lasting impact. On a happier note - all are with children (in some cases in multiples! goes with the territory with these sorts of things...) - and one couple just adopted a little boy (from Russia...I tried to talk them into adopting from Armenia - but her family was from Russia - so thats what they chose)... The "dish" issue is really a complex one (not just so simple as you have portrayed) - and there are many different situations...though in general/for most your advice is probably best... And yeah - many people should really not get married (and too bad for them...) and others (some of the same) should certainly never have children - they just aren't cut out for it (lots of folks just can't subserviate themselves/their needs etc for others in general (for instance on the surface I would question American-Hye having children from his (somewhat narccistic) portrayal of himself here - though I'm not saying that he wouldn't make a good father - I really don't know him well enough. And this was a problem with one of my (earlier) loves of my life - she was - for the most part - unintrested in having children (as well as having some problems in that area to begin with) - and I don't think she would have been good mother material at all (unlike my wife! - who is a super mom! - and a great partner all around). As much as I loved her and as well as we generally got along (and as great as the sex was - which it certainly was...too good - and that even was a problem...it was like we were addicted to each other - even when all the rest of our relationship was essentially long over). I knew that our relationship was ultimatly doomed (and this caused me great sorrow). So I broke up with her (numerous times...LOL...funny the first time we broke up it was her dumping me...but all the many times after it was the other way around...but then I would be weak...LOL)...and I still think about her (with love & lust - LOL) ...(though we haven't at all kept in touch...probably/most certanly for the best - LOL)

Goof point Sip & I agree (prostitution, difference between moral and civil laws etc). I'm afraid that the higher authority (that could be imposed with Arad's thinking) could be calling himself Ayatolla...LOL...think about it...

Stormy - I'm not so sure its the issue of seeing another dish (literally...in a sense...LOL) and wanting it (over/in addition to the one that you already "have" per se) - though I guess that is a factor (and maybe the factor for some...and some [mostly guys] just can't pass up a dish that is available/offered to them & such and some just like the thrill of collecting and the like...). And sure I see all these cute young gals(and sometimes even yes...older/near my age etc...but mostly when your my age I think its the young gals that get you thinking...and maybe even seeing young couples and thinking again of those fun times...etc) and I certainly have desire (though not such to act on it...) - etc...but the boring thing (for some of us I guess) is more that with new things often/ussually comes excitement - and with routine (no matter how good/satisfying or what not)..well it becomes routine (and thus inherently less interesting then it could be - and certainly does not [ussually/always] fulfill/push those buttons the same way (as with something new...like a new car versus the one you have had for years...sure the old one may still drive great and be fun...but there is just something special and exciting about the new one...) - not at all - its a completley different thing...and for sex and just for being around/with someone all the time it can become a factor (loss of excitement and getting into predictable [and inherently less thrilling] routines. Thus couples really have to work at it to keep it interesting (and its also why or one of the reasons why - I think you often find older folks into the kinkier (sometimes quite bizarre - LOL) stuff...they need to do something to spice it up. (and I think that you are impling/understanding some of these things...well at least the first part of my point/post which is perhaps inherent in your post).

LOL....(OK Sip - I'll weigh in now...and this is for you....LOL) I basically agree with 'Bruin on this one (said and hinted at that is...) ...my advice though to Shiner & Stormy is (and to Sip...and perhaps 'Bruin as well - wishing for her to perhaps ease up her - seemingly very [too?] high standards - LOL - and find a good [Armenian or otherwise?] guy who gets her all wild [grrrr!] & tingly [ahhh!] but treats her as the fine thing that she is/deserves...etc) - don't wait forever/too long...you might really come to regret it (and there is no turning back time). I cannot emphasize too greatly how rewarding a relationship is with someone that you care deeply about and who cares for you the same and who you can do/see/experience wonderful things with...it will envigorate and make you a better person (and you always learn - about yourself - about things you never thought/know...and [if you are open to growing - as you should be] learn to appreciate new perspectives and truly grow as a person - much more than you ever can being alone...doing your same things etc) - and as you progress in your life (and perhaps move on - perhaps not...if they are/seem like "the one" or whatever) - these will be your most cherished memories (outside of perhaps your childhood...and then later your childrens childhood and growing up)... Its interesting to note how attitudes about marraige and family etc have changed/evolved so much from (not all so long ago...and from what still is the norm in most [traditional] places) to what we have now in the industrialised West and in urban dominated areas etc. Not that this is so much a bad thing...it just is. Also this idea of not being satisfied/becomming bored etc with only one parter (though a long life etc)...well this is not really a new concept...its just that our current lifestyles (with much more contact between the sexes...away from the home or otherwise)..as well as the more open discussion/awarness of sexuality (and the ever present media hype...young & restless, the naightly lives of the rich & famous...whatever)..well it gets people thinking & such (and this also may not be entirely a bad thing...if only more folks were more mature and open about things...etc [probably could warrent a whole discussion in itself...]) . And we also have a much higher participation etc in pre-marital sex and folks tend to have more partners through their life anyway (I'm talking pre-marraige here...)...(so in a sense get used to the idea of sex with more then one person in their life etc)..well that is just the way it is - and likely as our society eveolves things will move even more this direction. But back to the original question - there are many reasons (and I think 'Bruin has hit on some of the main ones) why folks seek out relationships/significant others and what have you (and Sip mentioned I think the evolutionary...and basic biological factors [and Domino didn't you once - long ago - say attraction was all chemical or such? I don't completely agree - but certainly there are biological/hormaonal factors at work as well]). And certainly as we age and go through phases the reasons for wanting (needing) a partner evolve as well (though hoopefully - if you are physically & mentally/emotionally healthy - sex will always be a reason..if not the primary - still a significant factor...as it should be - IMO - why you ask? many reason - one is it is an avenue to express love/tenderness & intamacy - that is so important in a healthy relationship, two - because its good fun - and we always need that [otherwise we become old & cranky...often long before "our time" - we need the oultlet/release...many folks don't get/have enough fun in there lives...and are just too stressed with no relief etc] and three - because its fun [did I say that?]...LOL). Still - for those who are thinking to wait and such (for a meaningfull long term/perhaps lifetime relationship...) - well don't wait too long - you are only getting older - and your selection is being culled...of course there are many "rejects" (not meant as negatively as it sounds...LOL) that get back into the pool (or even married folks...though not really your best option for a variety of reasons...) - but really I can't say enough about not waiting forever (for instance I have some/many regrets that I/we didn't have our children younger...and in fact if it wasn't for my wife's urging we may have waited longer - if it were up to me at the time - I didn't want to give up the "unfettered" life etc (just like I too - like many of you - wasn't so keen on the idea of getting married/settling down...and er OK - maybe I have some regrets there - LOL - but mostly not...LOL) - but now I regret that I will be older (and maybe not even alive) at some points in my children's life that I really want to see/experience - though luckily I am still in good enough physical/mental shape etc to do fun stuff with them now...etc - and hopefully I can last/live long enough for (most all) the rest...(and when you get to be my age you do start thinking about mortality - you see others your age or near dropping off...and I myself have recently had a [very] near death [medical] experience...(so yeah - it does get you thinking...like I never did in my 20s...where I used to sometimes think about being 40 in horror! LOL ...but its not so bad - all what you make of it...[20s are much better though! LOL]) So to all of you yungins who think the single life is best and want it to go on forever etc - I would advise to at least be open to the idea that you might find someone that is/might be worth settling with etc (and its worth looking for this "someone" - and I really think that there are a great many fine prospects all around...) - (but, well yeah in the meantime- go on and have your fun - and do so with gusto! - by all means - you only live once [though I supose Sasun can give us an argument there...) - and you should be out enjoying your youth and having a good time - and one of the very most rewarding - if not just the absolutley most rewarding thing (are you listening Sip?) is a meaningful and fun filled (in every way!) relationship with the opposite sex...or several...sharing intimacies (physical, emotional...sharing your thoughts, having someone to help you through tuff times and enjoy to the fullest all the [hopefully great many] good times....etc etc)...its the best! Really....

No I think he has a point there - LOL...then again...perhaps she actually doesn't need to be able to move to "breed" (but certainly much less fun!)...so I guess its all a question of Alien genetics versus humans and weather there could be a hybird or such...

14 on the hip quiz...WTF - I am no GenXer or what-have-you...though i do like Noam Chomsky!

Welcome Artsax... Please tell us more about your criteria for good/better/best etc when it comes to Armenian websites... And Sip - did we ever resolve that issue -= Armeian gals & Black guys? Is it all just about the size of the list after all? LOL