THOTH

LOL - yeah - Sip just normally acts dumb - to impress the girls...LOL

Don't take it bad (heh - I can't talk - I can't spell or type...)...its just there was some humour in the mis-spell..we're just fooling around...

OK Domino - nice post BTW. I agree - there are different kinds of love...and I understand what you are saying (again explained very nicely) - the link to sex of the love of passion etc...but I have true (?) deep love (that is love, I think - by most definitons) for some of my very long time friends (male & female) ..even though there is nothing at all to do with sex or sexual desire/attraction etc - yet I know theese friends intimatly and care about them as if they were my family - and with one gal I've known for a long long time - her family has even said many times that I am like family to them/part of their family - and they say that they have "adopted" me! LOL ...of course there was a time they wanted me to marry their daughter...and - I probably would have! ...but she certainly didn't see me in that way...even though we did go out at one time - LOL ...oh well...we are still super friends...)...and I have another very dear male friend - whom I've known since before High School, he was my best man at my wedding...well he recently told some folks that I was more than a brother to him - and I feel similarly...and when we see each other we hug (LOL) and have great affection for one another...and yes - I would certainly say love...(and again - nothing at to do with sex)...so while I see the distictions you are making - I think there is a great deal of overlap...and while I don't buy this "true love" bit - I do believe in "real love" - outside of genetics and outside of sexual attraction.

Nice posts UKGIRL (and not just for agreeing eith me...LOL) And I've known many girls (mostly) who have been in similar situations as you describe...its a tough one...and its not always easy to step back and be rational...but in the end if your don't/can't you will end up hurt. I've done similar as her - where I helped an ex out (financially & otherwise) even after we split and even after we stopped loving each other...I certainly still cared about her (and her me to a degree...but mostly for the sex I think...)...and yeah she was using my generosity/love/concern etc...and I knew it and it hurt...but I was just a sap I guess...she was without a job, down on her luck etc - and I just didn't feel I could let her get kicked out on the street and such...so I paid her rent - for months...and took care of bills etc...even though I knew it was going nowhere (and I really didn't expect any return and certainly didn't want to restart the relationship...)...and eventually it just got too much and I cut her off (though she was starting to get on her feet a bit)...of course she never paid anything back...but I did end up keeping some of her stuff - that I had from when we were (briefly) living together...(which she wasn't happy with - LOL)...some nice antiques even...which I still have...

Armat - I understand and agree with this post. Bottom line though...we have to work at things if we want them bad enough...and sometimes we have to adjust our expectations...learn to cherish other aspects etc...even if we miss some of that exicetement - that perhaps can be approximated/recreated for times...but basically may never occur again in quite the same way... Nice post.

I agree with your conclusion. But I do not agree that "love" or relationships neceissarily ask for anything in return besides love back...(if even that...though it is dificult to love when it is not returned...but not impossible)

Sasun - I don't think love requires jealousy (and certainly not hatred...). And some of what you are saying is - in this age - perhaps a little old think (sure perhaps many do adhere to it...and this is much of our problem in this age...we haven't properly adapted...). Some couples can survive/prosper without such restictions and can be comfortable with such - and it fact some outside "play" can be tolerated, encouraged even...if one partner is interested in the happiness of the other (or mutual)...and when there is both love and confidence. This situation can in fact be a boon - and strengthen (demonstrate even) love and commitment (selfishlessness) - and not be derisive. Don't know if this makes sense...and it ccertainly requires two people who are perhaps not the norm in todays society etc (more enlightened then the average bear - as it were...) - but I think if there were more of this there could actually be less divorce/cheating and problems of this sort. Sometimes I think people need to just ease up a bit...(in so many ways...) And what is your obsession with hatred? I hardly ever experience that emotion...and certainly not in regards to my wife...frustration sometimes...LOL...and perhaps anger at times...but hatred? no. I really don't think that there is a place in love for hatred...

Well - I understand how the US is percieved by many...but as for being the biggest threat...well not yet at any rate...and not really - even if the rhetoric might suggest... As for secure nuclear plants...well I don't agree. Most plants are both very secure and very safe. Sure there are some issues - and to me the concern is more with waste disposal and fuel/waste transport...but by and large I do think that we can consder the plants pretty (very) safe and secure....(I am all for alternative fuels BTW...)...but even with these concerns (nuclear waste & safety etc)...we are doing far far worse burning fossile fuels (what can we be thinking here - we are poisining ourselves & quickly). Nuclear safety is a serious concern - but what are our alternatives? And are you aware of the percentage of electric generation in Europe (France in particular) that is from nuclear? Again - what are the (short term ) alternatives?

Sasun - I dopn't know why it has to be this way at all...not part of my relationship with my wife (that I can fathom)...though I do understand what you are saying...and certainly we do fight on occasion (and she gets upset at me [for whatever reason...though ussually not for something like your example...] not infrequently! - LOL). There is one instance that I can think of that reminds me of your example though. Once when we were at Wakkiki Beach in hawaii - I was out swiming while she was laying on the beach...well on a lark ( and because I like to do this sort of thing) I decided to swim the entire length of Wakkiki - and did - well I dind't think to tell her I was going for a long swim - out of site etc - she was napping I think...well I was gone for perhaps an hour or more...and when she awoke I was nowhere to be seen...she paniked - thoguht I had drowned and had lifeguards/rescue/police etc all searching for me...LOL - well when I came walking back up the beach she was livid! (understatement)...though of course was relieved that I was alive...LOL (oops...duh...sorry...etc)

Why is that necesarily? (and I cannot agree)... I mean my wife is my family...is the dearest person for me - no different really then my parents/siblings etc..even in many ways closer...as we have been together years and do nearly everything together, share everything, raise our kids etc...I'm not sure I could imagie being seperated from her (in my life)...I would be devestated...so I can't understand why my love for her would be any less then love for any other family member - blood relative or otherwise (and what of adopted children etc)...I really don't think love is necessarily so bound by a genetic bond or what have you...I certainly belive that it is within us to love outside of this - even if all may not be so capable of it (for whatever reason)

Well thats right then...what you said is correct...and I guess thats OK - its who you are...or who you are now...but that could change...proper guy, proper circumstances, different point in your life etc...(but maybe not...some can never move past this stage...and they probably shouldn't get married...and certainly not have kids)...though I should also add that I think its is important to be selfish too - at least to a degree...and not to totally subjugate oneself to the will (etc0 of others/live just for others - that sort of thing (like many Amenian mother's do...for instance my own...LOL) And I did say to not be "just" selfish...(for a relationship to work....)

LOL Stormy - just where do you come up with these? Good one...

Domino - while i might agree that there is not something really that is "true love" in the sense (outside of family etc)...I do believe that the definition that UKGIRL puts forth is a valid one for something at least approximating it - and I think that this type of love can stand the test of time (will it always - maybe not)...but in some/many cases it certainly does...(your too pessimistic I think...and I think you may need to experience such [or at least to have observed such in action] to really be able to fully comment)...its a wonderful thing really...

True - I don't at all disregard that he has a pretty good team and has done a fine job manageing it thus far...not bad at all for a rookie (and an Aussie to boot)! I used to watch Australian rules football on occasion a while back - and really enjoyed the game...I love the two thumbs up (at the waist) thingy the refs do (too cute! LOL)...but really I did enjoy watching the games...(nothing beats the NFL though -IMO)...Accel - have you ever even seen an NFL game?

Oh and Happy Birthday BTW...in advance! And Archer...don't worry - I mean what do I care...no hard feelings...

Yeah I'd say something...LOL...but I think I've said enough (along these lines...in jest...)...besides I said I liked Domino's polls (and I did say poll...not pole...don't want to freak him out any more than he probably is...cus I'm just fooling anyway...not at all serious I hope he/everyone realizes...LOL)

Good points UKGIRL. Many folks really don't think it out - but make decisions for the moment...and later find that perhaps they made the wrong one (and its really a shame when those folks have kids...that they probably should never have had)...but it ain't all bad...some people do make it work (and all [succesful] relationships require some give and take and sometime subjugation of personal interests/concerns for the good of the union etc) - and not everyone has what it takes for this (and it often isn't easy...though sometimes its the easiest thing in the world..if one's priorites are in order and they aren't just selfish)

woah woah woah...LOL Boy when are they going to cast you in bronze girl?...such an image of perfection...LOL

Yeah - well I have more toal piits then you (after a slow start)...all I need now is some more wins (which will come)...and for you and RX etc to lose of course...(and we need to get this warhawk to manage his team...how is he going to beat you if he is fielding players who are not on the field?)

Yeah - I have a bunch of Bretonians...puffy hat guys and such (and some guys with cannons etc)...LOL...but I have a smattering of all sorts...I don't play warhammer - just use the minatures in other stuff...I've got my own moded minature rules I use (simplified for the kids mainly...)...fun stuff...and I really do enjoy painting them...I'm not nearly to the level of the fanatics...but I do OK...

LOL - well for me - of late - my version of this is my wife and I are out (in this case at a party - over 2 hours from home...at a good friends...and I had brought and opened an entire case worth of [fine] wine)...well after we were there about 1 hour - the babysitter calls - my youngest kid has a fever...well give him Motrin or tylenol or something and call us back in an hour (I say)...but Nooo - my wife insists we must go home and take care or "our child" etc...needless to say he had taken the medicine and was perfectly fine when we got home...

Yes A4h - good points.. I once dated a gal who had had an abortion before i dated her (perhaps a few years before - or several)...well - for whatever reason - damage - like you said - she could not physically have children anymore...and believe me - if she could have - we would have - not out of desire to have kids (then/with her) - but because we never used any birth control (and I is an extremely fertile puppy...LOL) I very much agree on the aborrance of the Chinese (selective, and otherwise) practice (that is also a racial policy in a sense - as it disproportionatly affects the many indiginous peoples - such a s the Uighurs - who relay on larger families to sustain their (non-collectivized) agricultural way of life. While the Chinese program has certainly yielded good population control results (and much of the world sorely needs this...) - I would fully ageree that forced abortions are absolutly the wrong way to go. I am really greatly opposed to anything that is imposed upon individuals by the state (such as this) - just in general...and something as personal as this even more so...

LOL - so true...(actualy I like Domino's polls)...

Sasun - a fetus is in no way a child. Certainly with modrn technology the point at which a fetus is viable could perhaps be even earlier then now...but I still do not at all see the fetus as a child...and this relationship that she is trying to make - that abortion has anything to do with actual child rearing - realtionship between parent and chidrn - is completely spurious - IMO. Look - I'm not at all a fan of abortion - but sometiems I believe it is necessary...and other times I think it becomes an option - perhaps a perferrable option - not that there might also not be others. Bottom line though is that I think many make a much bigger deal out of this issue then it deserves - considering the real problems we have in this world - regarding the state of children and otherwise...

Sasun - sorry I'm not buying it. I really don't think that these views have much to do with the reality of the situation...sorrry I just don't...