THOTH

quote:Originally posted by damien:LAND RIGHTS FOR BLACK GAY WHALES!!! LOL - just about pulls all the recent threads together - eh? So Damien - besides being (very seemingly) gay and (I assume) Armenian (black? ...one never knows...) - could you tell us any more about yourself? Do you live in an Armenian community (in OZ....next door to Accelerated perhaps?) or such - and is the "gay thing" your only issue - or are you involved in the Armenian community at all - artistically/culturally/politically etc...just curious (go ahead and tell me to mind my own business if you wish...)

quote:Originally posted by TigrannesIII: I know a great many African Americans and I can't think of any that fit your description. Sure - perhaps in some movie - or like I said in some real poor part of town (which is why I had to assume thats where you hang out - if this is your only exposure). Just for the record (speaking of teaching, Accelerated Juggernaut) - I once had a roomate (in college) who was card caryying (literally) KKK - in fact he headed up his own racist organization at the time. Within a year after living with me he was campaigning for Jesse Jackson and had joined the rainbow coalition (way too far for me even - as I don't support preachers for public office...LOL) - anyway - how, you say could such a transformation be possibel? Well I introduced him to some of my (Black) friends - and he was essentially forced to relate to them as humans (and not carachteratures). With more exposere - and with actually talking to people and seeing how and why they think and act etc as they do - he gained an appreciation - that perhaps different wasn't so bad - and perhaps they weren't even so different - etc - and he also began to see some things from their perspectives. (I imagine he was perhaps your age - so maybe there is still hope...though he wasn't any kind of stubbron/know it all Armenian like us....LOL). Oh and Azat - yes, there was a pretty girl involved...LOL - all true...

quote:Originally posted by aurguplu:the aim of your side is clear as far as i can see. YOU WANT LAND, and the genocide is a side issue FOR YOU. the turkish hardliners that i had met kept reiterating this line and i kept refusing it. when i had joined this forum i was hoping to see it proven wrong. instead i see myself proven wrong. what a waste of time it has been. Please - get real. If you truly believe this then you understand nothing. I and most Armenians care nothing/think nothing about this or any land issue - Our hearts bleed for our people and what was done to them. This statement of yours is quite insensitive IMO - and combined with your constant referencing to this (non-issue) of land...and your seeming attempts to rationalize the genocide (Armenian gangs etc) leads me to wonder if it has been a waste of time with you - and I can only conclude aparently. I truly hope that this is not so - but it is clear that you have misundersttod MJs points entirely. And believe me - if I coveted your lands I would not be talking to you begging for them and such - I would be finding a way to take them. And if us Armenians really felt this way now - as a Turk I would be afraid.

quote:Originally posted by Sip:I think THOTH pulled it off 62-60 <img border="0" alt="[wobble]" title="" src="smilies/wobble.gif" /> Sorry - better luck next time. Keeping with the theme of this thread I must say that I think I must have won because my team was blacker then yours (LOL - just a poor joke - nothing more...) quote:Originally posted by Sip:I am happy that at least at an intellectual level you do not discriminate between races. However, at any point, if you draw distinctions between two people based on race, that makes you a racist! I'm not sure that this is technically correct - but I don't have Websters in fron to me right now... quote:Originally posted by Sip:Note that I for example believe blacks are far superior to whites in sports such as basketball and running. Perhaps - in practice (but why?)...though there are exceptions and I question if this is necessarily totally genetic - versus some cultural reason (I mean are Brazilians just natural soccer players by birthright?). And many "whites" run can run faster (or further - whatever) then "blacks" - (we will get to my critique of these categorizations in just a bit...and when you say superior - in what way do you mean? Can you really name a black/African American BBall player who could pass as well as Larry Bird? I also think the rise of European stars in the NBA (and in world competition) is a testement to the cultural factors that play a great part in sucess in this type of a sport. And are Turks better soccer players then Armenians (well, perhaps...but there are more of them playing...well look at all the hoops played in US inner cities - ourtsidfe and in the gyms - who is playing mnore BBall? Just like soccer - can you really tell me the Americans just suck at soccer (genetically)? etc I've been told many times that I am a good basketball player - for a white guy...my response is sometimes - "who says I'm white"...LOL (Its true - I am a good basketbal player...not a great one mind you...but pretty damn good/not too shaby...for a non-ghetto dude! LOL) quote:Originally posted by Sip:That makes me a racist by this definition: 1) Racist: The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. It's the second definition that I do not want to be a part of: 2) Racist: Discrimination or prejudice based on race. Realizing and making distinctions between races is NOT wrong. The races ARE very different. However, I believe, discriminating, segragating, etc, all in the hopes of keeping the "blood-line" pure is bull crap and totally wrong. OK - let me say this right here and now - I believe that there is as much variation among individuals within each of the supposed racial classifications as variances to those without. (I mean besides Mugsy Boges do you know of any other Pygmy NBA stars? LOL) - get my point. I challrnge nayone to draw lines between races with distinction because exceptions (and not just ones and twos can and will be found). Our common racial distinctions are focused on characteristics based upon look (primarily skin color...but ale eyelis shape, hair type and other factors) - but this ignores both significant differences among populations who share these outward characteristcs as well as similiarities in seemingly diverse groups. SO we use these racial terms for convienience purposes (and because they correspond roughly to peoples from certain geographic areas who admittedly share certain characteristics) - but these are neither universal nor comprehensive. And the bottom line is that we are all human and we are all individuals - and this matters more then any racial categorization. And I can't help it that Tigrannes lives in a poor neighborhood where people can't afford deoderant or such - he really ought to get out into the world more. I can introduce him to many blackpeople - who if they were of similar self-agrandized aloofnees as Tigrannes would turn their noses up at him for his lowely social status, dress, poor sense of style, lack of proper education and any number of other factors where he would fall beneath them on certain social or otherwise pecking orders - etc (though I find all of this silly and meaningless). People are different from each other - based on where they live/grew up, ethnic influences (food, dress, predominant culture etc), personal preferences, genetics - etc etc - isn't it wonderful? Is the correct ideal that we are all the same - I certainly don't think so....

For the record I think that Armenian dances are beautiful. In fact I recently (last weekend) went to a performance given by an Armenian youth dance group from Yerevan that showcased some wondeful group as well as individual dances. And many years ago I saw an Armenian troup from Canada perform where the lead dancers pounded out an intense rythym on the wooden stage floor using the knuckles of their feet (anyone familiar with thei dance?) - it was so awesome it left me in tears...and it definatly could not be categorized as "gay" (not that it really matters per se...)

Are you claiming that being racist is a fundemental factor in being (an) Armenian? Well I disagree. In fact I disagree quite a bit concerning what you consider to be requirements for being Armenian. (In fact I find your views on this to be rather twisted). And I certainly do not believe you have the monopoloy on such. Oh - and most sorry about your mom - I'm sure she is a wonderful (non-Armenian) lady - the SOB comment is directed at racists in general...and not all get their distasteful attitudes from their mothers...and considering that she is not Armenian (and you are implyig that racisim is an Armenian trait) - I wouldn't presume that your rather primative attutudes originate from her.. [ September 25, 2002, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

Funny Tigrannes - you racist SOB - it seems I recently heard some similar things said about Armenians by (nasty close minded) WASPy types. Consider: Rascist WASP: most Armenian guys i know: 1)have something wrong with their face and smell bad 2)cheerful? most are grumpy and ready to start soemthing with you 3)open-minded? All their friends are Armenians! ...admittedly most of my good friends are white, but I have Asian, Hispanic, White, Russian, Arabic, and even black friends...well sort of, I say Hi to them if they catch my eye when I'm trying to look away - and I would never think of inviting them over the house... 4)Create a warm atmosphere? Maybe from drinking Raki )) But a warm atmosphere??? They treat women like $h!t!!!! 5)Well built- well, the athletic ones generally are - like boxers, wrestlers and soccer players, but the rest of them are like...nerdy chess players & stuff 6)Good at dancing- are you kidding - only those really gay looking line & circle dances...did you know that the guys hold hands? etc You reap what you sow...

quote:Originally posted by Accelerated:Guys, you sound ashamed of your LIST dimentions.... LOL - while my "list" may be no "War & Peace" in terms of total word count (and not everyone can be a circus freak or such...) - the ladies have never made any complaint...and "ashamed"? really now? ...(of course with you we're likely to only hear self-critiscim...) All joking apart I think you have missed my serious points - this issue: Supposed black "womb drain" of the Armenian community is likely a fabricated (insignificant) issue...and while certain (Armenian?) gals may go for black guys - for whatever/various reasons...well 1) thats OK for those who want that (or for those who don't discriminate or perhaps are tired of the insularness of the Armenian "scene" & guys etc) and 2) You should worry more about how you treat/respect ladies and carry yourself (& maybe a few less twinkies...) and your love life will take care of itself...(mate)

Really - I'm surprised (but I'll certainly take it!). Actually neither of us much deserved to win that one...I really must do something about my (poor) QB situation. (and - if I would do such a thing - I would pray for Marshall's good health - LOL!) I do think that both of us still have pretty strong teams...so far I've been lucky on my match-ups - but I can't expect that to hold out...no worrries - i think my boys will perform...so until next time! (good luck with the rest of your contests! Armo Power!

Seaphan - not sure what happened - if they don't clear it up contact them for resolution. It seemed that we tied...but the live scoring is not official - and is often off a few points. What sucks is that they seem to have crossed some of this last weeks owners with next weeks teams/players etc and I cannot seem to find the official "box score" of our game...but I'm sure they will figure it out. heh - I like the win - but if I were in your shoes I would be pissed - and I don't want that - we are doing this to have fun (too bad more Armo's didn't sign up...)

quote:Originally posted by Sip: quote:Originally posted by THOTH:...use your charm, wit and personality (etc) the rest will follow Unfortunately, they don't sell those online. However, every day, I get at least 3 or 4 junk emails telling me how I could increase the size of my list by at least 2 or 3 inches in less than a month. Damnit ... I said it again.Well I'm not discounting that there might be advanteges to a lengthly list - or one that has some breadth - complete in its coverage as it were...and while this certainly has some appeal to (many of) the ladies (and makes guys feel good as well - just in possesing such a list...etc) I really think it is overblown (or would be, er, if, eh...well you know what I mean...). One of my past girlfriends told me about these two guys she had dated (one black, one white) who apparently had rather impressive lists (to say the least)...well neither wasn't really so expert on how to apply their list to practical applications (outside of the most strightforward/obvious type...and well - that gets boring after the intial excitement wears off)...and these guys both tended to rely just on their list and ignore other areas...and they expected that she would be grateful just to have access to their lists and thus they took no great effort to develop other worthwhile qualities/skills - etc. Still - she did say it was tough to break away - as there were certain advantages to ready access to such a list - from her perspective...but ultimatly it was just a passing thing and not enough in and of itself to keep her interest...etc (and my list proved quite a bit more adaptable...etc - and in case you are wondering it was I who eventually broke off the relationship...[and it was tough for me - she was the best - at making lists very happy etc) Oh and I do realize I mistated my case a bit earlier (where I said I was always better - etc) - there was one (black) guy whom a former girlfriend (the same actually) of mine had been with (though not regularly dated per se) whom she said was the most skilled of all (and believe me she was quite experienced to know)...and his list was of no special dimension per se (at least that wasn't the focus of her very appreciative commentary)...trouble was he about 40-50 and married (with mutiple kids from lots of gals apparently...) and she was perhaps 22-23 at the time...(and I was but young and inexperienced as well...then...but that has changed [both for the better and for the worse - getting old sucks!])

MJ - I think you last two sets of comments are right on the mark. And I agree with what you are saying concerning Ali's ideas about supposed land claims - strikes me as an excuse....and even worse is this (somewhat distorted IMO) tie-in of Nogorno-Karabagh. Again - its another convinient roadblock...and your observation concerning lack of remorse...this is key. I cannot suppose to read Ali's mind - but I do still think he is fundementally a good person with a corageous stance (considering his circumstance) - I also see that he has certain blocks that - as you suggest - may require some additional maturity/insight/empathy/whatever to overcome...

Seaphan - I have to think you just much watch too much ****o (and I can't claim innocence myself there - some of its pretty awesome really...)...and I got to admit - some of them boys (dogfart...familiar?)...well they could hit baseballs with that kind of wood...but - you must remember: these guys are professionals! (LOL) - and while we all might wish for such (though I can imagine some practical/everyday problems...bad enough as it is sometimes)...you've just got to understand that these guys are not the norm. (in fact I imagine they are practially Guiness book material). So don't worry yourself. If you know how to satisfy a woman - and take care of her otherwise - there should be no problem...use your charm, wit and personality (etc) the rest will follow (just make it special)...and if you are dedicated enough (and not some uncompromising-difficult to be around type) you shouldn't have to worry about anything...

Yes indeed. Actually I feel lucky - with Faulk going down - however I was expecting more from Keyshaun.... If anything you may get more points out of the Ram's D - since some of the TB scoring was by their D and not the offense. Actually - right before the end of the game it had Rams D with 10 points and gave them back a point (that they had previously had)...do you realize as well that that lest TB score (interception) gave you an EP to tie me as well....argh..(at least I won in my other two leagues...even with Faulk getting hurt...hope/don't think it is too serious...

Forgive me if I am ignorant on this issue - but is this phenomenon - The "womb drain" of Armenian girls to (Black? How about Mexican?) guys really a phenemon such that there is any kind of real impact in/on the community? Are there now not enough (nice) Armenian girls to go around or something? What exactly is the problem? Forgive me (for my ignorance) but it seems to me that this supposed critical issue may just be a bit overblown. So we see that some Armenian girls are attracted to black guys (and good for them if they get what they want out of the relationship)....and some potential reasons for this have been surfaced...cultural, physical etc - for whatever its worth) - OK - so what? I don't get it. Is it that those who consider this a problem somehow consider that people of African descent are somehow different (beneath) other folks? This is my guess as to the crux of the matter (whether it is admitted to or not). And if it is such a problem (Armenian gals [in significant numbers] deserting Armenian guys in favor of [seemingly more fun] black guys) how is complaining about it going to do any good? If Armenian guys are feeling overlooked by the gals I suggest that the Armenians guys may just need to try harder (to treat the gals as they deserve - ie be attentive to and aware of their interests and be pleasing to them etc) and not expect to have everything served up to them - just because...And I can't accept that most or any significant numbers of Armenian gals are going to be attracted to black guys soley on the basis of certain physical attributes. While I am sure this has a certain appeal - and may be the driver for some - there is much more to relationships, courting/dating and choosing a partner (even short term) then just this/these factor(s). In my time (long ago now) I have dated some gals who had previously dated black guys (and there was mixed reporting on this size issue - so its certainly not universal - but in some instances was a positive factor for the gals...). However, in each case my partners expressed that I was a better companion (its all about fun and being attentive and doing interesting things!) and a better lover (so there!)...so Armenian guys - you have nothing to feel inadequate about - its more about effort (and perhaps aquired skills! LOL) - though effort and empathy is the key IMO...So stop complaining and get out there!

quote:Originally posted by Harut: quote:Originally posted by damien:I just always knew that I liked boys more than girls. just one question out of curiousity. do you like manly men/boys or sisi men/boys?Just curious - why do you ask? (LOL) (are you trying to let Damien know that you are available...?) And if you asked me a similar question - "blonds or brunettes?" I'd have to say "both" (you woulnd't be a blond would you be Harut - eh? LOL)

quote:Originally posted by Sip:

Oh and Seaphan - bth our teams seriously underperformed this week - I'm expecting much better for the future (for both)...and what did you think of my move picking up Pete at the last minute - LOL - I like getting opposing QB match-ups...I'll likely dump him this week - but who knows - got to check the matchups...and Kordell probably isn't much worth picking up again (but I suppose I will out of loyalty...if I can't find anyone better of course...and if someone else doesn't pick him up..though I can hardly imagine it...)

Yeah Seaph - I'm up by a few and have Faulk going to your Dillon & Rams "D" - if I recall correctly - I'll take those odds...though you never know....should/could be pretty close - so I'm not counting a "W" just yet. I'm in 2 other leagues and winning in both games going into tonight and Monday night - but all promiss to be nailbiters. In one I'm done but he has Alstott - I'm up by 15 (and feel pretty good) In the other again I have Faulk plus Keyshaun...but he has Rams D, Gramatica and someone else (Tight end?) forgot...and I'm up quite a few - but don't remember how much...again should be OK - but you never know...you worry me the most... Its funny - but I have Eddie George in both other leagues and benched him for last minute replacements...in each case if I had gone with Eddie I'd be a lock (sucks...but how could I play him? He didn't sound like he'd be on the field at all - and I checked even at the 11th hour...so it goes... OH & good show Tigrans! Armenian Power! ,,,no go on that trade of Staly for Dunn however...though again if you wish to sweeten the pot I might consider...

Damien - indeed a nice post. In the end what does it matter. Be it a choice or genetics I just don't think it much matters. (though genetic determination seems much to strong...there are certainly societal and environmental factors - regardless). The real issue is that mature intelligent people respect the choices that others make and don't feel the need that everyone must be exactly like them - otherwise we are no different then Taliban - IMO....

quote:Originally posted by Sip: quote:Originally posted by Sip:

quote:Originally posted by Vahe G.:Listen up thoth you watch yourself and dont get too ahead of yourself. Im not saying anymore What are you saying Vahe G? Besides being a mental neandertal you fashion yourself as some king of physical one as well? Are you telling me that you object to me stating my opinions - that you wish to silence me? And I've been hearing complaints that it is us progressive types that somehow are curtailing mental midgets like you from saying your piece. So here you have it folks - Vahe G. has stated he will say no more (probably a good isea - because anything he says will only get him in deeper...) - and for the record I have never called for his silence (even though I beleive he has just threatened me - no?)

quote:Originally posted by MJ:Thoth, I don't particularly disagree with you. However, my optimism has somewhat faded away since the start of these discussions in mid 2000 in the Hye Forum. I have become especially pessimistic and disinterested after the 9/11 , which has made any expectations of reformation of the Turkish society, that I might had, disappear. So far as the existing and potential Middle-Eastern terrorism on individual and state levels are going to be paramount concerns for the Western [Civilization] Countries, Turkey is going to be needed on the capacity of the experienced political prostitute, which is going to feed its arrogance further. Therefore, I think all the attempts on a "large-scale" to be fruitless. Agree. It seems that Turkey has continued to find itself in this sort of situation since its founding by Ataturk. Its allowed them to escape responsibility - and buid a fine military...but it seems all other benefits of their unique geostrategic situation and the favor found by such have been wasted. Again - just the Armenians lose out...(as in WWI) quote:Originally posted by MJ:All this does not preclude however to have normal relationship on a personal level, and I hope you are convinced that I am not a perpetuator of hatred nor I like the hateful people from any of the sides. However would I have gotten that idea? You sir have a most reasoned/balanced view on this/these issue(s). I wish that there was some way to convey it to other Armenians who are in need of your wisdom. All I can say is do not give up hope (on educating the few who may be pottentially receptive) - keep posting here (for al its worth) - challenge us. And perhaps all we have left at this point is to attampt to establish and maintina some personal level contact between peoples and hope that this perhaps can spread and that this may lead to some greater understanding/appreciation etc. We will call it Shish Kebab diplomacy or such....LOL quote:Originally posted by MJ:I just think that at this juncture in history, to think that we can accomplish any meaningful progress with Turkey is naïve, though I do still see a possibility of declaration of the recognition of the Armenian Genocide by Turkey. But it would be such a lukewarm recognition that would even insult my intelligence, per se. sigh - understood - such a shame. We all hope for progress toward our dreams/ideals in our lifetimes...but sometimes it just isn't meant to be - the powers conspire against us...and I don't even see this lukewarm acceptance - not anytime soon...though Ali will have us believe otherwise... quote:Originally posted by MJ:One important, in my view, think that I would like to add here is that unfortunately our Armenian brethren don’t understand how they have damaged the cause of the meaningfulness of the recognition of the Genocide [by anyone] by disgustingly overplaying that “hand.” Yes - embarrasing sometime..."and the village of rockpile - population 3 - has just recognized the Armenian Genocide - Yurkey how can you face the pressure of this international condemnation!" etc etc . Yes - as well as the shrill cries that Turks are demon barbarians etc - sure what was done to our people was such - just as what the Japanese have done to the Chinese, Koreans and others, the germans to the Jews & others, the Russians & Chinese to their own - etc etc - does that make all people of this ethnicity/nationality savages? Here we often overstep reasonableness t hurt our chances not only with everyone else - but with the Turks as well (understandably so). I do think that the Turks are important and that we must (do what we can to) sway them (as individuals and as a people). But we must also cahnge some of our own attitudes and do very much more to understand the Turks and why they hold the views that they do. IMO. [ September 21, 2002, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

quote:Originally posted by koko:The prejudice of the gay and lesbian community is a big problem. Wich can only ONLY be solved through international cooperation. Are you refering to gay's & lesbian's being prejudiced against the rest of us? (sorry - I realize that English may not be your first language...and actually you write quite well...but the way this is stated it is unclear). My 2 cents - what difference does it make to the rest of us - or to society etc if some choose to love their own sex? Why is it OK for children of the same sex to play together - but not adults? I don't see any difference - nor any reason for such a big fuss.

quote:Originally posted by Vahe G.:This is very true . You know why they dont post. Theres an old saying in Armenian, "If you debate with an idiot you become an idiot yourself". Well there is no debate - I'm just teaching...(children need that you know) LOL