THOTH

Domino - yea Canadian - thought so - your flag is red isn't it? hmmm, let me make a note of that...LOL

Well yes you can say that - but would you really want to be told who you must marry? I sure wouldn't have imagining who my folks might of thought might have been a good girl for me! LOL But in a sense ou are correct and love can develop from an arranged marriage as well. (and coversly people fall "out" of love and/or change and their expectations/desires cahnge etc - so we see many marraiges don't work out for a variety of reasons) However arranged marraige is a solution made for a self-imposed problem. IMO there should be no need for relatives and such to decide something that affects the individuals entire rest of their life - in a most major sort of way... [ November 26, 2002, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

Qristine - I repeat my question: Why would a "pure" Armenian ever bother to learn English? This is essentially the same issue as Sip raises. First there is no such thing as "pure" - and your predecessors very likely adopted many "ways" of the cultures/nations where they lived. So what it measn to be Armenian is not just one thing. I constantly come accross this - different traditions/food etc from Armenians from different places. Perhaps it is your grammer theat needs improving. I think you are perhaps not being clear about what you mean is "pure" Armenian. Maybe you should try again.

Well Varduhi - do you wish for an arranged marraige for yourself or would you rather marry someone whom you love? The experiences in my family of arranged marriages have generally not been good ones (far from it). My Grandmother fled her home/family/country at the age of 16 to avoid an arranged marriage to a boy whom she did not love (they had been betrothed since the age of 2). She left an almost assured life of oppulence to flee to nations unknown, with a very uncertain future, and to eventually marry her love - a steel worker - (originally from a poor village) and raise 6 children in near poverty. Thus is love stronger then tradition. One of her daughters agreed to an arranged marriage. Her husband physically and mentally abused her throught their entire marriage - eventually driving my happy go lucky once fun Aunt into a nervous wreck and then into a mental institution. She often wanted to leave him - once actually running away - but always returned in the end out of a sene of duty and tradition. So please - this issue of arranged mariages - I understand why people desire/require them - becuse they wish the women to never have the oppurtunity to go out and meet people and make choices on their own. This strikes me as a form of slavery. If I have missed something please by all means make the case. [ November 26, 2002, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

Oh my dear harut - truth is often much stranger then fiction...

Good points Qristine - well said.

Well TB - doing what I can to fit in with the star bellied sneetches...

I can't vouch with certainty for the methods of the pizza monitoring department but I can say that their manning has increased tenfold over the past year...

Qristine - You have learned English to function in an English speaking world/nation. If you wished to confine yourself to activities only with Armenians - and remain a "pure" Armenian - then I would think that there would be no need to learn English. But then I do not think I understand what your definition of a "pure" Armenian is...

TB - I was refering strictly to your recent [peace-maker role. however I am at a loss as to what I have said to Boghos that has made you so upset at me. I was the one being attacked. At worst I may have indicated that I would adopt similar behavior...but have I?

No Hovsep you have it all wrong. If you do not order your proper quota of pizza you will fall under suspicion. It is then when the moniotoring will begin. So its pizza once a wek for you or you are not a true American!

Question for Qristine: Why would a "pure" Armenian ever bother to learn English?

TB - you have done well - (lets see how long it lasts). To Rubo - I made some comments recently (while trying to reason with MJ) that I think you may have attributed to yourself. None of those comments was meant to directly pertain to you. Sorry if you had that impression. This isn't saying that I agree with you on everything either - I don't. MJ never really elaborated on his disagreements with your approach/ideas - but I imagine that if he did I would agree with much he is likely to say. By no means do I not want you to post here however and I welcome your input.

There is quite a lot of variety in Cappadocia. On one hand you have the traditional fairy tale Tufa spires (think Bryce Canyon Utah) where communal cave dwelings and beautiful churches carved into the rock were built. In other places there are stream valleys lined with sheer cliffs where other types of cave and surface dwellings were built (very similar to the Anazazi Indian dwellings in the Americah Southwest. And then there are the remains of once large underground cities - some miles accross and up to 8 (known) stories deep - with the ability to (temporarily...for months perhaps) house (tens of)thousands. All of these places are truly impressive (very worthwhile to visit) - and all of them pre-date Christianity by thousands of years. Even the Christian era lasted from prior to 300 AD/CE to 1922. And yes,from what I know, I think that these people were basically Greeks. Their art (Icons) certainly strongly resemble the Byzantine.

MJ - how wrong you are. Just goes to show you that it is not wise to read your pre-concieved biases into everything that you read.

Casting stones again Gams?

vava& harut - agreed & agreed ...

I never claimed tha we were all centrists per se. There are also some forum members who could take the test and likely shift our averages up and to the right a bit. But yes I still think that there is a bias to the test. And like anything we shouldn't place too much faith in the results.,,though I think it was fun and not so far off the mark in general.

Didn't know whether to post this in religion or humour...but I think it says something concerning taking our religion too seriously... Dateline: Arkansas City, Arkansas - 11/20/2002 (THIS WOULD BE IN A CATEGORY WAY BEYOND 'RIPLEY'S BELIEVE IT OR NOT! SEE IF YOU AGREE...RON) ASSOCIATED PRESS A Little Rock woman was killed yesterday after leaping through her moving car's sun roof during an incident best described as "a mistaken rapture" by dozens of eye witnesses. Thirteen other people were injured after a twenty-car pile up resulted from people trying to avoid hitting the woman who was apparently convinced that the rapture was occurring when she saw twelve people floating up into the air, and then passed a man on the side of the road who she claimed was Jesus. "She started screaming "He's back, He's back" and climbed right out of the sunroof and jumped off the roof of the car," said Everet Williams, husband of 28-year-old Georgann Williams who was pronounced dead at the scene. "I was slowing down but she wouldn't wait till I stopped," Williams said. She thought the rapture was happening and was convinced that Jesus was gonna lift her up into the sky," he went on to say. "This is the strangest thing I've seen since I've been on the force," said Paul Madison, first trooper on the scene. Madison questioned the man who looked like Jesus and discovered that he was dressed up as Jesus and was on his way to a toga costume party when the tarp covering the bed of his pickup truck came loose and released twelve blow up sex dolls filled with helium which floated up into the air. Ernie Jenkins, 32, of Fort Smith, who's been told by several of his friends that he looks like Jesus, pulled over and lifted his arms into the air in frustration, and said "Come back here," just as the Williams' car passed him, and Mrs. Williams was sure that it was Jesus lifting people up into the sky as they passed by him, according to her husband, who says his wife loved Jesus more than anything else. When asked for comments about the twelve sex dolls, Jenkins replied "This is all just too weird for me. I never expected anything like this to happen."

quote:Originally posted by Sip:...I was much more touched by the message it's trying to send. Who was really the bad guy in that movie? There is no clear cut answer since EVERYONE made the correct decision, yet somehow everyone lost (except the . If you think this then I think you miss the main point of the movie. The actions of jessup, Kendrick & those who murdered Santiago ( who had a medial conditon etc) - were wrong (very wrong) - pure & simple...etc And/but I do agree - great movie. I absolutly don't like the idea of doctoring any movie for any reason unless the director and such are parto fit...even then. If the movie is considerd "inapropriate" then its up to the parents to decise not to watch or tro cut away etc as needed. I am a parent - I undrstand these concerns - but....other issues as well. One issue is this idea that grandparents & even in some case children) cannot be exposed to certain language or certain sexual activities. Sex is a good thing - am i wrong here? Sure kids may not understand or such - and you curt away etc. But grandparents? The language issue. I very rarely use such language myself (unless I hammer my thumb or such) - and I personaaly don't like it. But this is the real world people (or at least the hollywood version). Anyway - I object to censorship if it means altering the artistic product. Watch somethinfg else or be the censor yourself for you children (or yourself)... Otherwise the time method with naughtier stuff 7 what not on later makes sense to me...and they do this somewhat in the US. But the puratinsim in many peoples attitudes i actually find more disturbing then the language or sex & such (I like the sex part [for] myself...LOL)....

Nairi - I (may) wish many things baby! - but they are not precluded on you desiring your same sex! (but I wouldn't necisarily turn down an invitation (to watch)!) LOL - Besides I am very happily married (and generally well satisfied)...such a traditionalist I am...

LOL - actually I have no '88's but I have a few wonderful '86's & '89's. I have a very nice Calon Segur '89 slated for thanksgiving dinner. I'd invite you to join us sometime but you really must behave. The (true) Grandmaster has spoken.

I know that this is a difficult question and a controversial issue for most here. Let me say that I am an assimilated 1/2 Armenians (just like Tigrannes BTW - LOL). My mother who is full blood had rejected the Armenian community (long story) pror to my even being born. Though she speaks fluent Armenian and is a wonderful example for all Armenian wives and mothers - she rejects her Armenianism (though is a superb cook of Armenian food! - though growing up she would alwas tell me when I would ask that it was a family recipe and had nothing to do with being Armenia - etc). I "discovered" my "Armenianess" from exposure to other family and my own interests, and though I don't speak or live as an Armenian per se - my presence here, interest in varous Armenian issues and participation in (limited) Armenian events & such, and my "blood" is enough - I think - to at least be considered as one - for what it is worth. I just want to be clear for the new members where I am coming from - becauase I am more or less assimilated (not my choice in a sense - but I have only done so much to become involved in the Armenian community and have never learned Armenian). OK. I think that this concern regarding assimilation/mixing & the like is understandable - but somewhat misplaced. I don't think that it is possible for the majority of Armenians living in the West to resist assimilation. It just isn't going to happen. I do think though - that if there are aspects to being Armenian that are worthwhile that these will continue - though perhaps this will only be some identification with being such and wwith Armenian and perhaps the religion - perhaps and perhaps some family foods, celebrations, dances & such. Of all you Armenian traditionalists I wonder how many of you actually do cook Armenian and prepare Armenian food on a regular basis (and I'll put my shish kebab & pilaf up against anyones!). And this whole marriage issue and mainting Armenian "pureness" - well it may work for some..for a while - but you cannot expect that this will be the riguer for all. Perhaps Armenians will form some sort of Amish community stuck in time - but I doubt that the majority of Armenians will maintina this lifestyle. And while my heart mourns the passing of our traditions etc - to think that we (Armenians in the West) could somehow isolate ourselves and resist assimilation is I think both a highly unlikely pipe dream and just not realistic. Our forefathers who were exposed to or emersed into other cultures did not reject those things that made their lives better. They adopted what suited them and maintained what still worked from their traditional ways. It is the same now - but time has been compressed and is moving more quikly - thus change is more rapid - like we have never seen before. It is both unrealistic and for the most part impossible to remain stuck in time and unaffected by the changes arround us. So - while many Armenians will marry other Armenians - many will not. And some wil maintian soem connection to their roots and some will not. If you really care about your culture and its survival you must make some adaption and move foreword - as stagnation will only have limited appeal. Time doeas not ever stand still - to think that it can is well - unrealistic to put it mildly. But if you do care (and I think this is great) - make being an Armenain something special and desireable - and then doen worry - it will happen...or not...but fretting over lost culture but doing nothing to "save" it (or evolve it) does you no good. You may understand these things better as you age and expose yourself to the world.

nairi - does that mean that you are bisexual as well? I think that there is a bit of leftward bias in the survey (which really tells you something about our forum members who scored to the right). I really enjoyed listening to my work collegue talking to himself as he answerd the questions...he is a good guy but if one is down & out or a little iffy like hagarag - well - I'd feel sorry for you gusy if he were in charge. And I'd be very surprised if anyone scored more libertarian then I...these beliefs are fundemental to who I am- like MJ I just so wish that the rst of the world could live up to my ideals.

I like it. I think Domino's version is also worthwhile. Yours is more strightforward and simple/clean - amd there is something to be said for that I think. You have captured the essence..good work!