Gor-Gor

Here is a link to a PDF file that goes through many of the changes. It lists the current version, the proposed amended version, and an explanation for the need for the amendment. If you can read Armenian (and can stand the depression-inducing orthography), here it is: http://www.yerkir.am/arm/sahmanadrutiunNew.pdf Keep in mind this is from Yerkir newspaper, ARF's official paper in Yerevan. ARF is pro-government. There is also an English breakdown somewhere...

I have a few comments. I'm happy the constitutional amendments passed. But I wish I could trust the results. There were so many reported irregularities. About double citizenship. The new amendments will go into effect Nov. 27, 2007. Also, the constitution only has one line about dual citizenship, saying it is now accepted, but that the terms of it will be laid out later by the National Assembly. So, nothing has been decided except the fact that dual citizenship is no longer per se banned.

Desperate people beg if there is no other way. We are desperate in our attempts to revitalize and develop our homeland. Nobody helps us, not even ourselves. So we must beg. I support the Telethon fully. How else are we going to raise $7.5 million in one night?

It's too bad the $7.5 million total was far below the $11.5 million raised last year. I have 2 things to say... 1) I watched most of the Telethon, and I wonder how much Louise Simone Manoogian donated. Last year she donated one million, and then another million conditioned on passing the $10m mark (which was passed). This year, I only saw that she donated $500,000. I don't know if she donated any more, as I didn't watch all of it. But if she didn't...why? It's not just her, but last year, we had many, many, many BIG donations (half a million, quarter of a million, one million, etc) -- and that is what helped us get to $11.5 million. This year, those big donations were absent. Maybe I'm wrong as I didn't watch the whole thing... 2) Another reason that I think the total was lower is that the cause was not as 'emotional.' In the past, we were raising money either for the Koris-Stepanagerd highway, or the North-South highway. Even though these were important projects, they were very emotional too. They were connecting Armenia to Karabagh, and then all of Karabagh together. The new cause, rebuilding regions of Artsakh by targeting hospitals, schools, water supply -- that is simply not as emotional or sexy or simple, even. I think this was to blame with the lower turnout. I hope ArmeniaFund was expecting a slightly lower turnout. On a related note, does anyone think we should also earmark some of the money to Armenia itself? After this 3-year 'Rebuilding Artsakh' project is over, I think we should focus on helping villages and towns of Armenia. I know Artsakh needs help too, but so does Armenia. Then again, maybe ArmeniaFund has stuck with Artsakh because with fewer than 200,000 people, you can really notice the difference that projects make. In a country of 3 million, these same projects are only a drop in the bucket... I just wish we could do more...

Ahhh, thank you.

Great read, thank you! I wish I could hear how the people of this village speak. It'd be very interesting! One final thing -- what in the world is a "litse"??

Bravo! Our amenorya schools need all the generous help that they can get! I hope Lincy considers establishing a trust to build an Armenian high school in Glendale's center.

There are 10996 root words in Armenian. (Of those, only 4231 are currently used in Armenian.) Here is a list of where those 10996 root words have come from. My book is in Armenian, and I don't know the English translation of some of the sources. I've listed examples, where available. "Bahlaveren" (I think a predecessor to Persian) - 966 Indo-European - 927 (Ex: Aluir, amis, yeghpayr, gin, doon. It also lists words such as louys, gov, and nav, which are all found in other languages [loos in Spanish, cow in English, naval in English]. The book says Indo-European words are "native Armenian" words because they have been in the Armenian language the longest, but I don't think this is a correct conclusion.) Greek - 918 (Ex: apse, paghnik, tadron, yegeghetsi, zepuir, bantog, kardes) Arabic - 702 (Ex: sndoog, gghbel, mgrad, narinch) Persian - 455 Assyrian - 211 (Ex: kaghout, hashiv, khmor, Oorpat, Shapat, sadana, gatsa) Turk-Tatar - 170 (Ex: bekh, yelag, khamajig) "Pnatsayn" - 153 (I think these are words which come from what something sounds like; the book lists "akrav" and "dzap" as examples. But it also lists "ayo" and "hayhoyel," so I don't know.) Greek-Latin - 151 "Yeprayagan" - 138 (Ex: amen, hopelian) Old French - 86 Caucasian - 60 (Ex: khod, aghp, khmel, janj) Georgian - 57 (Ex: khaz) New European - 44 (Ex: metod, system, cronig -- ie, method, system, chronic) "Asooreren" (NOT Assyrian) - 27 (Ex: tonir, kakat, kaghak, gghzi) Chaldean ("Khalderen") - 15 (Ex: ungouyz, dziran, garas, grtel) Old Latin - 11 Lesser Asia ("Pokr-Asiagan") - 9 (Ex: Asdvadz, garij) Meditteranean - 5 (Ex: kini, tooz, yiugh) Undetermined - 2221 The book lists examples for Bahlaveren and Persian together, and here are some: azad, anabad, ishkhan, jamanag, namag, bardez, vosdigan, osharag, tak, kouyn, gouyr, hantes) Source: Kordznagan Keraganootyoon, Arti Hayeren Lezvi. Zareh Melkonian, QUOTING H. Ajarian.

^ Cool, thanks for clearing that up!

Azkaganneroos maganoonnern en Jekjekian yev Kelejian. Dzanot en? about Kylie! Im amenasiradz yerkchoohineres eh. My favorite album is probably Fever. But I must admit to liking her reeeeally old stuff too, like I Should Be So Lucky. lol

Nor ashkhar is a fruit. It's probably not the original name of the fruit, and has something to do with immigration and seeing that fruit for the first time in a 'new world,' but that it what my family calls the fruit. It is a sweet, berry-like fruit, with a large seed in the center. It's orange in color. Not sure if you were taking the piss out of that last name, or seriously asking about it. But there we go. --- Totally unrelated, but how come many Hayastantsi surnames get rid of some of the vowels? Ex: Galustian --> Galstian Ex: Sargisian --> Sargsian Has it got anything to do with transliterating to Russian?

Eloren: Yev verchabes meguh Kylie-in keghetsig temkuh janchtsav!! I agree with everything you said. I was born in the US, but my family is from Aleppo, and before that, Dikranagerd/Kharpert. Our Western Armenian cultures have had so many influences and hardships over the centuries, but we've remained Armenian and we will continue to struggle to remain Armenian. There'sno need to feel inferior or embarassed to use foreign words here and there; if anything, they stand as a testament to the fact that even though we have lived on foreign soils and under foreign rule, we still call ourselves Armenian first. On a more personal note, I have family in Dubai and Abu-Dhabi. Morakrochuhs zavagneren meg haduh Dubai g'abri, isg muisn al Abu-Dhabi nor pokhatrvetsav. Yergookn al dzakoomov Halebtsi en, anshooshd.

Shad guh neres, Anahid...

Anahit, with all due respect, the original poster was asking for Western Armenian translations. Therefore, "my dearest friend" could NOT be translated as "Im Tangakin Unger" -- that is not acceptable Western Armenian grammar. You always have to put the "s" at the end, whether or not you ad "Im" at the front. Other than that, I'd liken "dearest" more to "sireli" than "tangakin." As for the second poster asking for translations, I'm assuming that that poster also wishes to have Western Armenian translations. In that case, here are mine: which one is his wife = Vor megn e ir (or "anor") ginuh? * "ir" is what we call "close third person" * "anor" is the equivalent of "nra" and is "far third person" everybody appreciates you = Amen mart kez guh knahadeh. * "Everybody" is directly translated to "amen mart," not "polor" (which is "all") * There is no direct translation of "appreciate" -- my dictionaries list "knahadel" as the equivalent, but I think it means "compliment" more than "appreciate" the pictures of your room are black = Koo senyagit ngarneruh sev en.

Halebtsis forever! It's so lame, because 60 years ago, all Beirutsis were Halebtsis.

Anahiduh arten indzmeh khntrets vor "digin" chganchem zink. I don't think aleher would go over too well, either. (do forgive me. i'm trying to learn where and when to use zink, zayn, iren, etc!)

I specifically worded my sentence to state that Western Armenian EVOLVED (not DEVELOPED) during Turkish times. Western Armenian (in its various dialects) has been spoken for a long time, before the Turks appeared, I know that. But during the last several hundred years, it EVOLVED, as all languages do, and it evolved within and under the sphere of Turkish influence. If we are to erase Turkish influence from WA culture -- then where do we stop? Surely before the Turks, there were others who influenced the language and culture. It's a slippery slope argument. Which is why I sarcastically said we should just go back to speaking krapar. I accept Western Armenian culture and language for what it is: Armenian at its core, but influenced by many peoples, events, etc over the centuries. And like I said, I admire its durability, and I take pride in that. And that comes hand-in-hand with some Turkish influences. So be it.

Non-noble and non-royal Armenians have had surnames for not more than 2 centuries. If anything, this may have been the first surname that my family has had. <> Because Western Armenian as a separate entity evolved within the Turkish empire. It is part of the culture. Moving to America and changing Toumanian to Truman, etc, is different than the situation at hand. If my family had changed their surname to an Arabic name once they went to Syria, I'd have no problem changing it. Whether I would change it back to Turkish or create an Armenian surname is another issue. But here, my last name is Turkish. It has been Turkish for over a century (at least). And it's not clear whether there was another surname before it. Since I feel Turkish influences are one part of the Western Armenian culture, I will keep the last name as is.

No problem. I hadn't visited the site in a long time, sorry I couldn't get to it sooner.

Anahid: I don't understand how a principal of an Armenian school can turn away an Armenian parent and child, knowing the realities of assimilation. Animasdoun gin! As for your daughter -- you know, nowadays there are a lot of programs to help adults and kids learn Armenian. There is one especially for Western Armenian, www.discoverarmenian.com

Arpa: I meant that I did understand your Arm-Turkish paragraph. And I half-jokingly said that it was sad that an American-born Armenian could still understand Turkish words. Which leads me to my greater point: You cannot separate Western Armenian culture from its Turkish influences. Being Western Armenian includes being influenced by Turkish culture. Trying to separate the two would be going back hundreds of years, to a time when we don't really know what it meant to be Western Armenian. If we remove all Turkish influences from Western Armenian, what are we left with? A "pure" generic Armenian? What is that? What does that mean? Who knows! We might as well go back to speaking krapar! Or try to speak Western Armenian with original pronunciation. I don't like the Turkish influence, but that's the truth. Attempting to erase all Turkish influence is not being truthful or, what's more, it is not being atuned to reality. Yes, we should say "harts" instead of "masalan," and yes we shouldn't want our Bolsahay brothers to speak Turkish to one another. But going so far as to change one's surname is trying to create something that was never there. My family has had a Turkish last name for at least a century. It is not right for me to change that last name; it's disrespectful to my family and I would be trying to create a reality that was never there. I hate the fact that it's Turkish, but I must recognize that my ancestors had Turkish last names for a reason -- they lived in a Turkish empire! That, whether or not I like it, is part of my history. To me, much of the pride of being Western Armenian is that we have lived alongside the Turks, we have been forced to make some compromises along the way (language, names, etc), but you know what -- we were able to maintain our identity! Now, to go back and to erase some of that is to take away from the pride of being an Arevmdahay... Anyway, that's how I see it. I'm ready for the flames!! lol

First, I did understand that "Armenian" paragraph! That's pretty bad for an Armo born in the US...Blame my mom! Second, your point is well taken, but is irrelevant. Young Armenians do not have the knowledge, or for most of them any interest whatsoever, to know that many Armenian surnames are formed from Turkish root words. What they see is a last name ending in "ian" and they will associate it with Armenian. In fact, almost all odars will associate it with Armenian as well. That's my point. It's good to have surnames of Armenian people that will be recognized as Armenian adorning a university that is home thousands of young Armenians. Whether or not the surname is made of an Armenian root is irrelevant. I hate the fact that my surname is made of a Turkish root. Payts, inch unem? Yellem pokhem? That's not reasonable.

Anahid: I'm so sorry to hear about your experience at the Hovnanian School. That's a very big shame!! Amot iren! The one positive thing about the "azkayin" schools here (ie, owned by the Antelias church) is that they all have ASL programs (Armenian as Second Language), so that students who have not had Armenian training but want to enter in the 3rd, 5th, 10th whatever grade, they will be able to by taking ASL classes. I wish the Hovnanian School had a similar program! But I'm glad to know that you are imparting your knowledge onto your daughter. Language is so so important! Yalla, im bargeloos jamanagn al yeger eh. Kisher pari. I'm feeling poetic, so I'll close with some Silva Gaboudigian: oo des, vortis, oor el lines ays loosni dag oor el knas te mort ankam mdkits hanes ko mayr lezoon chmoranas

Digin Takouhi: Does your daughter understand any Armenian at all? Did you speak it to her when she was little? As I believe that language is the savior of Armenians in the Diaspora, I urge you to speak Armenian with your daughter. I understand it would be difficult or rude to speak in front of your husband. But perhaps during some mother-daughter alone time, you could speak Armenian to her. Even if she responds in English, it's a step. My best friend (now 23) was raised in a similar household as your own daughter. One American-Armenian parent, and one ethnic parent, but English was the only language spoken at home. However, my friend attended Armenian school full time. She attests that the main reason she feels Armenian is because she went to Armenian school and learned the language.

Born in Los Angeles. Parents born in Aleppo, Syria. Mother's father born in Dikranagerd, Turkey. All the rest were born in Aleppo, Syria. HBARD HALEBTSI EM YES!