Gor-Gor

Blah blah blah. Go back a few pages either in this thread or the other one and re-read your garbage about Bedros Tourian and "chisel." (BTW, yeah, and ignore the rest of my post. Typical.)

Have you traveled to Beirut? Aleppo? I have. And no, they don't speak "25% arabic, 25% turkish and 25% english and the rest a self made armenian." I've heard this expression many times, and it is highly, highly exaggerated. The percentage of foreign words in spoken Western Armenian in Aleppo and Beirut is the same as the amount of foreign words in spoken Eastern Armenian in Yerevan. I have been to all 3 cities and have heard all 3 local spoken languages.

Just stop talking. You could have gotten the same message across without showing your bias. But I guess that bias is just too strong to hide...

See Arpa, this is one of your problems. One of the things you try to hide in your writings is the fact that you think EA is superior to WA. It's not just a matter of consonant pronunciation. It's a matter of your dislike of WA and your obsession with EA. The reason many of your posts do not logically make sense is because you try to claim you believe the 2 dialects are equal (barring WA's "Turkification"), but in reality, you hate the dialect. Case in point: Why would you respond to Johannes in Eastern Armenian, when your mother dialect is Western Armenian and his mother dialect is Western Armenian. What you did is unnatural and shows a conscious effort within your mind to peruse Eastern Armenian. Again, nothing wrong with EA, but it does show an insight into your mind... This is not an isolated instance, either.

Excuse me? When did I mix orthography and idiom?

Wow. You make me sad.

No one has ever claimed that. You live in a dream world where imaginary posters post imaginary things. Right. That's exactly what I said. I drew a distinction between spoken vs. standard Western Armenian. STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. Oh, I see you finally realized I was right...

Might I suggest you seek psychological counseling?

I have heard the sentence used. And not by Anglophone Armenians. The whole structure of my post necessitated translating. To have had a more authentic Armenian sentence, my English sentence would have to have had more substance. That is to say, it's not clear what the English sentence means, and so giving its Armenian counterpart could be done only through direct translation. The whole point was to illustrate when to use "mezi" and it served its purpose.

If by locative case, you mean words like "պարտեզում" and "սրտում"... I think it's generally known that Western Armenian "lacks" this seventh noun form. Often, instead of one word, the idea is expressed in more than one word. For instance, "պարտէզին մէջ" and "սրտիս մէջ." Depending on the noun, a word other than "մէջ" will be used, such as in the case of "հրապարակին վրայ" (not "հրապարակին մէջ"). Finally, in some instances, no additional word may be used. For example, instead of "երկնքում," in WA it might be "երկնքին մէջ" or it might also be just "երկինքը" (as in "երկինքը աստղեր կը գտնուին" or "երկնքին մէջ աստղեր կը գտնուին"). As for your comment regarding my teacher's teaching methods: we learned how to conjugate verbs, decline nouns, and so forth in our elementary grammar classes in elementary school. We might have also learned the peculiar pronoun rules at issue here (indzi/zis), but I think the problem is that probably 90% of WA speakers, whether in Beirut, Istanbul, Los Angeles, or elsewhere, they simply never use "zis." So even when we learned it in grammar class, it seemed archaic and formal and something unncessary in daily speech (even with parents and elders, as they didn't use them either). In high school, our Armenian classes were Armenian literature classes -- the time for learning grammar has passed. So, our teacher just gave us a basic shorthand. And it worked.

The problem being...? I'll admit the sentence was awkward to begin with in English, so its Armenian counterpart sounds equally awkward. But standing on its own, that is a grammatically correct sentence in Armenian.

In 9th grade, my brilliant Armenian teacher, knowing that her students' first language was English, taught us a shorthand way to differentiate between "zis" and "indzi." Every other Monday, in Armenian class, we would have composition lessons where we would write a short essay about a given topic. One day, we entered class, and our teacher had written in HUGE letters on the chalkboard, the following: Me = Zis To/For me = Indzi From that point on, I understood the difference, and I was able to apply the theory also to "mez/mezi," "tsez/tsezi" and "kez/kezi." It's all the same idea. For example: You slapped me = Zis abdagetsir You gave the book to me = Kirke indzi dvir Don't unnerve me = Mi chghaynatsner zis He is so nice to me = Inch pari e indzi hanteb While you should never translate from English to Armenian, this is an easy to way visualize and understand the difference. It also illustrates HOW WRONG and AWFUL it sounds to use the words incorrectly. Imagine saying "You slapped to me" (Indzi abdagetsir). I would say that probably 90% of WA speakers say "Indzi abdagetsir" instead of "Zis abdagetsir." And it's so wrong... More examples: I saw you = Kez desa I gave the pen to you = Kriche kezi dvi You scared us = Mez vakhtsootsir What is happening to us? = Inch ge badahi mezi? And there is your Western Armenian lesson for the day. I hope I was helpful.

Almost! ռուսերենից should be ռուսերենէն.

"Gor" is integral in spoken Western Armenian in order to differentiate between the present tense and the present continuous tense. For instance: I go = Yes g'ertam [present tense] I am going = Yes g'ertam gor [present continuous] Written (standard) Western Armenian does not recognize "gor" and there is therefore no way of differentiating between the 2 tenses without adding other words, for example "Yes hima g'ertam" or changing the tense entirely in order to approximate the meaning, for example "Yes bidi yertam hima." Eastern Armenian, of course, has a standard present continuous tense -- by adding "oom" to the end of the verb.

Assuming you are correct in that statement (which I do not concede) -- you would only be shedding light on the fact that you are the one with the deepest disrespect and stigma toward Western Armenian.

Unless she was referring to the orthography (assuming the book was published using Soviet orthorgaphy), that is unacceptable, and she should not be teaching Armenian. Both Eastern and Western Armenian literature are required portions of the curriculum at all Prelacy schools, Pilibos included.

Do you, and others on here, not realize that it is precisely because of statements and sentiments like the ones I have highlighted that there is a rift between the two dialects? Making fun?! Excuse me?! OF YOUR LANGUAGE?! That is some nerve you have. I love that you qualified your statement with "but again it's not a big deal." If it weren't, you shouldn't have brought it up. Onto your other comments -- "Gor" is an integral part of spoken Western Armenian. Just like the verb "a" in spoken Eastern Armenian. To my ears, and to the ears of all Western Armenians, "a" not only sounds incorrect, but also makes the listener think that the speaker is (for lack of a better term, and for purposes of illustrating my point) a "kyughatsi." Excuse me, maybe I should have typed "gyughatsi" so as not to make fun of your language.

Just what do you mean by "normal" -- I'd love to know. Rest assured, I speak Western Armenian with ease and with a degree of sophistication you probably would not expect. Next.

Once again, you respond to my posts without actually responding. You just love to shit-stir. This post wasn't even directed to you. And it's spelled կու տայ not կ’ուտայ. Next.

It is because of PEOPLE LIKE YOU that there is sometimes a "vs." between Eastern Armenian and Western Armenian. Shame on you.

I just wanted to see if anyone here has either taken part in the course, or knows someone who has? I have been wanting to attend for several years, and I fear this will be my last chance to do it as I'm graduating from law school and will likely not be able to get 3 weeks off from a future boss to go study in Italy. I've heard great things about it -- but I want to make sure that it is worthwhile for someone who already knows Armenian quite well, although I know it is nowhere near perfect. The deadline to register is the end of May. The program runs from August 1st through the 20th or so. I really want to do it! Any ideas...anyone? http://www.padus-araxes.com/

Tell me about it! I visited a school when I was in Artsakh. When the students would speak to me, they would speak in standard Eastern Armenian, and I could understand everything for the most part. But with each other, they spoke something that sound entirely like another language! Fascinating. I also had a private conversation with one of the school teachers in the playground. One of my favorite memories of Artsakh... She was fascinated by the whole idea of a Diasporan Armenian, the fact that I was born in the US but considered myself Armenian, and could speak Armenian with her...

Arpa: I'm supposed to understand "the spirit" of your posts, but in doing so, you expect me to overlook the errors in your analysis. I cannot do that. You said: "There is no such thing as EA or WA, aside from minor grammatical and orthographic idiosyncrasies.... Shoot me if you must, but I will never forgive our teachers who would pronounce Բարեւ/ Barev as Փարեւ/Parev. Բրի Գալուստ/Bari Galoust, Փարի Քալուստ/ Pari Kaloustdto you too." So, Western Armenian's verb conjugation is OK with you, but its pronunciation of consonants is not. Herein lies your problem, Arpa. Both of them were variants, aberrations if you will, from Classical Armenian. You're accepting one, but not the other. You can't do that. They both happened. They were both natural. You seem like a hypocrite. In the same breath, you claim there is no Eastern or Western Armenian, yet you attack Western Armenian incessantly. I have been reading these boards for several years, and this discussion is only the latest one where I have caught errors in your logical reasoning and analysis. THAT is what bothers me. As long as you get to "prove" your point, that is what matters. Well no, not when your arguments are based on erroneous examples. And yes, I do see that you have once again conveniently skirted the issues I brought up in my previous post. Zartonk: I appreciate your efforts to sort of mediate here. But there is no need. Your post implies I have some sort of stigma against Eastern Armenian. I don't. I have a stigma against people (like Arpa) who constantly like to bring down Western Armenian. I don't think I have ever put down Eastern Armenian. It's so stupid for me to do that. It is one of 2 equal heirs to our beautiful Krapar language, and frankly, it's not that different from what I speak. My problem is when others suppose that their dialect is superior to mine. I don't meet very many of these people, but unfortunately, Arpa is one of them. They say arguing over the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics -- whether you win or lose, you're still retarded. I know I should cut my losses and move on.

You are unbelievable, and not in the good way. How did Bedros Tourian come into the picture? And by the way, door is spelled դուռ, not դուր. But even more importantly, the latter spelling (դուր) DOES, IN FACT, MEAN CHISEL. So, no, Mr. Tourian was not stupid and he did not lack a knowledge of the Armenian language. Go read a dictionary sometime and stop pulling things out of your ass just to try to prove your nonsensical, imaginary points. Enough is enough! I asked you about Hagop Baronian. In all Armenian dictionaries, whether published in Yerevan or Beirut, the word Պարոն is spelled just like that. Now, try to defend your decision to spell it Բարոն.

Actually, հականիշ means antonym. Arpa, you continue saying the same things over and over again, and although I know better than to respond, I simply can't help myself. It's like you refuse to read, comprehend, and digest what I have posted to you, because all you want to do is repeat what you want to repeat. I think you disrespect the memory of Յակոբ Պարոնեան by choosing to spell his name in a way that he, himself would not have spelled it. For another thing, when you spell it Բարոնեան, it doesn't even make sense because there is no such word as Բարոն. I pray you spelled it that way only to "make a point" and not because that's how you actually spell it. You know, Arpa, it's one thing to be a Western Armenian who is aware that the way we pronounce some consonants has evolved from how Mesrob Mashdots would have pronounced them, and to be aware of the fact that the Armenian alphabet was modeled after Europe's Alpha-Beta-Gamma-Delta. However, Arpa, it's completely another thing to despise your own dialect. Get over it. And for the record, I have known about the Alpha-beta-gamma-delta connection with the Armenian alphabet since I was in elementary school, when my WESTERN ARMENIAN teacher taught us that. Good day. Բարի Օր. Pari Or.