Atheism

[gevo27]

THOT, your ridiculous posts of all those websites "debunking" the bible./// LOL.. you arent the first, byt he way all and everything argued is very easily cleared up,, i not gonna waste my time with you though.. Sorry thats how bad youv gotten in here...

 

God be with you

[THOTH]

THOT, your ridiculous posts of all those websites "debunking" the bible./// LOL.. you arent the first, byt he way all and everything argued is very easily cleared up,, i not gonna waste my time with you though.. Sorry thats how bad youv gotten in here...

 

God be with you

Yes of course.

[THOTH]

The atheists know all the answers. Everyone is wrong for essentially having faith.

Yes of course.

[THOTH]

it is pretty clear who has been rude and intolerant in this thread and who has brought a lot of hateful trash....

Yes of course.

[DominO123]

OK! Guys, please leave Thoth alone... no need to pull oil on the fire.

[Anonymouse]

Yes of course.

Apparently, only atheists are arrogant enough to believe they can know all the answers.

[THOTH]

Apparently, only atheists are arrogant enough to believe they can know all the answers.

LOL - now that is a laugh. All Ihave said is that I don't believe in your God - or any for that matter. And I have posted much that refutes both the need for such a belief and the fundementals of that belief (infalability of the Bible - attributes of God0...to whcih no one can give any reply but that I am being arrogant or hateful (where?) or telling me that my belief is a religion (when i have clearly refuted that it is not0 and that to (dis)believe as I do I must beleive in mutiple universes. Well (not) friends - I feel that I have utterly beaten all yoru (non) arguments ad you have nothign of substance to say and cannot refute me. So you cry that I am being mean - wah wah wah - well tough for you. And I have never - never - claimed to know any answers - thats just my point - I don't know anything! And neither do any of you!

[Sasun]

You can imagine as much as you want that you have beaten everyone, but you cannot offend people who happen not to share your whatever belief system is. You cannot call believers fools, loosers, make derogatory remarks about somebody's God, offend what many regard as holy just to insult them then claim innocence. Do you get it now tough guy? Or you just don't know...

[THOTH]

Sasun -

 

I initianlly refrained form junping into this argument - as we have been here befoere - exactly one year ago. And I didnt jump in until I read some of the arrogant (and innacurate) claims of gevo concerning our founding fathers and what they believed it - and also all the typical - in yur face christianity is the superior belief blah blah baleh - well you say i am offensve - I think people telling me that they way I or others live my life and such is wrong - based on these beliefs - and that i will got to helletc etc - I find these claims highly offensive. I also find that someone who would say that there was some understandable reason why my family was killed and our people murdered so foul - that this wa part of some gods plan -- etc as most offensive of all!

[Anonymouse]

LOL - now that is a laugh. All Ihave said is that I don't believe in your God - or any for that matter. And I have posted much that refutes both the need for such a belief and the fundementals of that belief (infalability of the Bible - attributes of God0...to whcih no one can give any reply but that I am being arrogant or hateful (where?) or telling me that my belief is a religion (when i have clearly refuted that it is not0 and that to (dis)believe as I do I must beleive in mutiple universes. Well (not) friends - I feel that I have utterly beaten all yoru (non) arguments ad you have nothign of substance to say and cannot refute me. So you cry that I am being mean - wah wah wah - well tough for you. And I have never - never - claimed to know any answers - thats just my point - I don't know anything! And neither do any of you!

Of course I hope you realize that logically one cannot prove a negative, in other words, one cannot prove that God does not exist. The only real defense you would have is to discredit the alternative. Thus that is what Freud did, took a systematic attack on God and religion.

 

Of course your inability to argue logically was already exhibited in the feminism debate when you resorted to personal attacks, since you couldn't fathom dissenting views, thus I am not surprised that you show the same behavior in this thread.

[Sasun]

Thoth, nobody has said anything about your life, family, etc... so I don't buy it. This topic started as purely non-personal debate, if you feel offended that there is a religion called Christianity with such and such beliefs then that's your personal problem and none of us has anything to do with that. Also people are entitled to make any claims about the founding fathers, origin of the cosmos, bilology, atmosphere pressure, etc... that's not offending to anyone.

[Anonymouse]

Thoth, nobody has said anything about your life, family, etc... so I don't buy it. This topic started as purely non-personal debate, if you feel offended that there is a religion called Christianity with such and such beliefs then that's your personal problem and none of us has anything to do with that. Also people are entitled to make any claims about the founding fathers, origin of the cosmos, bilology, atmosphere pressure, etc... that's not offending to anyone.

I am to guess that some people do not like getting a crack in their edifice of thought by discomforting views.

[Accelerated]

. You cannot call believers fools, loosers, make derogatory remarks about somebody's God, offend what many regard as holy just to insult them then claim innocence.

 

have to agree with Sasun on this one, Winston. I have read bunch of posts of your calling 'believers': idiots, brainless etc. And Im not the type that cares, but a lot of Armenians will find that insulting....

[Anoushik]

Ok, I have to admit I was very naive to have started this thread without realizing that this would turn into a place of insults. The only reason I did write about Atheism is because only recently, after a long year of trying to make sense of the world we live in, I realized that I'd become an atheist. Since I happened to discover it late evening this past Thursday, having just completed searching the American Atheists websites and similar websites, I felt the need to share this with people and also find out your views concerning this subject. I really had no intention to see people get upset, insult others, and try to convert people.

 

I was raised to believe that atheism is a negative thing and something to be ashamed of. This is really interesting since my mom has always said that she is an atheist and my paternal grandma has always frowned upon this and tried to discourage the idea. (My dad is really not religious but he is very spiritual and got upset at my mom.) Since I started seriously questioning religion a few years ago my mom became more confident to proudly say that she is an atheist. What I discovered this Thursday (the day I started this tread) is that there is nothing wrong with being an atheist. In fact, now I am proud to say that I am an atheist. I guess the reason I posted those links was that I was hoping if people were interested they could learn more about atheism and realize that most everything they know about atheism is a myth.

 

The reason I call myself an atheist is because I don't believe in the traditional God. There may be a higher power but, like I've said a few times already, I don't regard it to be God. I really don't care about scientifically proving the existance or nonexistance of God. Please, there is no point to argue about this since this is a tough question and unfortunately it's not easy to come to a definite conclusion. All we can argue about is whether we have faith in God (not just a higher being) or we don't. In fact, this is all I wanted to know. Thank you all for stating your opinions (especially Armat and Sasun, for you stated exactly why you believe in God, with answers other than the obvious "since the Bible said so").

[Anonymouse]

Atheism, one can argue, is like a religion itself, using different criteria and methods. Atheism in itself is a belief agreed upon by a number of people. It is not a religion in the traditional sense, it just based on different criteria. Even evolution has become a like class of faith in scientific circles. With that said, I am not very religious, because I do not go to Church, nor have any rallying point, unless at times of family baptisms, or weddings, or occasionally going myself.

 

I believe God created everything, for something cannot come out of nothing, for this goes into the relationship of causality, cause and effect, in Latin, the phrase "ex nihilo nihil fit" meaning from nothing, nothing can be made. Science has observed this indeed. If X then Y, if program then outcome, if it gets cloudy then it rains, wind causes waves, automobiles move because of an engine.

 

My argument for the basis of God is his creation of the soul, evidence of the soul is our free will, free from all the earthly laws and materials is free. It is, and I doubt many will accept this, the one piece of evidence to me that supports the existence of a soul, in strictly argumentative terms, aside from my own spiritual experiences.

 

Free will is being able to choose my own actions and question, free from other laws or causes. Unlike the laws we exhibit here on earth that take place in the realm of cause and effect we are responsible for our actions in the choices that we make. Free from the causal chains that make up our world, we can initiate causes out of our own will. You want to exercise free will? Intentionally cough, or raise your leg. Anyone can do it. I think I can. "I think, therefore I am", uttered Descartes. Free will is the immaterial basis of oneself, the soul. It is our ability to make choices free from any causes, and rather is in itself a cause. You can do a truth tree to determine of indeed this deductively flows and I have.

 

When one of your friends does something stupid, we often say "God you're stupid. Are you dumb? Don't you watch what you're doing?". This type of thing happens all the time in many different situations. Someone does something foolish and the other calls them "God", then insults them by saying that they are "stupid" or something, such as, "God, what did you do that for? You idiot!" Can you see just what it is I am trying to show here? We are part of a collective consciousness. We are in God and God is the creator of all things.

 

I believe God gave us our soul, mind, body, free will, however you wish to hyphenate it. I believe it is our duty to question everything. I however have faith in God and God I cannot question. I have questioned God before. I was an atheist, then an agnostic, but I have once again come back full circle to believing in God. Because God gave us the ability to choose and to question I believe indeed it is a healthy thing what Socrates prescribed. However, having found my spiritual wavelength, that I cannot question for that has been proven certain to me in my own experiences in ways that dwarf me and would be hard to believe for your common skeptic for me to sit here and translate it. Essentially it is based on what outlook we take. If you wholly embrace the materialist outlook, then God and spirituality are not for you. Of course, that is the beauty that each of us have the ability to question and hopefully some of you find the true path.

[Accelerated]

I believe God created everything, for something cannot come out of nothing, for this goes into the relationship of causality, cause and effect, in Latin, the phrase "ex nihilo nihil fit" meaning from nothing, nothing can be made. Science has observed this indeed. If X then Y, if program then outcome, if it gets cloudy then it rains, wind causes waves, automobiles move because of an engine.

 

My argument for the basis of God is his creation of the soul, evidence of the soul is our free will, free from all the earthly laws and materials is free. It is, and I doubt many will accept this, the one piece of evidence to me that supports the existence of a soul, in strictly argumentative terms, aside from my own spiritual experiences.

 

Free will is being able to choose my own actions and question, free from other laws or causes. Unlike the laws we exhibit here on earth that take place in the realm of cause and effect we are responsible for our actions in the choices that we make. Free from the causal chains that make up our world, we can initiate causes out of our own will. You want to exercise free will? Intentionally cough, or raise your leg. Anyone can do it. I think I can. "I think, therefore I am", uttered Descartes. Free will is the immaterial basis of oneself, the soul. It is our ability to make choices free from any causes, and rather is in itself a cause. You can do a truth tree to determine of indeed this deductively flows and I have.

 

When one of your friends does something stupid, we often say "God you're stupid. Are you dumb? Don't you watch what you're doing?". This type of thing happens all the time in many different situations. Someone does something foolish and the other calls them "God", then insults them by saying that they are "stupid" or something, such as, "God, what did you do that for? You idiot!" Can you see just what it is I am trying to show here? We are part of a collective consciousness. We are in God and God is the creator of all things.

 

I believe God gave us our soul, mind, body, free will, however you wish to hyphenate it. I believe it is our duty to question everything. I however have faith in God and God I cannot question. I have questioned God before. I was an atheist, then an agnostic, but I have once again come back full circle to believing in God. Because God gave us the ability to choose and to question I believe indeed it is a healthy thing what Socrates prescribed. However, having found my spiritual wavelength, that I cannot question for that has been proven certain to me in my own experiences in ways that dwarf me and would be hard to believe for your common skeptic for me to sit here and translate it. Essentially it is based on what outlook we take. If you wholly embrace the materialist outlook, then God and spirituality are not for you. Of course, that is the beauty that each of us have the ability to question and hopefully some of you find the true path.

 

good stuff....

[THOTH]

Athesism is not a religion. I've already explained this in sufficient detail.

 

And where T F did God come from if not out of nothing? And if you people can't see that you are condescending and negative towards aethists, atheisim - and in general believers of things other then what you accept - then i'm sorry for you (which i am anyway). That you all pin this on me - well thats just bullshit. I have posted quite seriously and quite extensively. i have shown where thereare contradictions in your concept of God - where he cant be jst good and both good and eveil simulataneously (and who T F is he saving us from? His own damnation)...anyway - yes its all a big waste of time. Like I said - i beleive that if I brush my teeth 3 times daily I'm going to heaven (and look - you ridiculed my belief - how nasty pof you!) - yes you cannot at all prove me wrong. And I see heaven as one big tit to suck on - prove me wrong? Can't you see - its all make beleive - tooth fairy stuff...and there are infinite possibilities - each which cannot be disproved. Just as there are believers of other religions - who are just as passionate as you. And we have already discussed before the derrivitive nature of most all Christian (and old testament) scripture...its really not all that orignial in the least. And just because you cannot concieve of somthing comming out of nothing (or out of whatever - bubbles colliding etc) - does not mean that there must be a "god' to kick start things - this is the ultimate paradox iof ther ever was one. ...faith in God you cannot question - fine...but don't also then go around saying that there is no such thing as Atheisim - or that it is a religion - as you know nothing! (obvioulsy)

 

And yes - if your God did exist - (whatever it may be...)...but based on the Bible - and on this beings threats against humanity - and torture and murdering etc of such - for vain and arbitrary reasons - well - I would say with 100% conviction that such a god must be upposed with all of ones might.

 

And i have been most scincere in presenting my beliefs - and my outrage over soem off the false claims that have been made her - founding fathers were Christian, my family was killed to satisfy some whim of some evil (obvious - provably so) god and that my regection of theism is somehow a religion - as if anyone who rejects the exsistance of Santa Clause is suddenly a follower of the anti-Santa Clause religion - come now - I do find these thinsg offensive. And i will not stop if the likes of you people continue such.

[Armat]

Not directly related but here an interesting experience I had years ego in LA Zen center.

I joined the Zen mediation session with a master and there were different groups of people amongst us and one blond young American woman kept asking questions just before the mediation start. The master was a patient man and did answer her many questions regarding Buddha, enlightenment, God etc.

Finally the master said “if you please stop asking the questions and meditate for twenty min and perhaps your questions would be answered”

I believe when most people talk about religion they approach it dualistically but that is only the first stage. To understand totally one needs to transcend dualism and go beyond and once there the rational arguments, atheism, bible, resurrection, crusaders all become second-degree.

You cannot understand faith without practicing. It is as simple as that.

[Sasun]

Anonymous, interesting way to approach God, I don't know too many people who think that way. I don't think one can intellectually understand faith, God, spirituality, etc... we are not just intellectual beings but spiritual beings, we are not bound by intellectual knowledge and logic, our intellect is all limited and imperfect. Luckily, there is faith which doesn't come from the mind but from the soul, and the best way to know things spiritual is to practice spirituality like Armat suggests.

 

Anoushik, I don't see any fault of yours opening this thread. You have been posting civilized and respectful posts, and you have been honest enough to explain your belief and your reasons of being an atheist. Whatever your belief is I will respect you for that. It doesn't matter that you are an atheist, you haven't shown hatred or intolerance to people with faith, only shared your personal thoughts and beliefs without trying to hurt anyone. So thank you.

 

And Thoth, you have shown your true nature.

[Anonymouse]

Athesism is not a religion. I've already explained this in sufficient detail.

 

I'm sure you've explained it and I don't doubt your scholarly efforts in doing so, and if I could, I would give you a trophy to feel special. However, it can be argued, like I said, that atheism is like a religion itself, albeit not in the traditional sense, yet a religion itself, a belief in a non-belief. You don't have to like it, but that is the way it goes.

 

And where T F did God come from if not out of nothing? And if you people can't see that you are condescending and negative  towards aethists, atheisim - and in general believers of things other then what you accept - then i'm sorry for you (which i am anyway).

 

I am condescending toward everyone in a sardonic manner of course - all in the name of humor and laffter. But did you just admit that atheism is some sort of belief?

 

That you all pin this on me - well thats just bullshit. I have posted quite seriously and quite extensively. i have shown where thereare contradictions in your concept of God - where he cant be jst good and both good and eveil simulataneously (and who T F is he saving us from? His own damnation)...

 

Well, that all depends on what worldview you adhere to. Do you adhere to the materialist worldview, that we are just animals, without purpose here, wandering mindlessly. Those that embrace the materialistic perspective, buy alot of shoes, lots of clothes, go out alot, and have lots of sex. Those that embrace the aesthetic worldview are intriguied by learning and knowledge which supposedly saves them from this desolate earth. Then there are those of the spiritual persuasion that believe man is am embodiment of animal and spirit, that beyond the material body he possesses, he is a spiritual being, with a desire for, and a search of a spiritual path and experiences. God is God, he is neither good nor evil, of course this is my belief since God is beyond Good and Evil and outside of time and space ( this is a Hindu perspective ).

 

yes its all a big waste of time. Like I said - i beleive that if I brush my teeth 3 times daily I'm going to heaven (and look - you ridiculed my belief - how nasty pof you!) - yes you cannot at all prove me wrong. And I see heaven as one big tit to suck on - prove me wrong? Can't you see - its all make beleive - tooth fairy stuff...and there are infinite possibilities - each which cannot be disproved. Just as there are believers of other religions - who are just as passionate as you. And we have already discussed before the derrivitive nature of most all Christian (and old testament) scripture...its really not all that orignial in the least.

 

In fact no one denies that Christianity is for the most of its bulk built upon other religions and other similar myths about saviors and resurrections, most notably Mithra. The symbolism of the serpent is not just in Christianity but is found throughout all religions. The garden of Eden is referred to in Babylonian and Sumerian literature in different ways, such as Edin, or Idin. Of course you aren't the first the spot this nor the last. But what does this show? What pattern can we deduce? In fact, most of the world religions show alot of similarity, show a creator, a code of ethics, hidden in allegories and symbolism.

 

And just because you cannot concieve of somthing comming out of nothing (or out of whatever - bubbles colliding etc) - does not mean that there must be a "god' to kick start things -

 

It's not that one cannot conceive of something coming out of nothing, sure we can, but that doesn't logical. In our everyday lives, we create and make babies, we create and invent a gizmo. We are there. We exist. We only unlock a certain secret in nature. We only discover what was there and create it. Something coming out of nothing, is not so much a problem with conception, it is a problem in our soul that doesn't add up and coexist. We are spiritual beings that cannot settle with nothingness. I have a desire for a spiritual connection with God. My desire for something non earthly suggests to me that there is something beyond our material world and that I seek it; this relationship with the creator. To quote C.S. Lewis:

 

"Creatures are not born with desires unless satisfaction for those desires exists. A baby feels hunger: well there is such a thing as food. A duckling wants to swim: well, there is such a thing as water. Men feel sexual desire: well, there is such a thing as sex." He then implies that we all have a deep inner desire for a relationship with the creator and an existence beyond this life. He writes further, "If I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world. If none of my earthly pleasures satisfy it, that does not prove that the universe is a fraud. Probably earthly pleasures were never meant to satisfy it, but only to arouse it, to suggest the real thing."

 

What I find in the arguments of you and others is the need to try to make the belief or disbelief in God from other people conform to you, since if you yourself have not experienced a spiritual moment of exaltation, or some satisfaction of God, that no one else must have. They are fools believing in fairy tales similar to the tooth fairy. One can indeed wonder why you have spent so much time here trying to discredit God, and if you have other discussions during your life, spend most of it discrediting God, if for you the answer has already been solved? If you do not believe there is God or God doesn't exist, why are you so adamant in pursuing to discredit such a entity? So I question atheists who constantly write whether or not there is a God if indeed in their minds the question has been answered. Can this be anything but some form of desire wishing for God to be there?

[Anileve]

It is very interesting how philosophical debates always transform into the playground for personal insults. Opinions will always be individual and if you do not know how to approach a discussion packed with personal views in a civil and respectful manner than there is no reason to get involved, otherwise it just turns into a monologue. By the way guys Winston is not pinning anyone in particular to the classification he is merely stating his opinion regarding collectivism without personal analysis armed with a blind belief. For to believe in something you must decipher and define it for yourself without being fed “undisputable” material (religion).

 

Everyone has their own understanding of God, perhaps it means “love” to some or their “mother” or a “stone in the ground”, each entity if brings upon spiritual fulfillment, can be credited as God. Faith is intimate and universally undefined, leaving room for personal specifications.

 

The truth is that we all need to tell our story and to understand our story. We all need to understand and cope with death and birth. We need to signify life, to touch the eternal, to understand the mysterious, to know who we are. So what do we do? We assign the unknown to “God”, for human beings cannot live without answers, yet they cannot live without mystery. Perhaps there is a reason we don’t know the truth about God and our purpose in life, perhaps if we knew the reason, life on its own would lose it’s purpose, because perhaps there is nothing, and that scares people so they turn to God. Protection from the fear of the unknown.

 

However one common mistake I notice many make, is confusing faith with religion, and non-religious person is referred to as an “atheist”. However that on its own is a paradox, since a believer in something powerful can be a person of faith, except god is substituted with a different word, because after all the word “God” is a man made word, it gained its meaning through the human ambition to explain the unknown. So who is to say what God should be like or look like? I don’t believe that there is a portrait and an autobiography available to establish it. Interestingly enough I always remembered something a religious woman said to me once, and that day I understood. She said “Agh Evelyn! I don’t know how she doesn’t believe in God, she must be very brave because it’s so hard to live without ‘HIM’”.

[gevo27]

agreed anonymous!!!!!

[Anoushik]

What I find in the arguments of you and others is the need to try to make the belief or disbelief in God from other people conform to you, since if you yourself have not experienced a spiritual moment of exaltation, or some satisfaction of God, that no one else must have. They are fools believing in fairy tales similar to the tooth fairy. One can indeed wonder why you have spent so much time here trying to discredit God, and if you have other discussions during your life, spend most of it discrediting God, if for you the answer has already been solved? If you do not believe there is God or God doesn't exist, why are you so adamant in pursuing to discredit such a entity? So I question atheists who constantly write whether or not there is a God if indeed in their minds the question has been answered. Can this be anything but some form of desire wishing for God to be there?

Ok, interesting questions. I'll speak from my viewpoint.

 

I am not one of those atheists who only believe in materialism and only believe things that they see. I am still spiritual, and the reason being is because I do want to believe. If God really does exist I am very grateful to Him for the life He's given me. But it's my life. And everybody has different lives. Sure, some people might be better off than I am (economically and maybe even socially) but I know that more people have it much worse than me. If God exists then I consider myself being blessed. But because everyone's born into different situations and circumstances, it is this that makes me not believing that God exists.

 

You (and all Christians) say that He has given us free will. That would be fine if everyone was born in this world under the same circumstances. But how fair is it to expect people to act rightously (not kill, rape, etc.) if it is their environment that has forced them to commit these crimes. They don't know any better. They haven't been given the same opportunities like I have been given - a loving family that can nurture and support. I will never kill cold-heartedly because I know the value of life very well. But how do you expect the murderer to know what the value of life is if he was never given the chance? Of course, not everyone under difficult circumstances become criminals. But you know very well that a lot of people born in this world suffer all their lives. I am not discrediting God - it is just that the loving, powerful God does not exist. Now I ask you, the believers of God to please tell me why you think this God exists.

 

PS. Being spiritual is not the same as believing in God. I believe in the existence of a soul.

[Sasun]

Now I ask you, the believers of God to please tell me why you think this God exists.

Anoushik, here is my understanding (not original by the way, I have learned a lot from Eastern spiritual heritage apart from Christ's teachings)

 

In God's eyes pleasure and pain are the same, they are both experiences. Everytime we experience something so does God since he is inside ourselves. God inside ourselves is really what we call the soul. So when somebody suffers in ignorance God also suffers. It is not unjust, it would be unjust if God was standing outside the room and enjoying the game while we were suffering ("suffering" from our perspective).

 

Yes, we do not have equal opportunities, we are all born and have unique lives. Some have more earthly difficulties than others. This life is temporary while the soul is eternal. What should matter to us is the soul's development. Who is to say that difficult environment is less beneficial for the soul's development? So what we consider a bad life could really be a blessing for the soul, and a very comfortable life could be a terrible experience for the soul.

So you are asking, why punish or blame someone who was born in such a state that was very difficult to follow the rightous path? Is it not God who created this difficult state? Why blame the person? Well, courage, strength, ability to overcome challenges are divine qualities. God want's us to be winners in the life challenge, we are divine beings and anything else is sub-standard. To become a winner in life gives utmost spiritual satisfaction to us and serves the purpose of life. So, what we view as a difficult life is in fact a carefully designed path for spiritual development and soul's enjoyment and fulfillment. We have a mission to carry out, life is not random and meaningless. A lot of people are rightous while their neighbors have become criminals, how is that? We are all different individuals. Some are strong and some are weak.

 

It is important to mention that I am a believer of soul reincarnation (not exactly a Christian belief I know, but also not contradicting), in that light things are more clear. Let's say a particular life was a total waste and failure in spiritual terms for the soul. Well, that's not good but there are always more births for this particular soul to develop, hundreds and thousands of future births. Depending on the soul's track record it might spend some time in a state of consciousness that is not nice (we call it hell), but that is not eternal. After some time the soul will recieve a rebirth. In other words, no matter how many mistakes we make, there are always future chances to correct.

 

OK, I will not say more, but there are very simple explanations for many questions that otherwise raise serious doubts about God. But if you look for the answers, they are there. It is very easy to doubt anything at hand, but it is not right to go the easy way. Look for the answers persistently and you will find them.

[THOTH]

God wants us to brush our teeth 3 times a day. And my - he does hate cavities. Cavaties are a sign of the devils influence - and he is bad. I have no cavities I am pure and filled with the spirit of the lord. I will suck on the divine tit in heaven forever while you poor sods - motuhs filled with cavities - you will shovel the deveils shit forever and burn burn burn!. Too bad sucka's!