DominO123 Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 My friend i dont know how many of these young men survived I know few of them but i dont know who made it Are you there in the picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph parikian Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Quoted frpm Domino The war was inniciated by actions aiming to start a conflict, like the bombing of the bus full of young soldiers(christians and muslims). To correct you it was on Sunday afternoon April 13/1975 I was watching a soccer game between Homentman and Nejme in west Bairut Shamoun stadium we left after the game to go back to Bourj Hamoud and there were armed people androad blocks all over i was in car with Dikran Apkarian and his two sons Sarkis and Boghous we have to drive through west Bairut and all kined of armed people were on the streets then we came to east Bairut were the christian Falanges blocked all the roads When finaly made it we heard that a bus cariying palestinians from Tell Azaatar was ambushed while going back to the camp and all died , they were not soldiers And thats how the civil war started http://lexicorient.com/cgi-bin/eo-direct-f...leb_civ_war.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War http://www.rimbaud.freeserve.co.uk/lebanon_civwar.htm#beginn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph parikian Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Are you there in the picture? Maybe maybenot i am not going to tell you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Quoted frpm Domino To correct you it was on Sunday afternoon April 13/1975 I was watching a soccer game between Homentman and Nejme in west Bairut Shamoun stadium we left after the game to go back to Bourj Hamoud and there were armed people androad blocks all over i was in car with Dikran Apkarian and his two sons Sarkis and Boghous we have to drive through west Bairut and all kined of armed people were on the streets then we came to east Bairut were the christian Falanges blocked all the roads When finaly made it we heard that a bus cariying palestinians from Tell Azaatar was ambushed while going back to the camp and all died , they were not soldiers And thats how the civil war started http://lexicorient.com/cgi-bin/eo-direct-f...leb_civ_war.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War http://www.rimbaud.freeserve.co.uk/lebanon_civwar.htm#beginn Hmmm... I guess I was wrongly informed then. I was even not born when it happened. What I heard was the young soldiers packed in a bus were killed in an explosion.(a bomb) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mx5 Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 If Israel did alot of wrong things..it is for you to let guys like me know. JF from my point of view the 1982 incursion to lebanon had its pros and cons on Lebanon's situation in general: -expelled Arafat and his gang fom his den and out of Beirut -repelled the Christian forces from Mountains (where they shouldn't have been in first place)by helping and giving support to Druze. -had the Maronite president signed the negotiated treaty with Israel,the subsequant events would have taken a different course,but dont know which direction. these are the pros,the cons: -it was a war,a destructive war,many innocent poeple died and their houses destroyed. -it helped the creation of Hozballah indirectly,which is regarded here from vast majoty of the population both Christians and Muslimans as a menace to the Lebanon's modern and moderate image.And later for years to come Lebanons infrustructure was systematicaly destroyed by Israel's airforce in retaliation to its (hozballah's)actions.again it was the average innocent people who suffered asking among themselves why Israel destroys our Electricity and other facilities when it is Syria who is supporting Hozballa. Now, what did it achieve from Israels perspective?you tell me!! Shalom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Friend Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 I deeply regret what was done to the average citizen. of Lebenon. Syria will pay the price if the current climate continues..I regret what is happening to the average Palestinian as well. they are also hostage to thugs. I am on this site because I view a lot of what is posted as similiar to my people. the need of a homeland, assimilation, etc. We have a lot in common. Someone posted that Armenians in the U.S. Should lobby like the Jews. I applaud this. Your cause is just. If people deny your suffering, to me, it is as if they are denying my peoples as well. Shalom and Happy New Year from New Jersey. Gnos't{sp?} JF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Neil Diamond is Armenian?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Friend Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 LOL. No. I have a feeling you know he is a Brooklyn Jew like Barbra and co.! lol JF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Hey JF, LOL, I guess you know my MO by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 JF, These Soviet and Arabized Armenians have a VERY hard time psychologically dealing with certain subjects. Since I bring things to their attention that do not sit well with them, they convince themselves that I am Jewish like you or that I am possibly a Turk. Yet I am either 3/4 or 7/8 Armenian, as we only do not know whether my mother's father was all Assyrian or half-Armenian. The haroust (wealthy) Armenians on my father's side have had us traced back to the Lusignan family of the Armenian/Frecnh Catholic Kingdom of Cilicia. We do not have similar details on my mom's side. The Chrisitian Jews of Anatolia did not disappear off the face of the earth. Their descendants are still around, probably posting as Armenians in this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph parikian Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 JF, These Soviet and Arabized Armenians have a VERY hard time psychologically dealing with certain subjects. Since I bring things to their attention that do not sit well with them, they convince themselves that I am Jewish like you or that I am possibly a Turk. Yet I am either 3/4 or 7/8 Armenian, as we only do not know whether my mother's father was all Assyrian or half-Armenian. The haroust (wealthy) Armenians on my father's side have had us traced back to the Lusignan family of the Armenian/Frecnh Catholic Kingdom of Cilicia. We do not have similar details on my mom's side. The Chrisitian Jews of Anatolia did not disappear off the face of the earth. Their descendants are still around, probably posting as Armenians in this forum. And you being an Americanized Armenian " psychlogically ???? " have easier time dealing with certain subjects as ???????????? Why you dont try DNA test's to fined out if you are 3/4 or 7/8 armenian you could be 1/60 french or decendent of one of the crusaders 1/90 latin Lets put this confusion to rest once and for all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyRoss Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 what did Israel do right {if anything}and in what ways were theywrong when they went into Lebanon six months later. JF It is too long to explain. This is an armenian forum so I will just say one thing. Israel did a lot of wrong things. Among them, Israel killed a lot of innocent people. Isn't that enough ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 I was never much for marches and protests in my youth - unless for a cause that I really believed in and was very bothered by something. Well one of these was the massacres commited by the phallangists on the Palestinian camps (Shabilla & ? - forgot the other name now) - implicitily enabled/allowed/encouraged by Sharon. This and other actions by the Isrealis (including cluster bombing of Armenian hospitals) really disgusted me. So I joined a protest in front of the white house. There were many Armenians there and others as well (and I brought wine of course - I was very popular! as these things go)...and we got into a bit of a scuffle with the JDL who arrived in a bunch of pickup trucks and started attacking isolated protesters on the fringes - got pretty nasty actually...anyway for me it was exactly half a life away - as I was 21 and am 42 now...I just found that to be interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 These were the infamous massacres at refugeed camps of Sabra and Chatila. Very sad chapter in Palestinian and Lebanese history. Interestingly enough but not exactly a revelation: Israel´s current PM had a not neglectable role in the whole thing. Such is politics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Yeah, I was watching a documentary about the Sabra and Chatila massacres recently -- such a sad/horrible event.... one of the people who probably took part in it was killed last year (?) by a car bomb, I believe.. Elie Hobeika is his name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 (edited) Some pics of Sabra and Shatila (sp?) massacre: http://www.peter-f.de/sabra_chatillah_1982.htm http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/palestine/index6.htm Note: viewer discretion advised... And I lived partly through the Lebanese civil war in a more or less majority Armenian populated area, and I did see a lot of militiamen stop Armenians and question them/harass them, etc. I remember they even stopped me once (and I was a kid) while I was walking home from school, and asked me which side I was on... hmmmmm... But I don't know.. I wasn't old enough to know what Armenians were going through w.r.t. choosing sides... but I do remember when we used to go to the shelters, they talked a lot about who was on which side, and most of them were on General Aoun's side..... Edited January 8, 2004 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 In any of your views, what did Israel do right {if anything}and in what ways were theywrong when they went into Lebanon six months later. 1955 -- At a secret cabinet meeting, Sharett quotes Moshe Dayan as saying that the "only thing necessary is to find an officer, even just a major. We should either win his heart, or buy him with money, to make him agree to declare himself the savior of the maronite population. Then the Israeli army will enter Lebanon, occupy the necessary territory, and will create a Christian regime which will ally itself with Israel. The territory from the Litani southward will be totally annexed to Israel, and everything will be all right." Dayan also admitted that "much anxiety had to be generated... the lives of Jewish victims also had to be sacrificed to create provocations justifying subsequent reprisals..." For the next ten years, Israel's concerns would center around Egypt and the perceived threat of Nasser's calls for Pan-Arab unity. It was not until after the Six Day War of June 1967 that Israel resumed its plans for Lebanon. 1969 -- Israeli planes bombed and destroyed Beirut's new international airport in another attempt at destroying that country's commercial and economic infrastructure. 1982 -- Ariel Sharon's Operation Peace for Galilee, this fifth Arab-Israeli war, and the massacres at Sabra and Shatila, Palestinian refugee camps outside Beirut, carried out under Israeli illumination. The Hizbulla, a group of southern Lebanese Muslims, came into existence as a result of this latest Israeli campaign, and in response to Israel's illegal occupation of their territory, as a liberating force. In April 1996, the Israeli armed forces launched an operation code-named "Grapes of Wrath", which was intended to wipe out Hezbollah's base in southern Lebanon. Critics of the operation accused the Israeli government of electioneering for a general election which was due in August. International condemnation greeted the massacre on 18 April 1996 of over 100 Lebanese refugees in a UN base at Qana, in what the Israeli military said was a mistake. i'm not an expert on history, although i've studied Lebanese history for God knows how long, but I took those from the internet... Israel (and Syria) is (/are)clearly to be blamed for a lot of what happened during that time in Lebanon, including the Sabra and Shatila massacres and the Qana massacre, during which i was in lebanon and pretty close... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakharar Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 What a strange coincidence. Elie Hobeika was killed shortly after he announced that he was going to give testimony about the events at Sabra and Chatilla. I don't know what the implications would have been, but I guess it would have been too incriminating for some. Especially for his bosom buddies in the IDF and the Israeli establishment. That bit about Moshe Dayan whom everyone loves to purport as the most benign and Arab-friendly Israeli commander, doesn't surprise me at all. He was someone who didn't mince words. In fact he should be commended for his straightforwardness. Maybe he did it for a reason. (Take the hint) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 So I joined a protest in front of the white house. There were many Armenians there and others as well (and I brought wine of course - I was very popular! as these things go)...and we got into a bit of a scuffle with the JDL who arrived in a bunch of pickup trucks and started attacking isolated protesters on the fringes - got pretty nasty actually LOL at: JDL and "I was very popular!" and most of them were on General Aoun's side Hang on a sec....was there more than one Christian side? And I was under the impression that the Armenians were pretty much neutral and took-up arms only to defend their quarter of Beirut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakharar Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Wasn't that the one who was killed along with his family in 1990. Or was it General Chamoun? I always mix them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 (edited) General Aoun still lives, in exile (France)... Samir Gaegea (the other guy) is in jail (not sure if he's been released)... As far as I know, he's Christian... More about him here: http://www.lebaneseforces.com/geagea.asp And about Michel Aoun: http://www.meib.org/articles/0101_ld1.htm I strongly believe that Elie Hobeika's assassination was of Israel's doing.... the car was blown up by a remote control... 22 pounds of TNT in a vehicle Hobeika was passing by.... More about his assassination here: http://www.meib.org/articles/0201_l1.htm Edited January 8, 2004 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Wasn't that the one who was killed along with his family in 1990. Or was it General Chamoun? I always mix them up. That was Chamoun indeed. On 21st October 1990, Dany Chamoun, the leader of the National Liberal party, who was against Syrian presence in Lebanon and had been a strong supporter of General Aoun's policies was killed in cold blood by uniformed gunmen who broke into his apartment in the early hours. His wife and his two young boys, aged 5 and 7, were also killed in the most disgraceful of ways. The scale of the horror and the savagery of the killings were barbaric even by Lebanese standards. The housekeeper took Dany's baby daughter and hid in the attic, they were the only survivors. What is not surprising is that nothing has been done to find the assassins. http://www.lebaneseforces.com/blastfromthepast015.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 (edited) Hang on a sec....was there more than one Christian side? And I was under the impression that the Armenians were pretty much neutral and took-up arms only to defend their quarter of Beirut well, it was a more passive support, rather than an active one. by "support" i meant "choosing sides", not necessarily taking arms and fighting.. however, i believe there were a lot of Armenians killed... Edited January 8, 2004 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 What a strange coincidence. Elie Hobeika was killed shortly after he announced that he was going to give testimony about the events at Sabra and Chatilla. "Of course Israel doesn't want witnesses against it in this historic case in Belgium which will certainly convict Ariel Sharon, the permanent and continued criminal." - Shimon Peres to reporters in Jordan Hobeika said in July that to prove his own innocence he was ready to testify against Sharon. He repeated the offer on Wednesday to visiting Belgian senators. The Palestinians' case was launched under laws giving Belgian courts powers to try crimes against humanity, wherever they have been committed. I don't think it was Palestinians who killed him, simply because that would be shooting oneself on the foot, especially when he said he would testify... let the guy testify and get Sharon convicted, and then do whatever you wanted to do to him -- that is why I don't believe it was the Palestinians who did it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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