Tarantula Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Hello guys ! I'm a new member here, and i'm so glad to find such a great forum that joins Armenians from all over the world. I'm from Lebanon , and wanted to tell u guys that there are loads of Armenians here , but unfortunatly they are getting more into Lebanese than Armenians. It might be the same in other countries too, but let's think about some good ways of keeping our Armenian souls and reality without ignoring them ! We call this in armenian "tsoulvil" right?? Please don't get me wrong i don't mean we should be racists and shout out ARMENIAN!! all the time ! naaaah! I can be as much Armenian as Lebanese at the same time, cs Lebanon is my country too, i was born here and i cant just walk away from it and leave to Armenia , and none of you can do that ,can u ? I'm not daring anyone , but it's just a matter of habit and lifetime right ? But let's keep our image high above in front of everybody else who thinks Armenians are losers or whatever so ... We are a great People rare to find the same thru all the history ! Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyRoss Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 i was born here and i cant just walk away from it and leave to Armenia , and none of you can do that ,can u ? Hello Tarantula and Welcome ! Why not ?? I can. Did you ever visit Armenia ? If not you should, then I'm sure you will think differently ! Believe me "Akhper" You know that even non-armenian lebanese are going there ? Not only for business. Just another thing, who said Armenians were "losers or whatever so.." ?? For the rest of your post I agree with you. I remember that lebanese, mainly the Christians-Maronits (a majority), were racist and malicious with the Armenians of Lebanon (jealous of us perhaps, because we had succeeded well in business...in their own country). The only ones who were well with us, were especially Christian-Orthodoxe, Catholics and Moslems. You know, I always have a hatred against them, even if things aren't the same of course. Fortunately that the younger generation is cleverer ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Welcome to the forum Tarantula...and yeah - I think you got it pretty much all right... And glad to hear that the Armenian community in Lebanon is at least somewhat thriving...after all you have been through starting in the '80s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mx5 Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 (edited) its good to see a fellow countryman on this forum it happens so that this is my first post here too,Ive been lerking for some time now here on this forum I should say that as an Armenian I am really proud of it. Tarantula yes it is difficult to leave here after years of hard work and achievments with deep roots in it,but I foresee a gloom feauture for the Armenian comunity here ,as you mentioned above,mostly due to the immigration and the unfortunate destructive mixed marriage which really bleeds my heart,specially now that the Armenians here came out of the war with relatively good reputation which turned the local arabs very agrassive in seeking mariage with armenians ,sad to say lot of young Armenians are succumbing to their persistance.Lebanon is a small country on the international arena with negligible influance,most of the time it is clinching to our Armenian heritage language and culture that keeps us to survive as`a comunity. Besides, not just Maronites but there isnt a single comunity or sect in Lebanon being both Christian or muslim who are not jealous of our achievments,but we learnt how to deal ...and they learnt how to live with that!! Edited December 30, 2003 by mx5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph parikian Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 (edited) I lived in Lebanon from 1965 till 1985 in Bourj Hamoud next to cinema Central I have lots of friends there like Apo Kasabian , Levon Altunian,Apo Nenejian,Sarkis and Boghos Apkarian they oun Central Librery Where do you guys live I have beutiful memories from Lebanon one more thing how old are you my friends Edited December 30, 2003 by joseph parikian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mx5 Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 one more thing how old are you my friends parikian i think that stationary still exist there but to my knowledge the cinema theater isnt there anymore. as for me ,im 44,have a 14 years old son,needless to say happily married to an Armenian lady... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 Welcome Mx5...good to see another more or less my age on the forum (I'm 42 BTW)..with 2 boys a bit younger then yours...So how are you finding the States (you are in the US no? and for how long? And where? LA as most here?)...and you've ben lurking a while...just what is the apeal of this forum to you? Just curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mx5 Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 I am realy sorry to dissapoint you THOTH but im still stuck (more or less intentionaly!!) in my old birthplace Lebanon,this forum is great,lots of good stuff to read,fluent English!!(hope they are as fluent in Armenian language).I/we have been to most of Europe and many other countries but never had the chance to visit states. on the other hand my only suggestion would be:it helps if the country of residance ,state...or so on of the members were shown,with the number of actual members on the forum.In my opinion the American-Armenian is the most viberant community in the diaspora. Keep the good job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 No disapointment Mx5...glad you can join us - from wherever...and its good nes tat te Armenian comuity in Lebanon is still active...I've heard a lot of doom and gloom concerning it (understandably considering what yu all have gone through)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakharar Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 I know that the Armenian community in Lebanon isn't as compact as before which is perfectly understandable considering what they went through. It must be such a strain to live in that precarious situation being a minority with the constant feeling of insecurity lurking behind. To live with that state of mind is unbearable. Isn't it sad, you think you finally belong somewhere, and then everything turns upside down. At least the situation there isn't as dismal as in Jerusalem or Istanbul. My parents left Beirut shortly before the war started (I guess they had feelers!) and after a brief stay in Austria, where I was born, they settled down in the States. I have never been there, but I would love to visit especially since I live (relatively) much closer now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyRoss Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 In my opinion the American-Armenian is the most viberant community in the diaspora. Hi mx5, What do you mean exactly by viberant ? And when you talk about american-armenian community, do you include armenians born in the states only or american-armenians originating from Lebanon, Israël, Iran... and of course Armenia ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakharar Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 It depends how you define vibrancy. In terms of political activism I would totally agree but in other areas this isn't the case at all. In transmitting cultural modes or the language the Armenian American community is rather weak. I think this is the most important thing to concentrate on if we don't want to assimilate within a generation or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarantula Posted December 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 Hi again ! MartyRoss i'm a female call me "kouyrig" Well i'm glad u people know much about the Armenians in Lebanon. Back to what's been said : Well i've never been to Armenia before but i'm planning to go for a visit very soon. I'm sure there's nothing like living where someone belongs, on his/her mother land. But what I mean is that i can't just leave Lebanon and get settled in Armenia, with all the bad news i hear about it and its politics ( i dont wanna get into politics now cs it doesnt interest me and it gives me a headache, but i have a general idea) Plus, Lebanon has given me so much until now i just can't ignore that, if u know what i mean. I feel like it's my mother land too , actually i have a lebanese nationality, like some of u have American nationalities or whatever... It's not the nationality that counts , but after all it's not easy to leave and restart from zero where everything is almost lost ! Let us Armenians get united in our different communities first and then decide to go and build up Armenia ! Maronites didnt handle the idea of us Armenians living on their homeland at first , but then , they didnt have any other choice, and as u know the Armenian wherever he goes , he's a hard worker and that's why we did many achievments as u guys said ! I won't deny that the other sects are not jealous, but not in a general way, because i have so many Lebanese friends who respect me for being an Armenian girl who is so attached to her roots and to their story. They can never say anything wrong about the Armenians or insult them, because i always argue about it and make them understand our real story and the real reason why we arrived to Lebanon , or any other country in the world !!! So now, trust me Armenians are well respected in Lebanon and they have great places in many fields. For example: we have a musician called Guy Manoukian, he's a composer and a great artist! We have many personalities on famous lebanese talk shows like : Nishan Der-Haroutyounian, Zaven Kouyoumdjian , Paula Yakoubian .... they are seen and heard all over the globe on lebanese TVs , u must have heard about them . I won't mention the Armenian Politicians we have because seriously they dont make us that much proud ! At last : Menk gank , ge menank , yev bidi shadanank ! Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mx5 Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 In transmitting cultural modes or the language the Armenian American community is rather weak oops looks ive blundered !!but more seriously,i mean more active in the international stage in deffending Armenian interests,my assumption came from present huge global American political influance and presence in many other forms,and how could the Armenians there' can take advantage of this factors. As for the quote above,i hope it is simply not true.from those friends with whom i ussualy chat in the states I conclude that they have kept there armenian feelings,that to say at least. Another incident was when i saw an article in www.rense.com,it was in form of a survey,quoted from another paper,where it was indicated that more than 45% of Americans spoke other language than English back at there home.the list consisted of some 8-10 languages and ethnic groups on the top of the list came as one could easily predict the Spanish at the bottom end came the Armenian it was estimated that a little more than 200,000(two hundred thousand)speak Armenian at home although they master The English too.now i assumed that if each family includes at least 3 persons that would make not a small number of people who speak armenian !!. Nakharar,Lebanon is still a very nice place,its surge recovery and reconstruction from war was realy ammazing and swift,although it put the country under heavy burden of debt. You say you were born in Austria,nice country, I wonder why you didnt settle there,my two sisters live in Linz since 20 years now ,both married and have children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakharar Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 (edited) Though life in the United States certainly has its advantages things can appear too rosey at times. Being active and succesful in political endevors unfortunately won't be enough to keep the Armenian identity for a long period. I believe we always make the assumption that political success is a substitute for maintaining our Armenian identity. I wish it were that easy. The number of Armenian speakers decreases with every passing generation. I can say that there is large degree of intermarriage among Armenians in the United States. The current of assimilation is very strong unless of course you live in an Armenian enclave like Glendale. I think the situation is the same all over the world. I guess that the Armenians in Lebanon aren't so unlucky as they have many institutions which will preserve the Armenian identity in the future. Lebanon is becoming a popular place right now with all these events and festivals. That billionaire (ex-?) prime minister is also doing a fantastic job in rebuilding the city. If I can find the time I would like to visit Lebanon in the summer. I also don't know why my parents chose to move to the States. They probably couldn't resist the temptation but I can hardly complain and I enjoyed living there. I love Austria it's probably my favourite country of all. I spent my happiest years over there. Though I lived in the States for 18 years I don't feel I belong there. I moved to Frankfurt, Germany after my masters degree where I work in an international financial institution. I regularly visit Austria, but I have never been to Linz. I bet it must awesome there as is the rest of the country. Edited December 31, 2003 by Nakharar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mx5 Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 (edited) Tarantula,there are few facts that one cannot go unnoticed. One factor which have immensly contributed in the change of the local Arabs attitude,hence the world towards us is the Indipendence of Armenia itself,whence we were considered as a mere ethnic group or just another sect like many others in Lebanon,all of the sudden we were transformed into representatives of a nation called Armenia,whence we were laughed at and rediculed in mentioning the name Armenia to the locals,we `were now regarded with respect and serenity. The Karapakh war also helped in its unique way when Armenias name came perpetually in the media. This put the locals specially the Christians in the picture of mass Armenian immigration back to Armenia hence stressing their Isolation even more. IMHO this was the critical turning point of their attitude towards us,and that thought will persist in their mind as long as there is a country called Armenia ready to host us in case of any feature conflict or misstreatment. I remember very well when lebanese Chess team returned from Yerevan Chess Olimpiad couple of years ago,they all gathered around me praising Armenia and congratulating me for such a beautifull country we have. As` for the Armenian culture in Lebanon sad to say that it consist of just a fraction of what it was pre war era,most of the intelectuals are gone and never replaced,sadly the local culture doesnt go beyond a mere Belly-Dancing,and unfortunately we are slipping towards that path. Happy New Year Edited December 31, 2003 by mx5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph parikian Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 (edited) http://www.sellmyhomeandcar.com/images/dashnaks/mesrobianboys1.jpg Beirut 1976 - Armed Armenian units, stationed at Levon & Sophia Hagopian College Memories Memories Memories Edited December 31, 2003 by joseph parikian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Friend Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 I was in northern Israel in 1981 after the Golan Heights were annexed. In any of your views, what did Israel do right {if anything}and in what ways were theywrong when they went into Lebanon six months later. I know I had rockets{Katush as[sp?} fired at my area from time to time. I also met with Christians at the Goo dFence. Educate me. If Israel did alot of wrong things..it is for you to let guys like me know.I'm firm but I'm fair! It pains me because the quote about finaly havin a nation back again and being treated better rings true to me as well.Happy New Year and Peace...I Hope! JF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 Beirut 1976 - Armed Armenian units, stationed at Levon & Sophia Hagopian College Memories Memories Memories What was the deal there? I mean, Armenians claimed neutrality as far as I know, then who had a problem with that and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Friend Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 Check it out. the guy second to the front looks like an early sixties Neil Diamond..JF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 What was the deal there? I mean, Armenians claimed neutrality as far as I know, then who had a problem with that and why? Armenians had to assume their own deffenses, crimes were commited against them, such claims as they were supporting the Jews were made etc... and massacres in the Armenian carter etc... Don't forget that it was a civil war, Armenians could have tried to be as neutral as possible, they still were involved in this without wanting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 Sure, I understand there was a chaotic situation all around. But weren't Armenians attacked on purpose by some groups? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 Sure, I understand there was a chaotic situation all around. But weren't Armenians attacked on purpose by some groups? Could be, you know in a civil war, people force you to get involved, they usually don't like neutral groups... The war was inniciated by actions aiming to start a conflict, like the bombing of the bus full of young soldiers(christians and muslims). Syria as well had advantages in this war, Syria had always an eye on Lebanon, and used the war as pretext to invade. It is a complext situation, and Armenians were more than once victims between many fractions, you must try to satisfy everyone here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph parikian Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 What was the deal there? I mean, Armenians claimed neutrality as far as I know, then who had a problem with that and why? simply defending Armenian proporties and neighborhoods after the collaps of the Lebanies army and police You should have been there to know why they organised armed Armenians No government no security and the Armenians where serounded with all kined of armed groops They where neutral to the point where their survivel was thretend No one knows what Armenians went through those 18 years of civil war unless they where there my friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph parikian Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 Check it out. the guy second to the front looks like an early sixties Neil Diamond..JF My friend i dont know how many of these young men survived I know few of them but i dont know who made it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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