hasmiek Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 hello everyone! i've got a question...I'm in a relationship for about 6 years now, and my parents have allways been ok with me being with an non armenian (odar as we call it) ...but now suddenly they are pushing us to get married. And, of course, get married in the Armenian way. Since my boyfriend doesn't believe in God, he doesn't want to be baptised, which means there will be no marriage in church. My Mom doesn't really accept that, so that's one problem. The other problem is that I don't feel like getting married yet. did some of you guys have simiral problems and if so how can this be solved, chrismas wil be a nightmare with the current atmosphere in mu family!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 Well - if your not ready for marriage - by all means don't get married (I mean shouldn't that be obvious? regardless of pressures and such)...thoguh regarding your boyfriend..if he does indeed become the "one" etc...sometimes one must subvert ones own desires/beliefs or what not to please others (particualrly spouse/future spouse)...if he loves you he should be willing to do this for you and your family...if and when you do get married. Well thats my take on it anyway. And that is if thats what you want. You don't have to get married in a church - you don't have to do anything you don't want..your family will get over it. But consider - that while certainly a marriage and what not is primarily for you - there is an aspect of it being a family event. You will have to weight these various demands - but ultimatly it is your call - you need to do what is best for you (though if you can at allaccomodate the folks and such - why not eh? They have done much for you in your life - so perhaps it is not a bad thing to give them a little something back) Anyway - good luck - and try not to let these things spoil your holidays. Talk it out a bit first - be concillatory and say your thinking about it (and imply that maybe a little less pressur emight be a good thing)...etc etc Hope that helps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 Live your own life. For one thing, they're pushing for marriage. To make it worse, they want it their way. I mean, you've got financial independence, right? So yawn and say yeah yeah... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasmiek Posted December 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 yeah i'm finanially indepentent, but my mom is even interrupting with that: i'm after a PHD position, but my parent are REALLY against that, because i'm 28 and should think about having children and buying a house. I have lived my own life, moved out at 18, travelled, have done everything I wanted (at least tried to), but now it seems that my whole family has had it or something. thankfully my big brother is still with me. Maybe it's selfish, but i'm the only one who leads my life so I figure that I get to make the decisions. anyways, about the churchwedding, I see what yout point of view is TOTH, but still...at first I thought about it the same way, he should just do it for me, but I do understand his point of view now. He doesn't believe in God in anyway, so getting baptised would be a very hypocrit thing to do. I think this is quite a difficult issue...thanks for the advice anyways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 (edited) Hey Hasmiek, Well, I thought I'd reply to this, even though I might not be adding anything new to what the others said... but still.. so... yeah, I may not be old enough to be experienced in things like that, but I DO know one thing (and that IS from experience), that one should govern one's own life, make the choices one wants.. well, there's a difference between not doing what your parents want and disrespecting them - it is by no means a bad thing to do your own thing.. You're an adult, and I believe that parents should have no say in their children's lives once they are old enough to decide for themselves... yeah, you can ask for advice, etc., but you have no obligation whatsoever to marry in church or to marry now or whenever THEY want you to... especially that you are financially independent (if you were financially dependent, that would be another thing).. But I say go for whatever you feel is right - if you feel that you need more time, then do that.. And have you talked with your b/f about this? (I'm sure you've discussed it), but it also helps to tell him what you just said to us (if you haven't done so already)... hmm.. I don't know if that makes any sense.. but the bottom line is: don't let your parents make you feel guilty (not saying that they are or aren't, but I know how many Armenian parents do that, mine included), and cause you to do (or not do) things you might regret later on in your life. That's all I can say.... And good luck.. Edited December 15, 2003 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ME5 Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 Well first you have to realise life is full of comprimises. Yes you're an adult,yes you live your own life,yes you're on your way to getting your PHD,a very big deal,and good foryou! But no man is an island.You have a family who has taken care of you,loved you,put up with you,cried for you etc. I am an Armenian parent,the things we want for our kids are not bad things.Getting married in a church is not punishment.And if you don't do it I guarantee you you will regret it.I have been through a lot and I know a lot of people and chances are you will regret it Your b/f is with someone who is Armenian and who believes in God,I'm assuming here.If you get married you will probably have children ,there will be christenings to plan there will be religious holidays to get through.What then?It may not be a big deal to you know,but if you are religious in any way,there will be issues later on.Now is the time to set the tone. And anyways it does not sound like you want to get married,so these are non issues right now. Don't wait too long though,you dont' know what the future holds for you or for your b/f or for your family.If it's impossible,well then it is impossible. If you just don't feel like it,look into why you don't.You just might find some big a$$ reasons why you don't feel like it. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 Ironic/interesting how ppl have different problems and issues. I would love to have my girls parents okay with me being an odar. I'd get baptized and married in the Armenian church as well, but for me it's not even an option. Weird, i'd love to be in your bf's position basically. I guess that's how it goes, you never really get what you want, until something else would stop you from having it. I'd just discuss the matter with your man, because he has a chance to be willingly accepted into a culture that doesn't always do so. Just tell him there are people like me on the outside looking in, that would love to be where he is at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 He doesn't believe in God in anyway, so getting baptised would be a very hypocrit thing to do. sounds like a poor excuse to me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 (edited) sounds like a poor excuse to me.... I agree with you, what is the problem of marrying in a church and getting baptised in it? I mean, if he don't believe in God, who cares? And plus getting maried in a church is romantic, isen't it? I think the guy is making a big story over a little thing, I mean, getting baptised won't make him change his view or won't change anything in his life, will it? Edited December 15, 2003 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 ....maybe the guy doesnt want to get married and using the baptism thing as an excuse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheekY Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 I agree with you, what is the problem of marrying in a church and getting baptised in it? I mean, if he don't believe in God, who cares? And plus getting maried in a church is romantic, isen't it? I think the guy is making a big story over a little thing, I mean, getting baptised won't make him change his view or won't change anything in his life, will it? i was gonna say that! lol if he truly doesn't believe in God why should he worry or feel guilty about being "baptized" or getting married in a church? it's not like he's gonna betray his religion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 One comment: Not being a Jew does not mean that I don't mind getting married in a synagogue (if Jews get married in synagogues anyway - you get my point). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 One comment: Not being a Jew does not mean that I don't mind getting married in a synagogue (if Jews get married in synagogues anyway - you get my point). who is the lucky m......w.......person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 who is the lucky m......w.......person? what are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Dear Hasmiek .... great to see you back!!! Two things ... my .02 if you will ... for whatever it's worth 1) Marriage is a commitment and union between you and him. You declare to each other a life-long commitment ... accept each other for better or worse etc etc. I don't think it is right to put (force) conditions on the union. If he doesn't want to be baptised and a church wedding, then you should respect that. More importantly, your parents should respect that. I understand his position. If he gives in now, he becomes a pawn in your mom's game of controlling the union. And that is probably something that he doesn't want ... now this baptism/wedding thing itself may be a non-issue in the long run. But you (both of you) have to have a heart-to-heart talk and figure out where your background, traditions, and parental wishes is going to fit in your future union. If there are kids that come into play, then things will get much more complicated. They will be torn between traditional wishes of the grandparents and his views. In the end, you two have to decide on your shared vision and now is the time to do it. If he is not willing to play by the traditional Armenian rules, then that is his option ... so the question is ... what do YOU want. 2) About the Ph.D. ... tough question ... I would strongly encourage you to give it a lot more thought (I knew you were thinking about it) ... it will be much more complicated to come back to do that in the future. You are still very young but 4 or 5 years in this part of life is not "light" commitment. The only advise I can give you is that if you do decide to go for it, go for it ALL the way with all your heart. If you do it "half assed" then you will surely regret in the future. In other words, you have a choice to make and I am encouraging you to make that choice one way or the other. Going half way in between is asking for trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Seap jan such moving words… Nothing like religion to stir up the waters, as usual.Sounds to me exactly like the primitive case of “If you love me you’ll sleep with me” the answer I recommend in this case is “If YOU love me you will wait your horny ass”, now draw a parallel, same concept. Hasmik weight out your options on the scale of reason (not to make any hasty decisions you might regret or blame your parents and yourself for listening to them) and see which one is heavier. The heaviest one wins, it’s much more constructive to make a list of pros and cons, that way things have a much clearer way of presenting themselves. Listen to what you want, since you are going to live with your decisions. Besides I am a sole believer that there is nothing you can do in life that you cannot correct later, that is why we are given 80 years + (well a little less in my case, since I'm a smoker) to change our mind. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Perhaps symbolically church is a deeper validation of union between two souls. Personally I dislike atheists I find them selfish me,me,me and always me and me.God is the idea of other… I could not live with an atheist. Sorry Hasmik I know my personal irreverent comments does not add much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Hasmik please invite him here and Domino, Sasun and I will make him a believer.There is no other outcome to expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Hasmik please invite him here and Domino, Sasun and I will make him a believer.There is no other outcome to expect. and ok ok, kidding... but for making him a believer.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 I am an atheist and I am NOT me, me, me. Hasmik, I think it's best to finish something you've started - the Ph.D., that is. Children can wait a few more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 I am an atheist and I am NOT me, me, me. Yes an unfounded generalization...I mean what if i claimed that (I thought) all believers were just stupid fools? By what i believe (or don't) - I would have reason to reach this conclusion...but I dont' generalise.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 I am an atheist and I am NOT me, me, me. Ditto. As for kids, PhD - well, I guess it depends on whichever you feel is the right thing for you at this moment - if you REALLY feel like you want to do that PhD, then go for it - but like Sip said, it would be a good idea to finish it once you start it. As for kids, I don't know - maybe you should talk about that with your b/f and see what he thinks about it - maybe he doesn't want kids right now. Bottom line is, it all depends on your choices and decisions, your mutual agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Hasmik please invite him here and Domino, Sasun and I will make him a believer.There is no other outcome to expect. The guy is already a believer, he don,t believe in a god, he believe to the non-existance of a god. This is a believe. I don't see the problems about the children(refering to Sip comments). The children could be baptized, and if later they grow up and don't believe in God, would them having been baptized change anything at all? Lets the guy suppose that he is getting baptized as a believer of the non-existance of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 The baptism issue reminds me of the movie, My Big Fat Greek Wedding ~~ and the godmother. For most of us atheists, resisting anything that has to do with religion has become a big deal - so I sympathize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 The baptism issue reminds me of the movie, My Big Fat Greek Wedding ~~ and the godmother. For most of us atheists, resisting anything that has to do with religion has become a big deal - so I sympathize. Oh yes, a very good example/satire of family pressure is My Big Fat Greek Wedding... in the end, really, it doesn't matter much (the guy didn't mind being baptised), but it just shows the closed-mindedness of families and cultures.. i don't know... i personally wouldn't want to get baptised in another church or in any church at all, being an atheist.. so you can't just say that all atheists don't mind being baptised.. i don't know.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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