Sip Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 So Dan, what you are saying is that the "live and breath by the Word of God, and walk by the Spirit of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" doesn't fully apply to you? NOTE: I didn't start this thread. It was split from something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 (edited) no, i'm not saying that... i'm saying that 1) i don't believe in God, but I have no problem with Christianity 2) i've had a Christian education 3) i never go to church 4) you know what i mean, i'm not gonna talk about that. i'm talking about not doing the things the Armenian church thinks are right and fit for all "good" Christians to do. Edited December 7, 2003 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 In the 1960's I was involved in the civil rights movement. I believed that all persons were entitled to basic rights. At that young age I had no inkling that I had any gay attributes.. This is typically how bis differ from gays who know this at a young age (bis usually realize this in their late 20's-a statistic which gives impetus to the genetic cause argument). When I was outed by a woman who felt I jilted her (which was a figment of her sick mind, as I was only a work acquaintance), I was in a relationship with another woman. I could not believe how much hatred I received from Black people, for whose rights I had worked so hard. Ditto from the Latinos. The Anglos and Jews were a more mixed bag, some not at all concerned others creating problems for me. Now due to Israei situation the Jews are binding with the fundamentalist Christians. At this rate I may become a racial and religious bigot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 America-Hye, I didn't know you're bi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Dan, I have changed my moniker two times. My first moniker, the title given my great-grandfather by the Turks elicited so much hostility from members here that I changed it to the Armenian name my parents gave me. That moniker also elicited negative comments from the forum members, so I changed it again. You probably know me by one of my previous monikers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 I know who you were previously (or I think I do...), but I still didn't know about what I said above. I don't understand people who attack others based on such things... oh well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Dan, What things, please clarify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 (edited) A lot of things... such as - when the oppressed become oppressors.. Edit note: e.g.: blacks vs. queer people... Edited December 9, 2003 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Statistically 81% of Black people do not believe that people with alternative sexuality should have equal rights. The next highest number is Latinos at 65%. The oppressed have the highest numbers of those who want to oppress others. Studies have shown that AIDS is highest in these two communities. Something not in sync here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Statistically 81% of Black people do not believe that people with alternative sexuality should have equal rights. The next highest number is Latinos at 65%. The oppressed have the highest numbers of those who want to oppress others. Studies have shown that AIDS is highest in these two communities. Something not in sync here. Wouldn't that make them hypocrites? Hmmm, I mean, I haven't seen all that much racism against black people in the queer community, whereas the other way around, it's HUGE.. I believe the AIDS numbers are higher for the black communities, if you consider Africa as well... Surely all those Africans who have AIDS are not gay? I don't know - those who say that AIDS is gay people's punishment, that just doesn't work with the fact that more black people have it than gay people do.. that is the problem I have with Christianity and all other religions. The only reason I don't consider myself part of any organized religion is that I refuse to be part of an institution that tells me I'm going to hell because of who I love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 i thought the thread was relevant to the religion forum.......... the website help question was fit for the Help forum though... and this was moved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 The original thread could belong to both religion and help. What it became had little to do with religion, so I moved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 ok, but i disagree. we were talking about homosexuality w.r.t religion... anyhow............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 ok, but i disagree. we were talking about homosexuality w.r.t religion... anyhow............ OK Dan, I moved it back to the religion section (in order not to hurt your religious feelings and make you cry ) happy now ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 lol. very happy indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 NOTE: I didn't start this thread. It was split from something else. good point Sip, sorry I didn't realize it might look like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 good point Sip, sorry I didn't realize it might look like that what's wrong with starting a thread that might develop into a discussion on homosexuality? talking about it doesn't make you one, you know.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Several years ago I had a conversation along these lines with a black co-worker. He was extremely anti-Homosexual...and I was flabbergasted as I felt that he - being a great believer in (racial) minority rights - would feel the same about anyone who was discriminated against - etc. Well aparently not - and absolutley not. His response was that basically he wasborn black and had no choice - where he saw homosexuality as a choice and a bad one...or some such - so in no way could he even think of homosexual rights in any way as racial minority rights. Its just blew me away really - as I see no difference - to me the principal is the same - everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect - regardless...etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 His response was that basically he wasborn black and had no choice - where he saw homosexuality as a choice and a bad one.And how can he prove that homosexuality is a choice? People who come up with such arguments are just ignorant IMO, not 'cos I'm gay and don't agree with them, but because they can't provide any proof whatsoever to base their arguments on, and still stubbornly insist that they are right. And how anyone can say that black rights rate higher than gay rights, I don't understand.. Rights are rights. It doesn't matter if it's a choice or if it can't be helped.. Who I want to get married to is no one's business, as long as I have the right to. It's not that black guy's business. And what HE does and who he gets married to is none of MY business. And I'm not saying that the church should be forced to marry me to another man. There are churches that do bless gay marriages, and I can go and get married there. No one is forcing anything on anyone. I just want to have the right to do whatever I want, even if I might not use that right. Same goes with black people, same goes with everyone else. That's why I take part in rallies against police brutality and racism. I am not black, and I can't really say I've been harassed due to racism. But I know that it's wrong to demand rights for minorities and then once one acquires those rights, stand up and talk against another minority group, using the freedom for which many gay people fought alongside one's ancestors.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Dan understood. And even though I'm not gay I fully support your struggle as i do with any who are unjustly oppressed or hated for just being who they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Yes lots of blacks have negative views on gays, passed down from generations you know. I personally abhor this thought and think it's stupid. It's also prevelant in the armenian community as well, besides this board, which is relative a 'safe' haven no armenians I know can say that they have even 'heard' of a gay armenian. Not to say that they aren't or that you can't sometimes tell, but that's tough. I have a close, and I mean very close person in my life who is gay so that's not an issue. For you two how are, how have you dealt, or have you dealt with your orienation within the Hye community? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 (edited) sev-mard, for me, it's a don't-ask-don't-tell thing.. My mom terrorized me into silence. My aunt is a total homophobe who tells me that all gay people should be burned.. she doesn't know I'm gay. She will never know. Not that I want to show my sexuality to everyone, but it's tough to have a relationship and come and go with no one suspecting, and that's why I almost always out myself to those who know me, in order to be at ease around them, or not be around them at all, whichever the case may be, depending on their reaction.. But it's different with family and close family friends. My mom and grandma know. My mom became a religious fanatic after she was told that I was gay... My grandma almost died of a heart attack. I was silenced after that, and I don't know how their reasoning works, but they think that if I don't talk about it, or if I don't go out with men, I'm not gay anymore... So I don't go out anymore, to satisfy my mom and grandma. One day I will leave home when I have the means to, but right now I am financially dependent on my mom... My stepdad, on the other hand, is totally cool with it, whereas my mom keeps threatening to kick me out if I "start again"... One of my relatives got married to a guy, and the guy left her cos it turned out he was pressured into marriage by his parents, as he was gay and his parents found out about it... and my mom has hated gay people ever since. It's impossible to tell Armenian friends. It's just something I can't even think about - they all have so many "expectations" of me. They've known me since I was a kid, or so they tell me, and they ask me all the time if I have a g/f, etc. and what am I supposed to tell them? That I'm gay? They would leave and never come back. Not that I care, but for my mom's sake, I can't do it. And sometimes it becomes an issue of personal safety as well - I'm on an Armenian basketball team, and if the guys find out, I'm dead meat... For me, nothing is worse than sitting in the subway train and all of a sudden hearing a coupla high school kids talking in Armenian about gays and saying how they're sick and calling them "fags"... Yeah, I'm proud of being Armenian, but I don't think there's a place for me in the Armenian community as a gay man, and I don't want to force myself on others - if they don't like who I am, it's fine, I could leave and not be part of their community.. Maybe there's something wrong with me, maybe that's why I don't go to the Armenian students' association at university, because I feel like I don't fit in.. Maybe.. I don't know.. I've never met any other gay Armenians, even though I'm sure they're somewhere out there.. I guess I have to be glad I'm not in Armenia where gay people are imprisoned or whatever, but my reality is mine and it's still painful, maybe not comparable to others' realities, but still... Edited December 9, 2003 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Dan understood. And even though I'm not gay I fully support your struggle as i do with any who are unjustly oppressed or hated for just being who they are. How about geek rights and struggles? When are we geeks going to be accepted in society as normal functioning members and not laughed at and osctracized? Just joking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 I feel you Dan, it's a tough struggle. In Life we all have some, yours is a great one, but your Life can be fulfilling and enjoyable nonetheless. It helps to have family and friend support, but if not, you must find inner strength and i'm sure it's in there. You seem like a good guy. peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Friend Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 I had no idea you were gay Dan , only that Amer-Hye was bi . Cool daddio! I like diversity. JF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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