Minorities, Religion, Etc.

[Dan]

I had no idea you were gay Dan , only that Amer-Hye was bi . Cool daddio! I like diversity. JF

lol. And I had no idea America-Hye was bi, until a coupla hrs ago. It's all good..

[Sip]

I feel you Dan ...

I still have no idea what that means and I don't want to know either.

[Dan]

I feel you Dan, it's a tough struggle. In Life we all have some, yours is a great one, but your Life can be fulfilling and enjoyable nonetheless. It helps to have family and friend support, but if not, you must find inner strength and i'm sure it's in there.

Hey sev-mard. Thanks.. It's good to know that there are open-minded and positive people out there. It often helps, especially when we're alone out there.. however trivial saying "I'm supportive" may sound to people, it means a lot. I can safely say that a few supportive words have helped me A LOT through the struggle of being outed, and even in accepting myself for who I am.

 

Strangers have helped me more than family and friends have through this struggle, and I am grateful for them and for people like you. Without them I wouldn't have been here right now.

[sev-mard]

Always got jokes don't cha Seap? Edited December 10, 2003 by sev-mard

[ED]

I still have no idea what that means and I don't want to know either.

vay Seapan du demq es tgha

 

Dan how do you know you are not straight? And were your father when you were growing up? Perhaps you can share that also with us?

You are cool dude no worries.

[Jewish Friend]

Since we are on the religious thread I have a question. Why does the Church go down so hard on gays when Jesus himself was a forgiving Rabbi. That is what seperated Jesus from other Rabbi's, they, like today's Orthodox and Roman Catholic and most Protestant churches and Orthodox Jews..condemn being gay BUT Jesus was cool about it and said no one should be judged. He would have hung with Dan and the crew{me included}. ? Am I crazy or is the Church UNJesus in this sense? JF

[Dan]

Dan how do you know you are not straight?

Hmmm.. It's hard to put it into words. I guess I'm just not attracted to women. I don't know.. I mean, I like women and all that, most of my friends are female, but I don't like them sexually..

 

And were your father when you were growing up?

He died when I was a kid..

 

You are cool dude no worries.

 

Edit: Speaking of marriage and being gay and all that - I held a 6 month old baby the other day, and it was the best feeling in the world.. I can't imagine what it would be like to hold your own baby in your arms. I don't know if that will ever happen to me, but I'm sure that those who have had the opportunity to would say that it was just amazing.

Edited December 10, 2003 by Dan

[Sip]

Why does the Church go down so hard on gays ...

As much as I can't resist making a stupid comment about that, , I think you raise a very valid point. The behavior of the christian church hasn't necessarily been in-line with the teachings of Jesus and the turn the other cheek mentality.

 

That's why I personally appreciate Jesus as a person and mentor a lot more than the "church" as an institution. Although I personally wouldn't turn any cheeks when the "gay" issue is concerend. Ok another stupid joke I had to get out of my system ... but I personally would not condone the gay lifestyle as that is none of my business.

 

However, I do think the church should be allowed to set guidelines for membership. They shouldn't "come down hard" on certain lifestyles, but if that lifestyle is not in line with the requirements of the church, then the church should be free to not be forced to be inclusive. It's a two-way game ... no pun intended.

 

Point: Church shouldn't come down hard on gays and gays shouldn't expect to be part of church if the church doesn't want them like that.

[Dan]

JF, there are a lot of religious groups out there, some of which believe that all gays will go to hell, some of which say that Jesus is forgiving, but that homosexuality is still wrong, and some of which accept gays..

 

the bible is usually interpreted literally by all those groups, but the main argument that goes against them is that you can't interpret one verse literally and interpret the other one (stoning, etc.) metaphorically, which is what the Catholic church is doing. I am not religious and what I know from the bible may not be accurate, as it was quite a long time ago that I last took a christianity course at school, so I wouldn't try to quote from the bible, but i've talked with a few religious ppl from different "groups", and this is what I've understood... again, i may be wrong..

[Dan]

Church shouldn't come down hard on gays and gays shouldn't expect to be part of church if the church doesn't want them like that.

Sip, I agree with you, but not totally - there are chuches that accept gays and bless gay marriages.. so that is not a justification for not giving gay people their right to get married. if a specific church refuses to bless/conduct a gay marriage, they're free to refuse, but they should not prevent others who are positive about it to go ahead and support gay people.

[Vayri7X]

quick note to Dan or other q-hyes and on gender/race/religion/sexuality

Don't know where ya lives, have you heard of AGLA or Q-Hye? Well, they have alot to say about being queer & hye ( with all teh religou s, cultural stuff etc) and also true to yourself. i wrote this cuz ya said you haven't met other gay /bi or geneally queer armenians. also have alot of events - all the chapters in ny, was, bsoton, and CA ( especially the san fran chapter)

 

there are also priests - who are non-judmental - this is word of mouth- including the time and place of certain events and the "hang-outs" to avoid the bashers..

 

 

there *is* a place for you in the community. Do not give up, jaan!

 

As for the mentions of race here- PUH-LEEZE ! you are compeltely invalidating the experiences of queer Balcks, LAtinos , Natives and Asians *and* their experience w/ religion. It is not a simple matter. There is a long history in these communities of out people being accepted and fully integrated into the communities.

 

and boy almighty- is there ever racism in the gay white community! ya'll just don't know! if not made invisible ( which was proved) then exoticized. q-hyes can get this too. Oh an dBTW- there is a category of fetishizing by non-armos ( queer and het) regarding armos or other quote " exo-tic " folx . duh.

 

Have you ever thought that ppl were saying this- especially men- b/c they found thier *own* masculinites threatened by racist rhetoric? i.e., the idea of of a "matriarchal" Black culture that was/is pathologized by outsiders as unhealthy 'cause it doesn;t fit a nuclear model?

Or the feeelingof being under siege - having to think about your manhood and race all in once every day and never getting a break from it? ?

the constant crap by right-wingers on the "missing black father "? the false image of the welfare queen?

 

As to religion, well,,, Black and LAtinos have done alot in establishing gay-friendly networks of pastors, priests, rabbis, Imamsand so on.

 

think!! well... i guess some got the "privilege " of not having to...

[Dan]

Vayri,

 

Don't know where ya lives, have you heard of AGLA or Q-Hye?

i live in Toronto.. and yes, I've heard of AGLA, GALAS, and Q-Hye... There is a group called Queer-Hye here in Toronto, but I'm not sure how many people there are, and they don't have a website or anything like that... The number of Armenian people in Toronto is really low, and then number of gay Armenians would probably not be enough to have an organized group.

 

you are compeltely invalidating the experiences of queer Balcks, LAtinos , Natives and Asians *and* their experience w/ religion

i think we're all talking about majorities. true, there are positive Muslims, Catholics, Jews, and Blacks out there, and a lot of people find it very easy to come out, etc., but the majority of them don't.

 

and boy almighty- is there ever racism in the gay white community!

i don't know about elsewhere, but here in Toronto, the gay "village" being 80% chinese, 10% indian, and 10% white, black, etc., we don't see much racism from the white side. and no, i'm not saying this cos i'm white.. there is a sort of reverse racism.. i don't know, but that has been my experience. it seems to me that black people are full of more hatred than white people...

 

there are also priests - who are non-judmental

yeah, but not in the Armenian church.. i mean, i don't care about whose church it is, if i'm gonna believe, i'm not gonna believe in the church, but still, religion is institutionalized, and sometimes we DO need something to cling to, and more often than not, the church lets us down. there is a church here in downtown toronto, and the priests are very queer positive. i've never taken the step to go there.. maybe i'm not ready yet. or maybe i'm just not religious and don't want to be..