Accelerated Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 I dont think it was a total failure and it may have survived had it not been for external pressure and agitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Well in the US in the 70s at least the TVs worked...etc etc... Accel - as much as I appreciate your sentiment...the USSR (despite its various achievemnets) was basically an anti-humanastic failure...and I just can't accept a totalitarian atate - with the aparatus of such as benign...and regadless of its faults...the West is the clear choice....there is no real issue - sorry...and you (pampered rich kid! LOL)...really have no business claiming otherwise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Accel - just to clarify - I wasn't bashing any state at all. My rant was against these spoiled, ungrateful brats who have NO idea how good they got it - the sheer opportunity they have HERE - yet they sit there belittling the US (or any western state for that matter). The irony is baffling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 For that matter - and you guys who know me, know this - I'm not necessarily pro-American either. But I can definitely see how much better off I am living in Canada, than all the other (potentially awful) possibilities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Well in the US in the 70s at least the TVs worked...etc etc... Wow! The TV worked, is that all the great THOTH has to offer!? the West is the clear choice....there is no real issue - sorry...and you (pampered rich kid! LOL)... I maybe pampered, but if I were rich you know what I would be driving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Accel...the TV was just an example..indicative of at least one aspect of the problem...and there are many other examples...And I for one (like our dear Sip) just love all my techno toys! What can i say...I'm a consumerist/materialist etc all the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 And I for one (like our dear Sip) just love all my techno toys! What can i say...I'm a consumerist/materialist etc all the way!But it's not just the "toys". It's being rewarded for efforts ... it's having a reason to excel and be good at something ... it's the entire "potential" that exists to make AMAZING things happen... to basically go from 0 (which is basically where we started as a family when we arrived in the US in early 90's) to something a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggyWiggy Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 being pampered is one thing... but not having a childhood in the states is another... honestly, i have not known any kid in Los Angeles, New York City, Miami, Chicago, Detroit, and etc places ive been to who have had a childhood which should be the correct way. A childs job is to play with other kids, and out here, the conditions are too bad to play out on the streets. All my friends want to do is go to the mall! i want to play street games! Plus, if you want to compare the soviet and US governments, the soviets gave their citizens whatever they needed, because the country worked like that, in US, its with money.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 honestly, i have not known any kid in Los Angeles, New York City, Miami, Chicago, Detroit, and etc places ive been to who have had a childhood which should be the correct way.Once again it shows how absolutely spoiled to the core you are! I grew up in Iran ... we left when I was 13. Ever since I remember there was a war going on. Every so often, we had bombs and missiles dropped on our heads in Tehran. One of those misiles landed about a block from our house. One landed in the University where my Dad was teaching ... fortunately at 4AM. My mom was under constant harassement because she was a christian female doctor and wasn't technically allowed to treat male patients. We had to picket in front of our "Armenian" school to let the dumb ass government allow us to keep the schools going and not be forced to teach "Arabic" (i.e. Koran) more than 2 hours a week ... what was the price? The price was that our Armenian classes were cut from 2 hours a day to 2 hours a week as well. We had weekly and monthly "bomb" drills just like you have your woosy fire drills once in a while here. We were thought how what to do in case of a chemical attack ... mostly for our morale as there is nothing much you can do. There was no music, no movies, no dancing, NOTHING on TV other than what the government deemed appropriate ... which most often included a bunch of mullahs sitting around and interpretting the Koran. You think I was able to "go out on the streets"? You think my parents would allow a young christian minority kid to go and hang around with the street "lakots"? I am not even going to start on doing homework in the dark under a candle due to constant power outages ... no running water at times ... having to stand hours in line to buy bread ... meat if lucky other than the rations each family was being assigned etc etc DUDE ... what childhood? ... Grow the f*ck up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 (edited) Sorry to hear about that Sip, but I am of the opinion (derived from observation) that kids had a better childhood/were happier in Armenia (during Soviet times) compared to Aussie kids NOW - this is just an observation. I had a reasonably good childhood considering the circumstances - moving out of Armenia at 11 with no english, so I have nothing to complain about. Mind you, I sort of had an 'Armenian' childhood here, as we lived in a block of flats with a lot of migrant families like ourselves and most of their kids would come downstairs to play like in Armenia. Edited December 5, 2003 by Accelerated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 I dont think it was a total failure and it may have survived had it not been for external pressure and agitation. accel, please... The USSR was in fact a total failure. The posts above you've put are very ridiculous. The whole system of USSR was made up corruption and bribary wherever you went. You're talking about healthcare being free when in fact you had to bribe the doctors, nurses, and the whole health clinic to get some kind of care. And you'd just wish that the doctor treating you had some kind of education, because his medical diploma might have been bought. Comparing the housing in USSR to Europe's housing is likely a mistake. The reason so many people died in the 1988 earthquake was of faulty housing. The houses weren't adequately built. Everything was rushed and cheated out of. My grandma's 5 story apartment building (built in the 1960's) just sank during the earthquake while the apartment building in which we were staying didn't suffer any damage because it'd been built in the 1920's. Both of my parents are professionals. My mom worked as a piano teacher in the music school, and my dad worked as an editor for three newspapers. Yet because they were honest people and didn't have it in them to cheat the system like everybody else was doing our family barely could live normally. The pay was very little and our family had to rely on the support of my grandparents. (An example of how my mom could have cheated the system: give the students passing grades at exams in exchange of gifts or money, or refuse to accept new students into the music school by first claiming that it was full and then hinting at wanting money.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggyWiggy Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 accel, please... The USSR was in fact a total failure. The posts above you've put are very ridiculous. The whole system of USSR was made up corruption and bribary wherever you went. You're talking about healthcare being free when in fact you had to bribe the doctors, nurses, and the whole health clinic to get some kind of care. And you'd just wish that the doctor treating you had some kind of education, because his medical diploma might have been bought. Comparing the housing in USSR to Europe's housing is likely a mistake. The reason so many people died in the 1988 earthquake was of faulty housing. The houses weren't adequately built. Everything was rushed and cheated out of. My grandma's 5 story apartment building (built in the 1960's) just sank during the earthquake while the apartment building in which we were staying didn't suffer any damage because it'd been built in the 1920's. Both of my parents are professionals. My mom worked as a piano teacher in the music school, and my dad worked as an editor for three newspapers. Yet because they were honest people and didn't have it in them to cheat the system like everybody else was doing our family barely could live normally. The pay was very little and our family had to rely on the support of my grandparents. (An example of how my mom could have cheated the system: give the students passing grades at exams in exchange of gifts or money, or refuse to accept new students into the music school by first claiming that it was full and then hinting at wanting money.) and exactly what is the US system based on? Do you really think that america and the whole world works on (starts laughing) an HONEST way... It is even more corrupt. Friends put Friends where they want to be, and Money buys everything... Cmon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 (edited) Piggy, don't even dare comparing the United States with the Soviet. I know that the U.S. is not perfect but making such irresponsible comments without much thought is inexcusable. Edited December 5, 2003 by anoushik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggyWiggy Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 there is no need for excuses when it is the truth... nothing good ever lasts, and as corrupt as it may have been it brought the world to order, and balance... Why should i not compare the two systems? they are the two most popular systems in the world, and they need to be compared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 "the truth" |<------------------------------------- light years ----------------------------------------->| "Piggy" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggyWiggy Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 I dont care Sip... that is your opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 It is even more corrupt. Friends put Friends where they want to be, and Money buys everything...Next time you get a speeding ticket ... I dare you to try to slip some money to the judge to dismiss your ticket. Or don't even wait till then ... just try to slip the cop who is writing you the ticket some money. Next time one of your family members needs a permit to add a room to his house ... go down to the wherever it is they give out permits and see if your theory of "money buys everything" works like it used to work in your beloved soviet How can you possibly claim US is more "corrupt" and expect ANYONE to take you seriously other than other disillusioned commie comrads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggyWiggy Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 lol u bet it does! however, there are CERTAIN limits... if you are rich, hell, you can do a lot of things here... That is where lawyers come in, your lawyer is good if he is friends with the judge...Friendship is the key... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 No one is saying US is perfect. We are just saying your claims that it is more corrupt or most corrupt or even too corrupt is just EXTREMELY rediculous. Anyway ... back to work for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggyWiggy Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 good luck on your job I dont say US is the most corrupt, but yeah man, its up there, top 10 id say... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 anoush, i dont have time to reply in detail to your post at this time....will try to adress later. Suffice to say I dont agree - there was corruption, but not as significant as you think IMO.... Anyhow, I gotto jet cao. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSipanxX Posted December 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 hey guys, MY FAMILY WAS THERE. So im sorry to say but for all of you who are telling me to ''open'' my eyes know very little. The people who tell me this are pro capitalists. again with the rich fathers and their business. All i know is that the only thing that can save armenian americans in Armenia is their money. Or else youd get your ass kicked talking like that on the street. period. I wont be suprised if most of you that are against me are either 1) Lebanese Armenian and 2) Pro Capitalist Dashnags. Its the truth... And Accelerated just proved it to you and he/she is not even a communist. WE think its time for you to open your hearts and not your friggin wallets. Your rich daddy aint always right just because he got you a new mercedes on your sweet 16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel4hope Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 first of all--when i first replied to your post and had a disagreeing view it was not because i am a "capitalist" as you put it..im am neither a dashnak nor a lebanese armenian..and nore did my "daddy buy me a new mercedes on my sweet 16" as you put it....just because one disagrees with your views doesnt mean you have to go on saying things like that learn to be open minded...and come on grow up dude--were not in kindergarten here to be picking on each other--just shareing views and ideas and through the prigress learning from one another....lighten up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahumyan Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 First off, Comrade Sipan,Although i am with you that the Armenian SSR was more progressive than present day, i do not agree with you with the Lebanese statement, although there are a lot of pro-capitalists in Lebanon, let us not forget why. because of their emigre "leaders" ie the Fascist Dashnakstutyan Party. We should not blame our fellow workers, but we should, as lenin said "patiently explain" our position, and discuss.We wont get anywhere by shooting everyone! We simply have to be the most knowledgable we can possibly be, and when the workers are in crisis, we should be there to patiently explain. There was about a 1001 tangents in this thread:). It would be interesting if we opened a seperate thread for each point to discuss over. I would enjoy discussing points with the people here As for the American system being corrupt, look at the lobbying system, its disgustingly corrupt. If you open a thread on it, i will show you facts. Im currently studying American Politics at school, so i can bring up a few facts, it would be goodif you could try and counter them maybe? The corruption in America may not be as frequent as was in USSR, but a lot more money is used, and they are used in much more important things (Arms deal contracts) than for speeding tickets. Not to say speeding tickets are not important, all corruption is vile. Anyway, looking forward to following posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 There is much that is subjective in comparint the USSR to the US. For many people comfortable life is more important than ideaology, for some people ideaology and morals are more important than having a color TV that works. The fact is that many people would prefer to move to the US from the Soviet Union, but I hardly know anyone who would want to do the opposite.In all fairness, there were some good things in Soviet Armenia, like safety in the street, true friendship, morals, guarantee of work, no homeless people at all, etc. But as a child I hated having to be a pioneer or having to do this and that, and being forbiddedn to do this and that. I think it is all subjective. We should not blame our fellow workers, but we should, as lenin said "patiently explain" our position, and discuss.That's a good point. However, when in the end your patience runs out and nobody wants to buy your ideology, just stop explaining rather than taking up to do a revolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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