DominO123 Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 However, the Universe is NOT as magical as it seems and it definitely is not "infinitely" complex (although it may be infinitely large according to all our practical scales). The Universes should be at the very least as misterious and as magical as consciencenous, so in fact the Universe is misterious and magical, a LOT more than computers, the Universe will grow more and more, and become more and more complex as we ivolve, because we will every time complexify it even more, more we understand it, in the cases of the computer, we do make it more complex ourself. Hey! What I just did? Well, I answered now, because I realised that your post will permit me to explain my theory. Have I said that humans make computers more complex? What about intelligence makes the Universe more complex, by our expectations and understandings? We are modifying and complexifying the Universes, like we do with computers... Intelligent being are part in the design of the Universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 This is my new theory called: "A Bank of Gods" Each one carries a particle of God in them. Their own God is undefined, it means something sacred to us, something that we should hold as our sanctuary. It is God in us that keeps our ambitions alive, and gives us limitless power in what we aspire to achieve. It gives us strength and purpose of our existence. However many make the mistake of investing their own God in something or someone else. Whether it is your partner, religion, family or work, it is fatal to give up your God, since it becomes very difficult to retrieve God back. The moment you invest your God into a different entity you lose strength and validity, you lose your identity and your ambitions, your center transforms into an external being that is no longer under your control, it dictates your existence according to the exterior factors. You give up your faith, your imagination and your right to dream. Your spiritual side coexists only with the keeper of your God, and once that is shattered and so is your faith, which is sometimes impossible to regain. One should never give up their God and never allow anyone to manipulate her into investing her God into a different entity. Hence the famous phrase “sell your soul to the devil”. The phrase symbolizes giving up your God to instantly obtain the desires that would otherwise take a while to achieve, instant gratification. Waiting at times seems quite hopeless and giving up your God for the sake of speed seems like a small price to pay, which results in detrimental and destructive consequences. Religion is also that external form of God investment, once you allow religion to hold control of your God, you resign from the control of your own reason and it becomes the external fortress of your worship. Perhaps that is why so many are drawn to religion, it is sort of the idea of a “bank of Gods”, where the responsibly of carrying your own God looses its density and you can easily turn to religion to address the God that you've invested to get the daily dose of faith that would last temporarily until your next dive into religion. Just some thoughts...but it just made sense after I had couple of drinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel4hope Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 i actually like your personal interpretation of "God" thats very clever and a great thing to know..thand evelina jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Well thank you angel jan, I appreciate your efforts of not subjecting me to a ridicule for my preposterous theory. At least you will do so kindly behind my back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel4hope Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 lol no way dude...if i had to say something u woulda known...i try 2 say it how i see it...well i have a big mouth u know and i cant keep it shut sometimes so whatever i think comes out...but there are restrictions--im good at keeping secrets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Evelina you have a good imagination Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 The denial of many atheists that say there is no God, and replace the word 'God' with something else such as 'nature' or 'evolution' or what have you, and insist on there being no purpose, are only changing the name, but not denying the qualities. Calling God by a different name doesn't change the qualities one is talking about. One can call the qualities "nature", or "heaven", or "universe" or "matter", or "God" or "Theos" or "Zeus" or "Allah" or whatever one likes, but all admit the existence of the being, power or ens, thus diversely named. I have yet to meet a real atheist. Most atheists are formal atheists, not real atheists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 This thread had apparently started three years ago. We don't even know by whom and what the pusrpose was. I have not read all the gobbledigook for obvious reason one of which is that the subject has been discussed since the dawn of time and since humans learned to speak. But I get a kick everytime I see the subject topic "God Exists"! It reminds of other comical expressions. I wonder if the originator of the topic is basing his assertion on the fact that he/she had seen God at a K-Mart shopping in the company of Elvis Presley???!! :) And what wre they buying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 This thread had apparently started three years ago. We don't even know by whom and what the pusrpose was. I have not read all the gobbledigook for obvious reason one of which is that the subject has been discussed since the dawn of time and since humans learned to speak. But I get a kick everytime I see the subject topic "God Exists"! It reminds of other comical expressions. I wonder if the originator of the topic is basing his assertion on the fact that he/she had seen God at a K-Mart shopping in the company of Elvis Presley???!! :) And what wre they buying? I think I saw God at Pepboys. He said he needed to motor oil since his car broke down. Yea, it's a tough job travelling across the world answering prayers and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Well - even if everyone believed in god or gods etc - doesn't mean that he/it/she/them or what have you exist...only means that we might be collectively deluded....whatever - it is no proof...and though I don't beive in her/him/it/them etc...I have no problem teling it/them/her/him etc to F off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Well - even if everyone believed in god or gods etc - doesn't mean that he/it/she/them or what have you exist...only means that we might be collectively deluded....whatever - it is no proof...and though I don't beive in her/him/it/them etc...I have no problem teling it/them/her/him etc to F off! LOL. I agree with you for once, THOTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Apparently people forget that reason and faith are different things. Why do people try to even compare the two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Apparently people forget that reason and faith are different things. Why do people try to even compare the two? Because there are some people who think they can prove that their faith is correct and others' is not. Simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Because there are some people who think they can prove that their faith is correct and others' is not. Simple as that. Faith is correct to each individual obviously for otherwise they wouldn't have had faith to begin with, thus something must be correct for them. When Bible Thumpers zealously tell others they will go to "hell" for not believing in their "God", I don't see much difference from them bitterly defending their "God", than a atheist zealot pushing for evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 The two obviously cannot be compared. Evolution is not simply a belief. Some of it is backed by scientific and genetic research and findings. However, a lot of atheists who bang you on the head with their theories of evolution do not actually know what it's all about, but are rather associating it with that simply because they want to have a justification for their beliefs, like the bible thumpers use the bible for their anti-abortion, anti-homosexuality, anti-euthanasia, anti-criminal-punishment activism. Having said that, however, bible thumpers who do that and atheists who push for evolution are not very much comparable, although at face value they might appear similar. A lot of atheists actually don't pass moral judgements on things, a lot of them are not liberals or libertarians, morally and socially speaking. Atheism doesn't automatically equate to loose morals, which is what the bible thumpers want people to believe. atheists are, I feel inclined to say, socially neutral lots of times (they might have other socially oriented reasons for opposing homosexuality, for example), unlike the strictly religious (conservative) right-wingers who use their beliefs as a tool to make judgements on people and circumstances, the ought and ought not of things. The theory of evolution, on the other hand, can be used in 2 ways, to support homosexuality, for example, or to oppose it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Evelina you have a good imagination Sasun, it dates back all the way to my childhood years of spending my "punished" time, in the corner of the bedroom. Facing the wall, "Until I say time's up" - in my mothers words. Not being allowed any toys or books to take with me to the corner (between our chestnut colored closet and the wallpapered wall) I had to make the best out of my time. That is when imagination was born, it was most useful pretending that my fingers were people having an argument and followed by a vicious fight, later interrupted by my mothers slipper on my delicate derriere, to put an end to my noise of the self erupted finger fight. So yeah, the theory makes more sense if you spend sometime thinking about it, perhaps even in the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 First of all, hello all! I am new here and trying to catch up on all the very interesting discussions ... Hi welcome to the forum. Hope you stick around for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Hi Mr. Sip Jr., I see you've been couped up down below for sometime. Well welcome to the forum, meet my right thumb "Chejuka" and my left index finger friend "Zeitun". Hope we all become great friends.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Sasun, it dates back all the way to my childhood years of spending my "punished" time, in the corner of the bedroom. Facing the wall, "Until I say time's up" - in my mothers words. Not being allowed any toys or books to take with me to the corner (between our chestnut colored closet and the wallpapered wall) I had to make the best out of my time. That is when imagination was born, it was most useful pretending that my fingers were people having an argument and followed by a vicious fight, later interrupted by my mothers slipper on my delicate derriere, to put an end to my noise of the self erupted finger fight. Evelina jan, what did you do to stand in the corner? Naming the fingers is a good one I haven't stood in the corner much (one needed to catch me in the first place), hence the lack of imagination with me So yeah, the theory makes more sense if you spend sometime thinking about it, perhaps even in the corner. I don't know, I agree that we carry God in ourselves in a certain sense but I don't agree that religion is somehow bad for us. I believe religion helps us identify ourselelves with God. Also, everyone can get back their God (or in other words return to God) if they really want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Evelina jan, what did you do to stand in the corner? I was one naughty child, what can I say. Sasun jan, if you are agree that God is within, why must we invest it into an exterior “reserve”, to identify ourselves with God? All we really need to do is look within ourselves, the answers are there. But as I've pointed out before regarding the “banking system”, it's a heavy responsibility to carry. It's much more difficult to trust your judgment and seclude some time for yourself to analyze things through in search of the desired answer. However opening a book, or paying a visit to the church is guaranteed that your invested God will be interpreted faster and you will be given an answer faster by the authorities of the “reserve”. Just like in the Banking system, it becomes quite difficult to carry large amounts of money and quite difficult to count it every time. Thus we invest our capital into a bank, it guarantees that we will have our money back every time we withdraw. We have an easy access but are still dependent on the Banking institution. Say for example there is a technical or electrical malfunction, which would result in a lock down of the machines, in the event it would leave us without an access to our capital. Shattered faith. I think it's important to maintain a balance of things, in that case your attachment is limited and you will most likely be more resilient when it comes to a dramatic shift in the environment. As I've said before, God is intended to remain within the individual, perhaps the reason why so many people are out of touch with God and have a warped and fabricated understanding of faith, they give it up in hopes of receiving defined and clarified answers. Once it is no longer a part of your internal being, you lose the control of your own sense and identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 (edited) The two obviously cannot be compared. Evolution is not simply a belief. Some of it is backed by scientific and genetic research and findings. However, a lot of atheists who bang you on the head with their theories of evolution do not actually know what it's all about, but are rather associating it with that simply because they want to have a justification for their beliefs, like the bible thumpers use the bible for their anti-abortion, anti-homosexuality, anti-euthanasia, anti-criminal-punishment activism. Having said that, however, bible thumpers who do that and atheists who push for evolution are not very much comparable, although at face value they might appear similar. A lot of atheists actually don't pass moral judgements on things, a lot of them are not liberals or libertarians, morally and socially speaking. Atheism doesn't automatically equate to loose morals, which is what the bible thumpers want people to believe. atheists are, I feel inclined to say, socially neutral lots of times (they might have other socially oriented reasons for opposing homosexuality, for example), unlike the strictly religious (conservative) right-wingers who use their beliefs as a tool to make judgements on people and circumstances, the ought and ought not of things. The theory of evolution, on the other hand, can be used in 2 ways, to support homosexuality, for example, or to oppose it. I was not comparing the two based on one being more scientific than the other, I was comparing the due based on dogma. The assumption that people who have faith are entirely lacking in reason and morph into fanatics is entirely without reason, may I add, since people of reason will resort to the same ends. Moreoever, every creed whether of religious or political persuasion is slave to two regions, that of the dialectic and the ethic. Socrates would say that only when the two are fused does one have a perfect discipline, but yet we find the contrary. Some people are dialectically Christians, Muslims, agnostics, Hindus, etc., yet are ethically graceless, people who will write to you "evidences' in perfect faith in their logic, but fail to carry their Christian, or Muslim doctrines. This is no different than dialectical skeptics who are ethically believers, as ethics is the endpoint and purpose of religion, i.e. he who does or acts right is better than he who thinks right. Edited February 18, 2004 by Anonymouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Sasun jan, if you are agree that God is within, why must we invest it into an exterior “reserve”, to identify ourselves with God? All we really need to do is look within ourselves, the answers are there. But as I've pointed out before regarding the “banking system”, it's a heavy responsibility to carry. It's much more difficult to trust your judgment and seclude some time for yourself to analyze things through in search of the desired answer. However opening a book, or paying a visit to the church is guaranteed that your invested God will be interpreted faster and you will be given an answer faster by the authorities of the “reserve”. Just like in the Banking system, it becomes quite difficult to carry large amounts of money and quite difficult to count it every time. Thus we invest our capital into a bank, it guarantees that we will have our money back every time we withdraw. We have an easy access but are still dependent on the Banking institution. Say for example there is a technical or electrical malfunction, which would result in a lock down of the machines, in the event it would leave us without an access to our capital. Shattered faith. I think it's important to maintain a balance of things, in that case your attachment is limited and you will most likely be more resilient when it comes to a dramatic shift in the environment. As I've said before, God is intended to remain within the individual, perhaps the reason why so many people are out of touch with God and have a warped and fabricated understanding of faith, they give it up in hopes of receiving defined and clarified answers. Once it is no longer a part of your internal being, you lose the control of your own sense and identity. Well, it is an interesting theory but I have a disagreement on one major point. When we go to church or practice religion (and when we do it sincerely and soulfully) we are trying to satisfy our spiritual needs. In this manner when we go to the church we are going to get something, to get food for the soul. So the church is actually a bank that gives away spiritual "money" and expects nothing in return (perhaps some paper money which is a voluntary thing ). I don't see how practicing religion could mean investing your God in it and not getting back. Yes, God is within us and God is also everywhere. Practicing religion, reading scriptures, poetry, music, etc. are ways to get in touch with God within yourself and enrich yourself spiritually. Here is where greed is a great thing. According to Jesus, blessed are those who are spiritually poor. Such poor people will have a strong urge to get more and more spiritual "money". What you have to invest is time, effort and dedication but never your God - your God undoudtedly always remains with you. To my mind there is no such thing as too much burden of spiritual "money" or "God currency". The more you have the better off you are spiritually. Perhaps getting "rich" quickly is not a good thing as one could loose his/her mind but it is also next to impossible. As you gradually get more and more you also develop the capacity to carry more. There is no need to count it because you are not going to buy anything with this type of "money". Spiritual "money" is the end itself, there is no need to exchange it with anything else. Nothing else is as valuable as this wealth. Well, this is what I personally think of the banking theory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 God exists, and this notion prooves itself everytime we use the phrase "it was a coincidence" im sure i have said this elswhere, but.. "coincidence is when God chooses not to reveal himself" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 God exists, and this notion prooves itself everytime we use the phrase "it was a coincidence" im sure i have said this elswhere, but.. "coincidence is when God chooses not to reveal himself" Damn!! I wish all proofs were as easy as that... a 2 liner proof. Damn, you must be really good. Anonymouse, I'll get back to your reply soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 FYI - Exerpt from: THE DEIST'S IMMORTALITY, AND AN ESSAY ON MAN'S ACCOUNTABILITY FOR HIS BELIEF. BY LYSANDER SPOONER. B 0 S T 0 N 1834. The Bible requires of a certain portion of mankind, not only, that they believe it a revelation from God, but that they violate their consciences in order to believe it. For example, by requiring all men, without exception, to believe it or be damned, it requires the believers in the Koran and the Shaster to renounce those books as false. This it is impossible for them to do, unless they first investigate the evidences against their truth. Now, I think no candid man will pretend, either that those believers would not feel as much horror at the supposed impiety of disbelieving those books, as a Christian does at that of disbelieving the Bible, or that it would not require on their part as great a struggle with their consciences to go into the investigation of the evidences against the truth of those books, as it would on the part of the Christian to go into the investigation of the evidences against the truth of the Bible. Yet the Bible, by demanding of them that they believe it, virtually demands that they thus violate their consciences in order to go into such an investigation as is necessary to lead them to disbelieve those systems, which they now revere as too sacred to be doubted; and it demands this of them too on the threatened penalty of eternal damnation. If there be any conduct more wicked than any other which can be conceived of, that, which is here ascribed to Deity, must, it appears to me, exceed in wickedness any other that the human mind ever contemplated. Its wickedness is, in fact, no less than that of hereafter punishing men through eternity, for not having done in this world that which they most religiously believed to be wrong. And what is it to believe the Bible, that men should merit the everlasting vengeance of the Almighty for not believing it ? Why, setting aside its secondary absurdities and enormities, it is to believe in these giant ones, viz.., that when Deity created an universe, in pursuance of a design worthy of himself, he created in that universe a Hell--a Hell for a portion of the beings to whom he was about to give life--a Hell for his children--a Hell that should witness the eternal reign of iniquity, misery and despair--a Hell that should endlessly perpetuate the wickedness and the wo of those who might otherwise have become virtuous and happy; that he then, after having created men, and given them a nature capable of infinite progress in knowledge and virtue, by placing them in a world full of enticement and seduction, deliberately laid the snare, made the occasion, fed the desire, and instigated, invited and seduced to the conduct, which he knew certainly would issue in the moral ruin of that nature, and the endless wretchedness of the individuals: and, finally, that all this was right, that such a Being is a good Being, and that he merits from us no other sentiment than the highest and purest degree of filial and religious emotion. http://www.lysanderspooner.org/bib_new.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.