Stormig Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 quote:Originally posted by QRISTINE:One factor contributing to immodesty and the breakdown of moral values is the modern dress worn by our young women and their mothers. I see young women, and some older ones, on the streets wearing shorts. This is not right. The place for women to wear shorts is in their rooms, in their own homes, in their own gardens. I see some of our LDS mothers, wives, and daughters wearing dresses extreme and suggestive in style. Even some fathers encourage it. I wonder if our sisters realize the temptation they are flaunting before men when they leave their bodies partly uncovered or dress in tight-fitting, body-revealing, form-fitting sweaters.Methinks you wouldn't have been able to become a professional tennis player or swimmer.Now I know why we don't have Iranian sportswomen at the Olympics. I suppose Armenians should be added in there. Don't want to be raped when going out for a bit of night air the day before your most exciting competition. And I really detest the "they should wear shorts at home." Why not just walk about in your underwear at home and in your garden if it is soo, so bad to wear shorts in the first place? And please don't give me any copy-paste material. I prefer people to come to me with their own vulnerabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigrannesIII Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 Types like me? That's a little judgmental. If it does start with disrespect as you say, it starts with a woman who disrespects herself by dressing like a whore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 quote:Originally posted by TigrannesIII:Types like me? That's a little judgmental. If it does start with disrespect as you say, it starts with a woman who disrespects herself by dressing like a whore."Whore" is judgemental and not the least respectful to be directed at someone you don't know well enough."Whore" is what a Muslim calls your female family members for not kow-towing to males and for showing their faces. Who cares if they approve? But it is disgraceful of them and certainly disrespectful and judgemental."Whore" is what you call someone whose underwear you bother to notice from their jeans. Who cares to please you? But you are being judgemental.Mind your own private matters instead of taking the liberty to nag others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QRISTINE Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 CHASHAKIN ENKER CHKA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Stormy:... Acknowledge your instincts and use them to your own benefit. We humans are different from the rest of the members of the animal kingdom because we can harness Nature, including our own.On top of that, there is this whole issue about opposable thumbs. Some men really need to learn to use EVERYTHING that evolution or god has given them to the fullest extents. Then, they will realize that it doesn't really matter what women do cause they can proactively control themselves ... and the balance of power shifts again [evil laugh]ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha [/evil laugh] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 quote:Originally posted by QRISTINE: Don’t worry about myself I don’t have desire for being professional tennis player or swimmer.No, I suppose you don't - as you see these as immoral pursuits by definition. Question - do you ever watch the Summer Olympics? I mean almost all nations of the world participate...many sending women atheletes who wear swimsuits, running shorts, tight/revealing tops - not only in public - but for worldwide TV...do you truly think that all of these folks (women & the whole infrastucture) are immoral? And the point is - we are not talking about you - but standards for others (you can do whatever it is you please...yeah enjoy yourself...) quote:Originally posted by QRISTINE:As a teacher my delicate look, and modesty in dressing is very pleasent for myself, and for the environment I worked for many years.Well very good for you...such perfection - are you shore that you are a mere mortal? quote:Originally posted by QRISTINE:DON’T BE JEOULOUS YOU CAN ALSO FIND SUPPORTIVE VIEWS IN OUR NET THAT MIGHT SUPPORT YOUR POINTS , BUT PLEASE DON’T MISS ALSO MY LINES. I GAVE YOU SOME GUDLINES WHICH WAS POSTED BY OUR FAMIOUS PHILOSHPERS, AND I DON’T DENY THE REALITY THAT I HAVE MENTIONED THEIR STATEMENTS INSTEAD I AM HAPPY :)THAT I HAVE A GREAT LEVEL OF KNOWLEDGE CONSIRNING MODESTY IN DRESSING.Really now, do tell? ...tell me also do you know where to find the caps lock on your keyboard?I must say if you find my statements confusing how do you make any sense of what you write? Can't imagine... quote:Originally posted by QRISTINE:I AM SURE THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO LIKES TO SHOW THEIR BODIES PARTLY UNCOVERED OR DRESS IN TIGHT FITTING, BODY-REVEALING, FORM-FITTING SWEATERS. I AM SURE YOU WILL FIND THEM VERY MODEST IN DRESSING;HOWEVER, IF YOU ARE AGAINST TO MY PERSPECTIVE, AND DO NOT PREFER SUITS IN THE PUBLIC, THEN I AM SURE YOU WILL ADMIRE THEIR STYLES, AND I GUESS YOU CAN ALSO EDUCATE YOUR SOUROUNDINGS THAT IT IS A GREAT WAY TO PRESENT THEMSELVES IN THE PUBLIC, BUT UNFORTUNANTLY YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND THAT MOST MODEST AND PEOPLE WHO HAS HIGH STANDARD OF MORALS HAVE THE SAME THINKING CONSIRNING TO CLOTHES AS I DO.Prove it. You can't - its all subjective. Jeffry Dalmer was a conservative dresser. The defense rests. quote:Originally posted by QRISTINE:I DON’T CARE HOW YOU PREFER TO WEAR YOUR CLOTHES BUT I PERSONALLY DISLIKE INMODEST STYLE IN DRESSING SPECIIALLY IN PUBLIC AREAS. Well then I advise you to stay at home if you are so offended. Perhaps you should be veiled and have no (unescorted) contact with the opposite sex until your contract has been sold by your father or brother. Then you can be wholly owned by your arranged husband. Nice to be so free of the burdens of (in)decsision is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loreley Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 I wonder why is it always about women dressing sexy and men controlling his impulses (or whatever you called it) and not the other way around? Yes, it is truth that in general (not always) women dress sexier than men. Why? A lot people think it is because women are out there trying to "get" a man, women like attention, etc. For some women, I am sure that is true. I think the underlying reason is because from childhood, women are taught that their value is in their body, style, that they need to always look beautiful, that looks are the base of their self-esteem. That is why there are girls that at the age of 10 are thinking about their weights. Male privilege greatly benefits from having women worrying more about their looks than their careers/persona (just want to clarify that a lot women who look beautiful/sexy are also very smart and professional). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loreley Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 Qristine: I certainly respect your ideas, but I disagree with them. If you don't like to dress "inmodestly" (as you call it), that is fine and is respected. On the other hand, it is not fair to put your ideas/judgements on people who like to dress different than you do. To be honest with you, I don't like to dress sexy too because I don'feel comfortable that way and because I think that a lot of women do it just because society "tells" them that a woman should always care about her image. I believe that people can like me for other reasons than my physical appearance. However, I support women who dress up as they want to (conservative, liberal, sexy, naked, hippy, etc.) because I am no one to pass a judgement. If they are happy, I am happy for them. Let people be who they want to be as long as they don't hurt anybody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Loreley:However, I support women who dress up as they want to (conservative, liberal, sexy, naked, hippy, etc.) because I am no one to pass a judgement.exactly. that's what i always tell women. you are free to wear anything you want. if you don't want to wear anything, that's even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Loreley:Qristine: I certainly respect your ideas, but I disagree with them. If you don't like to dress "inmodestly" (as you call it), that is fine and is respected. On the other hand, it is not fair to put your ideas/judgements on people who like to dress different than you do. To be honest with you, I don't like to dress sexy too because I don'feel comfortable that way and because I think that a lot of women do it just because society "tells" them that a woman should always care about her image. I believe that people can like me for other reasons than my physical appearance. However, I support women who dress up as they want to (conservative, liberal, sexy, naked, hippy, etc.) because I am no one to pass a judgement. If they are happy, I am happy for them. Let people be who they want to be as long as they don't hurt anybody else.Excellent statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QRISTINE Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 Qristine: I certainly respect your ideas, but I disagree with them. If you don't like to dress "inmodestly" (as you call it), that is fine and is respected. On the other hand, it is not fair to put your ideas/judgements on people who like to dress different than you do. To be honest with you, I don't like to dress sexy too because I don'feel comfortable that way and because I think that a lot of women do it just because society "tells" them that a woman should always care about her image. I believe that people can like me for other reasons than my physical appearance. However, I support women who dress up as they want to (conservative, liberal, sexy, naked, hippy, etc.) because I am no one to pass a judgement. If they are happy, I am happy for them. Let people be who they want to be as long as they don't hurt anybody else. On the other hand, it is not fair to put your ideas/judgements on people who like to dress different than you do HI LORELEY I DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST ANYBODY, BUT IF YOU GO TO PUBLIC AREAS I DON’T CONSIDER TIGHT SKIRTS OR UNCOVERED CLOTHES ARE EXCEPTABLE IN SUCH ENVIRONMENT. I AM GLAD TO HEAR THAT YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO LIKES TO DRESS COSERVATIVE.I DO NOT JUDGE ANYBODY I DISLIKE THAT WORD VERY MUCH, IT IS WHAT I WOULD PREFER. I BELIVE THERE ARE GREAT DIFFERENCE OF MEANINGS BETWEEN THIS TWO POWERFUL WORDS. LORELY HOPEFULLY YOU UNDERSTAND ARMENIAN PLEASE GO AND READ MY LAST POSTS AND I AM SURE YOU WILL BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND HOW I REALLY THINK. MY POINT IS THAT THERE IS NO FRIEND TO YOUR TASTE. AND I DON’T CONSIDER IT IS JUDGEMENTAL STATEMENT. I CAN CLARIFY THIS TO YOU. EXAMPLE, I LIKE TO WEAR DRESSES IN PUBLIC AREAS, HOWEVER MY FRIEND MIGHT FIND ATTRACTIVE VERY SHORT SKIRTS OR NECK BARED CLOTHING. IT IS ALL MATTER OF TASTE. DEAR MEMBERS, I AM SERIOUSLY DISOPOINTED WHEN PEOPLE ARE MISINTERPETING MY STATEMENTS, PRETENDING, AND TRYING PUT YOU DOWN. WE ALL HAVE OUR PERSPECTIVES AND THEY SHOULD BE RESPECTED. THERE ARE SO MANY CASES THAT I HAVE DISAGREED WITH PEOPLE STATEMENTS, BUT I DID NOT PUT THEM DOWN..AND PLEASE TELL WHAT YOU REALLY THINK, BE COURAGEOUS I GET SO MANY PRIVATE MESSAGES STATING THAT THEY HAVE AGREED WITH MY OPINIONS, BUT THE UNFORTUNATE PART IS MOST OF THEM DON’T TAKE THIS COURAGE AND USE IN HYEFORUM. I think that a lot of women do it just because society "tells" them that a woman should always care about her image. I AGREE WITH THIS ONE WITH YOU THAT SOCIETY TELLS YOU THAT YOU SHOULD CARE FOR YOUR IMAGE, BUT THERE SHOULD BE CERTAIN LEVELS. SOCIETY MIGHT GIVE US TOO MANY OPTIONS, BUT AS HUMAN BEINGS WE HAVE TO SEE MODESTY IN CLOTHING ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE PUBLIC AREAS. AND OUR FUTURE GENERATION WILL LEARN FROM US. I PERSONALLY HAVE WITNESSED IN SO MANY CASES THAT MANY OF THE TEACHERS WERE NOT EXCEPTABLE TO SCHOOLS ONLY BECAUSE OF THEIR DRESSING STYELES. THEY MIGHT HAD A GREAT BEHAVIOUR, BUT FROM THE FIRST IMPRESSION MOST OF THEM WERE REJECTED, SO I BELIVE 90% OF OUR POPULATION REALLY CARES HOW PEOPLE DRESSED NOW DAYS. I DON’T THINK WE SHOULD ALWAYS FOLLOW WHAT THE SOCIETY TELLS US TO DO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QRISTINE Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 STORMY Methinks you wouldn't have been able to become a professional tennis player or swimmer. Don’t worry about myself I don’t have desire for being professional tennis player or swimmer. As a teacher my delicate look, and modesty in dressing is very pleasent for myself, and for the environment I worked for many years. DON’T BE JEOULOUS YOU CAN ALSO FIND SUPPORTIVE VIEWS IN OUR NET THAT MIGHT SUPPORT YOUR POINTS , BUT PLEASE DON’T MISS ALSO MY LINES. I GAVE YOU SOME GUDLINES WHICH WAS POSTED BY OUR FAMIOUS PHILOSHPERS, AND I DON’T DENY THE REALITY THAT I HAVE MENTIONED THEIR STATEMENTS INSTEAD I AM HAPPY :)THAT I HAVE A GREAT LEVEL OF KNOWLEDGE CONSIRNING MODESTY IN DRESSING. I AM SURE THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO LIKES TO SHOW THEIR BODIES PARTLY UNCOVERED OR DRESS IN TIGHT FITTING, BODY-REVEALING, FORM-FITTING SWEATERS. I AM SURE YOU WILL FIND THEM VERY MODEST IN DRESSING;HOWEVER, IF YOU ARE AGAINST TO MY PERSPECTIVE, AND DO NOT PREFER SUITS IN THE PUBLIC, THEN I AM SURE YOU WILL ADMIRE THEIR STYLES, AND I GUESS YOU CAN ALSO EDUCATE YOUR SOUROUNDINGS THAT IT IS A GREAT WAY TO PRESENT THEMSELVES IN THE PUBLIC, BUT UNFORTUNANTLY YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND THAT MOST MODEST AND PEOPLE WHO HAS HIGH STANDARD OF MORALS HAVE THE SAME THINKING CONSIRNING TO CLOTHES AS I DO. I DON’T CARE HOW YOU PREFER TO WEAR YOUR CLOTHES BUT I PERSONALLY DISLIKE INMODEST STYLE IN DRESSING SPECIIALLY IN PUBLIC AREAS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 All I know is, those types of clothes that girls wear and the behaviors that were mentioned above, do certainly grab my attention. It's just a program that is in my brain and other parts of my body that I simply don't have much control over. I guess you could say GOD made me this way since I am very certain I didn't learn it from any media ... So, now if a girl wants that kind of attention, then so be it. I can certainly understand why some would want to take advantage of one of my very few weakness like that!!!! As far as rape and the discussion surrounding it, let's not confuse thoughts and actions. Rape is a violent and criminal ACT. There is simply NO excuse for it (so i totally agree with Loreley on this). However, thoughts and attractions can be, and certainly are induced (at least in me) with girls wearing revealing clothing and their suggestive behavior. These thoughts rarely lead to any action on my part since I think that is one of the key factors setting me apart from, and above other animals (lower life forms). But I have to admit sometimes it takes a LOT of restraint, because some girls certainly tend to make it very hard (pun intended) for us men ... to deal with those thoughts ... But since I am sure most of them know it and they want to do that, I don't really see a problem here. [ December 21, 2002, 12:44 AM: Message edited by: Sip ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 quote:Originally posted by QRISTINE:I GAVE YOU SOME GUDLINES WHICH WAS POSTED BY OUR FAMIOUS PHILOSHPERSPhilosophers? quote:Originally posted by QRISTINE:I DON’T CARE HOW YOU PREFER TO WEAR YOUR CLOTHES BUT I PERSONALLY DISLIKE INMODEST STYLE IN DRESSING SPECIIALLY IN PUBLIC AREAS.So you start out with, "I personally dislike..." - meaning, I respect people but I also want to make it known that I dislike some/all of what they are doing... To be continued with, "immodest, immoral"... Conclusion: You can be immodest or immoral but I don't mind because I have respect for you. Who are you to define someone as immodest and/or immoral by the clothes they wear? I define people as such by their behaviour, and this includes the dense-medium sink products for whom women are either women or "whores" and the people that agree with them and who judge people by the clothes they wear. And I dare anyone to claim that judging people by what they purport is meaningless and judging people by what they wear is so much better.And the question was not whether you could play tennis or swim. The question was about whether you have those things they put next to horses' eyes, whether you can see broadly enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Sip:These thoughts rarely lead to any action on my part because I think that is one of the basic things setting me apart from and above other animals.Exactly! To give them their own medicine, as a counterpart to "women should learn not to disrespect themselves first," I say:[Prude] Men should be able to act above animals.Those that suppress their instincts will not be able to deal with them. That is why you need "prudence" - never get to the source of the "problem" (which is not), just make-believe it is not there. Acknowledge your instincts and use them to your own benefit. We humans are different from the rest of the members of the animal kingdom because we can harness Nature, including our own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted December 21, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 Stormy, Thoth & (especially) Lorely: I strongly support your viewpoints in this thread. quote:Originally posted by THOTH:Somehow we have become twisted in our values - denying much of our nature, creating psychosis out of what should be normal and natural. So some go overboard - yes - I could agree with this - but I don't see anything inherently wrong with sexuality, displaying (?) the human body, having a little fun with it - etc. If you choose not to wear shorts fine. No problem. But if others choose differently it is not your place to judge. In fact it is you who is out of step with Western values. Are these values perfect - etc - no - I won't go that far. But I certainly prefer them to denialist values that stem from a belief system that IMO is at odds with natural human behavior. And I really think our society has bigger problems that don't stem from these factors but are caused by other issues - such as poor parenting and passing of manners and values - not necessarily puritanic values - but those that teach respect of others and thus oneself (and for out planet/environment, other cultures/values etc). With a solid foundation people will have the where-with-all to make good choices for themselves and for society at large. We don't need restrictive rules and fear of mythical punishments etc - these beliefs have done little to stop killings and nasty behavior of man towards fellow man (and woman etc). I don't buy it.Well said Thoth, I certainly couldn't havce said it better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted December 21, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Qristine:Latter-day Saints believe that modest dress reflects commitment to a Christlike life and shows respect for self, for fellow beings, and for God. In their homes and in the Church, they are taught that modest dress has a positive effect on both self-esteem and behavior. Latter Day Saints... Are they Mormons? Can someone fill me in? I don't know much about this, except that I see 'inspirational'(!) TV ads sometimes.... So, then, are there Armenian Mormons?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 quote:Originally posted by QRISTINE:CHASHAKIN ENKER CHKA. Bayts te Anjashakutyan el chap yev sahamn e petq che ? lav mi harts I have a question for our ladies Lets say me and any one of your lades have a date I’m driving up to your house in a Cadillac – with gold plated wills and music blasting of - Sev Sev Acher – I get of the car and what you see is an Armenian Model Liberachi / 100% rabiz / like open chest + big cross + yellow jacket + golden tooth + Gorgeo Armani glasses + + $250 pound belly hanging + ….So #1 do you close the door ? #2 do you stand and tray to make an excuse – not to go out ? – #3 or do you jump up and dawn from the joy that you have found me ?99% you will do #1 or #2 [ December 21, 2002, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: MosJan ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 quote:Originally posted by vava: quote:Originally posted by Qristine:Latter-day Saints believe that modest dress reflects commitment to a Christlike life and shows respect for self, for fellow beings, and for God. In their homes and in the Church, they are taught that modest dress has a positive effect on both self-esteem and behavior. Latter Day Saints... Are they Mormons? Can someone fill me in? I don't know much about this, except that I see 'inspirational'(!) TV ads sometimes.... So, then, are there Armenian Mormons??yes i know 2 / in Richfild UT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 QRISTINE JAn - can you not use CAPS - please Thank you MOvses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loreley Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 Qristine: hi. I do understand Armenian, but I was actually writing my opinion on one of your posts in English. Judgement is "the forming of an opinion, estimate, notion, or conclusion, from circumstances presented to the mind." You had once wrote, "Other things besides cars and darkness encourage unchastity and immorality. One of them is immodesty... One factor contributing to immodesty and the breakdown of moral values is the modern dress worn by our young women and their mothers. I see young women, and some older ones, on the streets wearing shorts. This is not right." It seems like you are stating that women who dress up with "inmodesty" (as you call it) are bringing immorality to the world. From my perspective, that is passing a judgement because you are saying that a person who wears a very short skirt doesn't have moral values. That is NOT necessarily the case. I am very sorry (sincerely) if you have ever felt that any of us are trying to put you down, because nobody is trying to do that. Everybody is voicing their opinions and respecting yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 quote:Originally posted by MosJan: quote:Originally posted by QRISTINE:CHASHAKIN ENKER CHKA. Bayts te Anjashakutyan el chap yev sahamn e petq che ? lav mi harts I have a question for our ladies Lets say me and any one of your lades have a date I’m driving up to your house in a Cadillac – with gold plated wills and music blasting of - Sev Sev Acher – I get of the car and what you see is an Armenian Model Liberachi / 100% rabiz / like open chest + big cross + yellow jacket + golden tooth + Gorgeo Armani glasses + + $250 pound belly hanging + ….So #1 do you close the door ? #2 do you stand and tray to make an excuse – not to go out ? – #3 or do you jump up and dawn from the joy that you have found me ?99% you will do #1 or #2If i was a woman, I say #3. But since I am not you are on your own Movses jan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loreley Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 MosJan: For your question, in the scenario, is it a blind date (you were supposed to pick up the lady) or you just driving by and asking for a date? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loreley Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 Tooth: I agree with your ideas!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 quote:Originally posted by MosJan: quote:Originally posted by QRISTINE:CHASHAKIN ENKER CHKA. Bayts te Anjashakutyan el chap yev sahamn e petq che ? lav mi harts I have a question for our ladies Lets say me and any one of your lades have a date I’m driving up to your house in a Cadillac – with gold plated wills and music blasting of - Sev Sev Acher – I get of the car and what you see is an Armenian Model Liberachi / 100% rabiz / like open chest + big cross + yellow jacket + golden tooth + Gorgeo Armani glasses + + $250 pound belly hanging + ….So #1 do you close the door ? #2 do you stand and tray to make an excuse – not to go out ? – #3 or do you jump up and dawn from the joy that you have found me ?99% you will do #1 or #2Mosjan - but if the father is paid off properly isn't this all a moot point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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