Loreley

Ara: Sometimes age has nothing to do with being mature or inmature. A person can be 26 years old and be completely inmature. Don't worry about the age issue. There is no age when it comes to love or to feeling attracted to someone else.

I do not see anything wrong with open marriage relationships. There are other ways to be happy outside of what has always been considered the "standard" or "normal" family. Who decides what is "normal" is an issue in itself.

I think that sometimes because life can be difficult, there is this human necessity to believe in something/someone that cannot be seen, to have that faith that will keep people going. I have more faith in myself than in anybody/anything else. I personally do Not believe or follow any particular religion because religion has became an institution, it has been the cause of so many wars, deaths, persecutions. I do not believe in hell or heaven. The idea of hell and heaven feels like a way to scare people so they won't do bad things. I think we have days that feel like heaven and other days that don't.

It feels sometimes that most good guys are with girls that don't appreciate them and good girls met guys that don't appreciate them. I Don't know if this is true or no, but it seems that way sometimes.

Azat: Hope you find a job really soon!!

Vava: I agree with your statement!!!!!! Of course, the socioeconomic situation for women is not the same as it was 20 years ago. Opportunities are opening up for women (altough in a much smaller scale for women of color and immigrant women). Things have improved and changed, but we are still not at the point of saying things are equal. When we compare the situation of women in developing countries to women in the U.S., women here are much much better off. Should we comform because things are little better than in the past and when comparing to other countries? No. It is about reaching equality for all people (women, men, gays, White and non-White people, immigrants,lesbians, here and around the world).

Azat: HI. We are not never going to agree on this issue!!!!! or at least find a middle ground. I certainly do not think that men take more risks than women or viceversa. The fact that women are primarily in jobs such as teaching, childcare, housewives, secretarias is not just a coincidence. Men don't force women into those jobs, but we are socialized to be nurturing, detailed oriented, socially caring, etc. I am sorry but I don't believe that idea that we are all treated equally and there must be something wrong about those who fail. I thank you for your suggestion, and I also would like to recommend you reading: "Ain't I a Woman" by bell hooks (she doesn't use capital letters on her name on purpose). I am not saying that all women are victims or anything like that, but that there is still disparity and inequality. Some women are better position than men, but you can't deny the facts.

Azat: Sorry it took me this long…..Only 30% of employed women earn more than $35,000 a year, compared with 51% of employed men. Counting only year-round, full-time workers, women college graduates, on the average, earn less than men with some college and only slightly more than men with only a high school education ($35,378, women with a bachelor’s degrees; 35,945, men with only some college; $31,215, men with high school diplomas; U.S. Census Bureau). Women constitute 98 % of secretaries, 97% of child care workers, 94% of nurses, and 81% of librarians, 75% of teachers, and 66% of social workers (low paying jobs), but only 27% of lawyers, 27% of professional athletes, 26% of physicians, 17% of dentists, and 10% of engineers. In 1997, full-time male administrative support workers earned $514 per week, compared to $403 per week for women (U.S. Department of Labor), the median weekly earnings for service workers were $317 for men and $260 for women. Women who do not work for wages spend about 70 hours per week in housework (unpaid labor), about 30 of which are devoted exclusively to child care. Women who work for wages and do housework, they work an average of 76 to 89 hour per week. We can go on and on... Azat: you asked if women provide cheaper labor, why wouldn’t corporations hire women and save money? As Firestone says, “There is no such a thing as “pure Capitalism,” nor does “pure Patriarchy” exist, for they must of necessity coexist……The material base of Patriarchy is men’s control over women’s labor power. Patriarchy as a system of relations between men and women exists in capitalism and that in capitalist societies a healthy and strong partnership exists between patriarchy and capital.”

Somedays I wish I could be a child all over again. It is scary to think about getting older (I know that I am still very young), but then it makes you think of how much we should enjoy every moment of our lives because we are not going to live forever.

Rubo and Gamavor: I love Mario Benedetti's work and I like Jorge Luis Borges.

Rubo: What you wrote is very nice. If people knew each other's background and life experiences, we will be more understanding and respectful of that person's perspective. On the other hand, it is nice to write something without having to go deep into who you are. It is the first time that I write in a forum, and I have learned a lot of things and I am learning how to see something from different perspectives. Honestly, I have a lot of feminist and radical ideas and I got used to talking to people that have similar ideas too, but since I am writing in this forum, it has been enlightening, challenging, and a learning experience to read about different ideas and ways of seeing things.

Azat:you are right. They say that there are about 10,000 Armenians in Uruguay but a very small (really small) percentage of it are active in the Armenian community. Especially, in the last few years, we are having this huge economic crisis (Argentina's situation affected us a lot) so people are more concerned about survival. Argentina has a much bigger community (supposedly about 100,000).

Azat: I would love to give you the statistics. My books are back at my home, so when I get a chance to go home and I will post them for you.

Korn: Thanks for sharing your concerns. Honestly, I speak much more Spanish than Armenian because I feel more comfortable and have more knowledge of the Spanish language. Am I less of an Armenian? I don't think so. When I am with Armenians, if we have the same dialect, I speak in Armenian. If we have different dialects, I feel more comfortable in English because I will understand more. I know the language, I use it in family and friend setting, but it is not my first language. I am conscious that I should practice it more and hope to do so. I was brought up in a small Armenian community in Uruguay and we had armenian school (only elementary), church, and clubs, but we didn't have armenian stores, bookstores, Armenian newspapers, Armenian food,most of us had never been there or ever seen an Armenian from Armenia. We tried our best to the keep the culture in our hearts. Yeah, I don't know a lot of historical data as you do, but it is necessary to be more welcoming and understanding of Armenians who are not as knowledgable as you are(people's life circumstances are different)so people feel more comfortable staying in the Armenian community as oppossed of leaving the community because they are Not seen as fully Armenian who comply with their Armenian duties.

I applaud immigrants who leave everything behind (family, job, home,status) to come here and to provide their children with the best. The moment that they have left everything behind for their children, they become heroes and great examples for their children in terms of survival, sacrifice, hard work, love, determination. Most immigrants who had a status in their country (job or degree or money), had to give it up in some way to be here. They never stop being "somebody" and they also become "unique," and "admirable." Sip: I know you were talking in financial terms when you said "somebody," I know you admire your parents. I understood what you meant.

Azat: I certainly disagree that women and men earn almost the same (not in this planet), but we can go back and forth, you will still think that women earn the same and I will still think that they don't. Thanks for sharing your perspective , and most of all, for being respectful in doint it so.

Sip: I agree with you that women should be the main caregivers for their children for the first years because we can breast feed them, etc. I think that once a couple makes a commitment to have children, then the responsability should be shared by both of them. I think that both, the woman and the man, should be willing to make sacrificies for the children. Azat was saying that women most of the time need to leave the jobs because the children are sick or she has to pick them up from school. What I was trying to say was that those responsibilities can be shared by the mother and the father. I have been wondering for a long time if women are more naturally bonded to their children than men because I feel that men are loving, nurturing, and have the ability to care for their children in the same way. It could be my experience but my father has always been more nurturing than my mother. To be honest, I feel that when I have my children, I will be spend of most time caring for them than for anything else.

Azat: To your question,"Do you think that we should be in a socialistic world where people like Sip who spend years and years in school and get a PhD earn as much as the "hard working" Mexican?" I sincerely admire Sip for his dedication, hard work, knowledge, and for everything he has accomplished and will continue to do so. I think that he deserves recognition for his work and the best job. I also believe that people that work in the farms, sweatshops, construction, etc, who work for 12 hours per day, under poor working conditions, no benefits, who will not receive social security (because are undocumented)also deserve the best quality of life. They might have not spend years in school, but they have spend most of their lives working in sweatshops and are not rewarded in any way. I volunteer for the Garment Worker Center and my heart goes to those workers in the garment industry because some people get paid $10 -$15 per day for working like 10 hours per day in the U.S. and they feel powerless because how are they going to complain if they are illegaly here. This center helps them a lot. So, I think that both individuals as Sip and individuals as the farmers, etc. should be rewarded for their work.

The ideology that women are expected to do most of the childcare is not a choice, but it is a socially created belief based on traditional and patriarchal ideas.

Azat: You stated,"Yes I have and I also have worked enough in large corporations and in public sector to realize why certain groups get ahead in life and some do not. 2 words: harder workers." A lot of Mexicans come to the U.S. from rural places because they are displaced from their lands when U.S. and other countries corporations build companies in those lands. Those people who are forced to leave because of their financial situation come to U.S. without legal papers and without knowing the language. Once they are here, they work in extremely low paying jobs, for so many hours a day, are not elegible for health insurance or anything, don't have time to go to school and are treated like sh.... They do work hard, but of course, they will never end up working in a corporation. It is always easier to blame the invidual so when we make it to the top (have a good job, a degree), we feel so proud of ourselves, and we can say that we are different than those who don't make it because they must be lazy.

“I’ll never return” by meena, founder of RAWA (Revolutionary Association of Women of Afghanistan) I’m the woman who has awoken I’ve risen and become a tempest through the ashes of my burnt children I’ve arisen from the rivulets of my brother’s blood My nation’s wrath has empowered me My ruined and burnt villages fill me with hatred against the enemy I’m the woman who has awoken, I’ve found my path and will never return. I’ve opened closed doors of ignorance I’ve said farewell to all golden bracelets Oh compatriot, I’m not what I was I’m the woman who has awoken I’ve found my path and will never return. I’ve seen barefoot, wandering and homeless children I’ve seen henna-handed brides with mourning clothes I’ve seen giant walls of the prisons swallow freedom in their ravenous stomach I’ve reborn amidst epics of resistance and courage I’ve learned the song of freedom in the last breaths, in the waves of blood and in victor Oh compatriot, Oh brother, no longer regard me as weak and incapable With all my strength I’m with you on the path of my land’s liberation. My voice has mingled with thousands of arisen women. My fists are clenched with the fists of thousands of compatriots Along with you I’ve stepped up to the path of my nation, To break all these suffering all These fetters of slavery, Oh compatriot, Oh brother, I’m not what I was I’m the woman who has awoken I’ve found my path and will never return.

Azat: I was not saying that only White men are privelege, but that statistically speaking, White elite men are in more powerful positions than women, people of color, and poor and working class White people. In some cases, White women have more privileges than men of color. Have you look at statistics as far as income and educational opportunities across gender and race lines? The fact that women take more sick leave is due to taking of her children. That is true. However, the fact that it is women (not men) who do most of the childcare is a societal demand, and consequently, you will have more men working full time, better paying jobs, and more financially independent.

I feel bad that September 11 had to happened for the world to remember and acknowledge the experience of women of Afghanistan. At the same time, I feel that the U.S. is using the cliche of "let's help the women of Afghanistan" to serve its own political and socioeconomic interests, and it is not really about the women. People are using their "own cultural lenses" to analyze these women's culture,lifestyle, and beliefs without much knowledge and understanding about these women's beliefs. My heart goes to them for the oppression in which they have been living. I have heard once a woman from Afghanistan saying that women in America are oppressed too because women in America have to show their bodies to be liked and seen. She asked:" isn't that oppression too?" I had never thought about it from that perspective.

Takavor: I loved your translation.

I strongly believe that the ideals for which suppossedly the U.S. stands for are nothing more than hypocrisy. The Constitution of United States of America (and the people) proclaims to symbolize the principles of justice, opportunity, equality, and freedom for all the people. However, ideals and policies of liberty and justice apply only to certain privileged groups (White male elite). I don't agree with the part about putting U.S. culture and history down because then we are doing to them the same thing that they are doing to us.