My sister dating outside race

[Arturian]

Thoth, you are a Daoist?

Man, the more i read your posts the more sick i feel... How old are you to talk about sex n public about it in such open manner??? There are kids coming to this forum. You are not serious!

Also, You said you are married... what are you doing wasting your time in forums?

[THOTH]

quote:

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Originally posted by ARTURian:
Thoth, you are a Daoist?
Man, the more i read your posts the more sick i feel...

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I'm sorry (for you - very much so) that you cannot understand that there are people who believe/have beliefs differently then you in the world. Do you know what makes me more sick then anything: intolerance.

quote:

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Originally posted by ARTURian:
How old are you to talk about sex n public about it in such open manner??? There are kids coming to this forum. You are not serious!

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Does my saying that sex is a natural thing really bother you so much? You aren't just a (narrow minded supposed Christian) you are phobic.

Question: Should children be allowed to read the bible? Unedited? (at what age then...?)Funny that its OK for your Holy book to be so very graphic when it comes to sex and sexual things (and extreme violence and worse)...but the mere mention of the word sex by me sends you into a frenzy.

Kids - if your reading this - sex is (generally) good - it can be very good in fact - it is a really good thing in general - in addition to being anecessary for the survival of our species and a precondition (in most cases) to beginning and perpetuation of a family. But it is (decidedly) a grown up thing - because it is not a simple thing that you become invlved with when it comes to sex - there are many (potential)complications and issues , a great many - and any decision regarding such is a big one (for your life) and you don't want to mess it up. And it also requires maturity to understand all the emotional aspects of relationships that become sexually involved. You should not enter inot such a relationship before your truly ready and before the right situation and partner present themselves. You owe it to yourself to do it right so that (eventually) it will be a good thing for you to and not a source of (potentially very serious) problems for you. For all of these reasons I suggest you speak heart to heart with your parents (or some other adult(s) that you trust...maybe even a teacher at school, or perhaps even a priest [but be careful there]) for guidance before becoming sexually active/involved - hopefully they will not be like Artur - but will be understanding and able to correctly advise and help you to make the right decision. Please don't take/make such decisions lightly. Its more then just playing around. And there are many good reasons to wait until you are truly ready.

Is that an OK warning/disclaimer Artur? I believe that proper sexual education is a very important thing for young people. The consequences of not having such are very readily apparent...don't you think?

quote:

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Originally posted by ARTURian:
Also, You said you are married... what are you doing wasting your time in forums?

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I don't understand your point. Are you suggesting I am not spending my time with my wife & children? Well this is untrue - I am often on the computer with them - such as today - and/or am doing other things in addition to stopping in here. I don't consider my involvement in various forums wasted time as I have interesting exchanges, often learn things, and get a certain amount of entertainment out of them (for a variety of reasons). I've also made a few friends - always a good thing. Whats your excuse?

[Juggernaut]

hehe, man I've been missing out. Thoth, I see you have successfully replaced MJ as the 'high moral figure' on this forum, I wonder if you'll also be able to match his wit . Ok lets get down to business,

 

regarding intermarriage, inter-dating etc.

 

I have nothing against inter-dating, and I think this should be promoted in the Armenian community because it expands our horizons in knowledge and also promotes us in other communities. Intermarriage I would not approve of, though I know how strong love maybe. Mind you I have yet to 'fall in love', but a close friends of mine have and the effects are quite compelling. I for one understand that 'love' is simply chemicals messing with your brain , mind you its difficult to turn the tap off .

 

sex - is healthy and fun I'm sorry this may sound sexist , but men should get as much as possible before marriage, but women should stay virgins. I know its bad, but thats my currents stance (it will probably change after marriage).

 

Armenian church- I am not much of a church-goer and have only so far read 1/3 of the Bible (I have read the childrens version several times when I was 10 ), but I believe Christianity and being Armenian are inter-twinned. If you are not Christian then you are not Armenian.

 

And how dare you characterize my views as filfth. They are nothing of the kind I am an extremely moral and upright person. And my virews are very consistent with those of the founding fathers of our great nation.

 

Thank you thoth, for providing me with the laugh of the day . So if you consider America to be 'your' nation, how are you Armenian? And there is nothing great about 'your' nation, except perharps the SOCIAL, ECONOMIC and POLICTICAL rubbish originating from it

 

[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: PandukhT ]

[THOTH]

quote:

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Originally posted by Juggernaut:
regarding intermarriage, inter-dating etc.
I have nothing against inter-dating, and I think this should be promoted in the Armenian community because it expands our horizons in knowledge and also promotes us in other communities.

---

Agree. Absolutely the only statement of any sense you have made here.

quote:

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Originally posted by Juggernaut:
Intermarriage I would not approve of, though I know how strong love maybe.

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So I guess you will be marrying your sister or cousin - as the Armenian gene pool in New Zealand couldn't be all that great. (and with your great looks and personality I'm not sure I would count on atracting anyone outside of the immediate family). Does New Zealand law specify that if you get the girl pregnant (after a rape) you have to marry her...(I'm sorry....thats the Bible...I'm confusing things...)

And as with Artur - Armenians don't need your permission - they will act in their interests (as they always have) and not stick to your straight-jacket conservatism unreal dream world, etc...

quote:

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Originally posted by Juggernaut:
Mind you I have yet to 'fall in love', but a close friends of mine have and the effects are quite compelling. I for one understand that 'love' is simply chemicals messing with your brain , mind you its difficult to turn the tap off .

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Yea, thats the ticket...its simply chemicals, yea, thats right, all you need to know really...(my advice [for you] - stick to sheep...they are much less demanding on you).

quote:

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Originally posted by Juggernaut:
sex - is healthy and fun I'm sorry this may sound sexist , but men should get as much as possible before marriage, but women should stay virgins. I know its bad, but thats my currents stance (it will probably change after marriage).

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No, doesn't sound sexist at all - LOL. OK, could you please cite the Biblical passage that supports your contention...didn't think so (even that sexist piece doesn't quite support you here). So, I'm curious, just who are the men supposed to do it with? (realizing of course our sheep population is nowhere near adequate as yours is...you guys just have all the luck I guess). Or perhaps you are advocating young men and older (marrried?) women? (I'm all for that...good for guys to learn how to please a women...without the married part though...not a good idea in general...unless the husband approves of course...). Anyway, I fail to see the practical application of what I will refer to as "Jubbernuts Law" - men have sex, women do not...oh, it just dawned on me your meaning I think...You are talking GAY SEX! (mano-o-mano as it were) - and here we were prematuraly (perhaps) branding you a closed minded arch conservative type (do you think Artur will approve? Unlikely, as he doesn't even like the thought of sex at all - I think he wants to outlaw it)- must be some aborigninal or Micronesian influence you are drawing upon I guess - some right of manhood where first the boys go through some homosexual period - very popular in some of those cultures I here (and you thought you weren't assimilating any of the local practices...) or perhaps its from your pal/hero Rommel...not too many women in the tanks or foxholes in them days, or perhaps the sheep are already all taken...and as (in your Law) women can't have sex - just who is left...(please elaborate on your (neither so clear nor very fine) Law for us...its application is somewhat confusing.

quote:

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Originally posted by Juggernaut:
Armenian church- I am not much of a church-goer and have only so far read 1/3 of the Bible (I have read the childrens version several times when I was 10 ), but I believe Christianity and being Armenian are inter-twinned. If you are not Christian then you are not Armenian.

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I would agree that Christianity and being Armenian are and have been intertwinned. I would not agree that being a Christian is the do all and end all of being Armenian. And it matters not really what you believe (you live in New Zealand for Heaven's sake!)...like anything anyone from New Zealand might have to say has any bearing on things...I'm not sure that one can be an Armenian and be a New Zealander at the same time...moderators - could we have a ruling on this one? And you say that you don't go to Church? Are you certain that you qualify as an Armenian if you don't go to Church?

quote:

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Originally posted by Juggernaut:
So if you consider America to be 'your' nation, how are you Armenian?

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Yes, I am an American - red, white & blue! And proud of it (How little you know/understand). Has the US always been "right" etc etc etc - look only you and Artur beleive in the possibility of perfection...

How am I Armenian you ask? Do I really have to explain basic biology/genetics for you or trace my lineage & such. I think a very many Armenians would consider me such (most seem to) - particularly all of those whom were saved (and smuggled out of the country) by my family during the Genocide - some very prominent ones in fact...

quote:

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Originally posted by Juggernaut:
And there is nothing great about 'your' nation, except perharps the SOCIAL, ECONOMIC and POLICTICAL rubbish originating from it

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Really now? And you are some expert? Samual P Huntington writing the foreword to your book?

Be careful now - you might anger us. Perhaps your government is a bit too Green (anti-Nuke) for us - we don't like that you know. We have ways of dealing with your type. And we have a bit of an embarrasing economic crisis here at home (Enron - your pals MJ...) and we are looking to divert attention. Bad timing on your part. I'm sure that there are Muslims in New Zealand - or maybe you are undercutting our Leg of Lamb prices - subsidized ranching...down right socialist! And very un-American. I think I'll flood e-mail the White House and my Congressional representatives today. I think I heard we have some new series of bombs to test as well - goody! More night vision footage of things blowing up...you will take cover I hope...

[Mehderian]

Originally posted by Juggernaut:

hehe, man I've been missing out. Thoth, I see you have successfully replaced MJ as the 'high moral figure' on this forum, I wonder if you'll also be able to match his wit . Ok lets get down to business,

 

regarding intermarriage, inter-dating etc.

 

I have nothing against inter-dating, and I think this should be promoted in the Armenian community because it expands our horizons in knowledge and also promotes us in other communities. Intermarriage I would not approve of, though I know how strong love maybe. Mind you I have yet to 'fall in love', but a close friends of mine have and the effects are quite compelling. I for one understand that 'love' is simply chemicals messing with your brain , mind you its difficult to turn the tap off

.How romantic

 

sex - is healthy and fun I'm sorry this may sound sexist , but men should get as much as possible before marriage, but women should stay virgins.How do you propose to acomplish that? Are you promoting homosexuality, or does your sceneario rely the idea of two classes of women? If so, I suppose that second class just serves as receptacle for Man's urges, and then gets thrown away as they are now unfit for marriage. I know its bad, but thats my currents stance (it will probably change after marriage).

 

Armenian church- I am not much of a church-goer and have only so far read 1/3 of the Bible (I have read the childrens version several times when I was 10 ), but I believe Christianity and being Armenian are inter-twinned. If you are not Christian then you are not Armenian.If you value Christianity mainly for social or political influence, than you missed it. It went right over your head. CS Lewis says that this is one of the Satan's most effective tricks for corrupting the patriotic Christian. Of course, Lewis wasn't Armenian so you probably don't care what he has to say.

 

 

 

<<>>>hhaahahahhaha!<<>>

 

Thank you thoth, for providing me with the laugh of the day . So if you consider America to be 'your' nation, how are you Armenian? And there is nothing great about 'your' nation, except perharps the SOCIAL, ECONOMIC and POLICTICAL rubbish originating from it This is vicious, unfounded, unsubstantiated poppycock. It is no coincidence there are no examples of what you are referring to in this deliberately vauge passage. Even as America continues to support and defend people all across the globe, this babble is continually repeated(in various forms)on the internet and elsewhere. Hitler said that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it. I guess he was right.

 

[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: PandukhT ]

[THOTH]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mehderian:This is vicious, unfounded, unsubstantiated poppycock. It is no coincidence there are no examples of what you are referring to in this deliberately vauge passage. Even as America continues to support and defend people all across the globe, this babble is continually repeated(in various forms)on the internet and elsewhere. Hitler said that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it. I guess he was right.
[QB][/QB]

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You said it Mehderian! While we are not perfect (who could be) - and we certainly act in self-interest (who does not) - we are also a generous nation that does (generally) oppose tyranny (and please don't forget our role [& sacrifices] in defeating Hitler, Mussolini & Tojo). I certainly belive the world would be much worse off without the US. What gets me is that people like Juggernaut and others live in and benefit from the economies and ideals of the West (Europe/Americas/Australia/New Zealand/Japan etc) - the enlightend nations of the world - yet claim how horrible we all are (or specifically the US). Well sometimes tough choices must be made - sometimes - as we are all human - wrong choices are made - sometimes bad people are involved etc etc - but overall the US is an overwhelming force for good in our world today - pretty much everything else is just quibbling with details - IMO (and we should quibble and critisize and seak to improve - OK...but really now - would you rerally want China or Russia/Soviet Union or such with a free hand in the world? What is your ideal world order? No order? Yea - sure me too...but there be bad guys out there - really - and it would not remain idealic forever. For some reason there exsists the desire for certain men to dominate over others - to impose their will - to grab powewr..etc etc - ussually for some nationalistic and/or hateful reason. Well, the US and the West - under the current order....Democrocies...at least nominally...are a good check against suich abuses. So what is it you (Jugs) were saying? (we are waiting for your history of the US - can't wait really....LOL)

[Hyeflyer]

In several of the previous post I have seen repeated what I had said in earlier post.There is only one specie of human beings.Quote(There are no human hybreds.)I will have to aggree with the logic it is the puritanical Armenian mind set that drive Armenians from the comunity of other Armenians.Hell you wouldn't except my children their half Prussian.Theres a people that no longer have a country to identify with.

[Juggernaut]

quote

So I guess you will be marrying your sister or cousin - as the Armenian gene pool in New Zealand couldn't be all that great.

 

Gene pool in New Zealand, eh? I didnt think that it took much intelligence to work out that Oz stands for Australia and Sydney is IN Australia. Or have you lived under a rock for the past few year? (Sydney Olympics). As for marrying, if I dont find someone here, then I'll go to Armenia, I was born there, and share the culture so it shouldnt be too difficult.

 

quote

Does New Zealand law specify....

 

I am sorry thoth I do not live in NZ, so I wouldnt know.

 

quote

Armenians don't need your permission

 

I never said they did, I'm just highlighting what I think is the 'right' thing to do.

 

quote

Yea, thats the ticket...its simply chemicals, yea, thats right, all you need to know really

 

Yes, in fact it is chemicals, but then I shouldnt expect much from someone who doesnt know where Sydney is.

 

quote

So, I'm curious, just who are the men supposed to do it with?

 

Again its not my law, but what I presume is right. But to clarify for fools like yourself, men should seek to have sex (with women) before marriage, but women should not (seek sex of any kind). I know this wont work out coz there will be women having sex before marriage to satisfy the mens demand. And homosexuality SHOULD be outlawed.

 

quote

you live in New Zealand for Heaven's sake!)...

 

Once again, I dont live in NZ, but I would rather live there than the States.

 

quote

And you say that you don't go to Church?

 

I go to church for festivites (Easter, Christmas, weddings etc.),

 

quote

Yes, I am an American - red, white & blue! And proud of it

 

I have always wondered what sort of propaganda they feed goats such as yourself in the States. I mean I watch CNN sometimes and I cant really say that it was inspirational. Sure they did many close-ups on your flag (after Sept 11), but then I guess that would be enough.

 

quote

we are waiting for your history of the US - can't wait really

 

I can only start on it in a fortnight, shouldn't take long, after all you dont have much of a history.

[THOTH]

Jugs - Lets see - you don't approve of sex with women - but advocate it for men - but not with other men - I see....guess that just leaves the sheep then - I was right all along. Luckily you have a very many of them in New Zealand...

[Juggernaut]

I am sorry for you THOTH, I really am.

[Hyeflyer]

New Zeland-Where men are men and sheep are nervous.

[Arturian]

Thoth, read my posts carefully as i said nothing about your so-called religion. Your choice, not mine.

 

I ask moderators to delete the part about sex.

 

Geez you have a family, wife ... think!

 

 

Artur

[hasmiek]

wow,

 

this is annoying

 

so what do yoy old fashioned boys do with girls who had sex before marriage...throw rocks at them on some kind of executionsquare?

 

I live with my (non armenian) boyfriend; my parents have no problem with it and neither does the rest of my familiy. Funny how 60 year old people have more understanding for the new ways in the changing society than a you students. shame on ya!

[TigrannesIII]

you live in the netherlands. i think that says it all. you're dutch, not armenian.

[THOTH]

quote:

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Originally posted by ARTURian:
Thoth, read my posts carefully as i said nothing about your so-called religion. Your choice, not mine.

I ask moderators to delete the part about sex.

Geez you have a family, wife ... think!


Artur

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I just read your post very carefully. Are you implying that my religion is somehow non-existant or unworthy of consideration - labeling it as you do "so-called". (And are you taking clues from Turkish academics?)

Well - it is "so-called" Christians like you - who denegrate other religions while promoting their own (as the only possible legitimate one) that really piss me off. But as you are just an uneducated kid I'll let it pass. I only hope (though knowing the chance is slim) that (somehow) you will be able to shake your very narrow mindset and learn to enjoy the pleasures and wonders of your life a little bit (as I believe it is the only life you will ever have...though I'm not sure I can actually disprove reincarnation...)

[THOTH]

Rich - how petty and simple this post makes you look...

 

quote:

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Originally posted by TigrannesIII:

you live in the netherlands. i think that says it all. you're dutch, not armenian.

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[Juggernaut]

quote

so what do yoy old fashioned boys do with girls who had sex before marriage...throw rocks at them

 

No, I think I have stressed this before, it is only what I think is the right thing to do, not my law.

 

quote

Funny how 60 year old people have more understanding for the new ways in the changing society than a you students. shame on ya!

 

I think Sir Winston Churchill will answer this one...

 

"If you are under 35 and are a conservative, then you dont have a heart, but if you are over 35 and are a liberal then you dont have a HEAD" -Sir Winston Churchill (wartime British Prime Minister)

[Arturian]

Thot, i haven't offended your level of intellegence and pls don't you do so as well. About so-called it is so-called daoist, as people call it... no offense... i don't know much about religion, but i will check some net pages for that. So far i was just impressed that there is an armenian practising chinese religion. It is very unusual. But its your problem.

 

Hasmiek, it is your problem what you do or have boyfriends or not. I will not allow my sister to do that and i am sure she won't do that herself. And i would never marry a woman that had been with someone else and won't be able to call her mother of my children. This is my opinion and we shouldn't start this discussions. You may disagree.

 

 

Artur

[TigrannesIII]

Ha! You're the one who tries to call himself Armenian while being in complete opposition to that culture's fundamental principles.

[hasmiek]

So I guess you are the one without the heart…

 

My parents raised two children who both have their MSc dedree. Added to that my brother has graduated from a most respected art school, and I recently got into phd program in the university. Education isn’t everything, I know, but I can say that both my bro and me are good people.

 

My parents know how society works, how human relationships work and how to adapt in a foreign culture without loosing their own cultural heritage. If they had not adapted to the Netherlands my brother and I would NEVER have the opportunities we have now. Tell me, consevatives, do our parents speak proper english? Do your parents understand what you are doing in school and in your free time?

 

You have no respect for people.

Every other culture embraces all the people who are slightly part of it. You conservative Armenians are a shame to us; you are racists. Not only to other cultures (wich is bad enough), but also to Armenians who accept the fact that they live in a country with other values and who partly live by those values.

 

I have lived in holland, in India and in Germany. In every country I took over a part of the local culture, but i never neglected my Armenian traditions. Even in India I found my way to Armenian churches and families. Did I look for Dutch people...no, as i am not Dutch in the first place. And yes, i took some parts of evey culture with me, and that makes me a richer person.

 

And who do you think you are to judge of who is an authentic armenian and who is not. God?

well, boys, I don't think so.

[Juggernaut]

quote

So I guess you are the one without the heart…

 

You could put it that way . I have a few female friends but I have never been in a 'relationship'.

 

quote

do our parents speak proper english?

 

Are you implying that my parents are uneducated? How about this: My mother graduated from Novosibirsk university (best in USSR), which during Soviet times was considered the equal if not better than Harvard and Oxford, she has since then acquired and Phd and a doctorship in economical mathematics. Before we came to Australia she was the HEAD OF FOREIGN RELATIONS/TRANSACTIONS DEPARMENT OF THE RESERVE BANK OF ARMENIA. My father is an engineering grad of Erevan polytechnic insititute (its engineering faculty was one of the best in the USSR). And after only being 8 years in Australia he owns/manages an exponentially growing construction company with an annual turn-over in the tens of millions (the company has only been in operation for 2.5 years). My fathers level of english was zero when we arrived, and 95% of the people he now works with are not Armenian. Myself: I do not have any brothers or systers. I graduated from the oldest and one of the most respected high schools in NSW (largest population in Australia) and was in top 4% of the State in university admission. Some other graduates of my school include: Sir ..... Evatt (1st PRESIDENT of the UN, sorry I forget hist 1st name), Sir Edmund Barton (1st Prime Minister of Australia) and many others..... sorry if I got carried away, but I think its time you crawled under a rock and stayed there.

[Juggernaut]

quote

You conservative Armenians are a shame to us; you are racists.

 

Plese quote me anywhere on this forum before calling me a racist.

 

quote

And who do you think you are to judge of who is an authentic armenian and who is not.

 

For the hundredth time what I said before was not the LAW , but my understanding of what is right.

[hasmiek]

"your understanding of what is right?"

 

yes, i see; Hiler undersood it was right to kill 6 million jewish people...just to say that some people have a strange idea of what is right!

 

congratilations with the smartness of your mom; did she give up on teaching you some sense?

 

but really...cralw under a rock...no thank's i'm still young and have big plans. Seems like you are already living onder a huge dirty rock, if you had seen more life and love you wouldn't have this particular " understanding of what is right", but maybe a more loving one.

[TigrannesIII]

You want to talk education? I come from a family of attorneys, my mother is a nurse, and I go to one of the best universities in the USA, and I will leave with a masters from one of the best programs in my field.

As for not neglecting your Armenian culture? Oh, yes, you have. From all the people from Hindusdan that I know, they act alot more like Armenians- they dont go off living with white guys. Yes, your parents should have adapted a little, but they are fully assimilated if they are not chastising you. It is you liberal 'Armenians' who are destorying the diaspora.

How can you ever call yourself Armenian if you can't even live by a few of the principles?

[khodja]

Tigrannes III,

 

We should maintain the good parts of our culture and reject the bad. Most of the bad is not part of the original Armenian culture anyway. By advocating the maintenance of those aspects of our culture you are driving many Armenians out of our community. It is the conservative Armenians who drove my father, the grandson of an Amira, to become literally an odar, changing his name religion and approach to life. He emerged a quintessential American, Protestant, harboring no accent (years of phonetic lessons), and with an Anglo name. With his fair hair and green eyes he passed easily as a Northern European. He rarely divulged his heritage. It was you conservative Armenians harboring the negative aspects of the Armenian psyche that drove him to this.