TigrannesIII Posted January 30, 2002 Report Share Posted January 30, 2002 quote:Originally posted by hagarag:Tigrannes III,We should maintain the good parts of our culture and reject the bad. Most of the bad is not part of the original Armenian culture anyway. By advocating the maintenance of those aspects of our culture you are driving many Armenians out of our community. It is the conservative Armenians who drove my father, the grandson of an Amira, to become literally an odar, changing his name religion and approach to life. He emerged a quintessential American, Protestant, harboring no accent (years of phonetic lessons), and with an Anglo name. With his fair hair and green eyes he passed easily as a Northern European. He rarely divulged his heritage. It was you conservative Armenians harboring the negative aspects of the Armenian psyche that drove him to this.Tell me what 'other' Armenian culture would permit some of the stuff that goes on today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdcheung Posted January 30, 2002 Report Share Posted January 30, 2002 Bleh!!! the format is all screwy!...One needs a 33inch Monitor to read this!!!fix the format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted January 30, 2002 Report Share Posted January 30, 2002 quote:Originally posted by sdcheung:Bleh!!!the format is all screwy!...One needs a 33inch Monitor to read this!!!fix the format.Sorry the best i can do is for 24" Monitors naw i have deleted 2 or 3 "quotes" sorry - that bla bal + he he he + hi hi hed some problem...MOvses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdcheung Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 Kids: Just don't walk in on your parents doing it...it may scar you for life. From THOTH: Kids - if your reading this - sex is (generally) good - it can be very good in fact - it is a really good thing in general - in addition to being anecessary for the survival of our species and a precondition (in most cases) to beginning and perpetuation of a family. But it is (decidedly) a grown up thing - because it is not a simple thing that you become invlved with when it comes to sex - there are many (potential)complications and issues , a great many - and any decision regarding such is a big one (for your life) and you don't want to mess it up. And it also requires maturity to understand all the emotional aspects of relationships that become sexually involved. You should not enter inot such a relationship before your truly ready and before the right situation and partner present themselves. You owe it to yourself to do it right so that (eventually) it will be a good thing for you to and not a source of (potentially very serious) problems for you. For all of these reasons I suggest you speak heart to heart with your parents (or some other adult(s) that you trust...maybe even a teacher at school, or perhaps even a priest [but be careful there]) for guidance before becoming sexually active/involved - hopefully they will not be like Artur - but will be understanding and able to correctly advise and help you to make the right decision. Please don't take/make such decisions lightly. Its more then just playing around. And there are many good reasons to wait until you are truly ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasmiek Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 oh yes, of course. living in armenia makes the one and true armenian! about the hindoes not unning of with a white boy.........most indian kids have prepared marriages. so they have to marry someone they hardly know and mostly don't love (yet).Sometimes the kids have an eye on some one they would like to marry.you would't believe the teenage suicide number; everyday there were dozens of suicides of 'unofficial' couples, who would rather die than live apart. That is the only way they can escape from living with someone they don't love and want to be in. At leat we have got a choise here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 Hasmeik all it takes to be in Armenian is having at least one parent who is full or part Armenian. Period. Nothing more, nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 quote:Originally posted by hasmiek:so what makes someone an Armenian?1. having an armenian name2. having 2 armenian parents3. having one armenian parent4. talking the armenian language5. knowing how to read and write armenian6. going to an armenian church7. eating armenian food8. having armenian friends9. living by the bibleand what unarmenians some one?having sex before marriage....having a non armenian (wo)man?...Hasmik jan don't be so hard on your self, just do your best to stay closest to your native roots.Hasmik jan you are here, in a Armenian forum, that means you are involved, you do care. years a go i gat hold of a article> Armenian Woman are more likely to keep the family with Armenian traditions than a man, specially when a Armenian woman is marred to an ODAR, Armenian women are more dominant in relation, and kids do fallow there mothers side most of the time. what can we do when some one gets involved with none Armenian. we cant just reject the person/s, i do not believe that anyone, and i mean ANYONE has the right to tell you - your not a Armenian if you happened to marry a ODAR. you are a Armenian, and your location has nothing to do, you can be in India and be Armenian, you can be in Afghanistan and be a Armenian, it's what you believe in, what you stand for.Kerg Krikoryan has Benn marred to at list 2 odars he is still an Armenian, Sharl Andznavur is marred to an odar, he is a Armenian and we are proud them, what makes anyone so different then this tow so don't worry HAsmik jan, and before i forget Welcome to HyeForum, and enjoy your stay. MOvses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 Tigrannes III, There were times in Armenian history that the progressives flourished. Tigrankert under Tigran was a city where artisans of all types, including prosperous Jews, went about their daily lives and enriched the culture of the community. Same for Ani, Julfa and a few othercities in their heyday. The arts and literature flourished during these times. There were also brief periods when benevolent Armenian leaders encouraged diversity in religious thought. The freedoms enjoyed by the Paulicians and Tondrakians, their socialistsic offshoot, were short lived however. The conservative Armenians who create so much misery were not always as powerful as they are today. What idiots they were to sabotage the Democratic Armenian Assembly candidate in Glendale for the Republican loser. This in a Democratic majority district. Mangassarian should be tarred and feathered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasmiek Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 so what makes someone an Armenian?1. having an armenian name2. having 2 armenian parents3. having one armenian parent4. talking the armenian language5. knowing how to read and write armenian6. going to an armenian church7. eating armenian food8. having armenian friends9. living by the bible and what unarmenians some one? having sex before marriage....having a non armenian (wo)man? ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 Don't worry too much about being an armenian because that doesn't mean your a bad or good person, instead worry about being a descent person with good morals. Bottem line is who you are as an individual. P.S.If one of you're greatparents or parents is armenian, then armenian people will say that you're an armenian. [ January 31, 2002: Message edited by: henry ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arturian Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 Hasmiek, there are many definitions what makes an armenian - armenian. One is that if your father is armenian then you are armenian4life or mother... you will still have armenian blood in you. Armenians have their own values and traditions, and i believe they are only to be proud of. If you reject those or disagree that will immediatly make you to be anti-armenian, as you spit at what your forefathers died and lived for. And this will disturb those armenians who respect these values and attitudes and they will say that you are not an armenian. I believe every armenian should respect what their nation fought and died for, and be proud of that. Otherwise you will be placed in the same sit with a turk who can only throw rubish at what we have. So one is blood and another is respect and pride what make an armenian - armenian. This is my pro-armenian definition Best of luck!Artur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnumPHye Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 If you are a young guy, have some fun first. Don't go for color, pride or ethnic culture. Go for any beautiful girl you can spend money on and lay your hands on. I am still having fun with fine looking Mexican girls, and not yet willing to settle with an Armenian wife yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasmiek Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 You should seriously reconsider the "having premarital sex" part, because some of the young Armenians that I know might participate in a championship where Houston 600 would look like silly childish game!!! He, He, He... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arturian Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 Well, it is just a matter of choice. Wanna have a clean wife, go for a virgin. If not, then better go for a prostitute... there is no difference... and you won't lose but will gain very good experienced woman for the rest of your life. ))) BTW, i can't believe you are still discussing this topic. This topic was up somewhat 1 year already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 So Artur - is a man a prostitute if he has sex before marraige (in your opinion)? I personnally don't see the difference/distinction. And I don't see either as being a prostitute (I suggest you look up the definition in Oxford's finest) You said it was/is a matter of choice - sex before or after marraige (or in your case seemingly not at all) - yet you show absolutly no respect for the choice that very many people have made. What you don't understand is that relationships and family have changed/evolved from your strict model. This is just the way it is (and pretty much will be - unless of course it changes even more). Your applying outdated lables from the past does nothing but highlight your own ignorance. Mankind has moved away from a strict one to one lifetime relationship towards different varients - including serial. This has been occuring for some time - certainly led by the West (and by the welthier classes). I for one wish I had even more sex then I even did before marraige (or just in general)...not that I am complaining per se (but I might have had a more conservative approach to sex & relationships at that time thenI would now in hindsight - relationship first etc...wheras now I just wished I might have banged more and a larger variety of gals! LOL - sory gals if that seems sexist or whatever [though I personnaly hold you to no different standard...even if society still does to some degre]). And I am glad that my wife had good experiences before me (makes all those compliments all the more meaningful...LOL) - seriously - I neither begrudge her experiences or past lovers, nor am I jealous of them in any way - and in fact believe they are/were a good thing for her (and for us). In no way would anyone who knows her ever suggest that she behaves or has behaved in any way like a prostitute (except for uniformed know-nothings like yourself). So please practice what you claim to preach - that its individual choice - and quit being so judgemental of others. (and just wait until you have children of your own....ha! Though of course having children is ussually precluded by having sex...don't wait too long...you may find no women wants you [perhaps the case already] or that your "equipment" may no longer work properly... And please - don't also put down prostitution as (necessarily) such bad thing (will you claim it has not existed through history - that it is some recent phenomenon?) Though I do share your revulsion for underage and forced (economic)prostitution and the nasty lifestyle/environment that comes from prostitution being illegal. Obviously, for a variety of different reasons (certain) men (and even women) rely on prostitution for their sexual satisfaction...nothing wrong with it in and of itself (IMO) - though it bespeaks of some irregularities/missed oppurtunities in relationships with the opposite sex - some may be socialy caused, others due to personality etc and others circumstance. Now I don't suppose you are suggesting that these folks initiate same sex relations - so just what do you suggest for their sexual outlet? Though I have never partook myself - my friends who have had experiences with prostitutes seem to all have had fairly satisfying experiences. I actually once had the oppurtunity (? - was offered) to become a male prostitue (for wealthy older women) BTW (in school days long ago) - it didn't interest me in the least - though (the entire phenomenon) intrigued me...An aquaintence of mine was one - I found him to be a very amusing person from my perspective (a somewhat cheaper American Gigilo if any are at all familiar with the movie...I'm just not that into grooming, fancy dress, the hustling lifestyle etc...nor into sex for money - particularly with [sometimes much] older ladies). LOL. He certainly made good money (particularly from my perspective at the time...where I was working several jobs washing dishes and such to put myself through school...). So you see - it is perhaps a legititmate career choice for some...though not one I would recommend (for a variety of reasons)...except perhaps in some circumstances.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasmiek Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 in some older cultures people would have sex before marriage, and get married when the woman was pregnant....so the man could be more sure that he would have an offspring. [this puts the women in a not so pretty place if she (or he) is unfertile, but still...] but of course our armenian ubermensch finds that disgusting... you are lucky that still find you a young and naivi boy; I don't take your remarks personally. If you so much believe in God, you show show more respect to people, after all that's what God is mostly about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LISA Posted February 7, 2002 Report Share Posted February 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by hasmiek:in some older cultures people would have sex before marriage, and get married when the woman was pregnant....so the man could be more sure that he would have an offspring. [this puts the women in a not so pretty place if she (or he) is unfertile, but still...] but of course our armenian ubermensch finds that disgusting...you are lucky that still find you a young and naivi boy; I don't take your remarks personally. If you so much believe in God, you show show more respect to people, after all that's what God is mostly about.or even the the problem can be on the male's end. Nonetheless a silly tradition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted February 7, 2002 Report Share Posted February 7, 2002 Arturian, my friend, A Woman is clean when she takes a shower. (We both do this before and after...). The question is weather marring a virgin would be enough to make you happy. You might be perfectly happy with a woman who had many relationships (ultimately many sexual relationships). That doesn't mean that I would encourage anybody to marry a prostitute, not because of her "profession", but because of the bad habits that that "profession" can bring into the family "nest". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 7, 2002 Report Share Posted February 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by gamavor:That doesn't mean that I would encourage anybody to marry a prostitute, not because of her "profession", but because of the bad habits that that "profession" can bring into the family "nest".And then on top of that, you'd have to pay for something that you should get for free when you are married. I know, that was completely uncalled for but I couldn't resist. Plus, another chance to use that Smilie (one of my favorites) [ February 06, 2002: Message edited by: Sip ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigrannesIII Posted February 7, 2002 Report Share Posted February 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by hasmiek:so what makes someone an Armenian?1. having an armenian name2. having 2 armenian parents3. having one armenian parent4. talking the armenian language5. knowing how to read and write armenian6. going to an armenian church7. eating armenian food8. having armenian friends9. living by the bibleand what unarmenians some one?having sex before marriage....having a non armenian (wo)man?...you should really look at 9 again. You spit on my martyred ancestors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arturian Posted February 7, 2002 Report Share Posted February 7, 2002 Wow, what is this. ganing out on me hasmiek, what disrespectful i said against anybody? it is groundless for you to say that. Gamavor, the word clean (armenian "makur" ) means a girl being clean before her husband. I believe i will pass this question. It will be Weel power -2 Thoth, and i don't see a difference between a prostitute and a girl who had relations before marriage. The only minor difference is that prostitute gets paid, but that's not significant Thoth, mankind moved? Are you sure? There can't be a move. These are morals, and they were established from the first day of existence of man. They don't change. Man, i am nobody to judge your wife or you. It is your problem. But in my case i will be sleeping without thoughts that a mother of my children was used by some blacks. No offence... Man, you are so different. Previously you said you are very much moral guy. Bro, under what religion you are very much moral. From christian point of view, sorry you are total opposite of almost every law. Hasmiek, there is one case, that a man can get married to a woman (according to religion and armenian traditions). And it is when a husband of a woman died and she had left with child or without. My far uncle married to this type of woman, her husband died in earthquake in 88. hasmiek, naivity you refer to is only from your point of view. in the society i live people lived like that for thousands of years. All my brothers and elders had the same views, it is not what i came up with. So please define why am i naive. Hagarag, Tigranness is not judging, he is explaining and defending his point of view. Note, neither me nor Tigranness said something like "it is wrong what you are doing, you will go to hell for that". No! We say, it is your choice to do what you want to do, but look at different angle and evaluate for yourself. Bless you all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasmiek Posted February 7, 2002 Report Share Posted February 7, 2002 hi artur, I think you are naive because of your black-whiteness.When you think something is wright and according to your lifestyle, then is perfect, but when something is different from that then it's completely unacceptable. It might be unacceptable to you, but, and please take this seriously, it doesn't give you the right to judge on people so harshly. And you can't name a woman a prostitute like that, it's rude! And the fact that you don't think it's rude is naive to me.and the fact that you don't see the connection between love and sex, is naive to me; a prostitute doesn't love her costumer! There are so many shades of gray in the world; what if a woman leaves her man because he's not faithfull to her , or when he beats her...doesn't she have the right to leave him then? And what if a girl is raped; is she also a prostitute to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LISA Posted February 7, 2002 Report Share Posted February 7, 2002 Only an very INSECURE worthles woman with NO SELFESTEEM and NO PRIDE will stay with a man that has cheated on her!!! Men that cheat are worthless anyhow. Cheating is a sign of weakmindedness. Comparing prostitues to women who have had previous relationships is the silliest thing I have ever heard. While I don't think highly of either gender sleeping around, I think that is just a very juvinille and immature thing to say. I can't even credit any thought going in to it. Let the debates begin!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arturian Posted February 7, 2002 Report Share Posted February 7, 2002 First, i said there is no difference between them, i didn't say she is or she is not prositute. The thing i am refering to is having "relations" before marriage. So there is no difference in that aspect. I am not judging you and your lifestyle. It is your problem not mine (if there is a problem). I am putting my point of view and that's it. This point of view is a religious and traditional armenian. If i see a woman that had relations before marriage for me she goes to category i was explaining and there is no way i can consider living with her. hasmiek, i am not here to preach teach or judge or whatsoever. The only girls that i teach and say what to do and what is good and bad are my sisters. I explained my point of view i asked not to start discussions as we have discussed it many times. Search the board and you will find answers. BTW, if you really want to know what makes "an Armenian girl an Armenian" go to this forum : http://www.hayastan.com/forum . I hope you understand russian. If not basically, there is a girl talk totally different from this forum, and they defend the point opposite of yours and talk about being modest shy, i.e. Armenian mentality, giving examples of russian and western girls and how it is unacceptable for an average Armenian girl to follow that way. So that doesn't make me naive or hypocrite or sexist as you may think. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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