ara baliozian Posted April 1, 2001 Report Share Posted April 1, 2001 WHAT I THINK I UNDERSTAND ABOUT GOD+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++The only way to explain why God created certain men is to say, so that He will have the pleasure of sending them to hell. And if you were to evoke the free will argument by saying God sends no one to hell; rather, it is man himself who chooses to go there freely, I will be more than happy to amend my assertion thus: The only way to explain why God gave men a free will is to say, so that He may have the pleasure of seeing some of them go to hell by their own free choice. Prayer, a theologian once said, is not talking to God but listening to Him. That may be because, when a man opens his mouth, the chances are, he will utter nonsense. Hence the old saying: "When God wants to punish a man, He answers his prayers." Since the beginning of time, countless men have spoken in the name of God, but has anyone ever acted with His wisdom? If an Armenian Moses ever climbs Mt. Ararat, has a palaver with the Burning Bush, and comes down with a new Decalogue, I have every reason to suspect, "Thou shalt eradicate the Turk within!" Faith: that which allows fools and fanatics to murder the wise and the innocent for the greater Glory of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 AIN’T THAT THE TRUTH!********************************A series of complex mathematical equations makes sense only to a mathematician. Life being far more complicated than the most complex mathematical equation, it should not come as a surprise to anyone that there are so many disoriented and confused dupes who look up to charlatans for guidance.-------------------- ara baliozian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 ON CLOSED SYSTEMS AND MINDS+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Mankind loves closed systems of thought (religions, ideologies) that claim to have all the answers. Which may suggest that most people don’t like thinking for themselves.Bernard Shaw once remarked that he had made an international reputation by simply taking the trouble to think once or twice a year.The average Armenian is perfectly content to be told what to think by someone who claims to know better;and every other Armenian you meet these days parades as an expert on any given subject, from abracadabra to Zoroastrianism.-------------------- ara baliozian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffiaharonian Posted April 6, 2001 Report Share Posted April 6, 2001 Ara, maybe you have read Terzaki's "Dixos Theo" ("without God".) I was thrilled with his lifitime conclusions and answerless "questions' about life and the existence of God, which he so vividly elaborates in the book. If I could summarise (and if I've got it right) , his basic idea was that he was convinced (or wanted to be), that God didn't exist , but after studying Man and his behaviour , he concluded that the 'Existence of God' was crusial to the mental and ethical development of man, otherwise we could as well end-up with King Solomon's "mateotis mateotiton, ta panda mateotis"- "Vein,......, everything is in vein". Man is so weak and so low , that unless we have the Perfection , it would be in vein to continue striving for a better world and a better future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted April 6, 2001 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2001 I agree!If god doesn’t existwe must assume he does, andhe is our father;which also means we are all brothers.But it does not follow that any human being is authorized or qualified or licensed to speak in the name of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 WHAT I THINK I UNDERSTAND ABOUT GOD +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The only way to explain why God created certain men is to say, so that He will have the pleasure of sending them to hell. And if you were to evoke the free will argument by saying God sends no one to hell; rather, it is man himself who chooses to go there freely, I will be more than happy to amend my assertion thus: The only way to explain why God gave men a free will is to say, so that He may have the pleasure of seeing some of them go to hell by their own free choice. Obviously Ara you think of God as a mean and mediocre man, quite an ignorant view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davit Khachatryan Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 The only way to explain why God created certain men is to say, so that He will have the pleasure of sending them to hell. And if you were to evoke the free will argument by saying God sends no one to hell; rather, it is man himself who chooses to go there freely, I will be more than happy to amend my assertion thus: The only way to explain why God gave men a free will is to say, so that He may have the pleasure of seeing some of them go to hell by their own free choice. Ara, the Bible says that "...the Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance..." -- 2 Peter 3:9 The Bible also says in Romans 9:20-21: "But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?'' Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?" Have you read the Bible Ara? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 ON CLOSED SYSTEMS AND MINDS +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mankind loves closed systems of thought (religions, ideologies) that claim to have all the answers. Which may suggest that most people don’t like thinking for themselves. Bernard Shaw once remarked that he had made an international reputation by simply taking the trouble to think once or twice a year. The average Armenian is perfectly content to be told what to think by someone who claims to know better; and every other Armenian you meet these days parades as an expert on any given subject, from abracadabra to Zoroastrianism. -------------------- ara baliozian BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Made my thoughts gain the form that you so masterfully shaped into words. MJ you rock! May I add that it is much easier to live by clearly defined rules and guidance than to face the journey of life with your 2 cents, an open mind, lust for knowledge and an ability to apply analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 The average Armenian is perfectly content to be told what to think by someone who claims to know better; and every other Armenian you meet these days parades as an expert on any given subject, from abracadabra to Zoroastrianism. -------------------- ara baliozian I agree with the second part of the statement. But it kind of contradicts the first part. Since Armenians "parade as experts" they don't acknowledge someone else to know better than they do even if it's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 I agree! If god doesn’t exist we must assume he does, and he is our father; which also means we are all brothers. But it does not follow that any human being is authorized or qualified or licensed to speak in the name of God. we must assume that he does? i don't think so... he is our father? how can you say someone is your father when you don't know whether or not "he" exists, or when you are assuming that he exists? moreover, why is god in the bible a "he"? ever wondered about that? ever thought that the entire system of judeo-christian belief/faith might based on institutionalised, patriarchal power hierarchies? and if we are all brothers, how come do we attack one another so often, and kill one another? i thought god created us in his image.... oh right, but he gave us the mind.. but wait, so that must mean that we ARE beings independent of god's will then... so wouldn't that be contradictory to what is mentioned in the bible, about god creating man in his image, i.e. having a good character, etc.? so are we to believe that the mind is basically equated to the devil or satan? and if yes, then all our creations and civilizations (without which we might not survive, at this point. i.e. without electricity, medication, etc.) are basically evil... so we must get rid of them... but if we do, then we might have to get rid of life... hmm... so how is life god-given? and why do so many religious institutions insist that suicide is wrong? moreover, didn't god give us the mind and the free will? and for what, if not to choose our own fate AND faith? are we bound to god and his system of belief (supposedly jesus christ), or can we not have our own faith systems apart from the "god-given" one (i.e. christianity)? otherwise we could as well end-up with King Solomon's "mateotis mateotiton, ta panda mateotis"- "Vein,......, everything is in vein". yes, everything is in vein (sic) for us... i thought our entire life depended on it.. As for vanity and belief/faith, i don't think they're in any way relevant.. i.e. there are a lot of atheists who are not materialistic, and who can survive just as well as devout christians or other believers.. and who defines what vanity is? if materialistic things are vain in christianity (according to Solomon), so what? christianity has not been proven to be the "correct" religion, and if THAT is the definition of vanity (i.e. lack of faith) in christianity, then i'm afraid it only applies to probably less than half the world... it is just like saying that if you're not a christian, you're an infidel (example - not saying that you're saying that). well, that's according to YOUR system of beliefs, not mine. my system of belief might say something else.. and are we to assume that god approved of the crusades and their massacre of the "infidels", when he "him"self supposedly gave us the mind/brain and free will? if yes, then i'm afraid god is one hell(sic) of a self-contradictory "guy", with all due respect to "his" followers.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Made my thoughts gain the form that you so masterfully shaped into words. MJ you rock! May I add that it is much easier to live by clearly defined rules and guidance than to face the journey of life with your 2 cents, an open mind, lust for knowledge and an ability to apply analysis. Credit goes to Ara Baliozian! not to take anything away from the brilliant way MJ copied and pasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted December 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 i have read enough of the Bible to know that even the devil can quote him in his favor (according to Shakespeare). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted December 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 Obviously Ara you think of God as a mean and mediocre man, quite an ignorant view. when it comes to god i tend to agree with Buddhists (who did not find it necessary to believe in his existence). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 we must assume that he does? i don't think so... he is our ====== and if we are all brothers, how come do we attack one mentioned in the bible, about god creating man in his image Sireli Taniel, Forgive me as I am a student of the western Armenian, not really. :) Whoever told you that God created man/woman in his/her image? Don't tell me! You saw it in that Book of lies! Read that Book again and see how many images of God there are, sometimes in the same "verse". Is it not more correct to say that "man/woman creates(d) God in their own image? Some people may think God is a standup comic. Obviously not you! Until and unless we rid ourselves of that narrow definition of that non-Christian, unforgiving and vindictive God we will be doomed to "hell and brimstone". OUR VINDICTIVE GOD is ARAMAZT who will, vindicate us over Turan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 You saw it in that Book of lies! that is exactly what I am getting at, Arpa.. I am criticizing the bible and all organized religion.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted December 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 I agree with the second part of the statement. But it kind of contradicts the first part. Since Armenians "parade as experts" they don't acknowledge someone else to know better than they do even if it's true. yes, i agree there is a contradiction. but when one deals with charlatans and phonies it is not always easy to tell what is the statement and what is the contradiction. one could say that a phony is a living/walking contradiction...because he pretends to be the opposite of what he really is, yes? / ara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted December 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 Ara, maybe you have read Terzaki's "Dixos Theo" ("without God".) sorry, never heard of Terzaki. tell me more. / ara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davit Khachatryan Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 i have read enough of the Bible to know that even the devil can quote him in his favor (according to Shakespeare). so you beleive that devil exists ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 I believe different cultures approach God with deferent attitudes and paths but in the end they all talking about the same thing. Buddhists especially Zen branch is a direct way to approach, sense of detachment and ego less state of mind. Same feeling also exists in esoteric Christianity expressed by St Augustine and others. In Islam Sufi practice comes to mind. These are all channels, which lead to certain place, or state of mind. In that place pictures, sermons, places, stories no longer exist but pure being. I believe all the avenues are intended for us as a vehicle to transplant to a place where ultimately one realizes the falsity of Ego and all it’s trappings. The bible is not a book of lies but book of allegories, riddles, wisdom that is open for interpretation. It originated by people who placed great importance to the written words hence all the stories etc. but in the East actual practice supersedes words or words do not mean anything without meditation. Different, but in greater distance not so different after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 The transcendent is unknowable and unknown. God is transcendent, finally, of anything like the name "God." God is beyond names and forms . . . . The mystery of life is beyond all human conception . . . . We always think in terms of opposites. But God, the ultimate, is beyond the pairs of opposites . . . . Eternity is beyond all categories of thought . . . . God is a thought. God is a name. God is an idea. But its reference is to something that transcends all thinking. The ultimate mystery of being is beyond all categories of thought. Joseph Campbell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 (edited) Armat, you are a hope for religion, your view show us that something of benefit could arise from it. You know what I find so misterious beside conscienceness that evolved animals possess(more particularly humans) ? Fate. Not only fate associated with a divinity, but fate in everything... fate is what makes reality what it is... Fate is what our society is. Fate is the instrument of conscienceness to build our reality. Think about that, from the little atom we discovered from galaxies we study, we had fate on what we did, we had fate on the existance of things... the scientific that research something has fate of finding it... fate is so misterious. Conscienceness is the artist and fate is his brush. You believe in it, the believe is the medium by which conscienceness paint and creat reality. Religion is not misterious, what is misterious is the reason why religion exist, this reason is our particularity of having fate on something. Edited December 13, 2003 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Domino I believe in fate as you described it but I do not believe in fate as something predetermined for an individual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Domino I believe in fate as you described it but I do not believe in fate as something predetermined for an individual. Armat jan I think Domino means "faith" (or maybe not) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Armat jan I think Domino means "faith" (or maybe not) Interesting thread - at least, how it's turned out Sasun, you have developed a very keen sense of recognizing Fadispeak - for it is 'Faith' he was referring to, and not 'Fate'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Sasun, you have developed a very keen sense of recognizing Fadispeak - for it is 'Faith' he was referring to, and not 'Fate'. Yeah, don't be surprised to read my post and think it is Domino talking (because of Faditalking) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.