Yervant1 Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Dear Yervant, I don't have an understanding problem. But you seem to have a reading problem. More important than "our" personal problems, which do verge on being insulting by the way, the post would be better served if the questions I posed were actually answered. I'll leave up to the readers to decide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Gentlemen, ladies, I strongly suggest you read the various articles on Hetq.am about Armenoturco relations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 (edited) Gentlemen, ladies, I strongly suggest you read the various articles on Hetq.am about Armenoturco relations. How ironic!!! (His word as well, he also uses the word “farce“.) Even if the roles and the actors have reversed, History repeats!! See what a certain Gevork wrote in response to an article in Hetq. Finding a New Raison d’Etre” ----- Gevork Says: October 16th, 2009 at 14:23 Of course, diaspora lobbying is not only outdated but misdirected. But the diaspora has never seen the need to do more than symbolic lobbying…until now. The diaspora has been jolted out of its cozy slumber and sees that the RoA and the world is passing it by. What to do? It protests the protocols and President Sargsyan but offers no tangible alternatives. Why? Because it has long given up on seriously struggling for repatriation rights to eastern Anatolia. Let someone else do the dirty-work. We’ll sit here in Paris, Beirut and LA and scream bloody murder. Maybe those same Western powers that broke their promises to the Armenian people in favor of more lucrative deals with the newly emerging Kemalist forces will now have a change of heart and help us…even though we ourselves have no idea what will satisfy us. How ironic and sad that this pretentious flare-up between the Diaspora and the RoA remains similar to the farce that took place at the Paris Peace Conference when there were two competing delegations vying for scraps at the negotiations table – one lead by Boghos Nubar P****, for the diaspora/western Armenia, and the other led by Avetis Aharonian for the first RoA. It was a farce then and lo and behold some 90 years later the Armenian nation finds itself in the same predicament. We, as a people, haven’t advanced one iota. Edited October 16, 2009 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 yes yerku~yereq or e nayum em te inch eq xosum, asetsy indznits mets eq mi xelatsy ban k@m@tatseq, bayst te Bajanumits yev vejerits batsy ban chem tesnum, mi tasnyak mard enq es forumum mi gaghapari shurj chenq karroghanum hanadziynel.. el ur mnats Spyur yev Hayastan yev n@rants mijev @nkats kusaktsutyunern yev kazmakerputyuner@ karroghanan ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Em Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Thank you Yervand for your input on this topic. I feel like an adult stepped into the "room". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 nor m@tqovs mi ban er antsnum, yet e es groghi tarats protocol@ chstoragrever, inch k@Liner ardyoq ?? rusastan@ inch astijan k@patjer hayastanin ?? dimats@ dzmer, tsurt ? janaparhner@ norist k@paker, hosnkq@ k@ktrer, gaz@ k@ktrer... amen inch el kaner.. isk ov k@tujver ?? joghovurd@, miyayn yev miyayn joghovurd@, chinovninik & oligarx@ irenst g@lxi jar@ k@tesneyin , isk joghovurd@ norits sovi & tsurty dem pit payqarer... isk menq nstats taquk tan mej, papuk bazmotsin, surj@ mek koghmum, compyutr@ muys koghmum, @entaniq@ apahovvats, Hayrenaser HAyrenaser k@xaghanq internetum... che balam mi urish lutsum pit lini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z'areh Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 (edited) nor m@tqovs mi ban er antsnum, yet e es groghi tarats protocol@ chstoragrever, inch k@Liner ardyoq ?? rusastan@ inch astijan k@patjer hayastanin ?? dimats@ dzmer, tsurt ? janaparhner@ norist k@paker, hosnkq@ k@ktrer, gaz@ k@ktrer... amen inch el kaner.. isk ov k@tujver ?? joghovurd@, miyayn yev miyayn joghovurd@, chinovninik & oligarx@ irenst g@lxi jar@ k@tesneyin , isk joghovurd@ norits sovi & tsurty dem pit payqarer... isk menq nstats taquk tan mej, papuk bazmotsin, surj@ mek koghmum, compyutr@ muys koghmum, @entaniq@ apahovvats, Hayrenaser HAyrenaser k@xaghanq internetum... che balam mi urish lutsum pit lini Mosjan, If these protocols weren't signed by Armenia the collective wrath of Superpowers would have descended on Armenia's head. The Americans would have been humiliated, The Russians economic plans would have been scuttled. And the Turks would have laughed, not that they are not laughing now. When Serj Sarksian runs to the superpowers and tells them he'd do anything to stay in power, how can he not sign the by-product of that duplicity. Of course they'd be pissed mad, and the country would suffer. All the more reason to be angry about this "done deal" How can one be so blind about this reality, but that's just me and my "juvenile" opinion, perhaps an adult can enlighten us, with some real content. Edited October 17, 2009 by Z'areh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 zareh jan ghurban@T heerrr es neghanum E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 there was an article in today's zaman turkish news paper that supposedly pkk members living in armenia are fleeing the country (armenia)... i wonder if turkey is going to pressure armenia to take steps against alleged pkk cells in armenia and now have kurds (possibely local yezdis) turned against armenians... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellektor Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 (edited) Hellektor - I never said we are unimportant. Yes, we are disadvantaged (we are small, poor and landlocked) but not irrelevent or unimportant. We simply lack the power to demand the acknowledgement of our importance. And nobody is going to shout out "Armenia! You are important! We just don't want to admit it so that we can keep you under our thumb and pursue our own agendas! Oh and at the same time pretend to be doing YOU a favor." When, one day, we DO grab hold of the steel ladle ... that will be a different story. I wasn't picking at you particularly. I was pointing out one of our greatest shortages, that's why, for the nth time I copy/pasted my patented ugly whore/Turkey comparison. Turks are worthless garbage yet they are represented in the media 24/7 as a modern, secular, European, free, democratic, growing, country. Menk mer ghimet@ chenk gidi. We are the nice little docile dog of Russia and the bear with the largest ass in the world has helped the Turks with the successful extermination of 90% of the Armenian nation and the occupation of 90% of our home, in a century and a half or so. The SoBs recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia yet they shut the hell up regarding Artsakh which they gave fake “Azerbaijan” in 1921. I'm not saying they recognize Artsakh, I expect at least a neutral stance, not a blatantly pro-Turkish one. Turkey was under heavy pressure to open the border in order to enter EU. We didn't have to pave their way sacrificing Հայ Դատ with a stroke of pen so that, that cabbage-head Nalbandyan with a Jew wife could kiss the cow-bitch with a facelift induced fake smile on the cheek or whose cheek could be fondled by the Eurofag Solana. Just think of the Jugha khachkars, the total indifference of the Armenian statesmen and the constant accusation of the “Azeris” that Armenians destroy nonexistent “Azeri” “monuments” and they get applauses and support in the Islamic Congress, the gathering of a bunch of fanatical Muslims. The examples abound. We simply should and we could demand a higher price for our services to the hyenas of the world, yet we always wiggle our tail when a western faggot pretends they throw a bone at us. See how the Armenian TV channels are in a state of euphoria just because the IMPORTANT (Jew-driven) media have raised the question of the Armenian Genocide, albeit in the vein of: “the Armenian allegations of genocide”, “the alleged Armenian massacres in the Ottoman “empire” (NOT Turkey of course) a huuuuuuundred years ago”, “hostility because of the killing of Armenians a centuryyyyyyyy ago”, etc., etc., etc. Edited October 18, 2009 by Hellektor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yergatuni1 Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 This protocol was a bad idea, how will it help the average armenian? cheap turkish gooods will close down all those street side vending businesses. how will our small armenian merchants compete with cheaper turkish goods? what will we sell to the turks that they don't already have? khatchkars perhaps? more probably armenian buildings, property and land, its easy to see where this is going, it looks like this only helps a few big armenian businessmen and politicians... meanwhile the turkish president is telling his turkic minions that they have achieved their dream goals and sevan (that's right out lake sevan) is finally theirs.... our Armenian government (anybody in the armenian goverment) need to wake up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Leader of the New Times Party (NZhK) Aram Karapetian says the texts of the Armenian-Turkish Protocols were changed before the signing in Zurich on October 10. "The replacement of each word and phrase may change the contents of the Protocols," Arman Karapetian told A1+. The NZhK Leader has found serious and dangerous changes in the texts of the Protocols posted on the website of the RA Foreign Ministry. "One of the changes concerns diplomatic relations under which Turkey is empowered to enter Armenia and take military action in order to protect its citizens' rights." Regarding ARF-Dashnaktsutiun's protests against the Armenian-Turkish Protocols, Mr. Karapetian said: "Unlike the ARF-Dashnaktsutiun I have always said that the burden of the Protocols lies on Serzh Sargsyan. The ratification of the Protocols cannot be hindered unless Serzh Sargsyan resigns office. ARF-Dashnaktsutiun will gain nothing with the calls for Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandian's resignation ARF-Dashnaktsutiun needn't suffice with taking oppositionist's posture. They had better act and I am hopeful that the Party wants to see the disgraceful Protocols rescinded. Aram Karapetian will continue cooperation with ARF-Dashnaktsutiun and Armenian National Congress (HAK). He says it is high time the HAK spoke up and took measures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 as posted on foreign ministry's website... where does it say that??? http://www.armeniaforeignministry.com/pr_0...13_protocol.pdf http://www.armeniaforeignministry.com/pr_0...3_protocol1.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 It is so common to see Armenian politicians inventing facts that is no longer funny. The most tragicomic fact in what concerns the diaspora was the reinvention of the State Committee for Relations with Diaspora with Madam Hakobyan at the helm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z'areh Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 It is so common to see Armenian politicians inventing facts that is no longer funny. The most tragicomic fact in what concerns the diaspora was the reinvention of the State Committee for Relations with Diaspora with Madam Hakobyan at the helm. Boghos, can you clarify? I don't understand the concept or the connection between what you say "Armenian politicians inventing facts that is no longer funny" and the the reinvention of the government office that deals with Diaspora affairs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Zareh, Gabi Gomide as it existed in Soviet times had obvious limitations but did accomplish a few things that should be respected. There was a sense of purpose. The current incarnation should be renamed State Committee for Travel to the Diaspora. Just another meaningless bureaucratic entity that promises a lot and doesn't deliver one thing. In my book that is called lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) Zareh, Gabi Gomide as it existed in Soviet times had obvious limitations but did accomplish a few things that should be respected. There was a sense of purpose. The current incarnation should be renamed State Committee for Travel to the Diaspora. Just another meaningless bureaucratic entity that promises a lot and doesn't deliver one thing. In my book that is called lying. I had noticed that every other news item talks about Sargisian's travel here, there and another place. Sometime ago Khrushchev's nickname was "tourist". It is remniscent of the American folklore, every community has the slogan- "Washington slept here"**, as he did not sleep in the same bed from one day to the next. What's the matter-mattress? Is their mattress too lumpy or the breakfast khash too cold? How about borscht or eggs benedict? ** http://www.gadling.com/2007/02/19/presiden...ton-slept-here/ Edited October 20, 2009 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Ter-Petrosyan, RA authorities pursue identical policy towards Turkey 20.10.2009 17:46 GMT+04:00 http://www.panarmenian.net/news/images/ico_print.gif http://www.panarmenian.net/news/images/ico_mail.gif /PanARMENIAN.Net/ The silence of the Armenian National Congress (ANC) means that the ongoing process with Turkey is in line with Levon Ter-Petrsosyan’s interests, said Larisa Alaverdyan, secretary of Heritage parliamentary group. According to her, the Armenian National Movement promoted a thesis that Armenia “should have friendly relations with its neighbors.” At that, Mrs. Alaverdyan disagreed with the opinion that Armenia is in bad because of the Nagorno Karabakh conflict. “Due to this conflict, Armenia is still an actor on the international arena,” she said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 AFTER RATIFICATION OF ARMENIAN-TURKISH PROTOCOLS "SOUTH CAUCASIAN RAILWAY" COMPANY IS GOING TO ORGANIZE A DISCUSSION WITH TURKISH PARTNERS ABOUT THE EXPLOITATION OF KARS-GYUMRI RAILWAY ARMENPRESS Oct 21, 2009 YEREVAN, OCTOBER 21, ARMENPRESS: After ratification of Armenian-Turkish protocols "South Caucasian Railway" company is going to organize a discussion with Turkish partners about the exploitation of Kars-Gyumri railway. Director of the company Shevket Shaydulin said today at a press conference that partnership must be established with the Turkish side for creation of railway communication. According to him, the opening of the Armenian-Turkish border will open new directions for the company to Europe-Caucasus-Asia transport crossroad. Besides, it will give an opportunity for Armenia to become a transit country for other states and railway companies. "Establishment of new directions is very important and is a first precondition for the development of a railway," he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 (edited) She either has major guts or ... a strong "back" (հայերեն ասած՝ մեջք) Edited October 25, 2009 by Nané Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zartonk Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 'Correctutyun'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z'areh Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Mr. Abrahamian says :"we should not cross the line" and "we should not look for winners and losers", he continues "after all we don't know if the President or the foreign minister is going to sign these protocols". Well, Mr. Abrahamian, now can we "cross the line" ? Brilliant circus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 (edited) She either has major guts or ... a strong "back" (հայերեն ասած՝ մեջք) Guts.... I kow ppl who know her...Hayeren asats mejq chuni... http://aramazd.livejournal.com/86209.html Edited October 25, 2009 by Ani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted October 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 The First Fruits of the Protocols Apologists for the Armenia-Turkey protocols denied all the warnings that there would be negative effects on the Armenian Genocide recognition process, while I, along with many others, foresaw that negative consequences would manifest themselves even in those countries that have already recognized the Armenian Genocide. Unfortunately, that turned out to be the case. Example: Canada is one of those few countries where both the parliament (in 2002 and 2004), as well as the cabinet (in 2006) have recognized the Armenian Genocide. Consequently, since 2004, no self-respecting member of the media would ever publish or broadcast any article or program denying the Armenian Genocide. Moreover, when, in February of 2006, as a reaction to my mentioning the Armenian Genocide as part of a farewell interview to the influential Embassy magazine, the ambassadors of Turkey and Azerbaijan complained, the editor of that periodical responded, without any intervention on my part, that, “the fact of the genocide cannot be disputed, as it is not subject to any doubts”. Clear and precise. And what do we have now? Only ten days after signing the protocols, the very same Embassy magazine (on the 21st of October, 2009) published an article by Gwynne Dyer, where it is said that,“the Armenians back home have made a deal … [which] create a joint historical commission to determine what actually happened in 1915”. The author’s concluding remarks of the article state that, “It was not a genocide…” And this in Canada, which has recognized the Armenian Genocide. As people on the streets say, we have messed with Canada, and she will not forgive us. People do not forgive those who mess around with them, even in international relations. And now for yet another prediction. After the protocols get ratified (God forbid), it would mean legally doubting the Armenian Genocide (please save your arguments for the Canadian courts), upon which the Canadian courts will be filled with applications against the prior governmental declarations for having “insulted honor and dignity”, seeing as we have insulted the Turkish state – and, of course, Canadian citizens of Turkish descent – in a yet-to-be-proven crime (genocide), subject to discussion by some sub-commission. Since the Canadian court system provides for monetary compensation concerning moral damages, I would therefore like to call for an extra line in next year’s state budget of the Republic of Armenia, of a few hundred million dollars (nothing less), to pay for moral damages. Ultimately, we are the ones who are going to be billed for these complaints. ---- Some people do not want to understand a simple truth. As much as political theory is abstract, political practice, – policy – is concrete. That is to say, a Gospel truth is evident that one recognizes the tree from the fruit. Politics manifests itself with concrete policy. Consequently, all the particular incidents, as it were, which render the recognition of the Armenian Genocide more difficult are the most important, I would even say the most worrying, cases in point. Of course, Senators Menendez and Ensign can always bring the resolution recognizing the Armenian Genocide to the floor of the US Senate. Thank goodness, we do not yet have the power to prevent that. However, we do not have the power to credit their honest goodwill to ourselves either. My missive on the change in policy in the Canadian Embassy magazine had only just been sent out, when I received yet another testimony to the truth of my concerns, from Sweden. My friend of mutual ideas of many years shared with me his bitter experience from the other side of the world. The editor-in-chief of the influential Metro newspaper, Per Gunne, refuses to print any article, which mentions the Armenian Genocide because he is no longer “sure that there was genocide”. Another Swedish daily, Svenska Dagbladet, which, through the well-known journalist Bitte Hammargren, now uses the media expression of “Armenian massacres”, as opposed to the legal term “genocide”, has adopted the same change in policy. These are not mere words, but represent policy. Policies have changed immensely lately, and they have changed after that unfortunate pair of protocols was signed. Ara Papian Head, “Modus Vivendi” Centre 22 October 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted October 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) COERCION COMMISSION Anyone know the meaning of "out of commission, out of order, out of use"? http://www.flickr.com/photos/cavanimages/3990547875/ Dejavu!!?? Of course, We here in the diaspora can bark to our hearts’content http://www.cookstown.gov.uk/media/dogbarking.jpg And bray all we want «էշու զրրոց» All we want http://photos.igougo.com/images/p122943-Cu..._bray_about.jpg We don’t realize that those in Yerevan live only 1.5 (million?) miles from the ottoman cannons. Have we seen this “movie” before? Let us look back to all those so called “treaties”. Then, let us look at this so called “protocols” with “no-preconditions”. Yes. There are no “pre-conditions”, that is “pre-conditions” on our behalf, and look at the “no pre-conditions” imposed on us. AH! Khrimian Hayrik, where are you? Do deliver that your famous sermon of Paper Ladle/ԹՈՒՂԹԷ ՇԵՐԵՓ again! Dejavu? History repeats? Look at the pictures of “signing on the dotted line” by our ILLITERATE (can they read furkish, English and Armenian?) "ambassadors", with Europe, Russia, furkey and the US standing in the background with big ear to ear grins, while our “ambassador“ with a tragically distorted face . No pre-conditions? If the digital video were invented then we would see the same pictures during the (by "friend and foe") coerced-under duress Lausanne, Moscow and Kars "treaties". What does “ratifying the Kars Treaty mean? What does “territorial integrity” mean? What does “historical commission” mean? WHERE IS ARE OUR PRE-CONDITIONS? Can we play a game of “pin the tail on the donkey/eshek”? Who is the pinner and which the eshek? http://bluemarshmallows.deviantart.com/art...Donkey-61145441 Where is/are our pre-conditions that the occupation of 90% of our homeland, and the “blockade” are acts of war by a mighty empire against a decimated (reduced by 1 in 10, reduced by 90%) people. If in the year 1AD we numbered 4 million, and today when world population has grown 30 fold=120 million? Where are the 110 million of us? ----- Let us see what each of the words “coercion/commision” mean. Let’s go to LANGUAGE. Edited October 26, 2009 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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