Em Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 A friend shared a link with me today. It may be of interest to some. http://www.aiprg.net/en/content/169/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Em Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Another friend shared a different link. http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...ideoid=63858595 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Em Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insi...eav100509.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 http://hyemedia.com/wp-content/uploads/200..._and_Turkey.pdf FULL TEXT OF THE PROTOCOLS SIGNED BY TURKEY AND ARMENIA Press release by the Swiss Federal Department of Foreign Affairs, the Ministry of Foreign of the Republic of Armenia and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Turkey 31 August 2009 Berne, Yerevan, Ankara, 31 August 2009 The Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Turkey have agreed to start their internal political consultations on the two protocols – the "Protocol on the establishment of diplomatic relations" and the "Protocol on the development of bilateral relations" – which have been initiated in the course of their efforts under Swiss mediation. The two Protocols provide for a framework for the normalization of their bilateral relations within a reasonable timeframe. The political consultations will be completed within six weeks, following which the two Protocols will be signed and submitted to the respective Parliaments for the ratification on each side. Both sides will make their best efforts for the timely progression of the ratification in line with their constitutional and legal procedures. The normalization of bilateral relations will contribute to the regional peace and stability. The Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Turkey are committed are pursuing their joint efforts with the assistance of Switzerland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 PROTOCOL ON THE ESTABLISHMENT OF DIPLPMATIC RELATIONS BETWEEN THE REPUBLIC OF ARMENIA AND THE REPUBLIC OF TURKEY The Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Turkey, Desiring to establish good neighborly relations and to develop bilateral cooperation in the political, economic, cultural and other fields for the benefit of their peoples, as envisaged in the Protocol on the development of relations signed on the same day, Referring to their obligation under the Charter of the United Nations, the Helsinki Final Act, the Charter of Paris for a New Europe, Reconfirming their commitment, in their bilateral and international relations, to respect and ensure respect for the principles equality, sovereignty, non intervention in internal affairs of other states, territorial integrity and inviolability of frontiers, Bearing in mind the importance of the creation and maintenance of an atmosphere of trust and confidence between the two countries that will contribute to the strengthening of peace, security and stability of the whole region, as wll as being determined to refrain from the threat or the use of force, to promote the peaceful settlement of disputes, and to protect human rights and fundamental freedoms, Confirming the mutual recognition of the existing border between the two countries as defined by the relevant treaties of international law, Emphasizing their decision to open the common border. Reiterating their commitment to refrain from pursuing any policy incompatible with the spirit of good neighborly relations, Condemning all forms of terrorism, violence and extremism irrespective of their cause, pledging to refrain from encouraging and tolerating such acts and to cooperate in combating against them, Affirming their willingness to chart a new pattern and course for their relations on the basis of common interests, goodwill and in pursuit of peace, mutual understanding and harmony, Agree to establish diplomatic relations as of the date of the entry into force of this Protocol in accordance with the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations of 1961 and to exchange Diplomatic Missions. This Protocol and the Protocol on the Development of Bilateral Relations between The Republic of Armenia and The Republic of Turkey shall enter into force on the same day, i.e. on the first day of the first month following the exchange of instruments of ratification. Signed in (place) on (date) in Armenian, Turkish and English authentic copies in duplicate. In case of divergence of interpretation English shall prevail. FOR THE REPUBLIC OF ARMENIA FOR THE REPUBLIC OF TURKEY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 PROTOCOL ON DEVELOPMENT OF RELATIONS BETWEEN THE REPUBLIC OF ARMENIA AND THE REPUBLIC OF TURKEY The Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Turkey, Guided by the Protocol on the Establishment of Diplomatic Relations between the Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Turkey signed on the same day, Considering the perspectives of developing their bilateral relations, based on confidence and respect to their mutual interests, Determining to develop and enhance their bilateral relations, in the political, economic, energy, transport, scientific, technical, cultural issues and other fields, based on common interests of both countries, Supporting the promotion of the cooperation between the two countries in the international and regional organizations, especially within the framework of the UN, the OSCE, the Council of Europe, the Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council and the BSEC, Taking into account the common purpose of both States to cooperate for enhancing regional stability and security for ensuring the democratic and sustainable development of the region, Reiterating their commitment to the peaceful settlement of regional and international disputes and conflicts on the basis of the norms and principles of international law, Reaffirming their readiness to actively support the actions of the international community in addressing common security threats to the region and world security and stability, such as terrorism, transnational organized crimes, illicit trafficking of drugs and arms, 1. Agree to open the common border within 2 months after the entry into force of this Protocol, 2. Agree to conduct regular political consultations between the Ministries of Foreign Affairs of the two countries; implement a dialogue on the historical dimension with the aim to restore mutual confidence between the two nations, including an impartial scientific examination of the historical records and archives to define existing problems and formulate recommendations; make the best possible use of existing transport, communications and energy infrastructure and networks between the two countries, and to undertake measures in this regard; develop the bilateral legal framework in order to foster cooperation between the two countries; cooperate in the fields of science and education by encouraging relations between the appropriate institutions as well as promoting the exchange of specialists and students, and act with the aim of preserving the cultural heritage of both sides and launching common cultural projects; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 establish consular cooperation in accordance with the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations of 1963 in order to provide necessary assistance and protection to the citizens of the two countries; take concrete measures in order to develop trade, tourism and economic cooperation between the two countries; engage in a dialogue and reinforce their cooperation on environmental issues. 3. Agree on the establishment of an intergovernmental bilateral commission which shall comprise separate sub-commissions for the prompt implementation of the commitments mentioned in operational paragraph 2 above in this Protocol. To prepare the working modalities of the intergovernmental commission and its sub-commissions, a working group headed by the two Ministers of Foreign Affairs shall be created 2 months after the day following the entry into force of this Protocol. Within 3 months after the entry into force of this Protocol, these modalities shall be approved at ministerial level. The intergovernmental commission shall meet for the first time immediately after the adoption of the said modalities. The sub-commissions shall start their work at the latest 1 month thereafter and they shall work continuously until the completion of their mandates. Where appropriate, international experts shall take part in the sub-commissions. The timetable and elements agreed by both sides for the implementation of this Protocol are mentioned in the annexed document, which is an integral part of this Protocol. This Protocol and the Protocol on the Establishment of Diplomatic Relations between the Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Turkey shall enter into force on the same day, i.e. on the first day of the first month following the exchange of instruments of ratification. Signed in (date, place) in Armenian, Turkish and English authentic copies in duplicate. In case of divergence of interpretation, the English text shall prevail FOR THE REPUBLIC OF ARMENIA FOR THE REPUBLIC OF TURKEY Annexed document: Timetable and elements for the implementation of the Protocol on development of relations between the Republic of Armenia the and the Republic of Turkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Timetable and elements for the implementation of the Protocol on development of relations between the Republic of Turkey and the Republic of Armenia Steps to be undertaken Timing 1. to open the common border within 2 months after the entry into force of the Protocol on the development of relations between the Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Turkey 2. to establish a working group headed by the two Ministers of Foreign Affairs to prepare the working modalities of the intergovernmental commission and its sub-commissions 2 months after the day following the entry into force of the Protocol on the development of relations between the Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Turkey 3. to approve the working modalities of the intergovernmental commission and its sub-commissions at ministerial level within 3 months after the entry into force of the Protocol on the development of relations between the Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Turkey 4. to organize the first meeting of the intergovernmental commission immediately after the adoption of the working modalities of the intergovernmental commission and its sub-commissions at ministerial level 5. to operate the following sub-commissions: - the sub-commission on political consultations; - the sub-commission on transport, communications and energy infrastructure and networks; - the sub-commission on legal matters; - the sub-commission on science and education; - the sub-commission on trade, tourism and economic cooperation; - the sub-commission on environmental issues; and - the sub-commission on the historical dimension to implement a dialogue with the aim to restore mutual confidence between the two nations, including an impartial scientific examination of the historical records and archives to define existing problems and formulate recommendations, in which Armenian , Turkish as well as Swiss and other international experts shall take part. at the latest 1 month after the first meeting of the intergovernmental commission FOR THE REPUBLIC OF ARMENIA FOR THE REPUBLIC OF TURKEY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 sireliner jan mek angam norits kardatseq sa xndem, 2 jam kardaluts heto yes sxal ban chem gtnum iyd protocoli mej, iyl asem nuynisk kjaseyi turqin stipum en Hayi het havasari pes varvel.... http://www.armenianow.com/pdf/Armenia-Turk...ol_Analysis.pdf Both Turkey and Armenia must ratify the text before this Protocol becomes actionable. Item 1 is the clause that serves as the basis for opening the border. However, how open it would be and restrictions of its use by the parties, is not stated. Item 2 refers to the furtherance of bilateral relations, but in particular notes a bilateral commission to be established to examine the “historical” record. While not explicitly stated, the overarching historical issue is the genocide of the Armenians. It is generally understood this is the paramount issue that will be examined. Item 3 is a procedural item referring to implementing Item 2. Since Armenia has long stated its desire to enter into discussions with Turkey without any preconditions to affect a resolution of Item 1 -- lifting the Turkish border blockade -- it can be assumed that Item 2 was a Turkish initiative. It is also assumed that Turkey was never strategically or fundamentally against opening the border, judging by its current tactical interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 "inchu en aghavaghum mejtegh gtsum iunch ases , urishin mi lseq, estegh hogheri masin ban chi grats, HAykakan HArtsi het kapvats voch mi hakasogh vnasogh ban chem tesnum yes," te sxal em aseq yes el imanam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Here Mosjan, just read between the lines Referring to their obligation under the Charter of the United Nations, the Helsinki Final Act, the Charter of Paris for a New Europe, Reconfirming their commitment, in their bilateral and international relations, to respect and ensure respect for the principles equality, sovereignty, non intervention in internal affairs of other states, territorial integrity and inviolability of frontiers Sure! Which Frontiers? Sevres? Lozana? Kars? Moscow? Which one of the agreements is valid? And which one is the existing border? The one that is wired? Confirming the mutual recognition of the existing border between the two countries as defined by the relevant treaties of international law, Emphasizing their decision to open the common border.Supporting the promotion of the cooperation between the two countries in the international and regional organizations, especially within the framework of the UN, the OSCE, the Council of Europe, the Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council and the BSEC, This paragraph seals the fate of Western Armenia, is it not? implement a dialogue on the historical dimension with the aim to restore mutual confidence between the two nations, including an impartial scientific examination of the historical records and archives to define existing problems and formulate recommendations; Dialog about what? The "incidents" of 1915? The "incidents" of 1896? The "incidents" of 1908? Whose history and what dimensions? Impartial scientific examination of historical records of WHAT? What Problems? cooperate in the fields of science and education by encouraging relations between the appropriate institutions as well as promoting the exchange of specialists and students, and act with the aim of preserving the cultural heritage of both sides and launching common cultural projects; Could they name even one piece of turkish cultural heritage on Armenian soil that has not been preserved? Supporting the promotion of the cooperation between the two countries in the international and regional organizations, especially within the framework of the UN, the OSCE, the Council of Europe, the Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council and the BSEC, This is fine exept that Turkey has the upper hand in all these Organizations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 "ches hamuzi... yes im prezidentin em havatum !!! Serj !! Araj HAyastan !!! TSovits TSov HAyastan " hin xosq ka asuam minchev ch@kortsnes ches gtnelu, kam estegh teghatsy americatsiner@ kasen - you need to gave some to get some ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z'areh Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 "inchu en aghavaghum mejtegh gtsum iunch ases , urishin mi lseq, estegh hogheri masin ban chi grats, HAykakan HArtsi het kapvats voch mi hakasogh vnasogh ban chem tesnum yes," te sxal em aseq yes el imanam Mosjan, Ourish@ ov eh? Ayo! Yes ge gardsem menk isgabes urishin ch'bedk e lsenk yev ch'khpvink te aiys protocole mes hamar lav é. Mosjan, believe in what you want, but as far as I am (and the overwhelming majority of Armenians who want to think for themselves ) concerned, these protocols being anti-Armenian, and being forced down our throats, is as clear as the Sun shining on a clear day. Perhaps the difference between you and me is that I have long removed my sun glasses, especially the ones that make people see old Soviet style visions. with all due respect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 The overwhelming majority of Armenians never thought for themselves and never will, they are led on a leash by interest groups (Parties) who are afraid of becoming irrelevant after Armenia and Turkey makes peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted October 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) Movses, chgitem the du lourj es khosum the tsitsagh. Khndrem krkin karda yew tes the “territorial integrity” , ima @ndounel ayzhmu tourqakan sahmanner@ , yew soveto-turkakan azerbokhjani sahmanner@? Yev “historical commission” inch nshanaki., ima , the “kenotsid “ patahel e kam voch?. Menq pazmitz@s asel enq or “kenotsid”@ ardzangrouel e Hay yev otar patmagirneri vkayoutiamb, yev the veji araka che, bayts erb nranq asen the sa piti ousanoui , inch nshanaki? Yerb mi hzor petoutiun @ zinowadz tntanotnerov hartsaki anzen yev anpashtman, ayr, kin yev yerekha geghatsoun vera. Inch e nra anvanouvm@? (yerkoustek ) “tragedy/incident/mi patahar/մի ողբերգական (tragic) պատահար”? The Hayer@ 6 million turk yev musulman en spannel? One can only wish!!!! Edited October 7, 2009 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellektor Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 "inchu en aghavaghum mejtegh gtsum iunch ases , urishin mi lseq, estegh hogheri masin ban chi grats, HAykakan HArtsi het kapvats voch mi hakasogh vnasogh ban chem tesnum yes," te sxal em aseq yes el imanam Are you for real or are you being sarcastic? I can't believe you say this! Hyrenagits, what do you understand under this (I repeat): "Confirming the mutual recognition of the existing border between the two countries as defined by relevant treaties of international law" This means, Serj throws the entire Հայ Դատ in the garbage can of history. I don't care about the rest of the protocol and I have explained why in this thread. Էլ ի՞նչ Հայ Դատ: Please explain to me what you understand under the above point in the protocols. Թէ սխա՞լ եմ ասա ես էլ իմանամ: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z'areh Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 The overwhelming majority of Armenians never thought for themselves and never will, they are led on a leash by interest groups (Parties) who are afraid of becoming irrelevant after Armenia and Turkey makes peace. No Yervant, I think the overwhelming majority of Armenians believe that the three traditional parties coming together and clearly saying "no" to these protocols is the most healthy and REAL (shidag) think to do. It is an old and worn out propaganda that people repeat about what you call "parties fearing irrelevance from a Turkish-Armenian rapprochement. and "leashing the public", don't take the public for a fool. Only those who do not grasp the true nature of grass roots organizations would think such a thing, and apparently AAA is one of them. You say Armenia and Turkey will make peace. Of course Turkey will make peace with Armenia, on its own term, everybody knew that from the start. You give up your rights, and I'll make peace with you. Heck tomorrow Israel and Palestine can make such a peace too. If we believe that Turkey illegally closed the borders with Armenia then the protocols should have said clearly "Turkey will unconditionally open the borders with Armenia". PERIOD. What did Armenia do to Turkey (In international legal perspective) for her to be forced to compromise on three main issue (yes Three, genocide, border and Artsakh,--read the "Terrorism" bit--) and get nothing back in putting down on paper about Turkey unconditionally opening the borders? What is there not to understand? Do you forget that Azerbaijan was seeking international legal support to deal with Artsakh as a terrorism issue, thus having the right to defend herself? And what about the "good neighbourly relationship" in these protocols, Really? and what if the insistence of Genocide on Armenia's part is regarded by Turkey as being not-so-good a neighbourly thing to do. At least if Armenia had succeeded in including the affirmation of people's right to self-determination, then it would have balanced things out. Since there is no such inclusion this means a major defeat in Armenia's diplomacy. What is there not to understand? There is nothing in these protocols that one can point out and say....THIS is good for Armenia. If there is please point it to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellektor Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 "ches hamuzi... yes im prezidentin em havatum !!! Serj !! Araj HAyastan !!! TSovits TSov HAyastan " hin xosq ka asuam minchev ch@kortsnes ches gtnelu, kam estegh teghatsy americatsiner@ kasen - you need to gave some to get some ..... To get what? Why is it always us who has to give? Turkey has imposed a blockade on Armenia since 1993 against all norms and its responsibilities vis-à-vis the EU and the Eurofag Council of which it's a member. They HAVE TO open the border if they want to invade the Eurofag Union. This blockade, which is indeed an act of war, is against even the goddamn illegal treaty of Kars, the confirmation of which the Turk and their Judeo-Saxon buddies are illegally demanding from Armenia with these same protocols. Why do WE have to give everything, while they have already stolen 90% of our homeland through Genocide after nine centuries of use and abuse, have destroyed our nation, have destroyed our civilization, have even destroyed our monuments and cemeteries after they have destroyed us physically? We have NOTHING to give the genocidal Turk vermin, yet we have EVERYTHING to take from the murderous savages, yet “our” scumbag of a president is blessing the fruit of the Genocide to pave the way for Turkey to invade EU and earn credit. Why do WE have to offer this great service to the butchers of our nation? Te sxal em asa yes el imanam. P.S. And who says Turkey will open the borders even after Serj signs the protocols? The wolves have howled on countless occasions (on almost daily basis) that they won’t start relations unless Armenia cedes the liberated territories to the genocidal parasites, and this is exactly what the whole charade is all about: they don’t want relations, they want TERRITORY. P.S. II: ...Կարսի պայմանագրի մասին Ա. Մարուքեանն ասաց, որ անգամ կարող ենք պահանջներ ներկայացնել, քանի որ Թուրքիան այդ պայմանագիրը խախտել է՝ շրջափակելով Հայաստանը: Նշենք, որ ըստ Կարսի պայմանագրի՝ Թուրքիայի եւ Հայաստանի միջեւ պէտք է մարդկանց եւ ապրանքների անխափան տեղաշարժ լինէր: Ա. Մարուքեանն առաջարկեց միջազգայնօրէն չեղեալ յայտարարել Կարսի պայմանագիրը, քանի որ այն խախտւել է հէնց Թուրքիայի կողմից: Source, Alik online edition, citing aysor.am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Mosjan, Ourish@ ov eh? Ayo! Yes ge gardsem menk isgabes urishin ch'bedk e lsenk yev ch'khpvink te aiys protocole mes hamar lav é. Mosjan, believe in what you want, but as far as I am (and the overwhelming majority of Armenians who want to think for themselves ) concerned, these protocols being anti-Armenian, and being forced down our throats, is as clear as the Sun shining on a clear day. Perhaps the difference between you and me is that I have long removed my sun glasses, especially the ones that make people see old Soviet style visions. with all due respect! che barekam jan yes vochinch Halats Yughi tegh chem @endunel im kyanqum, indz jaachoghner@ lav giten vor shat kaskatsamit yev djvar havatatsogh em Zareh jan yerb mer sireli robert & Serj CO.'n vajarum er HAyastani Atomakayan@, GAzamughi zgali mas@, yerkatgits@, Cell phone system@, Heraxosi tsants@.. toqeris mej vorqan uj kar bravum eyi te sa inch e katarvum ?? inchu en tsaxum vagh@ inch en anelu yete pasti araj kangnen... inchu yes spyurqahays chem karrogh gnel iyn nuyn@ inch russ@ karrogh e ?? cheyin vstahum mez ?? de inch barekam yekav yev iyd jamanak@ yev robert & Serj Co. pasti araj e kangnats, irents vstaheli sireli rus axperneri dem, stipvats e katarel inch rus@ yev muysnern en asum... yete sa protocol kochvats@ terutyuner chunenar serj@ ashxarhqov mek man cher galu yev hamuzer bolorin.... antheri che sakayn karrogh er aveli vat linel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 "vayyy iy dzer tsav@ tanem serj@ vonts k@lini sxal lini na yerbeq sxal chi yeghel chi el linelu :)" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 No Yervant, I think the overwhelming majority of Armenians believe that the three traditional parties coming together and clearly saying "no" to these protocols is the most healthy and REAL (shidag) think to do. It is an old and worn out propaganda that people repeat about what you call "parties fearing irrelevance from a Turkish-Armenian rapprochement. and "leashing the public", don't take the public for a fool. Only those who do not grasp the true nature of grass roots organizations would think such a thing, and apparently AAA is one of them. You say Armenia and Turkey will make peace. Of course Turkey will make peace with Armenia, on its own term, everybody knew that from the start. You give up your rights, and I'll make peace with you. Heck tomorrow Israel and Palestine can make such a peace too. If we believe that Turkey illegally closed the borders with Armenia then the protocols should have said clearly "Turkey will unconditionally open the borders with Armenia". PERIOD. What did Armenia do to Turkey (In international legal perspective) for her to be forced to compromise on three main issue (yes Three, genocide, border and Artsakh,--read the "Terrorism" bit--) and get nothing back in putting down on paper about Turkey unconditionally opening the borders? What is there not to understand? Do you forget that Azerbaijan was seeking international legal support to deal with Artsakh as a terrorism issue, thus having the right to defend herself? And what about the "good neighbourly relationship" in these protocols, Really? and what if the insistence of Genocide on Armenia's part is regarded by Turkey as being not-so-good a neighbourly thing to do. At least if Armenia had succeeded in including the affirmation of people's right to self-determination, then it would have balanced things out. Since there is no such inclusion this means a major defeat in Armenia's diplomacy. What is there not to understand? There is nothing in these protocols that one can point out and say....THIS is good for Armenia. If there is please point it to me. BArekam jan menq el da shat lav enq haskanum, sakayn nerkayis karravarutyun@ urish jar chuni, qanzi verjin 8~10 tarin zbaghvats en yeghel irents grp[anner@ ltsnelov, yerkri karevoraguyn structuiraner@ vajarelov.. kerel en yerkir@ menak anunn e mnatsel yev hogh@, chem zarmana yete hanrapetutyan Hogh@ nuynpes Grav drats ch@linen mi yevorpakan banki mot.... chunen urish qayl sa e !! et mard@ iravunq chuner prezident linelu, na nuynisk chi karroghanum sovorakan mi hartsi patasxanel minjev tuxti grats@ 5 angam ch@karda,,, hartsazrutsner@ nayel eq ?? mi hat el nayek, bazmativ hartseri patasxanner na kardum e.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellektor Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Serj !! Araj HAyastan !!! TSovits TSov HAyastan " Էս մէկը մոռացայ: Եթէ այս փաստաթուղթը ստորագրւի, առաջին անգամ անկախ Հայաստանը վաւերացնում է Կարսի ապօրինի պայմանագիրը: Արցախն էլ հօ տալիս ենք, մնալու է միայն աղջկայ գլուխը: Էլ ի՞նչ ծովից ծով Հայաստանի մասին ես խօսում: Միթէ Թուրքիան ու Ադրբեջանը գնան ջրի տակ, որ դա էլ ափսոս կը լինի որովհետև Մասիսն ու մեր մնացած կիսաւեր յուշարձաններն էլ կը խորտակւեն: I knew you were only being sarcastic Mos. Off topic; the savages got their ugly, bloody flag reflected on the Eiffel. Those lowly, sellout Eurofags... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 You say Armenia and Turkey will make peace. Of course Turkey will make peace with Armenia, on its own term, everybody knew that from the start. You give up your rights, and I'll make peace with you. Heck tomorrow Israel and Palestine can make such a peace too. If and when we as a nation and country become more powerful than them, then we can dictate our own term. How many treaties and agreements have been cancelled and voided between countries? Too many to count, therefore if we want our rights respected we need to have the stick not the carrot. I did read the protocols and I know it's not the greatest peice of documents, but until we become a force to wrecken with what choice do we have? Once the border is open, if it ever opens we can tell Georgia to go to hell and liberate Javakh where Armenians are suffering. Right now getting Western Armenia will give us 15 million Kurds, and 15 million headaches. I don't need to remind you that the victorious (stronger) side decides the outcome of agreements. We have too many enemies and no friends, basically every major country is selling us out for their interests and we are too weak to confront them. So at the cost of repeating myself our salvation is in our strenght. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 ehh barekam jan TSvots Tsov HAyastan er hima dartsav Tsovits TSov HAyer, vor tsoum nayes HAyer kan... de sa el mer baxtitsa, mer xelqits, vortev @entreluts Shaqar yev asfalti hamar enq @entrum, LAv tegherqi xosqi hamar enq @entrum, chinovnikneri & olegarxneri enq @entrum... @entrum enq qani or dzerqa talis iyd varkyanin, iyd varkyanov enq aprum, amenashat@ iyd orva hamar, voch mek vaghva orva masin chi mtatsum.. ov el mtatsuma hayhoyum, parsavanum, davajani yev xhuligani pitak@ vran en paktsnum, pateri tak shanSatak anum, opr el ch@mtatsy. or el risk chani xosi kam poghits durs ga ir kartsiq@ tekuz yev sh@shukov asi... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z'areh Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 As I see it we have few choices...actually only two 1-Collapse on our own defeatist feelings...prescribe our own inaptitudes on "outside forces", "having no friends" etc.. or 2-Remember Njteh, who looked at the orders from Yerevan, asking him to stop military activities and retreat, and said "f@ck you" and went on liberating Zangezur. If anything those were much more desperate days than now. What happened this time? Let us not forget the following: Serje Sarkisian stole the presidency and wants to keep it at all costs. PERIOD! Anything else is goddamn noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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