Anoushik Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Ashot, my question to Roger is not about why he believes in God, but about his reason for believing in God. He says that he believes in God because the Bible states that God exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Well Anoushik jan that is his reason, the bible!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Well Anoushik jan that is his reason, the bible!!! Ok Well, who wrote the Bible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 here we go again... It was written in 3659b.c. on the stones trough pictures and writings, then rewritten millions of times, then eventually it was put on papers, then printed out... so if you must know who wrote the bible, there has been well over millions of people that rewrote it, but in general the people did write it based on their beliefs... and if you want to know further you would have to go back in time and ask them why!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 here we go again... It was written in 3659b.c. on the stones trough pictures and writings, then rewritten millions of times, then eventually it was put on papers, then printed out... And millions of books have been written since the time of the Bible as well, correct? What makes the Bible so special? And what about the Quran? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Anoushik jan, do you study history? Do you beleive in ancient history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Anoushik jan, do you study history? Do you beleive in ancient history? Ashot jan, what does that have to do with my question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 please do answer it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Ok, I've studied history in school and college and I've read about various cultures, ancient and modern, on my own spare time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 I mean ARMENIAN HISTORY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Yes, Armenian history as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Do you beleive in this hostory of Armenians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Yes, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 I must say that you never rely on the history as a fact. I must say that you do not beleive in this history of ours. I must say that you neglegt to realize that in every part of our HISTORY there is a mention of GOD - not to mention that this has been a part of our hisotry for as long as it can be recorded!!! And yet you answer my questions - telling me you beleive in history, yet you somehoq manage to get into arguements as why do we beleive in GOD... we beleive in God because it has been part of us for so long that it cannot be recorded with a date, it is part of us just like our history, it is a very big role playing part of our history and culture and future... Need I say more Anoushik jan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 I must say that you never rely on the history as a fact. I must say that you do not beleive in this history of ours. That's not true. Where did you come up with that? I must say that you neglegt to realize that in every part of our HISTORY there is a mention of GOD - not to mention that this has been a part of our hisotry for as long as it can be recorded!!! Yes, God is mentioned in our history, but that doesn't make God a fact. And yet you answer my questions - telling me you beleive in history, yet you somehoq manage to get into arguements as why do we beleive in GOD... we beleive in God because it has been part of us for so long that it cannot be recorded with a date, it is part of us just like our history, it is a very big role playing part of our history and culture and future... Need I say more Anoushik jan? You believe in God because it has been ingrained in you culturally, correct? That's what you're saying here. And I agree with you. But that doesn't mean that God becomes a fact. A lot of things have been ingrained in humans culturally. Thank goodness some things have changed in the West, like the idea that women are inferior to men, while the rest of the world still suffers from this ridiculous notion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Then what's the fact? can you prove your scientific approach? Can you answer a simple question - what made the human being, and no don't start with the monkey business... even if you believe the monkey concept then where did the monkeys come from, answer these questions and make me believe that these are facts and I will stop believing in GOD for once and for all... and in that matter everyone else will do the same, as the humanity will have the FACT of the CENTURY... So that is the question here at stake, it's not God that concerns you, it's the question as who is inferior tho whom... Anoushik jan, it is very easy to put words into ones mouth, I need, not to say any more then this - Those who believe in God will continue to do so and those who don't will never do... This is the ##################th time this is being said, enough is enough... Why do you all care as to why I believe in god or not, are you trying to make me a none-believer? won't work... Why do you all care as to why other's believe in God? I am happy for you all that you do not believe in God and you will never see me bugging you with this, but what are you guys trying to prove in here? OK WE THE PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE IN GOD ARE OFFICIALLY DECLARING THAT THOSE WHO DON'T ARE SMARTER, MORE INTELLIGENT, USE MORE LOGIC, SCIENTIFIC APPROACH AND HUMANLY THEN US... Is this what you all are looking for? Is this the reason why you guys always come in these topics and try your best to prove us wrong? IT'S NOT WORKING AND IT WILL NEVER WORK - SO STOP IT, as it is getting very very annoying!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Didn't we used to worship fire for a long time before the Jesus God? What happened to that part of our history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Ashot jan, you know very well that I'm not going to stop, no matter how annoying it gets. That's that point of a discussion forum Also, the question of where we are coming from concerns me a great deal, as well as my fellow human beings, hence we have these types of discussions online, in lectures, and philosophical debates. These have been around since the dawn of humanity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 (edited) Then what's the fact? can you prove your scientific approach? Can you answer a simple question - what made the human being Of course I can't answer that! Isn't that what we are all searching for? I'll tell you my own believe though, as regarding the idea of God. Even if there is a higher being who created the Universe (I don't deny this idea) I still don't call it God. For me that being either didn't have any specific plans for the humanity, or if it did it messed up on its plans, or it's no longer around for me to care! Why do I think so? Again, like I posted in this thread before, because I don't agree with the unjust world we are all living in. I don't accept that an all-knowing, all-powerful, good being could create such a cruel world. Edited April 9, 2008 by Anoushik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Sip jan, show me some articles where it states that we worshiped "FIRE" and I will explain in detail what we worshiped!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Anoushik jan, our argument is meant to be for another thread, certainly not for this one!!! The question in here is if we believe in God or not, the question is not why or why not, and certainly its not for arguments as to who is right or wrong... Besides, the Higher Being that you are mentioning is the same as we call it a GOD... so you may call it Higher Being, others Juda, others Budah, others Jeova, others Allah, we call it Astvats! As to the statement that God messed up at a certain point, I can only say this - everyone has to know the difference between good and bad to choose it's life accordingly, right and wrong, hence there is the story and the strong argument of the Satan, which is believed to be the reason of the screw up in the world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Em Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Do I really want to get inot this, or not? I really don't, but I have to. I respect Anoushik and Sip and consider them as friends. I am not directing this post to anyone in particular- just to everyone in general. A few thoughts/ inquiries.... !. Bing Bang theory...please.... what happened .000000000001 seconds prior to the Big Bang? Why then and when and how? How is most important. 2. I see Desing in every small thing. I cannot look inot this vast world and believe that all this just came to be on its own and in and of itself... please don think that I am dismissing evolution, Religion deos not say evolution dd not occur...they say that a dog could not have evolved from a cat...ie., we could not have come from Apes... maybe our ancestors from antiquity were very simplified versions from ourselves..I dont deny evolution just dont tell me tha jsut becuase they can use tools and mimic language that they are our former selves. Don't you see the connecting thread in all organisms..isn't nature i ad of itself proof that there is a design and plan to all this? 3. I think NAture is the very essenec of God. God is in everything (please dot confuse this word with the Christian/ Catholic God). I meam God as in something greater than ourselves, the Dude or the Dudette. lol. Everything is part of God, and in essence, worshipping nature (Pagans) is just a simplified version of Religion. Instead of saying we whorship The Creator of it all, we used to say that we whorship the wonder ad magic that is the rain, the trees, etc.... Our being PAgan and whorshipping fire just means we did not have the ability to comprehend mora than that... Which brings me to the biggest problem that I face when presented with "there is no god" arguement. The fallacy lies in thinking that we know enough to rule out God. It is very amusing to me that someone thinks that even the most intelliget being knows enough to state with utmost certainty that we already kow enough to be able to say without a shadow of a doubt that there is no way that ther cannot be something greater thatn ourselves. THat science has not been wrong enough times to shift the burden of proof on them. Has mainstream science not been wrong enough times? Can we not rule out that we may not know all that we think we know? And if there is the slightest possibility that our limited knowledge and limited ability to undestand this vast universe or mulitverses leaves a single shred of doubt that ther may be soething greater than ourselves, than why am I not smarter than you or he or she to believe that which cannot be ruled out? Why can't I use beliefe as a weapon? Why is that so unreliable? Why can I not believe there is more to me tha the matter which makes up my parts? I know I have a soul. When science can prove that I do not have a soul, then I will give up my belief and profess to have been a fool. 'Till the, I admire you guys, i comend you for your beliefs ad yor pursuit of something greater than ourselves. The last thig we need is human beings with Grandiose beliefs in their selves. To whorship yourslef...of course you have to rule out God. Thanks for endulging me. Knereq avel pakasi hamar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Em, I think you make some very valid points and bring up a lot of good questions. For the record, I do not say (I cannot say) there is no such thing as God. Of course no one knowns what happened that fraction of a second before the big bang. But as long as you are open to the possibility that there might have been a big bang (not for sure but that it may have been due to what we can see), then you certainly have my respect! My main issue is with the Bible thumpers who insist God made man 6000 years ago when in fact there is a lot lot lot lot of evidence that there were a lot of "prehistoric" versions of man (let's not go as far as ape) that have roamed the Earth for many thousands of years and even some fossils from over a million year ago. I have issue with those that literally believe Noah fit all the animals on a boat that landed on Ararat. That is the kind of "God" believing that I redicule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Ashot, what do you think threndez(dance/jump over fire) is? What about madagh(animal sacrifice)? Do you think those are christian holidays or pagan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Azat jan, did they believe in a higher being? as in was the fire referred to as the GOD of those times? Azat jan also the sacrifice is mentioned all over the bible and Christianity accepts is!!! Therefore before believing in Fire the people must have accepted that fire is the higher being, we cannot explain the behavior of the people back in those days... But certainly we can pin point and prove that God was mentioned in every period of our History!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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