An Outrageous Denial Of Armenian Genocide

[elle]

So the Caspian basin isn't divided into 3-4 parts?

[Hellektor]

You're rather naive if you think that there is such a thing as an apolitical international law exclusivally runing on the bases of justice. This is a fable, a myth.

 

International Law is a load of words open for interpretation according to the results you want to achieve. We've seen this with Artsakh, the Armenian genocide, Armenia etc.

Domino jan,

 

I do read your posts when you reply mine, and I know it is too much to ask every user to read one's posts, but if you happen to follow some of mine, you'll find out as far as I'm concerned, our most important issue now is the keeping of the liberated territories around NKR, namely parts of the so-called field Artsakh.

 

If you follow ALL the reports, resolutions, statistics from all jewmanitarian organizations, you'll see that the ONLY issue is the “return” of the liberated territories to fake “Azerbaijan” and the “return” of “one million” “Azeri” parasites to stifle Artsakh. Not a word about Sumgait, Baku, Gandzak, Shahoomian, Maragha, etc. monstrosities, not a word about the 400,000 to half a million REAL Armenian refugees, not a word about the “Azeri” aggression, not a word about the destruction of Armenian monuments, NOT A WORD of justice. They don't seem to give a damn about the destiny of the people of Artsakh either.

 

I am not naïve. The RoA foreign policy is that of a loser country not a victorious one. I really hope that Vahan Hovanissian or the Arman Melikian guy would be elected, because I know that the Dashnaks do not accept the ceding of territories and Melikian's utmost priority is the keeping and repopulation of the liberated lands. But unfortunately the Soviet man in the majority of the Armenians of the RoA will not allow this to happen. They only think about higher wages and Mercedes and sending their son to the university. I only hope the Zionist traitors Levon Ter Petrossian or Arthur Baghdassarian are not elected because that will be really dangerous for Armenia.

 

If the surrounding lands of the so-called mountainous Artsakh are given to the Turds; that would be the end of Armenia because they will never be satisfied. Once they got territory in spite of losing the war, they will demand Siunik to remove the “hurdle” that keeps pan-Turkist delusion from becoming reality. Then they will chop the Armenia that will have no more borders with Iran into pieces and distribute it between themselves.

 

The Turks have NEVER tolerated and will NEVER tolerate the existence of an Armenia of any size, shape or form. That’s why Turkey perpetrated the Artsakh war, that’s the reason for the blockade, the BTC, the BTE, the BTAK, the genocide from 1071 to now.

 

Turks are wolves that will never be civilized. Turks will never become human beings. Turks are parasites that were created to destroy Armenia. Pan-Turkism is alive and kicking: see the assassination of Hrant Dink, the real naïve one who thought Turks would be tamed someday, see the 301 article that hasn’t moved a nanometer.

 

A patriotic RoA government will have to raise the Wilson issue as the only legal treaty as far as the delineation of the border between Turkey and Armenia so that the Judeo-Saxon faggots will back off from asking land for fake “Azerbaijan”. Armenians are terrible in foreign policy. A patriotic government will stop the bluff and clearly state that Armenia has no land to offer the Turds, if they want peace, let them sign a peace treaty and go on with their lives. If they start war, the Baku-Israel pipeline will have to be shoved up the asses of the English faggots who built it for their Jewish masters. That’s the last thing they want. Armenians must get the upper hand in the “negociations” and stop acting like losers.

 

Armenia is small, land locked and has no oil. Armenians are far from having the impact the Jews have. This could have been OK, had Armenia and Armenians not been opposed by a NATO nation which has as much impact, and another which has one of the highest oil reserve in the world.

For this, check out this article from the faggots themselves.

 

Since Stratfor is members only, you can check it out here too.

 

I have always said: the oil in “Azerbaijan” is enough for the English poufs to produce Vaseline for lubricating their faggot arses to better accommodate the Turkish coke. BTC is nothing but a PR stunt to show that Turds are important, while they are garbage. The moment the hundreds of billions of US dollars that are shoved down the putrid throat of the Sik Fuk of Europe are gone, the Turks will start devouring donkeys. Later when these are no more available, they will gulp down their own whelps. It is Turkey that needs the West not vice versa.

 

The international law ignore us, then we should ignore the so-called international law which interpretation change according to the interest of those who enforce it. When international law adhered with the concept of justice in the Armenian case?

That’s where you are terribly mistaken and I think I have explained why in this post.

 

[Arpa]

I read in this forum a while ago that Ara Abrahamian hired numerous lawyers from one of the best European law firms to deal with the territorial claims of historical Armenia.

So what's the status now? Are we actually working towards taking Turkey to the International Court? I only read that Turkey legally can be tried in the International Court for territorial claims and reparations. Are we working on that now or are we only talking about it while sitting on our behinds?

===

Anyways, I'd love to see something major and positive in regards to the AG during my lifetime...I'm almost approaching my 25th b-day now, so with my calculations I have another 50 years remaining, so hope something good comes out and that I'll be around to see/hear about it!!

Dear Elle, can you read Armenian?

Please go to History and read the article in Treaty of Sevre.

[vava]

Hellektor: I once again ask you to refrain from continually using offensive language here. You don't seem to realize that your arguments would gain considerable weight if communicated properly rather than the crude, hate-steeped rants that you favour. You may think that your metaphors are "colourful" but I assure you, it undermines your credibility and I'm certain some readers simply dismiss you as yet another fanatical freak. Shame, that.

[moi]

Thanks for the explanations...

This is "elle" but with my previous nick name, since I forgot my recent log in title....so I used the old one, which I thought I forgot about, but seems like I didn’t!

 

Anyways........I understand that legally we can claim back our lost territories. Thanks for the link...I can read Armenian and I will definitely check out that website. I'm still wondering if any of our politicians are doing anything on this matter? Are there any plans in the near future (let's say within 10 years) to bring this matter to the attention of the international community? Are there any active talks going on in Armenia about this? What are they waiting for now? The final settlement of Nagorno-Karabakh situation?

 

I really hope that the present administration in Armenia have considered this. As I understand, this isn't something that might be concentrated on in the near future right? Maybe I sound naive in saying this, but I hope that Kocharyan and the rest of his people do consider shedding light on Treaty of Sevres and territorial claims in front of others.

 

Another thing that crossed my mind and maybe you can enlighten me on this......I'm thinking that given the fact that Russia is seen so much antagonistic from its "satellite" countries.....isn't it in Russia's interest to have Armenia expanded? Let's face it...it's not like once we expand we will slide away from being another "satellite" country of Russia and there is a chance that Russia might feel threatened that the expansion of Armenia might pose a threat to itself. Whether Armenia expands or shrinks (god forbid!), it will always need Russia due to the fact that it's surrounded with hostile countries all around.

 

So...since Armenia is almost what is left of the Caucasus for Russia, why not have the Russian help in our territorial claims...indirectly of course?

Having Turkey with it's US military bases...almost under it's nose is sure not making the Russians happy! Another thing...by looking at the world map one thing I found interesting is how the US/EU/Jews have put Russia in check so to speak!

 

Consider this.......

Russia has been "surrounded" by the Western alliance (Jews in charge!) all around.

Central and Eastern European countries are part of the NATO now, they're also part of the EU, the only loyal "ally" that Russia has left in Eastern Europe is Belarus and Serbia in the Balkans!

Now going to Central Asia... after so called "9/11" US managed to occupy Afghanistan, it has close ties with Pakistan, and few other Central Asian countries also have US military bases in their territories if I remember correctly! So....some part of Central Asia has shifted to the US military control already!

Now the Caucasus region.......You all know the situation in Georgia and the NATO membership aspirations of the Georgians and the Azeris! The Western oil corporations are already deep rooted in Azerbaijan. The only ally that Russia has is Armenia in the Caucasus! I'm not counting South Ossetia and Abkhazia, since they're not sovereign countries. YET!

 

Seems like the NATO/EU/Jew/US have surrounded Russia to make sure that Russia won't be able to expand again like it did right before the Soviet Union! It's very interesting I think....Seems like this 'expansion" of 9/11 might deal with the fact that the West doesn't want to see Russia any bigger than what it is now, so it has surrounded it through different means. It's also interesting how the West is expanding through NATO and the EU, but they managed to keep Russia within it's borders, by making sure that no other Warsaw Pact might be the result of current independent Russia! No wonder why the Russian responded so harshly to the US plans of having missiles in the Czech Republic!

 

Kopit asats Amerikatsiner@ irants vopshe dzeren arel arden…kamel habrgelen vonts hayastanumen asum.

 

I think with what's happening in the world right now...a leader like Putin couldn't come at any better time for Russia! Although the Russians have an antagonistic attitude when it comes to the West, I can't say that you can blame them after the way the West is expanding towards the Russian borders whether it's through EU or NATO.

 

The reason why I mentioned Russia......since Armenia is one of the few countries that truly is an "ally" of Russia, then why not have Russian help in this....help in bringing forth the territorial claims? I really don't see a reason why Russia will not want to see a smaller Turkey and a bigger Armenia when it's Armenia that's the ally. After all, they recently moved the Georgian military base to Armenia...further expanding their military bases in our country. I would assume that it does show that Russia definitely has interest in Armenia...as one of the few post-Soviet countries that it's still hanging on to.

 

Another good move by Putin...going to Tehran amidst all the talks about the Iranian "threat!" I think the West is more of a threat to the Iranians with it's constant threat of attacks, than the Iranians themselves!

 

I think that the only way that Armenia should take back Naxichevan is if Azerbaijan makes the first move on us! That way we will point our finger at them for starting it first.

 

Another question I have that relates to Russia. Anything will change since Russia transferred it military base from Georgia to Armenia? Of course, that benefits us from any threat, but will these Russian bases play a significant role in a future Armenia-Azeri war? After all, I highly doubt that Russia will sit back and watch (in our own country!) how the Armenians and Azeris are fighting? I mean having all this military base in Armenia is not only there against the Turkish threats right?

 

Also, isn't there an agreement signed between both countries on supporting each other in times of war?

I think that Armenia can use itself in a beneficial way, if it chooses the right steps and avenues so to speak.

I think that the US attack on Iran is given...sometime this year maybe, unless Iran announces that it has a nuclear weapon already, but that won't be the case. I remember how the US stopped talking about N. Korea right after it announced that it has nuclear weapons! Funny!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ashot]

Another question I have that relates to Russia. Anything will change since Russia transferred it military base from Georgia to Armenia? Of course, that benefits us from any threat, but will these Russian bases play a significant role in a future Armenia-Azeri war? After all, I highly doubt that Russia will sit back and watch (in our own country!) how the Armenians and Azeris are fighting? I mean having all this military base in Armenia is not only there against the Turkish threats right?

 

Get a load of this... Put stated that "if any country, comes as close as touching it's base anywhere in the world, Russia will take all the measures and press all the way towards destruction and full control of the given country" so for exampe if azebadrjan attacks Armenia or Nagorno Karabakh, where there are a lot of Russian bases due to the transfer of the bases from Georgia to Armenia, Russia will help Armenia with full powers to take over Azebadjan it will push all the way!!! it also applies to the Furks and every one else!!!

 

So...since Armenia is almost what is left of the Caucasus for Russia, why not have the Russian help in our territorial claims...indirectly of course?

Having Turkey with it's US military bases...almost under it's nose is sure not making the Russians happy! Another thing...by looking at the world map one thing I found interesting is how the US/EU/Jews have put Russia in check so to speak!

 

In a way my statement does answer most of your question regarding the Russian-Armenian relations...

 

 

Seems like the NATO/EU/Jew/US have surrounded Russia to make sure that Russia won't be able to expand again like it did right before the Soviet Union! It's very interesting I think....Seems like this 'expansion" of 9/11 might deal with the fact that the West doesn't want to see Russia any bigger than what it is now, so it has surrounded it through different means. It's also interesting how the West is expanding through NATO and the EU, but they managed to keep Russia within it's borders, by making sure that no other Warsaw Pact might be the result of current independent Russia! No wonder why the Russian responded so harshly to the US plans of having missiles in the Czech Republic!

 

Don't be fooled by the Russians... do you think they care where America or the joos have missles or control? Russian politics is very complex and very hard to understand. They will take over the countries surrounding them if they want to within few months... they will not let the same mistake happen as it did in WWII. Do you really think if Russia declares war it will be afraid of the NATO? not really, because right before it decales war, most of these countries that are under the control of the US will loose their control and turn over to Russia, do you really think that all the governments lost their minds and they want to be against the great RUSSIA? all of them would we whiped out all of a sudden if they stay against Russia!!! The two faced governments want a support from the US for their money, nothing else!!! All of them hate the US!!! Russia lets American forces to be in Iraq, if they wanted to they would tell the Americans to get the heck out, bayts Rusastanin dzerq chi talis, vorovhetev inchqan shat Iraqum mnan Amerikatsiner@ enqan tulanumen... gnalov xexchanumen, isk Rusastan@ uzheghanuma!!!

Today Russia is the only country that does not have any debt to the world, it has closed all the depts and started raising it's funds!!! little by little Russia is becoming the dream country, the best in the wordls... so beleive it or not, whatever the joos and the Americans are doing is not bothering Russia at all!!!

 

 

 

 

[Lev7]

The Jewish congress of the United Slaves of Jhudistan is using the issue as a lever to emotionally blackmail Turks and Armenians alike to get what they want from both: Concessions from the Turks, endless waiting for recognition so that only after that we'll be allowed to shift to the compensation phase. This is why I believe the jUS congress will never pass that insignificant 106 resolution.

 

But what about the fact that 90% of the senators in the House Foreign Relations Committee who voted for the resolution? You seem to blame everything on Jews, but stop and think for a second that one of the reasons that the US is not officially recognizing the AG is because it goes against its national interests, one of them loosing Turkey. I mean the geopolitics have changed considerably after the break up of the SU and the occupation of Iraq, but USA still needs Turkey and it is not willing to sacrifice geopolitics and strategic oil routes for one resolution. The fact that we got this far and stirred up so much heat in the world with this one resolution calls for a victory. So many times when I read HR 106 related articles I see words such as "the powerful Armenian lobby". We need to continue this momentum and we need to effectively use the media like Jews are doing to put forward our agenda. So many Armenian-Americans own various media companies, why aren't they doing something? Kirk's company owned the MGM studios, I did not see any movies about the AG released or sponsored. Americans are very naive and they will listen to anything the media says, that is why most of them believe that 9/11 happened because Arabs truly hate democracy and America without even stopping for a second and thinking that the US-Israeli "close" relationship had something to do with it. When will Armenians learn? Hopefully this new generation will make a difference, I truly hope!

Edited January 24, 2008 by Lev7

[elle]

I watch the Russian news on TV almost everyday, since we have OPT1 in my house. The country has definitely changed, since it's crisis in 1997 under Yeltsin. Just watching their news, it's obvious how far the Russians have come!

I'm also familiar with the recent statement that Putin made in regards to any threat/attack of its allies! No wonder they're sending a military base to Serbia as a result of ongoing talks around Kosovo's independence. I'm just glad that we're not like the dumba$$ Georgians with their idiotic current politics. That's what happens when you end up backstabbing a neighbor....after all Georgians are exerts on backstabbing! The Russian case should be another example.

 

 

Get a load of this... Put stated that "if any country, comes as close as touching it's base anywhere in the world, Russia will take all the measures and press all the way towards destruction and full control of the given country" so for exampe if azebadrjan attacks Armenia or Nagorno Karabakh, where there are a lot of Russian bases due to the transfer of the bases from Georgia to Armenia, Russia will help Armenia with full powers to take over Azebadjan it will push all the way!!! it also applies to the Furks and every one else!!!

 

 

 

In a way my statement does answer most of your question regarding the Russian-Armenian relations...

 

 

Don't be fooled by the Russians... do you think they care where America or the joos have missles or control? Russian politics is very complex and very hard to understand. They will take over the countries surrounding them if they want to within few months... they will not let the same mistake happen as it did in WWII. Do you really think if Russia declares war it will be afraid of the NATO? not really, because right before it decales war, most of these countries that are under the control of the US will loose their control and turn over to Russia, do you really think that all the governments lost their minds and they want to be against the great RUSSIA? all of them would we whiped out all of a sudden if they stay against Russia!!! The two faced governments want a support from the US for their money, nothing else!!! All of them hate the US!!! Russia lets American forces to be in Iraq, if they wanted to they would tell the Americans to get the heck out, bayts Rusastanin dzerq chi talis, vorovhetev inchqan shat Iraqum mnan Amerikatsiner@ enqan tulanumen... gnalov xexchanumen, isk Rusastan@ uzheghanuma!!!

Today Russia is the only country that does not have any debt to the world, it has closed all the depts and started raising it's funds!!! little by little Russia is becoming the dream country, the best in the wordls... so beleive it or not, whatever the joos and the Americans are doing is not bothering Russia at all!!!

 

I heard about how Putin paid off the debt and kicked IMF out of the country. It's amazing how the IMF came with "good" intentions to fix the Russian economy (like it always does, but yet some of these countries end up in a serious crisis because of IMF's proposals), but ended up screwing up the whole country. The fact that they paid off everything and sent them back is a major step for Russia. After all, a giganic resouce rich country like Russia has no reason to rely on anyone, but itself. Politics of Vladimir Putin proves just that!

I have no doubt that Russia can influence the politics of the US/Israel in the Middle East and I'm pretty sure that a US/Israeli attack on Iran won't let the US/Israel off the hook so easily...nothing like Iraq!

[Ashot]

true that true that... here is another fact, name a single country in the world that has it's country's 90% support the president so much that they made him make the ultimate decision, of making the prime minister the president and making himself the prime minister...

80% of the people belong to the party called "Yedinaya Rassiya" translates to Rassia as One, and they nominated Putin to be the president of Yedinaya Rassiya, and he accepted, so he is a true leader and a true power in the world... when these dumb ass Americans say there is nothing left of Russia - they are mistaken and seriously underestimating Russia's NEW POWER... it is perhaps more powerful then one may imagine!!!

[Ashot]

Elle jan, look at this http://hyeforum.com/index.php?s=&showt...st&p=226689

[elle]

Isnt' it funny how they're complaining about Putin's "totalitarian" regime? HA!

That just cracks me up!

The way the US media is presenting the situation in Russia is as if Putin forced people to like him, forced people to vote for him, forced people to support his decision to become the prime minister of Russia. They're so deluded when it comes to their own democracy in this country, that they only label others. I can't believe that the US called the Soviet Union as the "evil" Empire at one point in our history....so what did that make the Americans in the Soviet eyes? LOL

Most Americans are as much disillusioned about what's going on around them in regards to politics and their government as the Turks/Azeris are...... who are constantly fed false information about Armenia...among other things!

 

I think the best thing for people to do is to live in their own soil and in their own society...that's my final thought for tonight! Until tomorrow!

[elle]

BTW.... I hope you guy already know that the Foreign Minister of Russia...Sergei Lavrov is Armenian? His father is Armenian from Tbilisi!

 

Here's his bio.....

 

Sergey Viktorovich Lavrov (Russian: Серге́й Ви́кторович Лавро́в, born March 21, 1950, in Moscow) is the Foreign Minister of Russia.

 

He is a Armenian-Russian, his father was an Armenian from Tbilisi [1].

 

Lavrov speaks Russian, English, French and, according to his biography, Sinhala[2], which he learned while in Sri Lanka. He plays guitar, writes poetry and rafts.

 

Too bad he doesn't speak Armenian!

He has a typical Armenian face too!

[Ashot]

He thinks in Armenian, that's good enough!!!

[elle]

Sometimes with "Russian" it could mean Jewish too...so I really hope that he's only half Russian an not Jewish.

[Hellektor]

But what about the fact that 90% of the senators in the House Foreign Relations Committee who voted for the resolution? You seem to blame everything on Jews, but stop and think for a second that one of the reasons that the US is not officially recognizing the AG is because it goes against its national interests, one of them loosing Turkey.

I have said it a zillion times and your answer is in my last post on this very page:

 

...BTC is nothing but a PR stunt to show that Turds are important, while they are garbage. The moment the hundreds of billions of US dollars that are shoved down the putrid throat of the Sik Fuk of Europe are gone, the Turks will start devouring donkeys. Later when these are no more available, they will gulp down their own whelps. It is Turkey that needs the West not vice versa.

 

I mean the geopolitics have changed considerably after the break up of the SU and the occupation of Iraq, but USA still needs Turkey and it is not willing to sacrifice geopolitics and strategic oil routes for one resolution.

You are free to believe what you want to believe. You believe the bullshit the dumphuque retard W parrots after having memorized the texts written by Jews like David Frum. I laugh at it. Turkey is nothing, Turkey has nothing. US has alternatives for the Jew perpetrated Iraq war: the Persian Gulf puppet states.

 

Have you sometimes noticed the disgusting liquid with a repulsive stench that leaks from a trashcan? Turkey is the most worthless liquid garbage ever to have leaked from the trashcan of the universe. Turks are garbage, they will stifle in less than a year without the jUS aid. However, Turks are a million times better than us in selling their garbage. Once again I repeat: Turkey is like a horridly repulsive looking old whore that somehow manages to sell her decomposing cadaver at an exorbitant price.

 

Just today on Հ1 (Hyeloor) they said "here is a joke to end the news: a Turkish "scholar" delivered a speech in Belgium where he said that the Belgians are ancient Turks." This species of worthless Human Civilization-deficiency Virus wants territory from everyone. They have proved beyond an iota of a doubt and without feeling the need to present an epsilon of proof that the Native Americans are in fact Turks.

 

The same goes for Sumerians, Arameans, Hurrians, Hittites, Greeks, Parthians, Elamite, Manni, Mittani, Arrata, Medians, Urartu, Achaemenids, Lydians, Thracians, Aluanians, Egyptians, Assyrians, Akkadians, Babylonians, Etruscans, Scythians, Eskimo, Incas, Aztecs, Mayas, Martians, Saturnans, Jupiterians and heaven knows what not.

 

This is not because they are garbage and have civilization envy. It is all because they crave territory from all of these peoples and their descendants.

 

Right now as we speak (Ok, write) the Armenian Genocide goes on in a thousand and one forms. I'll cite dozens of examples if you wish. This vicious-atrocious, bloodsucking vermin will never stop their monstrosity unless we make sure pan-Turkism is dead. The Armenia you see on my avatar is the last nail in the coffin of pan-Turkism, but the Khazar Jews who are largely responsible for inventing this sick delusion, will do everything to sabotage our cause.

 

The fact that we got this far and stirred up so much heat in the world with this one resolution calls for a victory. So many times when I read HR 106 related articles I see words such as "the powerful Armenian lobby". We need to continue this momentum and we need to effectively use the media like Jews are doing to put forward our agenda.

If the Jews were to read this they would have a good laugh. No offence, but you are so naïve! What powerful lobby? We have the truth and that's our only power. They are saying those things to force us to just think about this unimportant resolution, void of any value, instead of using our energy to demand the 40% of our homeland that LEGALLY belongs to us. This is how they use the lever. They keep us giving rotten carrot of hope then they use the stick.

 

The HR 106 is nothing but a lever to emotionally blackmail Turks and Armenians alike. The only way this insignificant, non-binding, impotent resolution will pass is the day this lever has lost its use. And that is the day the government of the Republic of Armenia raises the Wilson arbitration issue. This has to happen sooner rather than later and if you like I can explain why.

 

To conclude, I give you an example and make a bet with you:

 

Barak Obama recently said that in case he is elected, he will certainly do anything to pass the resolution. This is my bet with you:

 

If he is elected - this is an impossible case, because the Jews won't allow a slightly darker skinned person, or a woman for that matter, enter the white house - I bet the Jews and Turds will set up a farce like that of the attack on Kurds and Obama will appear on TV, addressing the Union that "we know that the events of 1915 were tragic for Armenians, but AT THIS VERY MOMENT we should put the interests of our nation first and stop the congress from passing the resolution (i.e. the stingy Jews can't let the lever go)". If this didn't happen, you come here and give me the middle finger.

 

but stop and think for a second that one of the reasons that the US is not officially recognizing the AG...

Who said that? Please do take your time and read the fukking resolution. It is pretty short and oh, wonder! I got it from the website of Armenian hating English faggots.

 

[elle]

Hellektor,

 

I agree with what you said above, but please explain one thing if you can.

In one of my above posts I asked about when and how will Armenian Republic start concentrating on territorial claims?

 

You mentioned that sonner or later it has to happen, so is Armenia actually doing something as of now?

I mean what's Armenia's position anyways?

I remember reading some on-line article that claimed that Robert Kocharyan has told the Turkish government that Armenia will not be pressing for territorial return in exchange for something, which I don't remember what it was anymore. I read something like this long time ago, so it's not clear in my head what they were exactly referring to.

Could you please comment on this.

 

I mean what happened with hiring great lawyers who deal with international law? Didn't someone already say that Ara Abrahamian has already hired lawyers from EU firms?

[Ashot]

Elle jan, Kocharyan said tha tArmenia wil not be pressing for territorial return in exchange for recognition of the AG... that's actually a like offering a candy to a child. It's like saying you recognise the AG and we won't ask for the lands back, but international law will make Turkey give land back as soon as they accept the AG fact...

[AVO]

The current position of Armenian government is that they don't have any preconditions to start a dialog and relations with Turkey.

 

Turkey wants Armenia to stop supporting NKR and give up the worldwide recognition of the genocide.

 

Of course later Armenia can bring up the territorial claims, since right now it nether says that it has claims nor denies it.

[elle]

Elle jan, Kocharyan said tha tArmenia wil not be pressing for territorial return in exchange for recognition of the AG... that's actually a like offering a candy to a child. It's like saying you recognise the AG and we won't ask for the lands back, but international law will make Turkey give land back as soon as they accept the AG fact...

 

 

Got it! Makes sense!

So now we need to wait until Turkey recognizes its crimes in order to start our territorial claims?

That could take a decade, if not longer.

For example, does Armenia have the right to announce tomorrow that it's demanding historical lands back?

 

Another thing....let's say that Kurdistan will be created in the near future and most of us know that they're eyeing the Armenian territories. Just look at their maps and you will see that in their eyes Kurdistan border present day Armenia.

 

If a Kurdish state is created tomorrow...on our own lands, what will happen when we haven't even brought our own demands of our lands to the table. Wouldn't it be fair to say that since the time hasn't ran out (in terms of the creation of Kurdistan), Armenia should start its own process of getting the lands back?

 

The whole thing is puzzling for me because i don't understand what it is that Armenia is waiting for? Perhaps it's afraid that the psycho Turks might attack the country after Armenia announces what it needs? Well..that would be an impossibility due to the big Russian military presence in the border. based on what Putin ahs stated in recent past about attacking it's allies, I hihgly doubt that the Turks will risk going into war with a country that has Ruissian bases within it's territory.

 

 

 

 

 

[AVO]

Elle, creation of a Kurdish state inside of Turkey is highly unlikely. But an independent Kurdistan in northern Iraq is probable. The only way for Turkey to loose territory is to Armenians. Turks would just kill all the Kurds instead of giving them an independent country. They are in the same position that we were in the beginning of the last century. They are killing innocent civilians and saying that their being attacked by the PKK and nobody does anything.

[Lev7]

You are free to believe what you want to believe. You believe the bullshit the dumphuque retard W parrots after having memorized the texts written by Jews like David Frum. I laugh at it. Turkey is nothing, Turkey has nothing. US has alternatives for the Jew perpetrated Iraq war: the Persian Gulf puppet states.

 

Have you sometimes noticed the disgusting liquid with a repulsive stench that leaks from a trashcan? Turkey is the most worthless liquid garbage ever to have leaked from the trashcan of the universe. Turks are garbage, they will stifle in less than a year without the jUS aid. However, Turks are a million times better than us in selling their garbage. Once again I repeat: Turkey is like a horridly repulsive looking old whore that somehow manages to sell her decomposing cadaver at an exorbitant price.

 

Just today on Հ1 (Hyeloor) they said "here is a joke to end the news: a Turkish "scholar" delivered a speech in Belgium where he said that the Belgians are ancient Turks." This species of worthless Human Civilization-deficiency Virus wants territory from everyone. They have proved beyond an iota of a doubt and without feeling the need to present an epsilon of proof that the Native Americans are in fact Turks.

 

The same goes for Sumerians, Arameans, Hurrians, Hittites, Greeks, Parthians, Elamite, Manni, Mittani, Arrata, Medians, Urartu, Achaemenids, Lydians, Thracians, Aluanians, Egyptians, Assyrians, Akkadians, Babylonians, Etruscans, Scythians, Eskimo, Incas, Aztecs, Mayas, Martians, Saturnans, Jupiterians and heaven knows what not.

 

This is not because they are garbage and have civilization envy. It is all because they crave territory from all of these peoples and their descendants.

 

Right now as we speak (Ok, write) the Armenian Genocide goes on in a thousand and one forms. I'll cite dozens of examples if you wish. This vicious-atrocious, bloodsucking vermin will never stop their monstrosity unless we make sure pan-Turkism is dead. The Armenia you see on my avatar is the last nail in the coffin of pan-Turkism, but the Khazar Jews who are largely responsible for inventing this sick delusion, will do everything to sabotage our cause.

 

If you are saying that Turkey is worthless and it has absolutely zero geopolitical importance, then why do they have so much weight when it comes to the decisions affecting America's foreign policy? You seem to be a little bit delusional with your conspiracy theories that Jews control the world. Yes, Jews hold a lot of important positions in US, but what makes you think they all act in sync? You are trying to simplify the whole process by blaming everything on Jews, but geopolitics and politics in general is very complicated. The more Armenians have this mentality the less we will achieve in our struggle. This just creates more hate. I mean, if we can't beat them, lets join them. Why fight the Jews, lets pretend we are their friends and act like they do. By spreading this kind of a mentality will just hurt us, I mean you say a little thing against Jews in the states and you are labeled as an anti-Semite. Why bring unncessary heat towards us? We know our enemy and lets keep focused and don't get sidetracked.

 

By just saying that Turkey is worthless does not really help to ansewr a lot of question. I am sorry my friend but you are naive here. You need to try to analyze this issue more thoroughly and from all sides. We can and we will get the AG recognized here, it is just a matter of time. We just need to learn from the Jews and use their own techniques in getting our voices heard and making our cause into the mainstream American culture. Effective media campaigns is the key!

 

If the Jews were to read this they would have a good laugh. No offence, but you are so naïve! What powerful lobby? We have the truth and that's our only power. They are saying those things to force us to just think about this unimportant resolution, void of any value, instead of using our energy to demand the 40% of our homeland that LEGALLY belongs to us. This is how they use the lever. They keep us giving rotten carrot of hope then they use the stick.

 

The HR 106 is nothing but a lever to emotionally blackmail Turks and Armenians alike. The only way this insignificant, non-binding, impotent resolution will pass is the day this lever has lost its use. And that is the day the government of the Republic of Armenia raises the Wilson arbitration issue. This has to happen sooner rather than later and if you like I can explain why.

 

Actually most of the articles which I read were written by non-Jews. We do have a powerful lobby which is not based on money but grassroots activism and this calls for a big thumbs up. If every Armenian-American could put a small effort into our causes, we would have achieved much much more. Unfortunately a lot of us would rather spend their cash gambling in Vegas or spend all their time bashing Jews, Turks, Americans than doing something meaningful.

 

Jews have managed to paint Israel as this beacon of democracy while killing thousands of Palestinians and we by having the truth on our side still fail to achieve US recognition of the Genocide. Should we blame the Jews? NO, we can only blame us!

 

[elle]

My friend came across this website and asked me to check it out too.

I did and I find it interesting!

Anyone ever seen this blog?

 

They have the info on the Zionists and the Armenian Genocide too! Check it out for yourselves please. I ahve only pasted one link, but you will find much more articles on everything that deals with Zionists, Turkey, Armenian Genocide, Turkish denial, etc.

 

http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/4773#comment-23429

 

 

[Ashot]

Elle jan, one of the biggest issues it they cannot decide where to let the kurdish become independent state because of the Armenian issue... unless the Armenian issue is not settled Kurds will never get lands of their own... not even in Iraq!!!

[elle]

Elle jan, one of the biggest issues it they cannot decide where to let the kurdish become independent state because of the Armenian issue... unless the Armenian issue is not settled Kurds will never get lands of their own... not even in Iraq!!!

 

 

Ashot jan, please check out the above link I posted here. Some very good points raised in it.

Never thought that Pelosi is a double agent! The Kurdistan issue is also mentioned and seems like all the rumors of a large-scale Turkish attack on Kurdistan was a hoax...well more of a big talk to motivate it's people. The guy raises some interesting points when it comes to why Turkey will never invade Kurdistan! Check it out please.

[Hellektor]

Hellektor,

 

I agree with what you said above, but please explain one thing if you can.

In one of my above posts I asked about when and how will Armenian Republic start concentrating on territorial claims?

 

You mentioned that sonner or later it has to happen, so is Armenia actually doing something as of now?

Dear elle,

 

If you take your time and visit the wilsonforarmenia.am website, download all the PDFs on the site or read some articles by Ara Papian, you'll see what a powerful and bulletproof document the Wilson arbitration is. You'll also do good if you read this article by Papian, that I posted, manually converting the PDF into BB code rather that normal copy/pasting it.

 

I know many Armenians look at this affair with total skepticism, no, pessimism. Many dismiss it, associating it with the Dashnaks, especially the people from Armenia who for seventy years have been poisoned with that Abrahamic religion with its Jewish prophet Carl Marx.

 

For instance, Domino in his last answer advised me that “The international law ignore us, then we should ignore the so-called international law which interpretation change according to the interest of those who enforce it. When international law adhered with the concept of justice in the Armenian case?”. Knowing him being the encyclopedia of the forum I was amazed that he believes we shouldn't even give this a chance.

 

The Wilson arbitration is different from all the examples Domino cites, it’s a legal, valid and binding document signed by Armenia, Turkey and 16 sovereign governments. No matter how many photos from the AG, survivor accounts, eyewitness accounts, etc., we present, the Turk will find a way to deny the Genocide. Even if it were possible to go back in time and videotape the events, they would say it is the Armenians who are killing the Turds. Look what happened with the destruction of the Jugha cemetery.

 

I will rephrase what I've been saying all along and I hope this will help elucidate the point:

 

First off, let's look at this legal document as dryly and objectively as possible.

 

I. The Woodrow Wilson arbitration has nothing to do with the ratification or not of the treaty of Sèvres , therefore the Turkish disinformation that Sèvres is void because it was never ratified doesn't hold water. Why? Because according to the treaty, better said the articles 89 and 90:

 

Article 89.

Turkey and Armenia, as well as the other High Contracting Parties agree to submit to the arbitration of the President of the United States of America the question of the frontier to be fixed between Turkey and Armenia in the Vilayets of Erzerum, Trebizond, Van and Bitlis, and to accept his decision thereupon, as well as any stipulations he may prescribe as to access for Armenia to the sea, and as to the demilitarization of any portion of Turkish territory adjacent to the said frontier. (all emphases are mine. Hell.)

 

The magical word in this article is thereupon =Synonyms: at once, betimes, directly, first, freshly, instantaneously, instantly, newly, presto, primitively, promptly, recently, right away, seasonably, soon, straightway, summarily, thereon, thereupon, timely, without delay

Antonyms: belatedly, tardily

 

(I only pasted the definitions from the first set).

 

This means THE MOMENT “Turkey and Armenia, as well as the other High Contracting Parties” AGREED on “submit[ting] to the arbitration of the President of the United States of America the question of the frontier to be fixed between Turkey and Armenia”, FROM THAT VERY MOMENT:

 

ARTICLE 90.

In the event of the determination of the frontier under Article 89 involving the transfer of the whole or any part of the territory of the said Vilayets to Armenia, Turkey hereby renounces as from the date of such decision (my emphasis, this renders the ratification or not of the treaty irrelevant to the decision of Wilson’s arbitration. Hell.) all rights and title over the territory so transferred. The provisions of the present Treaty applicable to territory detached from Turkey shall thereupon become applicable to the said territory…

 

Got it?

 

II. The Wilson Arbitration has nothing to do with the Armenian Genocide, therefore the Jew appointed clowns in the White House will utter the term “Armenian Genocide” or not does not change its value. It’s like legal deeds in our hand to four of our provinces.

 

III. Since Wilson signed the arbitration on November 20 1920 and only ten days later, the Abrahamic religion of the Jewish prophet Carl Marx was imposed on Armenia, it stopped existing as a subject of international law, the only body that can participate in such matters.

 

IV. Since for 70 years Armenia did not exist as an independent state, i.e. a subject of international law, Armenians had to do all they could to get the Armenian Genocide recognized, and rightly so, because had they (hypothetically speaking) “forgotten” the matter, bringing it up after a long time would lose its legitimacy.

 

I mean what's Armenia's position anyways?

 

I remember reading some on-line article that claimed that Robert Kocharyan has told the Turkish government that Armenia will not be pressing for territorial return in exchange for something, which I don't remember what it was anymore. I read something like this long time ago, so it's not clear in my head what they were exactly referring to.

Could you please comment on this.

 

I mean what happened with hiring great lawyers who deal with international law? Didn't someone already say that Ara Abrahamian has already hired lawyers from EU firms?

The 70 years of brainwash have left their scars on the majority of the people of Armenia where higher wages and a luxury car matter more than realizing the danger of pan-Turkism, still-hell bent on the destruction of Armenia. However, there are voices who warn of the calamity that will befall Armenia if the government cedes the surrounding liberated area around the so-called mountainous Artsakh.

 

Let's hope in a not so far future a patriotic government will come to power which will raise the Wilson arbitration issue, the sooner the better and if you want I'll explain why this is really urgent.

 

In the end let me tell you, while the time the process starts good lawyers will be needed to further the issue, no lawyer can raise it because as I said only an internationally recognized state, that is, a subject of international law has the power do that.

 

I hope this was clear enough, don't hesitate to put further questions, while I'm not the encyclopedia Domino is, I'll do my best to explain the issue.