nairi Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 I can't believe I'm reading this. First Nairi, now you? This has nothing to do with shame, but everything to do with respecting another person next to you, be it your long-time lover or a new acquaintance. Why do we have to let go of ourselves? Why not try to be the best we can be in the presence of those we love? If you can't even feel comfortable and at home with your partner, what's the point? Nairi and Edward, do you think it's ok to belch and fart in front of your parents and kids as well? Surely, you reason that you feel very comfortable and close to them as well? You have not met my father yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Nobody's "forcing" anything. If someone (man or woman) desires to partake in a particular relationship, he/she chooses to adapt to the said relationship. If you don't want to "change" in some manner, you are always free to terminate the relationship. Besides, who's to say the woman is not compromising when she "allows" her man to behave in a manner she doesn't appreciate? Compromise goes both ways, and amongst consenting adults, I see nothing particularly wrong with it. The voice of reason speaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 If you can't even feel comfortable and at home with your partner, what's the point? You have not met my father yet. All right, Nairi, it's a personal choice then, like someone already mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 (edited) giving up on certain things (or changing yourself) to be accepted by a woman is not a compromise, it's submission... compromise is when you agree to give up on certain thing in return of her giving up on other certain thing... either way you're f'ed up... the first one creates a win-lose situation and you are the loser... the second one creates a lose-lose situation... the same goes for women of course... Edited August 14, 2007 by Harut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 .... the second one creates a lose-lose situation... or gain-gain, depending on how you look at things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 It's interesting that the females thought this way. However, I never said anything about finding anyone with the exact same values or someone who is in tune with you on everything. Are you folks reading the same thread? It's about finding someone who will accept you for you are and not make you compromise and try to change you (both your core values of who you are, as well as little shit like what kind of movies you want to watch, because as anyone in relationships know, arguments revolve around the little things, habits, choices, etc.). It has nothing to do with finding someone who has the same and identical values as you. However, it is everything about how women have this innate drive and nature to try to 'change a man'. It's sort of hardwired in their 'makeover' gene, like when they get a room, they want to decorate and do a makeover. They try the same thing with their men. And if this stance is going to curse me to a life of solitude, then so be it. I do not consider myself a relationship expert at all, but let me notice, most of the people who discuss this topic are not married or have kids... People DO change in time... Anonimouse, are you the same person with the same habbits that you were lets say 10 years ago? I am positive you are not...Everything around us has great effect on the personality we develop, things that seem impossible to do when we're 18 become a regular chore at 25...The point i am trying to make is that after we have kids and family, some of the wishes and desires become secondary (that includes farting,.. etc, and that makes us change our personality (or our lifestyle maybe)... I see your point..There ARE women that act "my way or No way"...But most women try to do what is better for their family, if that includes asking their husband to come home earlier that 3 in a morning, i would not call it "inner drive to change a man" ... I might be wrong...Who knows... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 or gain-gain, depending on how you look at things. well, it depends how good your negotiation skills are and how little you can give up in return of a big gain and at the same time convince your spose that he/she got a great deal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 I can't believe I'm reading this. First Nairi, now you? This has nothing to do with shame, but everything to do with respecting another person next to you, be it your long-time lover or a new acquaintance. Why do we have to let go of ourselves? Why not try to be the best we can be in the presence of those we love? Nairi and Edward, do you think it's ok to belch and fart in front of your parents and kids as well? Surely, you reason that you feel very comfortable and close to them as well? show me where I said in front of childreen and parents, public or in general "out there", what I said was, your loved one and after so many many years you feel like you two becaame one you wouldent know, but wait 20 more years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 has oanyone flew a cross country flight on any airline laitly? fewwwwww now thats discasting . take a good dump before the flight and just eat snakes Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Hahahaha about the flights ... that's why I drive from WI to CA any chance I get. Just roll down the windows when needed The worst one was a flight I had from chicago to DC a few months ago ... there was this bald guy reading the bible and I could swear every verse he would say a haleluja and let one rip. That has definitely been the worst flight I have ever been on (a second close one was the one I had the seat 2 rows away from the bathroom and some old lady went in about 1/2 way into the flight (detroit to LA). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Em Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 I also subscribe to the belief that a relationship without compromise will not last long. It's all about give and take. If each person lived their life according to their wants, needs, cares..then a true "coming together" of hearts and minds would not occur. Of course, some people are not meant to marry. They would not survive wihin the confines of that prison very long. For the rest of us, there is great joy and comfort in realizing that the other person you have devoted so much of yourself to does not mind "submitting" to your way of things once in a while. Asumen, herrtova, zorrov chi..... I wonder how many men agreed with Anonymous at age 25 but changed their minds at 30, 35, 40?!?!?!? I know a few who did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Here is my point of view, and again from an evolutionary vision. I disagree with mouse, when either of the two stop compromising this means the flame is not burning anymore. Love is not the consequences of compromise, but compromise is the consequences of love. With old couple, some of the compromises are not compromise anymore, they become usual automatism after long time restriction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Here is my point of view, and again from an evolutionary vision. I disagree with mouse, when either of the two stop compromising this means the flame is not burning anymore. Love is not the consequences of compromise, but compromise is the consequences of love. With old couple, some of the compromises are not compromise anymore, they become usual automatism after long time restriction. I tottally agree with this statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted August 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 Nobody's "forcing" anything. If someone (man or woman) desires to partake in a particular relationship, he/she chooses to adapt to the said relationship. If you don't want to "change" in some manner, you are always free to terminate the relationship. Besides, who's to say the woman is not compromising when she "allows" her man to behave in a manner she doesn't appreciate? Compromise goes both ways, and amongst consenting adults, I see nothing particularly wrong with it. That's one way of defining compromise. It's such a definition that no matter what we do, we are invariably compromising even when we least imagine. However, I'm not concerned with that definition, or perspective. I understand reasonably well what you are saying and where you are coming from. I understand that when one really likes or loves someone, one will be tempted to do whatever it takes to satisfy thy lovers heart. When you say "chooses" to adapt to the said relationship, what do you mean? Do you mean now that one is forced to watch romantic comedies, not because one likes to, but because their partner likes to? And because their partner is watching, out of "respect" and "to spend time together", you will sit there wasting two hours of your life watching something you do not enjoy simply to satisfy your partner? And a woman never allows a man to behave in any way. A man's choice of behavior is not dependent on a woman's allowance, nor vice versa. Behavior comes from within and how people act is a reflection of who they are and how they think. If she does not like it, she can pack her bags and leave. That's my point. People get into relationships and try to change each other. Why? We don't demand such silly things in friendship and put ridiculous expectations on friends to conform to our little whims and fancies, yet why do we demand the same in relationships and love? This makes no god damned sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted August 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 I do not consider myself a relationship expert at all, but let me notice, most of the people who discuss this topic are not married or have kids... People DO change in time... Anonimouse, are you the same person with the same habbits that you were lets say 10 years ago? I am positive you are not...Everything around us has great effect on the personality we develop, things that seem impossible to do when we're 18 become a regular chore at 25...The point i am trying to make is that after we have kids and family, some of the wishes and desires become secondary (that includes farting,.. etc, and that makes us change our personality (or our lifestyle maybe)... I see your point..There ARE women that act "my way or No way"...But most women try to do what is better for their family, if that includes asking their husband to come home earlier that 3 in a morning, i would not call it "inner drive to change a man" ... I might be wrong...Who knows... This is a good post, however, it does not relate to what I am saying. Our change overtime as individuals has about as much to do with relationships and compromise as Popeye has to do with Turkish and Israeli denial of the Armenian genocide. Nor am I denying that kids change the relationship, period. In fact, almost everyone I talk to says that after children, their relations change, especially sexually. However, this to me would indicate a certain asterisk in life. What you do for your kids, whose lives depend on you since you brought them into this world, would be a bit of different compromise, than your cliche husband/wife yells and demands. And please don't misunderstand my position. I know full well that most relationships overtime do have arguments and many of them petty that revolve around stupid things. For example, Husband Bob does not like the fact that his wife does not stay home all the time to cook and clean. She does as much as she can, but she prefers the career as well. Husband Bob should not be angry at Wife Betty for who she is. Husband Bob should have known this from the beginning and realized what he is getting himself into and if he didn't like that he should have avoided Wife Betty. After 4 years of marriage, it would be stupid, childish, selfish and uncalled for for Husband Bob to sit there, complain to his wife about her lifestyle that you cannot have a career and a family at the same time, and make arguments over this. At this point, he shouldn't try to change her, so much as accept her for who she is. Otherwise, why be with that person at all? He should just get a divorce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 (edited) I can't believe I'm reading this. First Nairi, now you? This has nothing to do with shame, but everything to do with respecting another person next to you, be it your long-time lover or a new acquaintance. Why do we have to let go of ourselves? Why not try to be the best we can be in the presence of those we love? Nairi and Edward, do you think it's ok to belch and fart in front of your parents and kids as well? Surely, you reason that you feel very comfortable and close to them as well? I totally agree with you anoushik jan. I guess you are a classy lady like I really thought you are and because you are!!! It sure sounds like it my dear. By going away to let go of yourself in my books, above all you respect yourself. That's the way I am brought up by my family and that is also the way I am. On the other hand my object of affection may choose to let go of himself in front of me and I will not mind or object; but personally, I choose to go a little away myself. Edited August 15, 2007 by Anahid Takouhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 From this, I think we could accuratly conclude that you are not someone who could injoy a long relationship. Compromise does not exist only in love relationship but every other form of relation with others. You live in a society, you abide by the rules and compromise by accepting to lose a part of your liberty. In a love relationship you accept to give up a part of your liberty to acquire something which you injoy more than the liberty you have lost. The moment you injoy more that liberty you don't have anymore then keeping that relationship is a pretention you may just as well leave that person. If you don't compromise, the other has to compromise double, you'll be an abuser. You seem to ignore that maintaining any sort of relation with others has a price. That's one way of defining compromise. It's such a definition that no matter what we do, we are invariably compromising even when we least imagine. However, I'm not concerned with that definition, or perspective. I understand reasonably well what you are saying and where you are coming from. I understand that when one really likes or loves someone, one will be tempted to do whatever it takes to satisfy thy lovers heart. When you say "chooses" to adapt to the said relationship, what do you mean? Do you mean now that one is forced to watch romantic comedies, not because one likes to, but because their partner likes to? And because their partner is watching, out of "respect" and "to spend time together", you will sit there wasting two hours of your life watching something you do not enjoy simply to satisfy your partner? And a woman never allows a man to behave in any way. A man's choice of behavior is not dependent on a woman's allowance, nor vice versa. Behavior comes from within and how people act is a reflection of who they are and how they think. If she does not like it, she can pack her bags and leave. That's my point. People get into relationships and try to change each other. Why? We don't demand such silly things in friendship and put ridiculous expectations on friends to conform to our little whims and fancies, yet why do we demand the same in relationships and love? This makes no god damned sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted August 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 (edited) From this, I think we could accuratly conclude that you are not someone who could injoy a long relationship. Compromise does not exist only in love relationship but every other form of relation with others. You live in a society, you abide by the rules and compromise by accepting to lose a part of your liberty. In a love relationship you accept to give up a part of your liberty to acquire something which you injoy more than the liberty you have lost. The moment you injoy more that liberty you don't have anymore then keeping that relationship is a pretention you may just as well leave that person. If you don't compromise, the other has to compromise double, you'll be an abuser. You seem to ignore that maintaining any sort of relation with others has a price. I've already addressed the idea of "price" or better known as what Sip called trade-offs. That has nothing to do with compromise. You seem to confuse the two and keep appealing to your ignorance of what you believe ought to be the case. Living in society and accepting the laws and dictates of the State is not the same as compromising. You have no choice in accepting government fiat, whereas you do have choice and control over who you are in a relationship with. So this analogy automatically fails on relevance as an association fallacy. And this is not about giving up a part of your liberty when you are in a relationship. This is a red herring. I never even raised this issue. Do you see me supporting the idea that when one is in a relationship that one can just go and hang out with any chick, kiss any girl? The freedoms you give up for fidelity in a relationship come with the territory. Do you see this thread title? Does it say anything about freedom and fidelity? Sadly, from your post I gather you will be the "palas" in any relationship. Edited August 15, 2007 by Anonymouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 the fact of the matter remains that there are women (a whole lot of them) who in their twisted minds see men as dolls... they think they can take men, and shape them to be NOT what men actually are, but what they want them to be... and large precentage of them actually succeed... but then if the man is such "anvoghnashar" than that's what he deserves anyways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 Living in society and accepting the laws and dictates of the State is not the same as compromising. You have no choice in accepting government fiat, whereas you do have choice and control over who you are in a relationship with. So this analogy automatically fails on relevance as an association fallacy. I will just answer this part, the rest doesn't even worth answering to (no content). This is nonesense, it is actually the same thing. You have the choice of packing your bags and move somewhere in the North to live in your own. You live in a society much like someone live with another in a relationship. You have the choice to not compromise in either case. You are free to brake the law and not compromise, then you will pay the consequences, in a relationship the consequence might just as well be losing that relationship. It's as simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 It's interesting that the females thought this way. However, I never said anything about finding anyone with the exact same values or someone who is in tune with you on everything. Are you folks reading the same thread? It's about finding someone who will accept you for you are and not make you compromise and try to change you (both your core values of who you are, as well as little shit like what kind of movies you want to watch, because as anyone in relationships know, arguments revolve around the little things, habits, choices, etc.). It has nothing to do with finding someone who has the same and identical values as you. Anon jan; when finding a woman that you wish to spend time with and especially eventually to marry; you must make sure that your core values are very close to being identical. This is truly important. Frankly speaking from my own perspective; when I went to a date I concentrated on the guy that I'm with and not just the movie I'll be going. Personally I am a flexible person to be with. But when it comes to the little things; I believe that you can compromise at least every now and then. I am not saying that you have to count how many times you gave in. But I think that if a couple truly love each other then you'll give in to some of the things that mean so much to her and but she should do the same to you. For instance, when you want to go to a theatre so much more than a movie she wants; than it's her call to give in to you. That in my books, is love. Consider this; even with your friends. Do they always go the places that only you want? Or you both give in at different times. You both must give in; otherwise you won't stay friends, right? If you don't care for the other human being; then you'll end up without a friend. So you must and you do care. However, it is everything about how women have this innate drive and nature to try to 'change a man'. It's sort of hardwired in their 'makeover' gene, like when they get a room, they want to decorate and do a makeover. They try the same thing with their men. I don't know what type of women you're meeting Arman jan; but this musn't be. If any woman tries to change a man, she will not have that man for long. Now I have seen some women do it very subtly and they succeed sometimes; but after a while when they start getting cocky then they lose. They think they can get away with everything but usually they cannot. I don't think any woman or any man should get into a relationship with the mindset of trying to change their lover/spouse. They should get into a relationship with the mindset of a newly found love and putting out their heart rather than money, controlling or owning. And from what I read here by you; you have a macho type characther and you probably are one. So my dear cyber friend don't settle for anything less. Just settle for real love and sweetness!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 And if this stance is going to curse me to a life of solitude, then so be it. As one wise man has said, solitude is the price of greatness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 It is even more funny that you used "linum" instead of "g@lla gor". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted August 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 (edited) I will just answer this part, the rest doesn't even worth answering to (no content). This is nonesense, it is actually the same thing. You have the choice of packing your bags and move somewhere in the North to live in your own. You live in a society much like someone live with another in a relationship. You have the choice to not compromise in either case. You are free to brake the law and not compromise, then you will pay the consequences, in a relationship the consequence might just as well be losing that relationship. It's as simple as that. Ever heard of the social contract? Now, realize that the social contract is actually a myth. People are never asked what the laws and institutions should be. They are decided in advance, exclusively by powerful people. Government is an organized monopoly of violence in a given territory and it is the same wherever you go. Thus you have no choice in the matter of paying taxes. Taxation is by default part of the government make up. So stop making stupid analogies. Government laws are based on coercion, being in a relationship is a voluntary matter. Stop being obtuse and making stupid analogies. Edited August 15, 2007 by Anonymouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 Ever heard of the social contract? Now, realize that the social contract is actually a myth. People are never asked what the laws and institutions should be. They are decided in advance, exclusively by powerful people. Government is an organized monopoly of violence in a given territory and it is the same wherever you go. Thus you have no choice in the matter of paying taxes. Taxation is by default part of the government make up. So stop making stupid analogies. Government laws are based on coercion, being in a relationship is a voluntary matter. Stop being obtuse and making stupid analogies. I have no interest in debating with you so I'll rest my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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