Dave Posted March 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 (edited) did you see how the cops were talking about them? or how the news reporters were talking about them? notice how all these peoples lives were affected just by this "couple of gunshots"? Those cops didn't even know what an Armenian is, what the Armenian cause is! So it doesn't matter how they talk about us. Besides, there was terrorism practically everywhere. Oh, and those few gunshots did accomplish a lot. Back when the Soviet Union seemed invincible (like today's United States), "Armenia" was merely considered an ancient kingdom. It didn't even exist, kind of like the Basques. Today you may see info about the Armenian genocide every few months on the TV or in the newspapers, but back then, it was simply unimaginable. They wanted to present it to the world and to Turkey for the very first time, and there was no other way. Funny thing is that Canada ceded to the "terrorists"' demands by accepting the Armenian genocide (thus furthering the Armenian cause). Now that we have our own independent country, people do listen to us without having to take extreme measures. Edited March 31, 2007 by Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irlandahay Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Those cops didn't even know what an Armenian is, what the Armenian cause is! So it doesn't matter how they talk about us. Besides, there was terrorism practically everywhere. Oh, and those few gunshots did accomplish a lot. Back when the Soviet Union seemed invincible (like today's United States), "Armenia" was merely considered an ancient kingdom. It didn't even exist, kind of like the Basques. Today you may see info about the Armenian genocide every few months on the TV or in the newspapers, but back then, it was simply unimaginable. They wanted to present it to the world and to Turkey for the very first time, and there was no other way. Funny thing is that Canada ceded to the "terrorists"' demands by accepting the Armenian genocide (thus furthering the Armenian cause). Now that we have our own independent country, people do listen to us without having to take extreme measures. ok, then what? the cops didnt know, so they just arrested a bunch of young men who shot up an embassy. they have nothing to do with this, but they get this image, where we are terrorists and the turks come out as victims. its just not right and those gunshots accomplished nothing. armenia was blocked off simply because of the USSR. In soviet russia, u had no identity, nothing that seperated you from the masses. but after the fall of the iron curtain, we were able to amke ourselves heard. not cuz of terrorism but simply because times have changed. and the canadian government recognised the genocide in 2006, some 20 years after the attack. dave, it isnt right to think that their actions are justifiable in any way. these acts should be condemned and we should show that we are the bigger people here, that we can get our thoughts through without shooting at a limo and instead of hitting our target, hitting his 9 year old daughter who maybe has never even heard of genocide... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 The cops don't matter. They're not politicians or historians or Armenians. but after the fall of the iron curtain, we were able to amke ourselves heard. not cuz of terrorism but simply because times have changed. Well exactly. Prior to that, it was impossible. and the canadian government recognised the genocide in 2006, some 20 years after the attack. So? If 20 years is enough to forget about the attacks in the embassy, why isn't it enough for the guys to be released? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Representatives of denial of a historic fact were legitimate targets back then. Everyone is confusing then and now. If people were more supportive of some stuff and less critical, we wouldn't be so "divided". The tactics were the thing to do back then. 9/11 has eliminated that kind of tactic now. You are forgetting the emotions, the atmosphere, everything these men went through. Lebanon was the hub more multiple guerrilla factions, from the Japs, to the PLO. They adopted the tactic. These men all still had grandad's or direct parents that had survived the genocide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skhara Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 What was the plan of the attack? Was to to get out on the airwaves and mention the Armenian Genocide? Personally I don't have a problem with elimination of Turkish diplomats. Also, I'd say its good to have courage, but one needs to be smart too. Did these guys plan to go to jail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 What was the plan of the attack? Was to to get out on the airwaves and mention the Armenian Genocide? Personally I don't have a problem with elimination of Turkish diplomats. Also, I'd say its good to have courage, but one needs to be smart too. Did these guys plan to go to jail? I think the plan was to hold up the embassy and list the demands from in there and use the diplomat and the rest as bargaining chips. Ultimately, anyone committing such an act is "ready to go to jail" IMO. They're still there but will be able to appeal for parole soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 again mate there is a significant difference between operation Nemesis and ASALA. for one thing, nemesis was nicknamed "les vengeurs" and ASALA was nicknamed "ass-ala" another is nemesis members were acquitted relatively often (in the rare occasions they were caught) and ASALA was caught quite often and was rarely acquitted Yes, as there is a difference between asymmetric warfare and terrorism. Target representatives of a state: asymmetric warfare. Target civilians: terrorism. Either way, it's not worth arguing over nothing. The short-lived terrorist element of ASALA died very quickly; Hagopig was assassinated by his own men only 5 years after Orly, and already Melkonian had switched tactics way before that and went on the ground to defend the homeland in Artsakh. We all know what the right tactics are. Knowing the right tactics come through experience. And our people, just like all other people went through that experience, of trying different tactics: The Americans did it (it was called the "Boston Tea Party"), the Israelis did it (read about Menachem Begin), etc., etc. Important thing is Armenians (not even a small group) haven't been in that business since the early 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Error 404 Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 ur kidding! What's up Irlandahay? What's your point man why are being sarcastic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurderer Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 do you follow way of your ancestors guys? is this their way too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Those cops didn't even know what an Armenian is, what the Armenian cause is! So it doesn't matter how they talk about us. Besides, there was terrorism practically everywhere. So their fist and only exposure to "Armenians" is a bunch of terrorists? Is that a good way to portray Armenia to the world? Sorry but in the court of public opinion, Armenians had a very low standing in those years.... You may be too young to remember, but I do. And Armenian Canadians were downright ashamed - how could you not be, when the only association some Canadians had with Armenians was the word "Terrorist" ? ....They wanted to present it to the world and to Turkey for the very first time, and there was no other way. There is always another way. I don't think Armenians have (or had at that time) reached a level of desparation necessary to commit the types of actions the group in question resorted to. It's like they had "Nothing to lose", when in fact, they had plenty to lose and sadly, they did lose. Funny thing is that Canada ceded to the "terrorists"' demands by accepting the Armenian genocide (thus furthering the Armenian cause). This statement is outrageous! How could you even think that the Canadian Parliament ceded to terrorists demands?? Where are the terrorists? What were they demanding? Would anyone "cede" to demands made a quarter of a century ago?? Your are complete disregarding the tireless efforts of countless Armenians who volunteer their time to achieve genocide recognition. You discount them all - whether it's through Hye Tad, student associations, political lobby groups, the ANCC etc., not to mention those who research genocide issues, write articles and raise the profile of forgotten genocide. Your statement above implies that these efforts have been worthless, while a "few gunshots" coerced the Canadian gov't to acknowledge the genocide. My oh my.... Dave, I'm sorry but you're WAY off-base on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 My advice is give this thread a rest and move on if anyone is listening. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skhara Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 I think the plan was to hold up the embassy and list the demands from in there and use the diplomat and the rest as bargaining chips. Ultimately, anyone committing such an act is "ready to go to jail" IMO. They're still there but will be able to appeal for parole soon. Seems like an ill-conceived plan. Obviously the turkic state would not accept the demands. The demands from their perspective greatly outweigh the value on not just one diplomat, but probably all their state reps put together. Although continuous an prolonged targetted assasinations of state reps should be fine. In fact, by the example of Israel and the US, this is the 'in-thing'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irlandahay Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 What's up Irlandahay? What's your point man why are being sarcastic? I wasnt being sarcastic! her name is written in armenian...its not every turk who can do that... if she is a turk...i guess im a little bit surprised thats all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 My advice is give this thread a rest and move on if anyone is listening. Thank you. Good advice, wise Yervant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 (edited) There is always another way. I don't think Armenians have (or had at that time) reached a level of desparation necessary to commit the types of actions the group in question resorted to. It's like they had "Nothing to lose", when in fact, they had plenty to lose and sadly, they did lose. Actually, I view it as the opposite, we had lost just about everything and it had been decades and none of our problems had even come close to be solved. Family, 1.5 million compatriots, and as equally important...a homeland, hayastan koyoutioun cher ener and by the looks of it from the cold war back then, it wasn't gonna be too soon where something called Armenia would re-appear, the USSR was "shining bright" back then. Especially after Nuremberg, when the Nazis got what was coming to them, and while the Young Turks got away w/ it, it can totally seem like they had lost everything already. Emotions were running high, especially after the ground-shaking 1965 Yerevan Protests against the genocide which had culminated to a memorial in the USSR for the victims. Edited March 31, 2007 by AK-47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Ի՞նչ է խնդիրը: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Ի՞նչ է խնդիրը: Խնդիրն է որ մարդիկ կան որ կ՛ըսեն terrorism է 1975-1985 ահաբեկումները Թուրքական թիրախներուն վրայ: Diplomat սպաննելը այն ատեն ըստ ինծի terrorism չէ քանի որ վիճակը աշխարհին մէջ ուրիշ էր եւ նաեւ անոնք որոնք ըրին այս ահաբեկումները, ուղիղօրէն ունէին Ցեղասպանութենէն ազատող ընտանիքի անդամներ, եւ կը կրուէին որպէսզի Հայ ազքը Ազատ , անկախ ու միացեալ Հայաստան մը ունենայ,, Հայաստան մը որ գոյութիւն չեր ըներ այն ատեն: Վերերը գրեր եմ իմ կարծիքներս: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 (edited) So their fist and only exposure to "Armenians" is a bunch of terrorists? Is that a good way to portray Armenia to the world? Sorry but in the court of public opinion, Armenians had a very low standing in those years.... You may be too young to remember, but I do. You're still forgetting that back then, terrorism wasn't as vilified as it is today, after 9/11. And Armenian Canadians were downright ashamed - how could you not be, when the only association some Canadians had with Armenians was the word "Terrorist" ? Ashamed? Well, you're probably talking about your side of the "fence". The ARF now has songs about the "Lisbon 5", etc. How could you even think that the Canadian Parliament ceded to terrorists demands?? Where are the terrorists? What were they demanding? Would anyone "cede" to demands made a quarter of a century ago?? Your are complete disregarding the tireless efforts of countless Armenians who volunteer their time to achieve genocide recognition. You discount them all - whether it's through Hye Tad, student associations, political lobby groups, the ANCC etc., not to mention those who research genocide issues, write articles and raise the profile of forgotten genocide. Your statement above implies that these efforts have been worthless, while a "few gunshots" coerced the Canadian gov't to acknowledge the genocide. My oh my.... Dave, I'm sorry but you're WAY off-base on this one. Apparently, many publications about the Armenian cause (including the Armenian genocide) appeared during those years. For example, Yves Ternon, who used to write about the Jewish Holocaust, "switched" to the Armenian genocide. How else did the foreign historians get interested? http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yves_Ternon Without the leverage that the genocide gained after the 1975-1985 events, it would have been practically impossible to make countries recognize the Armenian genocide. Edited March 31, 2007 by Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 (edited) Խնդիրն է որ մարդիկ կան որ կ՛ըսեն terrorism է 1975-1985 ահաբեկումները Թուրքական թիրախներուն վրայ: Diplomat սպաննելը այն ատեն ըստ ինծի terrorism չէ քանի որ վիճակը աշխարհին մէջ ուրիշ էր եւ նաեւ անոնք որոնք ըրին այս ահաբեկումները, ուղիղօրէն ունէին Ցեղասպանութենէն ազատող ընտանիքի անդամներ, եւ կը կրուէին որպէսզի Հայ ազքը Ազատ , անկախ ու միացեալ Հայաստան մը ունենայ,, Հայաստան մը որ գոյութիւն չեր ըներ այն ատեն: Վերերը գրեր եմ իմ կարծիքներս: Ուզածնին թող ըսեն: Ֆետայիները կ'ընեն այն ինչ որ պէտք է: Ֆետային պէտք չ'ունի մէկու մը հաշիւ տալու: Ան կ'ընէ այն ինչ որ ճիշդ կը տեսնայ ներկայ կացութեան: (Ասոր գիտե՞ս ինչ կ'ըսեն անգլերէն - initiative.) Այն ատէն՝ այն ատէնուայ տեղեկութեամբ գործեցին ինչպէս որ ճիշդ տեսան եւ հայութիւնը միայն հիյանալով մօտեցաւ այդ անձնուէր եւ տիպար հայերուն... Եւ Արցախի ազատամարտիկները այդ տղոց նկարներով եւ կորովով ներշնչուած կ'իչնային պատերազմի դաշտը: Ինչ որ ալ եղաւ՝ մեր ֆետայիները ճշդեցին իրենց մօտեցումը: Եւ ներկայի ֆետայիները ոչթէ միայն կը պայքարին հայոց հողերը պաշտպանելու այլ նայեւ հայկական տնտեսութիւնը («էքօնօմին») ստեղծեն Հայաստանի մէջ, «integrate» ընելով անոր մնացած աշխարհին: Անձնասպանական եւ մարդասպանական հարցակումներու օրերէն շատո՜նց հեռացած ենք եւ գիտենք այլեւս թէ ինչ տեսակի կռիւներ պէտք է կռուինք: _____________________________________ «Ուզո՞ւմ ես գուշակել, տեսնել մի ժողովուրդի ապագան՝ նայի՛ր նրա երիտասարդութեան» գրեց Գարեգին Նժդեհ («Հայ Երիտասարդութեան՝ Երկու Խօսք», 1924) Edited March 31, 2007 by Shahan Araradian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Մի քանի հազար մնացեր էին Անդոկի գագաթին: Եկան երեխաները խաշեցին կաթսաներուն մէջ եւ ծնողներուն կերցուցին անոնց միսը: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 It is so easy for us Monday morning quarterbacks, after this many decades to sit back in our cushy easy chairs and pass judgment. Those things happened a couple of decades after that decisive year 1965 when, all of a sudden the nation woke up after years of stupor, which until then April 24 was designated “Feast of Martyrs/Nahatakats Ton" when Armenians, in their own niches of Hnchak, Dashnak, Ramkavar, Apostolic, Catholic and Proetestant would come together and have a festival of mourning and weeping. When most of these kids who had grown up going to bed not with lullabies like “Qoun eghir balas” but eyewitness stories of atrocities and massacres. And, until such time they were lulled into believing that their lot was one of “mourning and weeping”, that is, until 1965 , at the 50th anniversary , the entire nation, ,Hnchak, Dashnak, Ramkavar, Apostolic, Catholic and Protestant came together and said “NEVER AGAIN”!!! That is when these kids decided to not go to bed with those bed time stories of death and devastations and, in the absence of action by their “story tellers” decided to take the law in their hands, so to speak. During those heady days, when I was heavily involved in national affairs, we received a thick package of reprints from the WSJ, NYT and other major media talking about the so called “Armenian Terrorism“. The idea of the packet was for us to study the current affairs, comment and possibly recommend new ideas. The packet was distributed to the members and advised to read and form opinions. When we came back, the atmosphere was total silence except for a couple of comments that “these kids should be hanged at the nearest telephone pole”. Until, after a long silence I, your perennial idiot had to peep out with: ; Who are these kids? Whom do they represent? Who is backing them? The Dashnaks, the Hnchaks, the Ramkavars, The Diocese, the Prelacy? What er they trying to say that we as a nation have failed ? Of course those were the days before the AAA and ANCA finally took over and tried, still trying to say that the “pen is mightier than the sword”. Speaking of which, the mighty pen of the AAA and ANCA has not yet proved to be mightier than the “sword”, make the noise that those kids wielded. As it seems, those savages from the Central Asian steppes still don’t know how to read the “pen” , who only know the language of the “sword”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irlandahay Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 especially after the ground-shaking 1965 Yerevan Protests against the genocide which had culminated to a memorial in the USSR for the victims. there was a 1965 protest in yerevan? I thought in the soviet union ur not aloud to protest? can u send me more info on it, or open a thread about it please, id like to know more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 there was a 1965 protest in yerevan? I thought in the soviet union ur not aloud to protest? can u send me more info on it, or open a thread about it please, id like to know more Yeah that's why it was ground shaking. It was the first time ever in the USSR that such nationalistic protests were held. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1965_Yerevan_Demonstrations http://www.caucaz.com/home_eng/breve_contenu.php?id=149 http://www.ourararat.com/eng/e_24Arm.htm Here are some helpful links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 it was wan Zurabyan was in office - and a year after that USSR has approved the construction of the Tsitsernakaberds Memorial monument "Construction on the monument began in 1966 and was completed in 1968. The dedication date was April 24, 1968. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Where did the thread about the 1985 attack go??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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