1985 Attack In Ottawa

[Shahan Araradian]

actually, it wasn't ASALA that did the attack..

 

anyways

i do not question their motives, but i do their tactics...

i don't see how storming an embassy will grant them recognition...it would only do the opposite, and as a result, it would harm the entire armenian cause.

Yes and that's *exactly* why ASALA disbanded. Indeed, in Monte's later writings, he categorically condemns terrorism. Here are two quotes:

 

"While many of us feel a strong emotional attachment to our homeland, we should not allow emotions to deter us from speaking of things the way they really are. It should be remembered that this very surrender to emotion has led to insane and counterproductive atrocities on the scale of the Ankara and Istanbul suicide assaults, as well as the Orly bombing and the Lisbon disaster. By surrendering to emotions we enable the A.R.F. and slogans like "Hagop Hagopian" to lead thousands of well-intentioned patriots down a path which does not lead to Armenia, and to sacrifice the lives of young fighters in campaigns which directly contradict the interests of the Armenian people. If we are to achieve even the minimum requirements for Armenian national self-determination, we must approach problems in a serious and sober manner."

—The Right to Struggle, p.60

 

"In spite of ASALA and Armenian Revolutionary Federation rhetoric, armed propaganda is not a tactic which can "force" foreign powers to support our political demands; nor does it deal "lethal blows" to the Turkish regime."

—The Right to Struggle, p.64

 

Indeed, a former leader of ASALA categorically spoke against the very tactics he used himself. And why not? It's not hypocrisy. Tactics evolve, but the struggle, the original goal continues: the self-determination of the Armenian people on their historic homeland.

 

(And any people are entitled to self-determination on their historic homeland; not only Armenians. But history has shown that the homeland is maintained through continued vigilance, especially when living among barbarian neighbors.)

[zurderer]

Don't forget that the embassy's land is technically Turkish land; that security guard was in reality playing the role of a Turkish soldier who's defending it. That's what I think, at least...

 

so are we war with armenians? Killing or attacking a soldier(even some civilians like security guards or police.) acceptable at war, not at peace..

 

 

 

[Stormig]

Stormig, your comment has nothing to do with what we are talking here. My point is that if you get the benefits of serving or be enrolled in institution that is not very reputable, you have to be prepared to bare the consequences of your choice. Sure, I would love to have a diplomat salary and privileges, but would a moral person do this, knowing damn well that he is serving the wrong government?

Wrong government? So perhaps instead they should have served the Republic of Armenia - or better yet, the USSR. And it takes a postman to be serving the government, why go into the inferiority complex of mentioning high salaries and status? What kind of BS logic is that? Even the Israeli government isn't a "wrong" government. But where Armenians and Turkish government employees are concerned, the knee jerks leave the wrath of the Biblical strain looking like bedtime rhymes.

[Zartonk]

"While many of us feel a strong emotional attachment to our homeland, we should not allow emotions to deter us from speaking of things the way they really are. It should be remembered that this very surrender to emotion has led to insane and counterproductive atrocities on the scale of the Ankara and Istanbul suicide assaults, as well as the Orly bombing and the Lisbon disaster. By surrendering to emotions we enable the A.R.F. and slogans like "Hagop Hagopian" to lead thousands of well-intentioned patriots down a path which does not lead to Armenia, and to sacrifice the lives of young fighters in campaigns which directly contradict the interests of the Armenian people. If we are to achieve even the minimum requirements for Armenian national self-determination, we must approach problems in a serious and sober manner."

 

That's a different take, isn't it...?

[gamavor]

Wrong government? So perhaps instead they should have served the Republic of Armenia - or better yet, the USSR. And it takes a postman to be serving the government, why go into the inferiority complex of mentioning high salaries and status? What kind of BS logic is that? Even the Israeli government isn't a "wrong" government. But where Armenians and Turkish government employees are concerned, the knee jerks leave the wrath of the Biblical strain looking like bedtime rhymes.

 

Again, you are missing the point. I haven't said that serving USSR or in particular the Republic of Armenia during soviet times was something worthy - morally or otherwise. I simply stated that the government of Turkey is fascist and serving a government like this is not noble enterprise. The only motivation reasonable people might have in rendering their services to such government could be money or status. If there are other motivational factors such as hoping to bring about some kind of change or honestly being complicit with the said policies are different issues.

[Stormig]

It was not their fault they killed the security guard, he shot back and they had to answer. By the time the gunfire between the security guard was over, the ambassador and etc had heard of what was going on and the ambassador jumped out of the embassy, breaking alot of bones. It takes courage and dedication to even take part of such an attack. They are fedayees. Their tactics are questionable but like it or not, it did help in the getting attention of the genocide. Let's not forget that til about 1965, the world has forgotten. And terrorism wasn't as heavily criticized back then as today (after 9/11 mumbo jumbo). Today it is the ultimate "sin" to do. Such tactics would not work today. Today, it is diplomacy that will get us somewhere.

I am at a loss for words.

[Stormig]

Again, you are missing the point. I haven't said that serving USSR or in particular the Republic of Armenia during soviet times was something worthy - morally or otherwise. I simply stated that the government of Turkey is fascist and serving a government like this is not noble enterprise. The only motivation reasonable people might have in rendering their services to such government could be money or status. If there are other motivational factors such as hoping to bring about some kind of change or honestly being complicit with the said policies are different issues.

Like I said, serving EVEN the Israeli government is not "wrong" by any stretch of warped-up imagination. No-one is in a position to make such a judgement and act upon it. If there is a "wrong" out there, well, there is the rule of the law to resort to.

[gamavor]

Stormig, this is my last response to you with the hope that you will GRASP the delicate lining. Of course there is rule of law. The law should be the source of solving the problems that exist among reasonable people. In no way I condone the actions of the Armenian terrorists. All I said is that public officials affiliated with fascist governments are not innocent, - hence I'm not crying for killed Turkish ambassadors, admitting that they were victimized by terrorists.

 

I do not expect court verdict against the Turkish government, because the rule of law is product of our perceived sense of justice which often has nothing to do with justice but with political expediency.

 

 

 

[MosJan]

Kudos to the Armenian SOB who demonstrated that to the world. My perfect understanding of a hero. It should be his victim behind bars.

 

whats w/ the twisting of the words and getting Cocky

nation that your part of considers talat enver jemal a hero - are they ?? , and lets not forget the SOB that just killed Hrant

 

get a grip on your self

[Stormig]

Stormig, this is my last response to you with the hope that you will GRASP the delicate lining. Of course there is rule of law. The law should be the source of solving the problems that exist among reasonable people. In no way I condone the actions of the Armenian terrorists. All I said is that public officials affiliated with fascist governments are not innocent, - hence I'm not crying for killed Turkish ambassadors, admitting that they were victimized by terrorists.

 

I do not expect court verdict against the Turkish government, because the rule of law is product of our perceived sense of justice which often has nothing to do with justice but with political expediency.

Still BS. Since when is anyone asking for tears? Did I cry for Ariel Sharon? No. Would I condone his assassination? No. What is his diplomat guilty of? Nothing. Big whoop.

[gamavor]

Did I cry for Ariel Sharon?

 

You should! They are your best buddies!

[Boghos]

You should! They are your best buddies!

 

He got you there, Stormig.

[Stormig]

You should! They are your best buddies!

Oh how that had escaped me. Yeah, I better get that grip.

[gamavor]

I changed my mind. Armenian "terrorist" are not terrorists. They are freedom fighters, just like Marcus Van Der Lubbe (ASALA) and the numerous hajduks durring the Ottoman rule (in the case of Armenian Justice Commandos).

 

 

[Stormig]

I changed my mind. Armenian "terrorist" are not terrorists. They are freedom fighters, just like Marcus Van Der Lubbe (ASALA) and the numerous hajduks durring the Ottoman rule (in the case of Armenian Justice Commandos).

Yes, of course. You can't force yourself to fake it too long and act against yourself. Best be steadminded at all times.

[Error 404]

Stormig calm down. Dude you are really stormy!

 

I like stormy women in tet a tete.

[Error 404]

Stormig,

 

are you having a sleepless night or something? Well it happens to me too. Then I try to read something like the history or about the historical events in 1915. Because I still can't find answers why it was such a cruel year.

 

Just keep yourself busy...

[gamavor]

Terrorism is in the eye of beholder.

[Shahan Araradian]

Terrorism is in the eye of beholder.

It's not terrorism so long as you are targeting representatives of the state. That is warfare - guerrilla or conventional.

 

Did ASALA do terrorism? At some point, they started to target civilians. So partly yes. And that is one of their reasons for their disbanding.

 

JCAG/ARA? They never targeted non-representatives of the Turkish state. That is asymmetric warfare.

 

None of these groups are active in any way shape or form today. Their leaders have shifted tactics and have publicly written about their shift in tactics.

 

It is what it is. There are no excuses, only explanations.

 

Either way, a handful of terrorist events by a handful of people does not compare in scale to the calamity of the state-sponsored annihilation of 1.5 million Armenians by the Turkish nation. So don't come here barking about Armenian terrorists -- they don't represent the Armenian nation. (Yanikian, who started it all, was an aging survivor of the genocide in his 70s who experienced the massacres first hand and was acting alone, as an individual.)

 

A handful of people don't have the consent of an entire people; a terrorist nation, though, does have the consent of the entire people -- indeed, during the genocide, Turks bludgeoned to death their local Armenian population, just showing how they felt about their Armenian neighbors.

 

As a Turk, Stormig, you shouldn't be the least bit surprised by the actions of Yanikian or his followers. Vengeance follows by the survivors of an atrocity who felt the pain on their bone. That's why Talaat wanted to kill all boys older than a certain age, so the ones surviving won't remember the pain. (But Tehlirian would survive the blow to his head and reawaken from unconsciousness among the lifeless corpses of his brother and the rest of his family, only to exact revenge... Tehlirian should have died that bloody day in Erzerum along with the rest of the Armenians who refused to convert to Islam. There should have been no Tehlirian to remember the pain. But the survivor always exacts vengeance when the pain is too much to forget; when the pain has consumed him, when exacting revenge has become his very life, his sole purpose that would calm his spirit, to avenge the death of his loved ones who were taken away from him...)

 

BUT I STILL HAVE TO RECEIVE AN EXPLANATION FROM YOU AND YOUR GRANDPARENTS (AND YOUR COUNTRY) ON WHY YOU KILLED 1.5 MILLION OF MY PEOPLE. WHY ON EARTH? Your explanations so far aren't cutting it.

 

Armenians were traitors? My grandfather's father and two older brothers ALL were drafted into the Ottoman Army, just as all other Armenians in the Ottoman Empire. They weren't traitors and they never were heard from again.

Edited March 30, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Armenak]

Stormig is Turkish?

[Error 404]

Amazing Armenak isn't it?

 

She is turkish but she is not denying Armenian Genocide and sometimes critisizes Turkey and turkish government (well she critisizes us Armenians alot too:)). Unlike zurderer(who is the troll of this forum) she is much more intelligent and advanced.

 

I think we should treat her with respect to her intelect and personality. Her nationality plays no role. After all many turks saved Armenians during the genocide too.

[Error 404]

I also must address Stormig.

 

This is an Armenian forum. It has it's code of conduct and moral laws. Please obey them and be more careful by choosing words especially when talking about sensitive issues like Armenian Genocide.

 

Thanks

[irlandahay]

You know what the irony behind all this is?

This is not about passing or failing marks.

But there is clearly something to be found less than satisfactory.

Let’s leave aside all the “We were victims” mantra. Apparently some Armenians can get past it – obviously it’s possible, unless there are deep-seated reasons to wallow in it all... In that situation it’s best to be honest and come clean about it.

A Turk of present times who has enough brains and decency to condemn a murder will bow their head in shame upon mention of Dink’s assassination. They will not start beatching about how Dink said this or that. That is reserved to scum. And even then I must say that among all the forae I’ve been active in, I have met one – let’s make that two – arse-hole enough to actually glorify and make excuses about blood and poison and go so far as to threaten me for speaking against them. They are forae just like this one here, with the difference that I also personally know the other two in question. I’m not going to go into the details as to and compare the “justification” – that sort of crap doesn’t fly anywhere except in the imagination of a certain nation of people whom I will refrain from naming, a nation where some dream that Turks said, “Yes, let Armenians’ blood be upon us and our children” and where others think Armenians were born to be a thorn on the glorious Turkish rump.

Mind you, the previously-mentioned act of humility is limited with decency. There is a line not to be crossed. That is a line Dink, whose name you pick up day in and day out but apparently whose ideals you understand nothing of, was very adamant about.

And what do I see here? Hm.

Yes, there are those that whole-heartedly condemn terrorism, but then there are also equally many (I’d very readily say more than two) who make excuses about this or that, going so far as to citing whether the victim in question jumped off with his wife or not. Yes, instead of bowing their heads in shame, they answer up, like the other two I mentioned earlier. You know what should have happened instead? You should have shut your traps while I called a terrorist a SOB and an arse and taken it “like real men.” (The other two I previously mentioned will show whether they are “real men” in the upcoming weeks, hopefully.) Instead I see a bunch of wusses who take offence. How telling. One man’s SOB is another’s hero. How so very much like the Turco-barbarians left out of the “decency” subset of the Wenn diagram. Ah, I just screwed up and invalidated my point by bringing that in, that’s a non-point, did I not?

Ladies and gentlemen, it’s time some people got off their high horse and got within sight of the mirror.

 

altho i hate to admit it (stormig and i havnt ever been on the same page)

but i agree with her (seems we finally are)

 

a terorist, wether an armenian or anything else is a terorist nonetheless.

how did this accomplish any of our goals? "a few gunshots" as dave said, did not accomplish anything. it did nothing! we seem to associate things to other things wrongfully. it wasnt a couple gunshots that got us anywhere! like honestly, putain, this is so dumb, a bunch of idiots, who stormed an embassy didnt accomplish ANYTHING! did you see how the cops were talking about them? or how the news reporters were talking about them? notice how all these peoples lives were affected just by this "couple of gunshots"?

 

we have to stop this, the victories in artsakh were not acts of terrorism, but this stuff was.

I cant say i dont have any feelings of sympathy because there is no armenian on this planet that I hate. but these men were lead in the wrong direction...

 

they gave their lives up...hourray! what a sacrifice! tell me, what have we gained? nothing, what have the turks gained? a couple "martyrs" and more arguments to use against us...

 

smarten up!

[irlandahay]

It's not terrorism so long as you are targeting representatives of the state. That is warfare - guerrilla or conventional.

 

Did ASALA do terrorism? At some point, they started to target civilians. So partly yes. And that is one of their reasons for their disbanding.

 

JCAG/ARA? They never targeted non-representatives of the Turkish state. That is asymmetric warfare.

 

None of these groups are active in any way shape or form today. Their leaders have shifted tactics and have publicly written about their shift in tactics.

 

It is what it is. There are no excuses, only explanations.

 

Either way, a handful of terrorist events by a handful of people does not compare in scale to the calamity of the state-sponsored annihilation of 1.5 million Armenians by the Turkish nation. So don't come here barking about Armenian terrorists -- they don't represent the Armenian nation. (Yanikian, who started it all, was an aging survivor of the genocide in his 70s who experienced the massacres first hand and was acting alone, as an individual.)

 

A handful of people don't have the consent of an entire people; a terrorist nation, though, does have the consent of the entire people -- indeed, during the genocide, Turks bludgeoned to death their local Armenian population, just showing how they felt about their Armenian neighbors.

 

As a Turk, Stormig, you shouldn't be the least bit surprised by the actions of Yanikian or his followers. Vengeance follows by the survivors of an atrocity who felt the pain on their bone. That's why Talaat wanted to kill all boys older than a certain age, so the ones surviving won't remember the pain. (But Tehlirian would survive the blow to his head and reawaken from unconsciousness among the lifeless corpses of his brother and the rest of his family, only to exact revenge... Tehlirian should have died that bloody day in Erzerum along with the rest of the Armenians who refused to convert to Islam. There should have been no Tehlirian to remember the pain. But the survivor always exacts vengeance when the pain is too much to forget; when the pain has consumed him, when exacting revenge has become his very life, his sole purpose that would calm his spirit, to avenge the death of his loved ones who were taken away from him...)

 

BUT I STILL HAVE TO RECEIVE AN EXPLANATION FROM YOU AND YOUR GRANDPARENTS (AND YOUR COUNTRY) ON WHY YOU KILLED 1.5 MILLION OF MY PEOPLE. WHY ON EARTH? Your explanations so far aren't cutting it.

 

Armenians were traitors? My grandfather's father and two older brothers ALL were drafted into the Ottoman Army, just as all other Armenians in the Ottoman Empire. They weren't traitors and they never were heard from again.

 

again mate

 

there is a significant difference between operation Nemesis and ASALA.

for one thing, nemesis was nicknamed "les vengeurs" and ASALA was nicknamed "ass-ala"

another is nemesis members were acquitted relatively often (in the rare occasions they were caught)

and ASALA was caught quite often and was rarely acquitted

 

[irlandahay]

Amazing Armenak isn't it?

 

She is turkish but she is not denying Armenian Genocide and sometimes critisizes Turkey and turkish government (well she critisizes us Armenians alot too:)). Unlike zurderer(who is the troll of this forum) she is much more intelligent and advanced.

 

I think we should treat her with respect to her intelect and personality. Her nationality plays no role. After all many turks saved Armenians during the genocide too.

 

ur kidding!

Edited March 31, 2007 by irlandahay