Anoushik Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Dear Anoushik, when you realize that you can't move an inch or take a single breath without God you'll see why He's so amazing. Yes, the first time I realized that I will no more live life with God (because I realized that He doesn't exist), I admit, I was afraid. But then I got over it... Anoushik, the world has nothing to offer me. You know why? Because I am dead to the world and risen with Jesus Christ because I believed in Him. It isnt something i earned but something He gave me freely. And the life I live now is so much more superior than anything the world has to offer. ... and the reason I got over it is because I have a different outlook on life. I believe the world has everything to offer me. When I listen to Beethoven's Ninth Symphony or read Chekhov I marvel at how sympathetic we, human beings, are to each other. It feels good to be understood, to know that there are other beings just like me, who experience, or experienced, the same emotions - happiness, joy, sadness, dissappointment, triumph, etc. - that I experience in my daily life. My fellow human beings are real, and they guide me through life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Yes, my favorite belief being belief in humanism. Djrak, sSebB, and others who say that life is empty and dry without faith in God - my question to you is why not have faith in humanity, your fellow brothers and sisters on this earth, who are of actual flesh and blood, who make life better every day? Look at the advancement of humanity and what we have accomplished! Yes, we love our neighbours. Humanity is nothing without God though. The world will give you everything, that you don't need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 because I realized that He doesn't exist I wonder how exactly you 'realized' this. Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." It feels good to be understood, to know that there are other beings just like me, who experience, or experienced, the same emotions - happiness, joy, sadness, dissappointment, triumph, etc. - that I experience in my daily life. I suppose you discuss your problems with people to, is that right? Because they 'understand'. It happens too often that humans are always running to people to solve their problems. They don't even know what they're doing, let alone be qualified to tell you what to do. Job 32:8 But it is the spirit in a man, the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding. My fellow human beings are real, and they guide me through life. If they're not following the straight path, how are they to guide you in the right direction? Matthew 15:14 Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 When I listen to Beethoven's Ninth Symphony or ... Anoushik, you know what Beethoven said about the world and what it has to offer (musically)? He said all music not spiritual is like sounds of cries from hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig9 Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Dear Anoushik, when you realize that you can't move an inch or take a single breath without God you'll see why He's so amazing. Anoushik, the world has nothing to offer me. You know why? Because I am dead to the world and risen with Jesus Christ because I believed in Him. It isnt something i earned but something He gave me freely. And the life I live now is so much more superior than anything the world has to offer. How long and how much of a full life will you live without the creator and giver of life? 60?70?100? I will live forever. This is something I know. Not something i've learned. Advancement of anything is impossible without God. Actual flesh is fallen from the life it was meant for. So I rather live the way i was designed to live (as a human being) than to live deceived about my identity and a whole bunch of other stuff. It isnt something theoretical but actual life experience that I'm talking about. When born of the Spirit of God everything changes. Who i was before is dead. I am a new being now and I live for the one who saved me from the trap of the evil one who has blinded the world so that they wont see the glory of Jesus Christ. Life is empty without Him, even if u live the "fullest" life in a worldly sense, you will still feel empty the end of the day. Unsatisfied and wanting more. When u receive LIFE (=Jesus) you become enlightened, spiritually, mentally and physically. Amen. Yev yevus khaghagootyamp uzDer aghachetsook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 (edited) Amen. Yev yevus khaghagootyamp uzDer aghachetsook. And, of course, "Tur ashkharhis khaghatioutiun, Azgis, Hayots Ser Miutiun/Unity". Djrak, Ludwig, Seb, Why the hell/դժոխք are you still here? Why are you not in Ejmiatsin, Gyumri, Vanadzor, Kotayk and Gavar!!?? Get the hell out of here and go to Ejmiatsin. Don’t you think Yerevan, Vanadzor and Gyumri need your blasted “evangelism”? Would you please get the H**l out of here and go to Yerevan to spread your gobble di jewk. And see why so many natives are falling to that goddam Jewhowa’s Witness “sh*t” garbage.!! Read again; http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=7065&hl=hayer ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS, MARCHING AS TO WAR!!! Edited February 16, 2006 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 I wonder how exactly you 'realized' this. Seb, I don't want to go through this again in this forum. I don't have the time nor the energy to describe to "religious" people what it means and feels like to have the light bulb in the head go on, making one think that one has been dreaming most of her life. It just doesn't work. You'll always maintain that there is a God and I'm ignorant, and I'll say that there is no God and you're ignorant. I went through this two years ago, the huge discussions about atheism, theology, religion, that seemed to start in every thread. Check the "Atheism" thread in the Religion section. It's all there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig9 Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Hi Ludwig, What I meant was that it is important that a person has the right belief (and yes, there is indeed a right one-- one with many takes) in their heart. You're right about someone being fooled; it could happen. But my point is that anyone could be faithful. If what you're saying is that the sacraments play a big role, then I do agree with you. Can you elaborate on what you mean by a right belief with many takes? Yes, my favorite belief being belief in humanism. Djrak, sSebB, and others who say that life is empty and dry without faith in God - my question to you is why not have faith in humanity, your fellow brothers and sisters on this earth, who are of actual flesh and blood, who make life better every day? Look at the advancement of humanity and what we have accomplished! Yes, the first time I realized that I will no more live life with God (because I realized that He doesn't exist), I admit, I was afraid. But then I got over it... Having faith in humanity would mean believing people and there actions. Unfortunately humanity is known to make horrendous mistakes and have cruel actions. And, if there is any good in humanity then where does it get its intention? And who’s humanity would we believe in, Bush, Osama bin Laden, Hitler, Gandhi, Jesus or my own? And if we accept any one type of humanity then it means to deny all others types of humanity. Secondly, humanitarianism didn’t build homes for orphan’s, or gather food for the poor, until the 19th century, most of this work was done religious organizations. And those who have made a positive contribution to humanity to make it better had some type of religious conviction. The realization that you have had is just a change in your faith not to believe in God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Yes, we love our neighbours. Humanity is nothing without God though. The world will give you everything, that you don't need. God is nothing without Humanity. Non religious people love their neighbors too. God promises to give you stuff right when nothing will matter anymore, i.e., after you are dead. ... and another cool quote since we are playing the fancy quote game: Sip 2:16:06 3:08 PM Religion is the tool of the devil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 (edited) Anoushik, you know what Beethoven said about the world and what it has to offer (musically)? He said all music not spiritual is like sounds of cries from hell. Spirituality is all good and great ... but the topic here has been religion. More specifically, the Christian religion. Also, if this world has nothing of value for you, then why bother with life? Doesn't that make life a pathetic and useless waste of "time"? If it's all about the after-life, then why live? If you are going to say we are born and then live to prove ourselves worthy of a good after-life, don't bother! That's the worst reason you could give Well, ok, maybe that's not the worst one ... the worst one you could give would be: "Because Jesus said so." Edited February 16, 2006 by Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 God is nothing without Humanity. Non religious people love their neighbors too. God promises to give you stuff right when nothing will matter anymore, i.e., after you are dead. ... and another cool quote since we are playing the fancy quote game: Sip 2:16:06 3:08 PM Religion is the tool of the devil. That's just ridiculous. God created humanity (including yourself) at some point in the past, before that point humanity did not exist but God always existed. This is according to Christianity and all major religions. God gave you everything that you have, God also gave you the ability to accept or reject him (you have chosen to reject him). Let me remind you that your assumptions are based on simplistic interpretations of Christianity. I am sure nobody here will agree on how you understand Christianity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Having faith in humanity would mean believing people and there actions. Unfortunately humanity is known to make horrendous mistakes and have cruel actions. And, if there is any good in humanity then where does it get its intention? And who’s humanity would we believe in, Bush, Osama bin Laden, Hitler, Gandhi, Jesus or my own? And if we accept any one type of humanity then it means to deny all others types of humanity. Exactly. If we look at the negative side of humans (making up the majority of humanity) then we start to wonder why it is like that. Where is all the evil coming from? Why? Why the inequality? Why is it that throughout human history a few good people have worked hard to make life better for everyone else, and the rest come and destroy it in a minute? What is the point? What is the point of life? If there is indeed God, then why does he let people suffer? And about your point about accepting any one type of humanity: why the need to accept one type of humanity? And what is that one type of humanity? There is no need to divide humanity in groups. Humanity, humane, already refers to the best qualities in all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig9 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) Exactly. If we look at the negative side of humans (making up the majority of humanity) then we start to wonder why it is like that. Where is all the evil coming from? Why? Why the inequality? Why is it that throughout human history a few good people have worked hard to make life better for everyone else, and the rest come and destroy it in a minute? What is the point? What is the point of life? If there is indeed God, then why does he let people suffer? And about your point about accepting any one type of humanity: why the need to accept one type of humanity? And what is that one type of humanity? There is no need to divide humanity in groups. Humanity, humane, already refers to the best qualities in all of us. You have asked some excellent questions. So, I will need some time answer them due to the depth of the questions being asked. Thank you. Edited February 17, 2006 by Ludwig9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 That's just ridiculous. God created humanity (including yourself) at some point in the past, before that point humanity did not exist but God always existed. This is according to Christianity and all major religions. God gave you everything that you have, God also gave you the ability to accept or reject him (you have chosen to reject him). Let me remind you that your assumptions are based on simplistic interpretations of Christianity. I am sure nobody here will agree on how you understand Christianity. Just wondering who wrote the books of those religions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Just wondering who wrote the books of those religions. Who wrote those books? People like you and me. Except that, those idiots who claim to have written the book of Genesis knew as much geography as the Neanderthals, when they placed the Garden of Eden in Armenia instead of in the middle of the Negev Desert and had that drunken idiot Noah land his Ark on an Armenian mountain ( may be he was too drunk) instead of Mount Sinai. However, they may not have been so stupid to not know that there are no floods at Mount Sinai. Those “writers” were not writers at all, they were plagiarizers of the first order, even if clumsy at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Who wrote those books? People like you and me. Except that, those idiots who claim to have written the book of Genesis knew as much geography as the Neanderthals, when they placed the Garden of Eden in Armenia instead of in the middle of the Negev Desert and had that drunken idiot Noah land his Ark on an Armenian mountain ( may be he was too drunk) instead of Mount Sinai. However, they may not have been so stupid to not know that there are no floods at Mount Sinai. Those “writers” were not writers at all, they were plagiarizers of the first order, even if clumsy at that. Exactly my point. Religion is the most important tool created by men to manipulate people into submission. Those who wrote the book are like the sheep dogs that heard the sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Here again, another pointless discussion when the answer is the Multiverse and Sips Quantum bubbles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Oh boy, we're back to the multiverse... Someone get this boy some more illicit "medication" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 And about your point about accepting any one type of humanity: why the need to accept one type of humanity? And what is that one type of humanity? There is no need to divide humanity in groups. Humanity, humane, already refers to the best qualities in all of us. Anoushik jan, I love how you possess such seemingly unlimited patience. It is truly an awe-inspiring quality of yours - and surely one that makes you such an outstanding musician. I wish I could go through the same discussions all over again, and imagine new ways of posing the same questions, making the same arguments and proving the same points without sounding cliché or worse, resorting to abuse & insults. They will try to preach to you, convert you and show you the light - yet you're steady as a rock and you manage to continue the discourse. Bravo to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 If we look at the negative side of humans (making up the majority of humanity) then we start to wonder why it is like that. Where is all the evil coming from? Why? Why the inequality? Why is it that throughout human history a few good people have worked hard to make life better for everyone else, and the rest come and destroy it in a minute? What is the point? What is the point of life? If there is indeed God, then why does he let people suffer? Ok, you better listen carefully. Anoushik, Is there such a thing as heat? Yes Is there such a thing as cold? No, there isn't. You can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, just the absence of it. What about darkness, Anoushik? Is there such a thing as darkness? No, I'm afraid not. Darkness is the absence of light. You can have low light, normal light, brightlight, flashing light..But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you? For you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and there is death, good and evil. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. For God did not create evil, but created good. Evil is merely the absence of good. That is not God's choice, it is a person's choice. Stop blaming God for the evil in the world. If anyone, blame your fellow human beings, who choose to engage in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Just wondering who wrote the books of those religions. People who had God-knowledge wrote those books. But it does not matter who wrote, it is more important as to what's written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) Ok, you better listen carefully. Anoushik, Is there such a thing as heat? Yes Is there such a thing as cold? No, there isn't. You can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, just the absence of it. What about darkness, Anoushik? Is there such a thing as darkness? No, I'm afraid not. Darkness is the absence of light. You can have low light, normal light, brightlight, flashing light..But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you? For you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and there is death, good and evil. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. For God did not create evil, but created good. Evil is merely the absence of good. That is not God's choice, it is a person's choice. Stop blaming God for the evil in the world. If anyone, blame your fellow human beings, who choose to engage in it. Excellent post Seb! However, please be considerate with Anoushik, she is a very kind and respectful person, and as Vava was pointing out very patient (though I have to disagree with Vava that people are trying to convert her). Edited February 17, 2006 by Sasun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Exactly my point. Religion is the most important tool created by men to manipulate people into submission. Those who wrote the book are like the sheep dogs that heard the sheep. Nah. Religion is a tool for liberation, not for submission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Sasun jan thats exacly my point. I'm talking about mind set and power of mind here, if yu want to belive, that is the question, not just in God, Christianity, Jewdeism, Islam, etc.......but any form of belive, simply put, I belived if i took the madication the pain would go away, dosent matter if it was waht it was, main thing is it was gone do you get my point? Sorry Edo jan, forgot to answer. Yes, I understand what you are saying. That also happens. What I am saying though there is also spiritual healing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Exactly. If we look at the negative side of humans (making up the majority of humanity) then we start to wonder why it is like that. Where is all the evil coming from? Why? Why the inequality? Why is it that throughout human history a few good people have worked hard to make life better for everyone else, and the rest come and destroy it in a minute? What is the point? What is the point of life? If there is indeed God, then why does he let people suffer? Anoushik jan, please suggest a better way to create the world where there is no evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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