Sasun Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 You guys can attribute healing to god or whatever - I securely believe that it is the "self" that heals. Whether it is through the belief in religion, homeopathic medicine, or sheer determination. It is mind over matter - what the mind believes, in fact. So the belief in religion can certainly be a healing force... but magically healing someone else is an entirely different matter. Vava, mind definitely plays a role in healing, and I agree that it is mind over matter. At the same time, it is also soul over mind. There is no magic in healing. It is about life force which exists everywhere in the universe and in us. By our wrong actions we shut the ways of life energy into our system and get sick. Healing consists of sending life energy to the deseased parts of the body and so curing. The modes of how that can happen differs. You say the mind cures, yes, the mind can open the ways of the life force. Prayer also opens the ways of life force. But spiritual healing is done by controlling the life force. Spiritually advanced people have control over life force, they simply send the life force to the sick parts of a body. The degree of advancement determines the degree of success. However, the sick person has to accept the healing, otherwise it won't work no matter who is the healer. Jesus could not heal people in some places where people did not have faith in him and so could not accept the healing force. To sum up, there is no magic in healing, it is a science. It is however very little understood and known, particularly in the West because in dark ages the ignorant churchmen burned spiritually advanced people as witches and what not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig9 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Hello Anoushik, I tried to short in my explanations rather than rambling on. Exactly. If we look at the negative side of humans (making up the majority of humanity) then we start to wonder why it is like that. Ok, if we agree that the majority of humankind is negative, knowing that at one time or another it will be destructive, then why would want to put our faith in knowing well enough that it’s bound to destroy itself sooner or later? Where is all the evil coming from? In my opinion, evil, in the simplest terms is an action. The reason why anything can be considered evil is because its actions are contrary to what is good. I would like to also add by not acting or deciding on something is also considered an action as well, basically no action is an action. Additionally, action doesn’t necessarily mean some type of physicality; an action can take place in a person heart or mind. Now in order for man to know what evil is man would have to know its contrast with good. In Christianity the definition of what is good is God. The root of evil is the first contrary action to God, by the Devil revolting against God. And the root of all sin is our will being done against God’s Will as in the Garden of Eden. Now it might seem as God wanted us to be robots to His Will, but how would a robot distinguish between what is right or wrong? God gave man freewill and man does whatever he desires with it. Man can either glorify God or be destructive, the choice however is in mans hand. Secondly, by defining God as the ultimate Good then, by doing Gods Will are we not trying to create a better place for us to live in? Evil continues to exist because something is committing it. Basically, there is hunger in the world because man has let it happen; there are wars in the world because man creates them. Why? Why the inequality? Why is it that throughout human history a few good people have worked hard to make life better for everyone else, and the rest come and destroy it in a minute? What is the point? What is the point of life? If you believe that life has a point, then you believe you have a purpose in it. And if you believe that you have a purpose in life then there exists something within you, and us, which has placed that purpose in us and, if something has placed a purpose in us then that something must be greater then us because it knows our purpose and we don’t. If there is indeed God, then why does he let people suffer? This is a topic that can be discussed extensively. I would recommend reading a book written by C.S. Lewis called The Problem of Pain (The author who wrote, The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe). I think you would very well enjoy this book, I have bought the book on CD and do enjoy listening to it. How would we know what love is if we didn’t experience suffering? If we felt love all the time and knew not the opposite then how would we know if we have really loved? Basically, if a person feels warm and fuzzy inside when someone loves them, it is because a person knows what it feels like to be cold and alone. Would a fire really be called a fire if it didn’t burn? We know what love is because we have experienced suffering. And about your point about accepting any one type of humanity: why the need to accept one type of humanity? And what is that one type of humanity? There is no need to divide humanity in groups. Humanity, humane, already refers to the best qualities in all of us. And about accepting the one type of humanity, my point is that there are many views regarding humanity. My question is who decides that any of them are right or wrong. Can they all be right? Absolutely not, because human beings have conflicting views of each other and it is a natural part of humanity to divide a person into groups, that is basically how a societies and civilizations are defined. I understand the point you are making, that you mean humanity defines the best qualities in. But who defines what those qualities are? And what might be considered best for one might mean the worst for another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 God is nothing without Humanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Spirituality is all good and great ... but the topic here has been religion. More specifically, the Christian religion. what does spirituality mean Sip? What does Spirit mean? What does religion mean? Maybe if u tell me what your definitions or understanding of these terms are we can understand each other better. Also, if this world has nothing of value for you, then why bother with life? Doesn't that make life a pathetic and useless waste of "time"? If it's all about the after-life, then why live? the world and life are 2 different things the world without Life (=Jesus) is a dead and fallen world full of lies and no it's not a waste of time on the contrary each second counts and is very priceless. Eternal life starts here in this life. What is a waste is the time i spend in this world without Jesus Christ. That's the waste! We use every second of our life to prepare us for the next and everlasting while living the eternal and gradually growing in that spiritual life as our Father teaches us thru His Spirit for His Son's sake. I belong to Jesus and this life is the only chance for me to let Him purify me and for me to serve Him and show Him my gratitude. If you are going to say we are born and then live to prove ourselves worthy of a good after-life, don't bother! That's the worst reason you could give Well, ok, maybe that's not the worst one ... the worst one you could give would be: "Because Jesus said so." You've been around very lousy "believers" haven't you? Jesus has talked about them too: "To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." - Rev 3:1-6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Just wondering who wrote the books of those religions. The Bible is written by God. All other books are written by men. If you have a hard time accepting this that's because you haven't experienced yet the power of His Word which gives life to the dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Anoushik jan, I love how you possess such seemingly unlimited patience. It is truly an awe-inspiring quality of yours - and surely one that makes you such an outstanding musician. I wish I could go through the same discussions all over again, and imagine new ways of posing the same questions, making the same arguments and proving the same points without sounding cliché or worse, resorting to abuse & insults. They will try to preach to you, convert you and show you the light - yet you're steady as a rock and you manage to continue the discourse. Bravo to you Thank you very much for you kind words, dear Vava Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Anoushik jan, please suggest a better way to create the world where there is no evil. Sireli Sasun, I can't. Life itself is about survival. Survival at any cost. This means that one has to (whether one wants to or not) stomp at others' paths and take their space and resources if one wants to secure his/her future. It's an egotistic world. It's true, there are some very few who by nature are sensitive about others' concerns and careful that they won't hurt others in their pursuit of securing their own future. But we all know what happens to those kinds of individuals. Let's take a very simple example. Freeways. Los Angeles freeways. The entrance of 5 North on 110 to be exact. Every single day there are cars who try to squeeze in last minute by cutting in front of someone instead of getting in line early. At least one car will cut in front of me, one will get in behind me, I'll see a couple cars getting in front of the car right ahead of me, etc. Maybe they have a good excuse, like they have an important appointment to get to. Maybe they think that it's only them, only one car cutting the line, how can it hurt? But in the course of this one car getting in last minute and another following in last minute one sees that the line keeps slowing down and the few honest people who decided to wait in line end up waiting unnecessarily long before finally getting to 5. And sometimes it's so easy to prevent those last minute cars from getting in line. It's so easy to block them off by closely following the car ahead... but one has to be a sadist to do that. To make the person pay for cutting in front by making them end up on a completely different destination. So, the line keeps slowing down. Some waiting twice as long to get to five, and others just gliding through that portion of the freeway in seconds. It's a very simple example, but you can apply this to any situation in life. It's a cruel world. I don't see where God fits in (let's say if He existed in the first place). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Hello Anoushik, I tried to short in my explanations rather than rambling on. I really appreciate your thought out answers. It's late for me to comment on your post, but I'd like to do so sometime tomorrow. It's always great to see people holding respectful views of others' opinions by taking time to analyze what they are going to say instead of copying and pasting quotes from the Bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 It's always great to see people holding respectful views of others' opinions by taking time to analyze what they are going to say instead of copying and pasting quotes from the Bible. . .. ... It's a cruel world. I don't see where God fits in "Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you." - Luke 17:20-21 His words are better than mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 The Bible is written by God. All other books are written by men. Since you seem to be as omniscient as He, perhaps you can tell us what tool God used to write the Book. Did he use a computer? Which kind? PC or Apple? What program and what fonts did He use? Or did He use a ballpoint pen, and what paper did He write it on? Papyrus or 8x10? Of course we know that He is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient, then why did we have to translate it from Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek? I would love to see His handwriting and His spelling. I wonder if he dotted every I and crossed every T. Why did not He write it in as many languages that He had helped create? Did not we say that He is omniscient, all knowing, why did He not write the Bible in Armenian as well? What language does God speak? Why only Hebrew? Is He not intelligent enough to learn Armenian that we have to read His words in some other goddam language??!! Send Yehovah back to His chosen people. Give us our own Aramazt and our own Astuats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Anoushik, isn't it funny that you have no reply to my post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Since you seem to be as omniscient as He, perhaps you can tell us what tool God used to write the Book. Did he use a computer? Which kind? PC or Apple? What program and what fonts did He use? Or did He use a ballpoint pen, and what paper did He write it on? Papyrus or 8x10? Of course we know that He is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient, then why did we have to translate it from Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek? I would love to see His handwriting and His spelling. I wonder if he dotted every I and crossed every T. Why did not He write it in as many languages that He had helped create? Did not we say that He is omniscient, all knowing, why did He not write the Bible in Armenian as well? What language does God speak? Why only Hebrew? Is He not intelligent enough to learn Armenian that we have to read His words in some other goddam language??!! Send Yehovah back to His chosen people. Give us our own Aramazt and our own Astuats. wow so much anger! God wrote the Bible with his Holy Spirit thru prophets, apostles and desciples in their own free will (without forcing Himself). There is something i noticed. You think God is a dictator. He's not. He is true freedom and he is just. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Send Yehovah back to His chosen people. Yehova is living in His chosen people. I am one of them. Give us our own Aramazt and our own Astuats. Where is your Aramazt? who has taken a god from you? This must be the most ridiculous thing I've read so far. Where is he? let him show himself. Our Lord lives in us and shines his light to the world thru us. You can either accept Him or not. it is not us as humans who can persuade you or "convert" you. That's absurd, we're only human. But God works in us and with us to get thru to you. He also works in your lives to remind you directly. You either turn to Him or keep living in denial. You are free and He is fair and just. He is love, and patient and all knowing. He is above everything and everyone. "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me." - Rev 3:20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) Since you seem to be as omniscient as He, perhaps you can tell us what tool God used to write the Book. Did he use a computer? Which kind? PC or Apple? What program and what fonts did He use? Or did He use a ballpoint pen, and what paper did He write it on? Papyrus or 8x10? Of course we know that He is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient, then why did we have to translate it from Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek? I would love to see His handwriting and His spelling. I wonder if he dotted every I and crossed every T. Why did not He write it in as many languages that He had helped create? Did not we say that He is omniscient, all knowing, why did He not write the Bible in Armenian as well? What language does God speak? Why only Hebrew? Is He not intelligent enough to learn Armenian that we have to read His words in some other goddam language??!! Send Yehovah back to His chosen people. Give us our own Aramazt and our own Astuats. Shame on you to use such arrogent and foul language and to our almighty God. Don't you dare to speak to my God that way, do you hear? What or who do you think you are? You never was one to compose himself, no not you! Edited February 17, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Hi again Djrak: Should one dedicate himself/herself to Jesus once, every now and then or everyday? What is it required of us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Hi again Djrak: Should one dedicate himself/herself to Jesus once, every now and then or everyday? What is it required of us? Hi Anahid, There is no rule really. But if I understand your question correctly, I think you are asking whether repentance is a once in a lifetime thing or not. It can be an everyday thing or an every second thing depending on your relationship with Him. But when you feel that you have been distracted and drifted from the right path, not necessarily by doing something BIG, but maybe by "sleeping" on your calling, you can always renew your vow. He is always there for us and greets us with open arms. We need to be more serious about our lives and realize that for what He's done for us there is nothing worth not being with Him all the time and being obedient to Him. He deserves all our love and praise. God bless you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) Djrak; What do you mean by sleeping on your calling? Do you mean the relationship we have with God or Jesus? And what I meant was; Do we have to "abashxaril" every day. You know, dedicate ourselves to Jesus everyday not just repentence. Also, what happends to bad marriages; by that I mean about people finding out after they get married that their spouses are drunken, murderers, thieves, sickos, abusers, womanizers or they simply fall out of love. I know Jesus is the head of the union of married couples. What does God or Jesus think about that? Do they want the "good" or the "saintly" spouse to stay in the marriage anyway and but be tortured while living on earth? As it becomes more of a disaster than anything else and also for the offsprings. How does Jesus and God view divorces on these matters, when a person is rightly divorced under the circumstances? Edited February 17, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Djrak; What do you mean by sleeping on your calling? Do you mean the relationship we have with God or Jesus? And what I meant was; Do we have to "abashxaril" every day. You know, dedicate ourselves to Jesus everyday not just repentence. Also, what happends to bad marriages; by that I mean about people finding out after they get married that their spouses are drunken, murderers, thieves, sickos, abusers, womanizers or they simply fall out of love. I know Jesus is the head of the union of married couples. What does God or Jesus think about that? Do they want the "good" or the "saintly" spouse to stay in the marriage anyway and but be tortured while living on earth? As it becomes more of a disaster than anything else and also for the offsprings. How does Jesus and God view divorces on these matters, when a person is rightly divorced under the circumstances? Anahid, i think "abashxaril" means repent. All that it means is "to believe in God" or "hantsnvil Asdoudzo". Call it whatever you want and do it however you want. It's a personal thing between you and Jesus. But do it! Do it 100000 times if u have to. When He takes you in His arms you'll know about marriage, St Paul sais not to divorce your spouse if you come to Christ and he's not a Christian. He sais not to marry a non-Christian in the first place. But if you do, still he instructs not to leave him just because he's not Christian. BUT, that doesnt mean take all the abuse from him! Anahid, I cant give you specific advise or instruction about such things but i know that if you give yourself to Him (if you are talking about yourself here) He will show you the best way to solve things. He will tell you what to do. And it wont be that hard. He takes the yoke on Himself and makes everything easy for us when we trust Him. In Christianity there are no rules! When we come to Christ, His Spirit gives us real freedom (not the freedom the world talks about like doing whatever your desires tell you and stuff). If you have something else on your mind or something you need further clarification on i'd be glad to help as much as i can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 No Djrak; I wasn't talking about myself or any one friend. I just wanted to be more clarified about such matters as I view the world being upside down about marriages and unions in general. A great many divorces, especially in the past 50 years or a great many wrong marriages still clinging on to each other for this and that wrong reasons. So many divorces and remarriages and not just in the U.S. but in Europe and even other parts of the world. I simply wanted to know what Jesus or God views wrong marriages after it is done. How right or wrong is it for both parties involved about such matters. Thank you and may God bless you also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 People who had God-knowledge wrote those books. But it does not matter who wrote, it is more important as to what's written. All religions make the same claim. If all inspired by Gods knowladge, why not have one book for all to follow. Of course it matters who wrote the book. May be the authers of these books are the same group of people who wanted to divide and conquer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Nah. Religion is a tool for liberation, not for submission. You can liberate yourself by being honest,sincere and most importantly keep your jealousy in control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 The Bible is written by God. All other books are written by men. If you have a hard time accepting this that's because you haven't experienced yet the power of His Word which gives life to the dead. How do you know that? Other religions make the same claim about their books. Humans existed for centuries how come these books came within the last two centuries, may be some people got smarter and wanted to control, use religion for their benefit and others follow their footsteps once they found out that religion really works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Sasun, I hope you are reading this thread and you finally realize what I have been saying about "believers". Djark: About my definitions of spirituality and religion ... Religion -- it tells you what to think. Spirituality -- it is YOUR personal quest on what to think. Both spirituality and religion often lack a fundamental basis and rely mainly on assumptions, hearsay, superstition, and imagination. But I can respect spirituality faaaaar more than I will ever respect most religions. Religion is a very convinient escape for a lazy mind. You just take everything as given and stop to question things. That is just sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Djark: About my definitions of spirituality and religion ... Religion -- it tells you what to think. Spirituality -- it is YOUR personal quest on what to think. Both spirituality and religion often lack a fundamental basis and rely mainly on assumptions, hearsay, superstition, and imagination. But I can respect spirituality faaaaar more than I will ever respect most religions. Religion is a very convinient escape for a lazy mind. You just take everything as given and stop to question things. That is just sad. so it's all about what you think? it's all mental? So you believe that man is mind and body? no soul? considering your definitions, I can assure you that true Christians are neither religious nor spiritual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 so it's all about what you think? it's all mental? So you believe that man is mind and body? no soul? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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