sen_Vahan

"Suddenly he had an intense urge to scratch his groin on the street and reaching his hand in his pocket he tried to be as discreet as possible but the persistent itchiness continued to be present. It has been twenty years since he plucked himself on the shores of plenty-ever dream destination place for milk and honey- only that most immigrants like himself find out the hard way that milk and honey comes at the price of working your soul out to ever more sterile institutions in the name of “team player” and ready to smile on moments of notice. It strucked him add that looking at his boyhood black and white photographs in Armenia that none of his friends including himself smiled and the sheer naturalness of the photos were refreshing to look at rather American ever annoying “say cheese” methodology. He felt torn inside outside, left right, up and down. He distinctly felt these paradoxes pulling him on all directions: He was neither wholly Armenian nor American nor American Armenian nor Armenian American. Much like a Buddhist monk neither anything in particular but simply maybe just human. His thoughts were drifting on the slow moving bus in the Boston Mass. Ave traffic –It seemed only yesterday that he was swimming in Zangu River in a working “Akhbar” neighborhood of Yerevan. His mother endured the wrathful insults herd at her on daily bases by the locals and for what? That she moved from Iran to Armenia for love of the country? Cruel…. Delusional like most recent immigrates from Diaspora, never truly excepted by the locals, like some kind of cancer, every social ill were unfairly blamed on them. Miscued identities plucked from the trees never had a resting place, ever more internally in turmoil, explains our displaced mentality in Diaspora since how else to explain all the pain manifested by the genocide. What is nationality, Roots, heritage…? He did not have the answers but felt the answers reverberate deep inside himself like a volcano on the verge of eruption but contrived chained under artifice ego suppression. To be continued"

"VaHan JAn a Feiendly Question 4 barerits kazmvats Naxadasutyan mej 3 tarber lezunerov kareli e xosel ???" Kareli e , Mosjan, 3<4

A friendly reminder: Not bochka but takar

Again yellow and red autumn... "noriz andzrev,mshush,amp, taxits anhun, txrank hez, Ashun,kez inch knkshutyamb, Inch xoskerov ergem kez..." I spent last fall in Baltimore,and one before that in Russia and now in Michigan... And I always compare where it is more beautiful. Hard to say... It always takes me back,to my childhood and it is always like in Armenia.Each time I see red and yellow trees I "go back" to Armenia,to colorful Ijevan with her fogs and fast Agstev... "Ashun,kagzr u bagdzali, Inch xoskerov ergem kez..."

"Much like yesterday, I didn't accomplish a DAMN thing today. Research is really like banging your head against the wall." Oh, yeah, and it seems that the wall knows well that you are doind a research... I have the same problem. I was doing res in several places and feeling the strength of the wall I decided to change the 'room' several times - moscow to hopkins,and then to another place,and now... Probably one needs to be patient to overcome the damn wall. "There is always a chance you may break the wall ... but most of the time, you will break your HEAD (or at least end up with a nasty headache)." True... "There is also a non-zero probability that all the molecules in your body will line up such that you will go straight through the wall without touching anything. That possibility, as small as it may be, is what keeps you going." And that probability is called hope or optimism. But there is also such a thing as luck!.. "Yes, I had these amazing insights while banging my head at the wall today." Maybe the wall is not of infinite hight so having enough energy one can jump over!...

"I would like to second the first opinion expressed by the Cat – the expressed attitudes on the subject of sexual freedoms are an outcome of the centuries of Islamic rule over Armenians. Evidently, such views are characteristic to the entire Asia Minor and Caucasus." This is true but partly.The same tradition was practiced among folks in mazdeist persia which did have a great influence on Armenia.It was also important in greek culture which also had some influence on Armenia. Moreover,it is not just a muslim tradition it was practiced long before the birth of Mohammed,for example, in China (where it is still important),Korea,etc.By the way,it is even still alive in modern korean westernized society. Another example is lesgins in caucasus that had the same tradition long before the adoption of Islam. Thanks, Vahan

Is it possible that the author bought his PhD? The problem is that if nobody attacks this stupid author and criticises him then later one may say that ok,no critics,silence and consequently all is true. Masses tend to believe anti-intellectual works rather tha intellectual ones...

"Vahan jan, I understand that it was(or actually I should say is important) to Armenians and maybe the Chinese and half the population of the world, my question is why? Why is it so important." Azat, One can as well ask why it was important to create such a thing as the family. Why people decided to create the institution of the family some time in their history?Why do family values exist in all the societies? And what is being discussed here is also a family value in some countries.(by the way as you said for the half of the world)It is hard to find the origin of this tradition of virginity (it's not christian and not muslim) and post your ideas if you have some I would be glad to discuss.What I am thinking is that "virginity of the soul is necessary"(Nietzsche) but one cannot take two things apart - the soul and the physiology. And probably the virginity of these two things makes the relations of two persons stronger,more romantic,dedicated.(thinking about the origin) If one can keep virginity before the marriage that's great but if preserving it brings to sins,suffering and pain then he/she should not try to keep it.(my opinion) Vahan

"Your logic of the situation, like I have pointed out in the past, is based on “suggestionism” not facts. You insinuate that the Ottoman government had reasons to question Armenian loyalty, when you bring no facts but rather suggestions of what may have done the Armenians, if this or that. This is not how history works. The Armenians could have eradicated the Muslims if this or that would have happened. But this or that did not happen, so brining it up is just worthless and senseless, this is not how history works. History works as this: “What happened” Not: “What would have happened if.” Apologists play the card of: “What would have happened,” this is not about history, what you are talking about has nothing to do with history itself. Questioning the loyalty of the Armenians, and what would have happened, is not history, because history is about the record of past, not the record of pasts possibilities. The Ottoman government gave orders for Armenian men conscriptions, and even from Ottoman archives presented by the foreign ministry affairs, before the deportation, there was no incidents. In fact, the reason why the government deported the rest of the population, was to prevent rebellions, not because the Armenians rebelled." Exactly.. Ali, too many "as if"-s, "what if"-s",etc. You look at the history through these if-s and you look at the future in the same way.But in the case of future it is probably reasonable(not always though) whereas it is not for the history.

Marco, I will try to give you more generalized answer which will be mainly informative.If the question is adressed to diasporan armenians then I think they will give a better answer than me. The tradition of virginity in marriage is still practiced in Armenia and there is the so-called tradition of "karmir khndzor"(red apple). If one grows in a culture where it is an important issue then he/she will most likely follow that tradition.Is that really important for modern young men in Armenia? Yes, it is.Knowing it women try to stay virgin before their marriage.But there is also the other side of the problem - do women want to be virgin before they get married? Generally speaking yes (my opinion) but let women speak about it. This tradition is also alive in China(as an example) and talking to chinese girls about that I understand that it IS important for them."Every girl wants to be a virgin before..." a chinese women told me once... "the status of virginity"(sounds funny) is important in the extended family among those who practice that tradition. I don't know how to answer the 2nd question. If you ask why it is so important then we need to think why that tradition is important(or was important)... Stay more in the topic and you will get to know a lot about jews,jew-lovers and vice versa and about many other things... Thanks, Vahan

I think we have russian armenian, arabic armenian,etc. as long as we have russian armenians, arabic armenians,etc. It is natural that a devided and subdevided nation has many dialects. The unity among people gives a 'united' language, russian as an example. Bringing two versions of armenian (w. e.) closer means in my opinion bringing closer two 'nations'. As I mentioned some other time I met a lot of fellow armenians here in the USA and maybe 95% don't speak the language at all or know just how to say several things. My first impression when I came to the US and met armenians here - we are different since there is a long distance btw us and that distance is the language. And not because they speak the W type but simply because they don't speak at all.. The W dialect is beautiful but it disappeares slowly in diaspora maybe because the diaspora does disappear.. If all the armenians here talk the W armenian well that will be great and it may stay separate from E armenian if people want so. But the problem is that either people don't want or they can't or something else I don't know. This topic began I guess with hagarag claiming that he does not understand Mosjan's rusahayeren...I think everybody who knows one of the versions well will certainly understand the other one.

"Unfortunately, so many of YOU were raised in the Middle East or in Soviet Union where nothing is "up-front." Just look at the BS of Arafat, who talks out of two sides of his mouth." Dear Western Angel, What are you talking about in these last two sentences? Eli mrsaz es, ay tga?...

hagarag, look: "Mosjan, Russahye lezoot chem haskenar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Here you are saying that you don't understand his russian armenian, right? At least you wrote it.. And here: "I stated very clearly that I don't understand the Armenian that MosJan writes in Roman characters" Roman characters? We all use those characters online, but you were talking about his rusahayeren. Clear or not? Im kartsikov, du iskakaniz shat uger mrsum es aravotner' u ches haskanum, te inch es durs talis.... Now, about the hidden meaning. Ok, it seems you don't like jokes. So be it...Sad... There is no hidden meaning if talking seriously( in what Mosjan posted). It is absolutely clear that you catch cold in the morning and then start to post ankap ev animast baner... That's it. Vahan

"Mosjan,yes al chem haskenar.some of us here like me have hard time understanding the eastern Armenian dialect.please help. " Lets not call it an eastern dialect since it's the formal Armenian language. There is one way to understand it - learn it... Yes, it has some hidden meaning in this particular case reg Hagarag's post.. But Mosjan, is that so cold in LA where he lives?...

"I'm certainly willing to correrspond with you as before and I'd have Efes Pilsen with you if I were ever in Istanbul again...and of course invite you to drink some real (craft) beer that we have here in the states (like a Victory Hop Devil for instance - yum yum!)" Wait, wait, wait, last time you were going to try some turkish drink in Istanbul with Ali!?!?!?!?! Now you turned to beer!?!... What is the next try?? Ohh, come on Thoth... Things have changed I understand... Ali, I am really sorry for the temperature changes.. did it finally stabilize? (just kidding).. Vahan

Before i leave the topic I just want to add a comment: Nairi, Hovsep, don't underestimate Turkey and don't overestimate Armenia. Aloha!

"they had the right to do so, and the turks had the right to do something about it (and before you jump on it, no, they had no "right" to commit genocide, nor was it necessary)" But they did and we know what. Why if it was not necessary? Religion? hatred? Present-day Turkey does not seem to be ready for such an agreement, Ali, because I said before "turkey was not ready to recognise the kurdish identity until 1991, it has now. it wasn't ready to allow public use of kurdish, it just has. it wasn't ready to abolish the death penalty, it just has. it isn't ready to reach such an agreement now, it will be. don't underestimate turkey." So, did Turkey demand not to have any land claims or whatever from kurds to solve the mentioned problems? By the way, I never underestimate a nation that built an empire. It's a special talent to rule and build a big country. "you miss a point here: from the turkish side, you cannot START by asking them to drop the denial, because they are concerned about the land claims. if you start by dropping the land claims, then turkey will have no reason to be concerned about, and getting the recognition will be much easier." There are land claims in some minds but not in the official position. "the recognition is not the BEGINNING of the process, it is the intended CULMINATION (unless the armenian agenda is ultimately about getting the lands back, with ag recognition being an intermediate step, as turkey suspects)." These are all your gueses though. we have no american troops on our borders (iraq may be excepted now)." Right, because you do not need them there. "precisely my point. you are not alone. we are." So sad. I would say we are and were btw you (big guys) none of which really cares about us. And why should they? "yes a small country can bother us with its sword when it gets stronger. israel is a tiny country with barely two million people in it, and kicks the xxxx out of 150 million arabs from the pacific shore to the atlantic. it is in the same region, which was until 80 years ago part of the same empire, and was craeted by the very same great powers that had carved up the ottoman empire and had supported you." First, we are not jews, and we do not rule the Wall Street Banks (and not only), we do not have such a huge support and powerful organizations all over the world. Again your gueses? Second, I have no idea how those great powers supported us. If they had done it the massacre would not have happened. "it hasn't taken 1,000 years to get strong enough to get rid of the azeris, twice your size, has it?" Why do you compare your country with a Soviet republic that in fact did not have an army and was formed territorially not by themselves (as in turkish case) but by others. "heaven forbid. the first people who are going to face the problem are probably us, since we are very probably goingto store it in a bunker on an earthquake zone, and then when an earthquake hits, we'll all glow in the dark." We are also in the eartquake zone, why do you think we will want that crap? "no, in fact. the last thing i do is laugh about it. and if he - or someone like him - one day indeed gets to be your president, you will not be able to laugh, either, will you?" I agree. "wouldn't you be at least careful if you were a turk?" As I said I would. then you understand me." I probably do, not sure though. See you, Vahan

Hi, Ali, 1. the land claims are not there because of ag denial. various armenian groups were demanding land from the turks since well before 1915 or even the hamidian massacres in 1891-95. They had the right to do so. Show that they didn't and cannot now. 2. we are in a vicious circle here. turkey is not going to officially recognise ag unless and until land claims are dropped, and land claims are going to persists unless and until turkey recognises ag. to break it, there has to be an agreement that the land claims will be dropped prior to ag recognition, upon condition that the dropping of these claims will be immediately followed by ag recognition (=you drop the land claims today, we recognise the ag tomorrow kind of thing). Present-day Turkey does not seem to be ready for such an agreement, Ali, because I said before what we see in the world is the denial of the fact. And I guess the propaganda of denial still goes on in your country and people are still being brainwashed. How do you want us to deal with a state with such an attitude among people? Sorry, but it does not seem to be a civilized manner to solve a problem. 3. the yataghan is out of date. The principle is the same. "these days it is the buttons. and before actual warfare, there are a host of economic/political measures such as trade sanctions, embargoes, freezing of assets, denial/postponement of eu membership etc." Exactly, and that's what you are probably doing? "and do not forget that while you tend to see just us when you look at us, we tend to see the russians, eu and, to some extent, the usa in addition to you when we look at you. after all, the turkish armenian border was (is it still ) patrolled by russian troops and not armenian ones. " Sounds like you consider us to be very important. By the way, there are russian as well as armenian soldiers,troops in the border. Whereas you see russians , eu, and us (?), we see you dealing with this problem. "plus, if the armenians get stronger, they will want to "solve" the problem the way all strong nations solve. you have a problem with the azeris and you are solving it by the sword, not negotiations, because you have a sword strong enough and they don't (and we are not helping them much, because we don't want to get into yet another quagmire)." 1.you mean economic sunctions or buttons? Neither one will work with turkey because neither is possible. You probably think a small country will bother you (a powerful one) with its sword when it gets stronger? Come on, this game does not make any sense, sorry. "the example is right before our eyes. artshakh opted out of attempting to achieve peaceful coexistence with the azeris already when azerbaijan was not even ruled by the azeris. and the issue there has always been more about getting ancestral lands back than working out a solution for peaceful coexistence. what guarantee do we have that you will even contemplate peaceful coexistence with us the moment you have the power to get rid of us?" Yeah, in the near 1000 years Armenia may probably get that strong "to get rid of you". Isn't that rediculous, Ali? "4. no exaggaration, merely a statement of observable facts. all you have to do is look at the postings in this forum." Postings are different but you mainly deal with people that are polite and intelligent enough, right? Ali, unfortunately, one cannot find any turkish forum as civilized as this one. In all the turkish forums I attended armenians/armenia are insulted in an awfull manner. Anyway, we talk to you personally, to a person who is really appreciated in this forum (I think you know that) but sometimes you are insulted because people are very different here, and the topic is about extermination of the nation, so, don't be surprised, please. 5. if the phrases have been utterred, then why not bring them up? whatever i (and even those turks in other forums) utter is brought before me, and not infrequently in a distorted interpretation, then why shouldn't i? besides, i see it very relevant. after all "i hate the turks biologically. i wish they simply didn't exist" sounds very much like hitler on the jews, does it not? what if we have someone like gamavor as the president of roa one day, and what if that roa is strong, and say, in possession of nuclear power?" Please, don't go too far in this issue, we are discussing the AG recognition and probable land claims. I think if turkey has nuclear power the world will face more problems. Moreover, stop this game, please, the genocide of armenians were made in your country and how do you expect that there will be no armenian hating you? Sorry, but dealing with armenians in this problem you need to be very CAREFUL (I would do that if I were a turk,yes) because the emotions of people play an important role here. And if today you think that "somebody like gamavor" may become a president of roa then you either laugh on us or you are really far to be able to solve this problem. "can this not happen? do we not have the right to take preemptive measures to prevent this from happening? " You know your right better i guess. And we also may think that somebody like talaat or enver (lets not talk about hitler, please, we have other examples) becomes a president in your country god knows what will happen. Again, do not go too far, both sides have the same problem and both have something to lose. "after all, hitler did exist, as the ruler of an ostensibly civilised nation like germany, and nukes have been used, twice, one week apart, by another ostensibly civilised nation, the usa, against two non-military targets in japan, and that civilised nation still refuses to apologise for them. and all this was not that long ago, was it?" I would not mix all these issues. Japan was an agressor (I don't say US did a right thing though) and was very powerful. The problem of jews in germany is also very different(I don't want to start this because the topic may be changed as it usually happens). armenians in the empire were peaceful people (as they usually are unfortunately) and were one of the most cultural and they did not owe all the banking system in your country having a huge pressure on the politics and economy. Turks were solving problems they might face later - the land problems, and armenians were important who might have land claims. Today the situation is not very different as i understand because a very intelligent person in this forum says "what if land claims,..., what if gamavor as a president...., etc, etc". "do you know on what grounds the decision was taken to use nukes against japan and not germany? "the japanese do not belong to the same branch of humanity that we do (the germans did)." Sorry, I am not sure about that - it would not make sense to do against germany which lost the war with Soviets. "well, we don't belong to the same branch of humanity that you do. you are christians, and we muslims. and especially after 9/11 (whose effects will last very, very long), you can find enough people in christendom (especially in your part of the world) to justify such an act, and less than enough people to oppose it effectively. and you are so buddy-buddy with russia, full of (mostly stray) nukes, and not a nation known either for civilised behaviour nor any standards of morality." Does turkey take into account all this to whether or not recognise the AG?? "the bosnian genocide was allowed to go on for years in the middle of europe before any serious action was taken (by the usa, not europe) because i) the russians didn't allow any action against it, ii) europeans didn't want to risk life and limb, iii) europeans saw the serbs doing a dirty job for them (cleaning a part of europe of ottoman muslims), and iv) there was no oil. some 200,000 muslims were killed, there is an independent slovenia, serbia, croatia, macedonia now (and as far as i know montenegro is on its way to independence), but no independent bosnia: there is a bosnian croat federation." Right, and christians there have the opposite point of view. " no independent muslim state in europe. chechnya is being raped by the russians and there is no action (i don't mean words) in sight." Why do you bring all these examples? "wouldn't you be at least careful if you were a turk?" As I said I would. regards, Vahan

Ali, "you (some of you) say that it is absurd to hide behind land claims to avoid recognising ag, because the armenians either don't have land claims, or know that it is not a perceivable goal, and claim the only reason why i stick to that line is to avoid having the ag recognised, and then you state these claims here and elsewhere on this forum and start making plans as to how to pressure turkey from all sides with other nations' help." Right, and that's the result of the blockade, long-term AG denial and the absense of the desire among turks to "meet and solve the problem". "and what we have here is a question of feasibility (practicality), not morality. the ag is a criminal issue, recognising it personally is a moral issue, and getting it recognised by the state and the public is a practical issue. the state is not going to recognise it as long as it sees such a recognition as a potential threat to its territorial integrity. and the state does, whether you agree with it or not." Recognition is in some sense a diplomatic act (lets put aside the moral side). When two sides solve some problem and sign agreements each of them has own points,positions,etc. Probably, we are too far from such an agreement yet because even the historical fact is still denied! "some of you say (if i understand you correctly) that turkey has nothing to fear because the armenians are so weak. what then if one day you get stronger? or get a stronger ally? the reason why roa - and the more tactful of you - do not vociferously push the land issue NOW is because you realise that you don't have the power to carry it out to the desired conclusion NOW. simply put, you don't try NOW because you know you can't get, NOT YET." Ali, we are all aware that turks have the ability to solve a problem once and forever, but you will need to do that one more time in your history - the only difference is that you will need to do that in a correct diplomatic way this time and without a yatagan, that no other problems arise later even if armenians get stronger. "in addition, i see an attitude on your part as you sitting on a higher pedestal than us, that you are intrinsically right and we intrinsically wrong, an attitude that i do not cultivate toward you. so a turk who accepts your line is "civilised, improving, hopeful etc.", the more of it he accepts, the more so he is. he is a less bad turk who symphatises with your sufferings, a goodish one if he accepts the ag, a good one if he accepts the ag, apologies, and compensation, and an excellent one if he agreed to pack his stuff and go wherever he came from." Come on , Ali, what an exaggeration! "taking it further, he'd be best if he dropped dead! ("i hate the turks biologically. i wish they simply didn't exist" - gamavor)." Ali, lets not try to bring such phrases, i can also bring a lot from turkish forums about armenians and you will see the same and even much worse. Anyway, I agree that this is the most civilized forum and you expect more... Regards, Vahan

This topic of AG does not go further starting some moment in all the discussions unfortunately.(btw Arms and Turks) I am sorry but it looks silly because it seems everybody understands the issue but it's all useless when we approach the points of interests. Ali, you do not deny the fact of AG,you agree that Arms have the moral right to resettle the lands in Anatolia and so on (and i guess you are not alone in such opinion among Turks) but let me just point out that the end of all the discussions is pretty standard - no lands back, no recognition of AG unless we forget the territorial demands. Which obviously means interests are much more important and higher than the morality. You should not be surprised then that in such a situation the desire of ROA to strengthen the relations with Bulgaria, greece,etc (as mentioned by Hagarag) is natural. There is one thing which is so annoying in this issue - more than million people were killed and deported within YOUR empire but what we see today (~100 years later) is the denial of the fact that you in fact agree with(as i said before) simply because of the interests. "You" cannot and do not want to recognise the historical fact thinking it might cause problems later. Why do "you" think so if "your" sword is more powerful than "ours", if Turkish diplomacy is much stronger than Armenian, etc? Isn't that strange? I realise that this is all just a game (btw a stupid game about recognition of killings - game on the corpse) but probably you are not civilized enough players and we are not smart and strong enough players to solve this problem. Finally, this being the important part of the game: 4. i think i had stated clearly that what at least i am against is not armenians coming back to turkey,but a part of turkey being ceded to armenia or any other country. it is a basic desire to keep your territory intact. I know that you are not against their return on a geological time scale. Preferably after the diaspora completely disappeared,Armenia got depopulated further, Turkey reached a population of 250 million, and started running the EU." Since both sides understand this clearly do not even wish that even the recognition will take place because the players are not civilized or strong.Sorry, I would address the last to Armenians. regards, vahan

hey,Paul! how are you going to use that land?i think megri is better because it's a hot region(you may grow a lot of things there) and not windy comparing to Aparan. Vahan

"Correspondent The law will be applied only in the 2002-03 academic year. A law on military service will be passed in 2003 and will include this issue too." Why only 2002-2003? They want to see how it works? To be honest, I would not pay that amount - it's too much!

Mosjan, Indz tvum e, shat chisht mitk e!Yerkkagakaziutyun@ kberi erkir@ bargavachman, im karzikov, manavand banak@:Zankazogner unenal krknaki kagakaziutyun shat klinen ambogg ashkhariz, bayz mi problem ka - bann ayn e , vor shat erkrnerum, vorteg hayer@ aprum en, nuynpes ka partadir zarayutyan orenk, ev da ahakin problemner kstegzi mardkanz hamar - double citizenship=2 mandatory armies: Bayz ete orenk@ Haystanum lini aynpisin, vor nkati unena ays problem@, im karzikov, mardkanz mez mas@ kuzena Haykakan kagakaziutyun stanal ev chpoxel ayn: Shater@ urax klinen irenz erkrin zarael - ov banakum, ov dramov,ov el mek ayl kerp.. mi poqer havelum - yete iharke chem sxalvum - nayev iys nuyn dzevov kam n@manatip paymanerov arajarkel nayev iyn Hayerin ovqer tsankanum en Yerkqaraqatsiutyn@ yet tsankanum en nayev HAyastani Qaraqatsy - karor e ir profesyonal luman nerdni HAyastanum - tsarayi banakum - kam vjari ir tsarayutyan hamar, kam nerdni ir jamanak@ karj jamanakov. @est masnagitutyan@ - @entaniqi karrorutyan - tariqi - inch kaseq ?

Asking for contributions is not a bad idea I think. At least it is an opened act from country's officials. Yes, Armenia does not ask for that, she has some financial support for the army from the Diasporas but I am not sure that money is being spent for military proposes or for increaseing the army's standards of life. There were many cases when Armenian and Artsax military officials spent that contributions for other purposes - for their personal, for instanse. So, we don't ask for help, we have it and "know how to use it"..

Hi, Alpha I agree with what you are saying. I think 2-3000$ for those in the country and up to 2 times more for those outside Armenia would be a good idea. But as Mosjan posted it will shorten the "kashark" for many people including a number of doctors.So, one needs to go against the present-day establishment in the country to get all these things mentioned by you and all of us in this topic. Is it possible to do that? Vahan