sen_Vahan

In the same way many-many armenians get or try to get US citizenship writing letters against their own country, such as they were harrased there for different reasons. And that is all not true. This tells me that we are people with no sense of the state and a country, just a banch of ****** pretending to be the center of the universe. This is something that needs to be changed in our minds. Another example is those **** making protests against Armenian elections , etc in different countries.

Good Morning "INCHPES TE CHKAN ?? uremn yerb vostikan @ qez kangnatsnum yev *$ e vertnum da ok e ??" Mosjan, sa che miak problem@, aveli lurg baner el kan, bayz da chi nshanakum, vor petk e sksel prezident u parlament poxelov: Ed pog pokel@ shat aveli zargazaz e Vrastanum, Adrbeganum, Rusastanum,etc, bayz inch arats, gamanak e petk... I will follow Azat's suggestion to type in english. Once a broad middle class is formed in our country those stupid things will disappear, Mosjan, because the middle class citizen making the core of the society will pay taxes and it will be hard for any policemen or similar to ask for money at each step. I can bring an example - even in late 90s people in Moscow openning their small businesses were constantly harassed by "reket", police, tagayin, fire department,etc all asking money for no damn reason and people had to pay. But today the opinion is changed among folks and it is like "Tog porzen hankart gan u mi ban asen, es tax em mutsum u voch mi zibil el irank chen stana, orenk' im kogmn e". That was a little progress in Russia's capital but it did not start to work in provinces yet. Armenia is smaller than Moscow region and it would be much faster to develop. "te zavak@t tsarayum e isk dzer Xujuji tran voch vortev ira papan Xujujn e da ok e ??? ehhhh Vahan jan ka yev petqe lini yete uzum eq vro araj gnanq / " Haskanum em... But those xugug-mugug will lose their importance soon. Several people from Armenia Central Bank visiting Michigan recently explained me what is going on now. Those xugug-mugug,etc had relatively big amount of $ and influence but what happened is that some Russian Armenian businessmen came to Armenia having several if not more orders of magnitude more $ than those domestics, which obviously shifted the influence - xugugner' anzan 2rd plan. Now when the law for double citizenship is accepted businessmen having even more $ than those from Russia will go and invest there from US and Europe. (I emphasize 2 citizenship meaning that those will be mainly armenians) "Vahan yete mitq@t jisht haskatsa - uremn ov vor aprum e Hayaastanum - asxhatum - yerexa unenum - goyatevum na e ir yev iyd yerkri jakatagri ter@??? " Absolutely, diaspora must feel and understand its irrelevance unless it takes part in the social and political development of the country. You and me and similars , Mosjan, than came here during last 10 or 15 years are still emotionally bound to the homeland and it is hard for us to imagine that we are really nothing for the country that she lives and developes without us - sad but true. I would agree that maybe among those who left were probably bests as well but so what? Kocharyan had a conversation with my good tsanot-kharabagzi when Robert became the naxagah of NKR. He said that yes it is maybe rediculous that he became the president but that happened because those all xelazis and tagands left the country. And if some of those here today want to be redeveloped and get political influence there should better go buy some vodka and relax - poezd ushel... "iyd depkum inchu enq xosum @edhanrapes ?? yev mer spyurqi Hayer@ ardarev iravunq chunen ?? " Iharke chunen, ev inchu piti unenan, shat el vor hay en... Lets see, Mosjan, how things go when it is possible to get 2 citizeship, we'll see how diasporans take part in country's life. "tekuz yev mtatselu popoxutyan masin - de yete iydpes e - el inchu enq xosum - inchpes urrin yev bardin - amen mard iren baxten - ardaratsy em te voch ??? " That's exactly what the problem is - we only talk and we can talk why not - free country. Sooooorrrrry for a long talk but I may do that I am currently a diasporan although a ctizen of Armenia

SAS, I agree with you and I am glad somebody here is positive and optimistic! I don't understand why the current president should resign as one mentioned here i remember. To protect human rights, etc we can create institutions to work it out but not change the president or the parliament. alpha, I am talking to armenians (my relatives, friends, etc) from Armenia and what they say is the opposite to what you posted - it's very safe in the city and don't have to worry to walk outside at night. If you check how many people are assasinated in Washington D.C. every month you will find it enormously higher than that in Armenia. Moreover, it will be even higher than in criminal Moscow. So, lets not exaggerate. It is right and honest to rise the voice agianst the corruption or criminal in the country but wrong to start with changing the president. How I understand the change now is more problems with Artsax issue and who knows what changes in economy. As for the well known joke, it is very typical to armenians to put differences among ourselves which constantly devides and subdevides people. Inch verabervum e "protestnerin" ev dimumnerin depi ayl erkrneri despannerin, da ugaki avelord ban e, inch karik ka varkabekel erkir@, namanavand vor ches gtnvum erkrum: Herviz hesht e khosel@, bayz aregakin petk e motikiz nayel

Sorry for the previous post, my comp was playing a game with me Mosjan, Mez mets popoxutyunner petk chen, du mi hamematir ko himikva aprelu teg@ Hayastani het, tarber baner en: Hayastanum konkret popoxutyunner en tegi unenum amen tari, gyugatntesutyun@ zarganum e kamaz-kamaz (voch bolor regionnerum zavok srti) aveli u aveli nermutsumner kan, mets capital e erkir galis tarber anhatneri kogmiz - Rusastani ev ayl erkrneri hay mezaharustneriz, hima hin Soveti gamanakva gortsaranner@, vor Levoni orok kandvel ein, bazvum en noriz, mardik sksum en ashxatel! Ch kareli teragnahatel mer erkir@, popoxutyunner kan depi lav@, mardik hima el arargva pes chen lkum erkir@, @ndhakarak@, ov urish tegerum arndznapes chi karoganum harstanal gnum e het Hayastan: Nor tsragrer kan usanogneri hamar Evropa, US gnalu sovorelu hamar, gahelutyun@ kich-kich ashxuganum e: Iharke, hamematel Californiai het voch mi ban chi kareli, bayz mardik aprum en, ashxatum en, erexa en unenum,ev ayls: Vonz vor menk enk amen or aravot shut ver kenum u gnum ashxatanki aysteg, nuynpes hazaravor mardik Hayastanum en anum - shut ver en kenum ev shat ashxatum u mezniz el kich pog en stanum, bayz mnum en, durs chen galis erkriz: Ay , te ov e erkir@ poxum u lavaznum, bayz voch menk aystegiz: Isk shat spyurkahayer, ibr uzenalov popoxel erkir@, miayn problem en stegzum: Petk e gnal Hayastan, ete voch aprelu, gone gamanakavor, mi amsov, erku amsov,etc: Ete spyrkiz shat mardik an@ndhat gnan Hayastan, tegum vichak@ aveli klavana, kani vor tegaziner@ ushadrutyun en darznum ayl erkrneriz ekaz zargazaz hayerin: Vonz kareli e mi harvatsov ktruk popoxutyunner uzenal erkrum, da miayn kvatazni vichak@: Menk tenz arag zargazog chenk, petk e kamaz shargvel - tishe edesh', dal'she budesh'!

M "Yerazanq e sa yev I-tsavoq srty chi patahelu mot apaayum, popoxutyuner en petq yev mets popoxutyuner, miyayn przident kam varchapet poxelov chi lutsvelu iys hartser@ - chi veranalu Maxnoneri yev Ataman-burnashneri gortsuneyutyun@ Hayastanum. sakayn hnaravor e - arachin@ jorovurd@ inq@ pete patrast lini popoxutyan - petqe sksel jorovrdits. yete jorovurd@ chhaskana te i nchne anum sxal vochinch el chi poxvi. petq e shat baner poxel / mtatselakerp / sovorutyuner. sakayn arachin@ petqe lutsum gtnel - te Darman chunes verqit dnelu - toromats hin Yezan lezun aveli husali e, tekuz yev dandar sakayn k@buji poqer verq@, yev huys dnel vor xndzori kerev@ karror e aveli lav bujel qani vor xndzor@ "tsarits" heru chi @enknum urraki tsnorq, qano vro tsar@ iylevs chka, "yeranakn" el shat shut e popxvum, "katsini" mek harvatsov voch miyayn korqi tsarer@ k@nknen - migutse nayev amborj iygin, enpes vor xndzori vra huys dnel@ der jisjt che, na der kanach e petqe hasunana, havaqi ir mej amen anhrajets yev pitani "vitaminer" nor na karror e poxantsel iyn mez. enpes vor yekek mi nor iygi tnkenq - lini ta NY lini da pariz lini da Yerevan kam Stepanakert - mi nor serund - ashxatenq mez vra - qani vor spyurq te Hayreniq miyevnun e Hye enq / yete menq inqners chpoxenq mez - karevor che te inch xndzor - meke tarberutyun chi talu tekuz yev tsar@ armatnerov el utes. harts@ iys e - patrast e ardyoq mer azg@ popoxvelu / patrast e targelu ir varemi sovorutyuner@ kasharelu yev Takits gortsarqner anelu ? patrast e ardyoq iyn Anhat@ vor araj tani iys azg@ - ??? - yete der voch uremn petqe ashatanenq per vra - yev iyd janaparhin mez shat en petq galu Mj yve SAS - Vahan yev Fedi - Harout yev iharke Nairi ~~~ petqe hashvi arnel bolori kartsiqner@ ~~~~~ te sxal em aseq ~ te shat em sxalvum aveli shut aseq kam yes tsndel em - kam el es monitori radiatsyan arden urreris vra azduma sarsapeli yev tsnorqner em durs talis.

Menak chasek, es Vahan@ eli anpoch gdali nman mech @nkav

lady of grace, Bazi Harutiz u Azatiz es karog ei linel lav teknatsu Tgerk, bayz inchi masin a xosk@? Mek a , inch el lini, es lav teknazu em

Harut, Lav kliner, vor gone mi xumb ays forumum Haystaniz liner u hima masnakzer ays xosakzutyan@: Ayn , inch menk enk xosum aysteg, gtnvelov Americayum, voch mi nshanakutyun chuni, kani vor herviz enk nayum: Menk ekel enk hzor u zarghazog erkir, "xelk enk havakel" u uzum enk ibr Hayastanum mi ban poxel: Bayz poxogner@ nrank en, vor aysor erkrum en gtnvum u vorkan karum en aynkan el poxum en u lavaznum: Ete menk chenk karum mi banov ognel kam ayd prozesin masnakiz linel, avali lav e sus mnank u chporzenk hegashrgel erkir@: Petk e erkrum aprel u nra problemnerov amen or ver kenal, gnal ashxatanki ev ayln... Tesnenk, Hayastani gekavarutyun@ voroshum knduni krknaki kagakaziutyan hamar, u heto kereva, te menk inchkanov drakan klinenk erkri hamar: Isk aysor Hayastan@ gtnvelov pak drutyan meg aveli lav e zarganum , kanz mer harevanner@...

alpha, "I see human happiness in a state where every citizen’s right is protected by the state. I don’t see a citizen as a servant to the state apparatus and bureaucracy, I see the opposite. " Laws, human rights or citizen's rights, etc are all for poor people and for the middle class maximum. Little by little Armenia will get to the point when there will be several classes and hopefully a broad middle class and that's when the role of laws will become more valuable and important. But even at that time the same laws will "work in a different manner" for the highest class. Germany or the US are not exclusions here. Although I do appreciate the intelligence of Armenian people but it will take time for the ottomanized , sovietized and whateverized people in our country (I don't consider myself to be an exclusion) to develop a state of respect to citizens' rights. "State guarantees people’s pursuit of life and happiness." It is good you follow and hold that truth "in current Armenia life can be taken in center of Yerevan and go unpunished)." Again, in present day great country US's capital life can be taken... And no punishment very often. And among such places are the same Moscow, Roma, etc. " World history has shown that it’s possible to build a country where it’s created for the people and by the people. People in these countries have prospered and have built stable and healthy societies. " I like generalizations But not all those countries you talk about still exist. So, the end is going to be the same for all, so, lets not hurry, Armenia will have a bright future. Kamaz kshek dzier@ "Human rights, democracy, freedom those are not myths, but achievable goals. " One has the freedom in an extent he/she thinks to have. "No freedom" you can frequently listen from japanese. As for democracy it will have its historical end and since we are a kind of late in that route lets not just hurry to catch the train on its way to the very end. "The excuse that Armenia is a newly independent country shouldn’t give anyone a green light to suppress people’s freedom." Yes, that's an excuse and a very serious one. Comparing Latvia ot Litva with Armenia don't forget also to compare our peoples and the menthalities. "In all civilized elections people do not elect a person, “vozhd’”, but they elect a political ideology that will provide the best guarantees to its happiness and fruitful life." Yes, and in Armenia people had such great choices that they went and elected the "vozhd" Kocharian. “Paronayq inchi masin eq vi&um? Hayastanum teghi unecan naxagahakan @ntrutyunner yev @ntrvec... Qocharyan@! SA PAST E!!!” Let me make a little correction to your statement. The fraudulent presidential elections that were conducted in Armenia resulted in coup d’etat, and refusal of the incumbent president to honorably leave his post. Do you want us to respect the organizer of coup d’etat? I can’t?! I have more demanding standards from Armenian authorities. " So, what you gonna do? “Mite, aveli irates dirqoroshum chi BAROYAPES ajakcel Hayastani Naxagahin” What kind of morality can you refer to when the whole electoral process was mired with fraudulence? " Can you prove it? "Sev_vahan, I am trying to be optimistic, but blind optimism is not going to solve our problems." Optimism in minds gives a coherence in the attitude and whenever coherent people achieve more. This is not a blindness. "Let’s be realistic and face the problems caused by the dictatorial regime in Armenia. If you want to believe the state propaganda of Armenia we can come to the conclusion that because of the enormous economic growth and improvement of living conditions the emigration from Armenia is continuing at ever increasing rate." Well, this is simply not true. The emigration rate is DEcreasing not INcreasing. There is no such emigration now as in the beginning of the 90s or even around 1997,8. Moreover, it is a common knowledge that a number of families go back to Armenia from Russia. And the rate of emigration was negative in the last months, more poeple came to Armenia than left. Being isolated btw mainly islamic countries Armenia has the best living conditions compared to Azerbaijan or Georgia although those states have ports/sea, border with Russia and much more natural and human resources.

Steve who bells the cat, Why don't you stop your emotional storm here which makes no sense? It seems you are close to the boiling point... "But you (and the likes of Kocharian) would not have a clue about what I am talking about here." I am afraid you yourself do not have a clue what a crap you are talking. Take a cold shower that may help.

alpha, "Current leadership has made fundamental mistakes, which has caused in the past 2-3 years both internal and external dissatisfactions. That’s another topic which I am open to discuss." I am not an expert in this , would you please tell me what are those fundamental mistakes? I think the current leadership does not give up the Artsax issue and did not which is great in my opinion. Or you think they are not the ones who decides/determines the way for Artsax problem to go. Do you mean the mistakes in economical development of the country? Thanks, Vahan

What action, MJ, what do you mean?

Right you are, Harut! So, the diaspora sooner or later will disappear or better to say will become american/native. And would we worry so much about diasporan armenians? Why?Anyway they are going to disappear, they are not relevant for Armenia, don't make sense. "Cut the loses" as someone said in this forum? Yes, do, that's healthy. But I am sure Armenians from certain places will not agree. Bostonians , for example. This was to make your saying even bitter. But reality is that Armenia needs people, more people, better educated, bright and diaspora has many. I think we need you guys, not your Armenian student organizations,Armenian studies, etc. Armenia needs people like you in homeland but not here. Go there,travel,take part in country's life, get citizenship,create some organizations and programs where you can teach English for students/kids in Armenia. Educate us there but nit here.

"Irakanum Demertcjany havaqel er 50%-ic avelin ev yst eutjan ancatc er, isk qocharjany erevi haziv 4 kam 5-rd texum liner." Irakanutyun@ mekn e, bayz hazar u mi kartsik: Vortegiz ays mard@ giti, vor Demirchyan@ 50% er havakel? Ba ed "European controllers" inchov en zbagvats, vor senz baner en katarvum?

I am thinking about the plans and projects that the opposition have if it wins the elections. I am an armenian citizen thinking whom to vote for and realistically there's not much I can do - vote for either of them, not to vote or against everybody. I am in the US and probably not very well aware of what is going on in Homeland. But I know one thing - Artsax war was won, present authorities keep that land by all means, I don't know what will happen if another group of people comes to rule, especially, when that group has no certain economic and military strategy for the country. Moreover, nothing is known about Demirchyan except that he is the son of his famous father. So, in the situation that I am now (and many-many other citizens of Armenia) makes me chose Kocharyan or not to chose any of them. Artsax and the economic growth of the country are the most important things today and I am not sure changing the president in this situation will help either one. As far as the corruptness is concerned, in my opinion nothing will change if the president is Demirchyan tomorrow.

Elchin, As it is said in Russia "poka tebya ne zatoptali" , you had better keep going in the direction you started with. So, you are voting for peace? What bases? Any ideas? It will be a better discussion than bringing some bastardized authors' books(most likely propaganda rather than real facts) to this forum. I am interested to know how succesfull you were trying to vote for peace among Azeris. Would you please share that information with us. This way maybe more productive than talking about the lost war. WAR but not a massacre or genocide, keep this in mind, please. Vahan

Elchin, I would like to know Azeris' opinion. Can you please provide us with some information about that?

Can I buy CDs online and where? Thanks, Vahan

Du voroshir, te inch kstazvi:) Bayz ete vornoz u mugam chi, ankap u anbovandak tekstov, uremn dgvar e rabiz anvanel Du karog rabiz anvanel amen ban, inch zatsrorak e, bayz es konkret rabiz em anvanum ayn, inch aysor taratsvaz e hayeri meg - datark vornoz, himar mugamner, mi xoskov, rabizutyun:

Mosjan, Shvi nvagog gyugazin havanakan e gogovrdakan nvagi So?

Chisht es, Harut jan, banvor@ inch eragshtutyun karog e grel? rabiz bar@ hima mikich urish nshanakutyun uni, misht rabiz aselov haskanum en henz nuyn Aram, Tata, Boka, Harut (sorry ), etc. Ko tarberak@ vat@ chi, bayz chei asi, te anvorak Bethoven nvagog@ rabiz e

Mosjan, You might be a good idealist But lets put things as they are, lets be realistic. Aysor, amen teg (hamarya amen) xanutnerum haykakan eragshtutyun nshanakum e rabiz, bayz voch Komitas kam Sheram: Why??? Inch en gahelneri mets mas@ lsum Hayastanum kam erkriz durs? Rabiz: Why??? I am a foreigner and would like to buy Armenian music CDs, I am going to the stores and see what? What would I think? Ok, aha, this is Armenian music, hmm, what's the difference then btw that and Turkish or Iranian? Now, I decided to talk to an Armenian guy about their music, so, I hear what form him/her? So, what is my conclusion then? You are wrong if you think a foreigner will go and investigate the Armenian national folk,etc. No, a vivid communication with people will form his opinion. We form other's opinion about our music which is not the rabiz. Rabiz@ @ndamen@ mi datark xarnurd e: Chem kartsum, te xoselov menk ban kpoxenk , bayz charnelov rabiz u chlselov karog enk: And how educated the youth is today? What they know except rabiz heros? Inch du anvanum es zulal haykakan petk e voch miayn pahpanel, ayl zargaznel: Vor shat pahpanes poshi knsti vran: Bayz aysor zarganum e rabiz@...

Mosjan, Chgitem , te ov inchkan mard khavaki hamergin, bayz da zuzanish che: Aysinkn, zuzanish e bayz voch miaynergchi/katarogi, bayz naev lsogi.Inchkan lsogi makardak@ kzes, aynkan el shat e skselu apush anmakardak baner lsel: Shater@ karog en neganal, bayz Tatan ev nshvats ergichner' ayd zuzakum en Goyutyun uni haykakn lad (eragshtakan), shat hachax nerka e ekegezakan eragshtutyunum,Komitas, Sayat-Nova, Givani, tarber pareri,etc. Ete mikich lad@ pahum es u sksum es arevelakan motivner avelaznel - turkakan,parskakan,arabakan, darnum e rabiz (da en himnakanum rabiz anvanum): Voch Aram@ voch el Tatan irenziz ban chen nerkayaznum vorpes ergichner kam eragishner, ugaki @ndhanur makardak@ aynkan e igel, vor nranz arden dasakan en hamarum u nor durs ekaz rabiznerin hamematum en nranz het: Hagord kayl@ klini rabiz ergi/pari dprozner bazel@ u rabizin sovoreznel@: Come on, man, you don't need to define that crap, it is obvious that alternatives for that stupid music exist but not supported by the majorities.

It seems there are two strong candidates - Kocharyan and Demirchyan (the son) who have most chances.(this is just an apinion of people I talk to) Kocharyan promises to accept a law for double citizenship if he is reelected. Everybody being against the reelection of Kocharyan says Kocharyan will win anyway. He is being strongly "advertised" in Russia. I think to win the votes of Moscow Armenians he invited Moscow's Major Lugkov to Erevan and gave him some prize Now Moscow Armenians say that the attitude towards Armenians in the city became better (?). They say policemen are nicer now when stop them to check documents as usual. What worries many people about this presidental elections is that what's going to happen with Artsax and its status if somebody but not Kocharyan is reelected.

"vorpes dzevavorvats banasteghts ( ), yes chem qnnarkum im glukhgortsotsner@, ayl toghnum em @ntertsoghis ardar datin: " De @nterzogn el es em u asum em, vor es mer Harut@ (aysinkn, metsn banastegz@) iskakan sadomasohist e Bayz de , vor es el ko @nterzogn em, uremn es el mi arandznapes ....... De lav, inch asem, barov mnas, stegtsagorts Harut @ntertsaraniz tsavi arjani, Vahan