sen_Vahan

Dear Ara, These last posts make me think that they serve as answers to the latest "hot" thread about armenian xenophobia. They really explain what we are in practice. Recently a new student here asked me to explain what the decoherence in molecules is. I tried to do that somehow but saw some difficulty to be understood. Then I turned to armenians and started to give examples of decoherence (a very fast one!) among our people and their thoughts. She got me As you see, the thread was soon "converted" to personal insults although some coherence might be able to happen. Ed khelkov el uzum enk inch vor bani hasnel...

Sen_Vahan, Are these the only alternatives available to us? " MJ, You may have some more in a place where you are now. About alternatives: maybe we need one but not in this forum but in a broader perspective. One way is to recon-st territories - unreal in my opinion, but historically proved to be the best way.

"Nice answer Vahan. You gave the right answer but you did not give the reason. Why are weak? Is it we are weak because we are xenophobic or are we xenophobic because we are weak? Is it the chicken or the egg? Which came first? Until and unless we get off of our mets voriks and do something about it, until we stop resting on our laurels (we don't have many), until we stop believing what our semi educated and uneducated gurus have to say about our culture, history and destiny, until we take our destiny in our own hands and stop relying on the others including but not limited to Yehova and Hisus (they seem to have better things to do in TelAviv and other places) WE WILL STAY WEAK. " Hargeli Arpa, I really agree with you but what one can say today is that Armenians are weak. What is the reason anyway? It's hard for me to say what but I think because we were devided and then devided again and then subdevided by great masters such as Turks, Persians or Byzantians. Yes, we appeared to be not strong and smart enough to resist or act like them. The problem is that a nation left without a wise leadership for centuries can only count on preserving but not blossoming. We are so strongly subdevided that each armenian "becomes" a philosopher and a "politician" and Napoleon at last. Yes, more often a concrete armenian is very strong and smart and rich but the coherence is lost btw our people, it was lost who knows in which century. We are acting like separate bodies with no agreement btw each other. (You are educated in western tradition and I am in eastern, some in middle eastern, etc.) We don't have any symbol or idea or philosophy/religion gathering us together,how can we talk about blossoming then? Recently I was reading V.Rosanov's "Voyna 1914 goda i Russkoe Vozrogdenie"(the war of 1914 and russian reneissance) where I found a very clever phrase like: "there are nations which can live as a state (gosudarstvenno),it's a special gift of God, but there are also others that can never do that. But once peaceful conditions are created for them they will create a wonderful culture and will shine by all means"(sorry, the translation does not give exactly what was said but anyway...) It seems to me that this is true for armenians. Vahan

"Dear SV, I truly don't understand what you are saying. What territories are you talking about? " Those that Arpa calls being ours before:"We are sitting on a piece of barren rock ( and please don't correct me, I have been to Yerevan Province and I know what I am saying)that is so sahky that it can topple anyday while our neighbors are sitting on the worlds most luxurious piece of real estate that belonged to us one time. They are growing exponentially both in numbers, force and economy... " "And if something is unreal, how can it be an alternative?" It is an always-true historical alternative but unreal in my opinion, unreal for us to achieve nowdays. Clear? Just in my opinion. "And where I live now, I think there are huge numbers of alternatives. I am even ready to share some of them with you. Interested? " No , thanks, help yourself

"We are faced with two choices: either slowly disappearing or moving to Armenia." Right you are, Boghos, and in Armenia we can assimilate but not be ass-ed. Or the other way is to accept judaism which i think Arpa would not be happy to do neither would I.

"No it is not a fruit or anything. Prunus Armeniaca is. It is Apricot." Nice introduction "Phobia Armeniaca means Armenian Fear, and sometimes depending on the context it may also mean Armenian Hatred." Davay seychas zanovo sozdavat' velosiped "Does that mean we are cowards? You be the judge!" What means to be cowards? "There have been many debates about intermarriage, assimilation and alienation on this forum. Nothing new. This debate may as well go all the way to time of Haik and Ara. It has not changed an iota. " Simply not true, at least not enough arguments "The outcome is always; Armenians better not marry otars, not get assimilated. FEAR!!! " For the nation mainly living outside homeland that's important. No? "Understandable, if one considers what cowards we are. How we talk from a position of weakness rather than a position of strength." is that possible because we are weak? "BTW,. there are those among us that claim Armenians created the world and that we make it spin around the sun. Is that why Armenians don't have to screw a light bulb in as they can just stand still and let the spinning globe do the job?!! However, we must also make sure that the world spins clockwise otherwise the light bulb will be unscrewed." nice! "I will make this as succinct as possible." lets see "Many a correspondent here and since the dawn of the universe has expressed fear and concern about intermarriage and every nuance thereof. They are justified . They have a reason to be afraid. After all they seem to know our history. They know that every time we had contact with foreigners we ended up as the losers. When we had intercouse(please look up the definition, it does not necessarily mean serayin haraberuyun, often just haraberutyun). When we had to do with the Persians no Persian became/converted to Armenian. How many Armenians became Persian? When we had to do with the Greeks no Greek became Armenian. How many Armenians became Greks? When we had intercourse with the Byzantines how of them became Armenian? How many Armenians became Byzantine? (You may find a list of Byzantine Emperors of Armenian ancestry). How many Romans converted to Armenian? How many Arabs thought it was better to be an Armenian? The list goes on. Did I leave anybody out? Oh, yes, I did. How many Turks embraced Armenianism? How many visa versa?" Because we are the weak. WHY??? See above "As promised, I will only pose the questions and let our ethnologists and philosophers furnish the answer. Why is an itremarriage considered a net loss rather than a gain? Have we not heard the old adage when a father of the bride says; "I have not lost a daughter, I have gained a son (in law)? When is the last time an otar spouse of an Armenian became an Armenian, rather than the Armenian spouse pushed out and forced to join the ranks of his/her otar spouse?" more that enough examples in Armenia. (many russians, assyrians, greeks became armenians). You cannot assimilate outside your home country but can be only assimilated. It happens to all nations I guess. Except probably jews but i don't know who the hell they are, no home, no definition. "Why? When is the last time we introduced our otar spouse even after 50 years of marriage as an Armenian and not "meet Sheila/Sean", he/she is Irish? When is the last time our institutions wholeheartedly welcomed an otar spouse as "harazat child"?" Arms are a small nation. Do you want them to grow? Why not to go and recon-st a lot of lands back? "Why!!! What are we afraid of?" Not strong enough. Probably we need not christianity then but "bazmazek, bazmazek, bazmazek, astzo vordik"(?)

"I also believe that Abraham existed. Well the part about him being Armenian? It was a joke, but to come think of it, if you read the Bible it says that Abraham was from Ur as in Urartu?" So be it, why not. but wasn't that Ur of Khaldea? "I am just questioning don’t be mad. And if the Bible is a Jewish propaganda then why they didn’t say that Noah’s ark stopped on the mount of Zion instead of Ararat?" Probably because the story was cheated and stolen from an armenian one. "And if the whole world was dead & Noah & his family survived well they did start from Ararat didn’t they? one of the Noahs sons name was Shem who had many sons including Aram. So can’t there be a possibility that something started from Armenia?" Well, if the new world started form Armenia then yes, but did it? Why don't you climb to Ararat's top to check it? By the way, did the world start with Babeli's King family? Or maybe it did start somewhere in Mexico? So, are believing in God or the written crap?Sorry if i insult you, had no intention.

"One again to understand what a "chuvinist" is go to my profile and read my posts. As to Komitas and others. How many radio stations play his music? How many otars have you introduced to his music? Most of my otar friends know him and his music through me. I make a point to play it for them." Arpa jan, All my chinese friends now know about Komitas and heard his music in his own performance even. They even know that their armenian friend likes "Krunk", "Hov Arek, Sarer jan"

Much better, thanks

"Spectacular domination's first priority is to eradicate historical knowledge in general; beginning with just about all rational infirmation and commentary on the most recent past...". Lets wait for Ali to sing the old song about how tolerant and progressive the modern Turkish State is. bastards....

"If from one milion Armenians in the USA we can raise FIVE MILION DOLLERS in one day to help Armenia and Artsakh ...:" Is this true? When did it happen? P.S. Hovsep, not "Mishd hayenk" but "misht hay enk"

"at last, as the saying goes: "kheloqner@ harmarvum en ashkharhin, himarner@ ashkharhn en irents harmaretsnum." but on the other hand, at the end "himarner@" are the ones happy and satisfied." I am not sure himarner' irenz en harmareznum ashxarh@. harmareznelu hamar petk e khelk ev bazki ug: And to have a saying in the world one needs not only a brain in the head but also a strong sword(at least).

im kartsikov, erkrin anhragesht en mardik: Tagandavor mardik an'ndhat durs en galis erkriz, ev voch mi zargazum chi karog linel nman paymannerum: Petk en ashxatateger, petk e mardkayin sharg, bayz ays bolor' irakanaznelu hamar petk e chisht kagakakanutyun Anhat' vochinch el chi karog anel bazi dram ugarkeluz Bayz da real ognutyun chi

"What can we think of, what can we come up with, what can we do... to help Armenia get on it's feet, to become a strong and healthy nation." I have no idea. Well, I have some as well as many other people do have, but they may be unrealistic to achieve. How do i see this thing is that those people in Armenia need the help since they are "under pressure" - some help for them not to leave the country any more, to have jobs, not to see the corruption in every level of life, etc. What can we do or how can those outside Armenia give a hand? What I or my parents did untill now was helping our relatives or neighbours in Armenia in terms of money but this is not a serious help. And i think this is what most of the diasporans do - they send money or something else which in fact does not help Armenia a lot because of the corrupted structures there(city beautification is not going to increase the level of life). So, I think one way to help is to write, read,talk about Armenia, bring other people's attention closer to her and travel to Armenia a lot

"I dont know if I agree with definition of "utterly incomprehensible", as I absolutely loved it, as I love ALL Tarkovsky movies for their philosophy, photography and incredible acts. Long doesnt mean boring, does it?" Yeah, i also heard about the new one yesterday and i am curious to watch it. I agree about Tarkovsky and think that along with Paraganov he was one of the most fascinating film makers in Soviet Union, very phiosophical. by the way, there is a place in Moscow called "Muzey Kino" where one can watch Paraganov's, tarkovsky's, Fellini's, etc films every year, each of them has a week or two during the year.

Inquisitor

Torkvemada (Torkemada) Spanish Inquisitror in the Middle Ages.(Do you remember Inkviziziya? Putting peole into the fire for their ideas) So, many people had that fatum to appear in the fire! (including those making science , and talking against God and Pope) Tenz baner....

We miss Torkvemada here!!!

Ara, So much about Armenians, so many things about the charecter.... Why don't you go to Armenia some time? Alishan, as I know, did not go either but I see and feel something unhealthy in that. vahan

"... I mean, there is other things in science other than comps. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What? Shame on you! How dare you speak such profane words? For the second time this week, I have been angered beyond belief!!! " . Girls, Sip, girls, they are also a part of science

"hello. is it me you're looking for?" Yes , honey

Torontonian, I have been in toronto once and want to say that girls there are pretty nice How come you didn't find the one made for you? Be more optimistic, ask Sip or Harut how to solve that problem

Sip jan, Gamanak' ekel a , piti amusnanas uzum es, te che, kap chuni, vor Movses' asum a , uremn mi ban giti! Inchkan kareli a Azat man gal (ooooops, what did i say.. no, no, I am still talking to you, Sip)

Torontonian, Hmmm... Sorry, i really thought you were a guy. To be serious I did not yet but i am sure I will meet, otherwise life would be very hard. But in general it is a great pleasure to think that "all are made for me" Vahan

Sip jan, you can find a lot about the principles of quantum computing here: http://www.qubit.org/oldsite/Intros_Tuts.html