sen_Vahan

"All Turks, including the unborn, are bloodthirsty barbarians." Sorry, but it seems that you talk in the name of all the Armenians. Armenians thinking in that way are in minority. "Jews are Nazis and Arabs their Jews." ??? "Americans are the source of all evil." ??? "The serpent in the Garden of Eden was a CIA agent." Interesting... We are very progressive in our thoughts... "All politicians are corrupt except our own." Oh, no. Is that Canadian Armenian's opinion? Vahan

Harut jan, noriz kneres , vor gamanakin chem patasxanum, hima uggaki Moskvayum em, Inet shat kich em durs galis. Aystegiz xosk chem talis, bayz henz gam LA anpayman nverov... Bayz chgitem, te erb LA kgam... Der California chem egel, petk e ayd sxal' uggel... Vahan

Harut jan! Kneres , vor ushazumov, bayz srtanz shnorhavorum em !!! ... Zankanum em amenayn barik ev aroggutyun.. Vahan P.S. a question to MosJan: Who is that person playing duduk in Live365 - Unknown - Track 4 (7)?? That's a wonderful thing!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I have been to Yerevan and to the Armenian Quarter of Jerusalem, as well as Athens Armenian community and throughout France. But I have never been to Moscow. If the men in Moscow like it so much, then some Armenian men are a bunch of hypocrites, wanting virgin wives but frequenting prostitutes. " Hagarag, in most cases I don't agree with you, but this is really a good point. I agree about arm guys wanting virgin wives and frequenting prostitutes. On the other hand, most of them (most of us) find non-armenian girls (for example, in Moscow) more attractive and that's probably the reason why they (not we... ) hang out with other girls. The problem is that arm guys and girls come to Moscow from Armenia with own traditions and way of thinking and appear in a completely different cultural (behavoral) place. Of course, an arm guy wants to hang out with a nice girl from Moscow. As for an arm girl, she is thought to "keep herself" for only one man. In this sense, Arm girls turn out to be more traditional and morally rigid than guys ... At least in most cases. So, in my opinion, how arm girls behave today in diaspora mainly depends on us - arm guys. Vahan

"No Hagarag jan, it is not for me. I just wanted to get the number to pass it on to Harut." .... hagarag jan, you have not been to Moscow.... In that city you can find soooooo many girls behaving like that.... By the way, Armenian guys in Moscow like it very much.... As for Arm girls, they do not! Axgikner unenk, ashxar' chuni! BA!?!? (Harut, sorry for the plagiarism. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED)

Weeeeeeeeeeeeell, it was just an example.... I mean people are different, so are the arm girls... Another thing is that alcohol is not good for everybody.... I also met an armenian girl yesterday (i met her first time) in Ann Arbor. She is from Erevan, and was very - very nice, beautiful! See.... Vahan

"I KNOW YOU AND YOUR LIKES.YOU ARE FROM THE MINOROTY THAT BURIED THE ARMENIAN FLAG FOR MORE THAN 75 YEARS.AND NOW SUDDENLY YOU ARE A TRUE ARMENIAN.YOU BROWN NOSE THE SOVIATE UNION.AND NEVER HAVE FAITH THAT WE CAN HAVE AN INDEPENDENT STATE.I AM GLADE THAT WE DID NOT LISTEN TO YOU AND YOUR LIKES.OR ELSE EVEN ARTSAKH WAS LOST.THANK YOU.YOU ARE SWIMING AGAINST THE TIDLE. " Armenian independence enjoy mainly those who are far from the homeland, but not those living there. Are you living in the US or Armenia now? have you ever lived in Armenia? Great patriotism is building a great country and living there without counting who is 1/4 or 1/8 huyn or asori.

Aaaaaaaaa. Thank you, Harut! How did you get them, guys? did anybody watch that movie?

"To be on the side of the Arabs today means to place oneself on a slippery slope leading to a swamp of despotism, oppression, tribalism, ignorance, fanaticism, terrorism, anti-feminism, dogmatism, intolerance, theocracy and medievalism – all of which have been rejected by both the East and the West and all progressive nations around the world. And sure enough, pro-Arab Armenians today are insensitive to the abuses of our own mini-despots and neo-commissars or are willing to accept them as inevitable facts of life, and by refusing to share the loathing and rage of all freedom-loving people against all forms of authoritarian power structures, they make themselves contemptible in the eyes of the world. " You can be against Arabs or Jews today but can you support the killings of children? And how do you like a war where one fires from a gun and others at the same time take photos right in front of that, running around the soldiers? "The show must go on!" "To assert Ariel Sharon is a murderer of innocent civilians and a war criminal is also to imply that so are all military leaders and conquerors from Alexander the Great to Napoleon, and from Dikran the Great to General Antranik (who has also been accused by the Azeris of ethnic cleansing), all of whom are idolized by some and hated but sometimes also grudgingly admired by others." Good comparison - Sharon and Napoleon! Were you serious about that? "I doubt if there is a single Palestinian today who doesn't think "If only Arafat were more like Sharon," or better, "If only Arafat were a winner rather than a perennial loser, even if by being a winner it meant massacring a few hundred or thousand or million Jews!" All right then, what is your position? It seems pretty fluid. "To say that there are no progressive Arabs is to imply that all Arabs are subservient dupes. Progressive Arabs may be a silent minority today (very much like progressive Armenians) but sooner or later they are destined to be the majority for the simple reason that you cannot arrest the advance of history. Arab leaders are fully aware of this fact. They know that sooner or later they will share the fate of French kings, Russians czars, Egyptian Farouks, Soviet commissars, Italian Duces, Nazi fuhrers, and despots in general. They teach their children to chant "Death to the Jews and the USA" because they want to postpone the day when Arabs will see the light, unite and chant DEATH TO DESPOTS! and DEATH TO BLOODSUCKERS!" Generalization is a philosophical thing but yours does not go further than sayings like French kings, Russian Czars, Nazi fuhrers are all the same BLOODSUCKERS and DESPOTS. But if it's true then who is Ariel Sharon?

"I agree with every word both of you say. But the point is that Europeans are aware of what their ancestors did, and I'm sure you know better than me the special legislation and other measures taken to protect the native American heritage. " Turks are also aware of what their ancestors did with domestic Armenians. Denial is another thing. "And besides, parallels are not appropriate from a cultural point of view. In the first instance those who were perceived "civilized" were killing those who were "not-civilized", and in the Armenian, Greek and European case in general, was the opposite.European settlers brought religious freedom and industrial growth, Ottomans brought destruction,enslavement, and retardation for the subject nations. " That's true. But lets not forget that by the end of 19th century even Turks themselves did not have such a rich literature as Armenians did. I do not think Turks brought only disaater and despoty. Vahan

Nothing is wrong with american education I guess. It is the same question as to ask: did europeans know that they were "uninvited guests" in America? Can you proove today's americans that their grandgrandpas were wrong killing domestic Indians?

What pictures are these , guys?

"i think it is right for a victim to hate his victimizer. Because if he loved his victimizer, he would also love his status as victim. Absurd!" As well as for the vixtimizer to hate the victim otherwise he would not victimize.Obvious. So, then again, why the victims and victimizers hate each other? jews/Germans,Armenians/Turks,... "The Jews were hated because they could never share the nationalism of their country of adoption, and because to do so would mean for a Jew (in France, for example) to hate a Jew in Germany." There is one problem: the hosts also did not share the nationalism of jews in their own country. There are other reasons: the best book on the subject is Jean-Paul Sartre's THE ANTI-SEMITE AND THE JEW. / ara Thank you. WHY I LOATHE ARABS AND ADMIRE JEWS ********************************************** I loathe Arabs because they are theocratic, dogmatic, intolerant, Are jews tolerant? traditional to the point of being medieval, hidebound, gullible (72 virgins), superstitious (720 virgin: because he who believes in 72 will also believe in 720, or as Hitler said: "The bigger the lie, the better!"), authoritarian, tribal, undemocratic. Because they are racists All right. These arguments do not hold water. I understand yout personal attitude to Arabs but "democratic" jews also have a lot of traditionalism - if one is educated on Talmud and Tora, and share the thought that jewish nation is special, chosen by God, and that some day it will control the whole world (in my own words, from Bible), he/she cannot be a non-traditionalist. Democratism and modernism of jews are right but that's because they spent their tribal lives in modern, highly developed, highly cultural, rich contries such as Germany, Russia, Poland, US, Canada,... "(they hate not only Jews and Americans but also the West, all infidels, and women – except virgins of course, provided they are imaginary, abstract, non-existent, metaphysical virgins because they represent the least threatening form of femininity)." Well, I would not like to argue this because I see your personal emotional attitude to that culture. by the way, a culture that gave rise to blossoming spanish flamenko, Mavritanian rich culture,... "Because they are masters of the blame-game, which means, they are irresponsible and dishonest." Of course, the jewish honesty is 100 %. I find it interesting, It's like a science fiction. Vahan

"Turks hating Armenians, Nazis hating Jews, Muslims (also Armenians) hating Americans and Israelis: to me they are equally repellent." If you are honest in your thoughts then go through the backward direction too. Armenians hating Turks, Jews hating Nazis,... And see what you can get from that. Do not be surprised! # "At one time or another the Jews have been hated by Pharaohs and Popes, Nazis and Stalinists, skinheads and born-again Fundamentalists. But Jews, unlike some of their haters, continue to exist because that’s what hatred does to the hated: it gives them a reason to persevere ..." Yes , Dear Ara, right you are. If you open Dostoevsky's memories you will find a note about Jews where he says that he has never seen such a hatred to russian people as that from Jews. Vice versa, a?? And why is that Jews were hated in Egypt, Russia,..? one should ask this question too I guess (as well as for Armenian case). Among VIPs that were "fried" by Stalin were Trozky, Zinov'ev, Kamenev,... all jews. And I would not say that we have simply a nationalism here. "in order to prove the world wrong, and to say: "We are better than you think and if you give us a chance we may even succeed in proving that we are better than those who hate us unto death." Again, you are right. And those hating jews, as you say, did not survive whereas jews did. They appeared to be stronger than those hating them. And since hating one you make him stronger as well as hating you become stronger(you may argue that), let me just guess whose hatred was stonger - that of jews' to others or those (who did not survive) to jews. Sorry for the "anti-isms". Vahan

Shnorhakalutyun, Arpa! "There seems to be a consciousness about the sorry state of the language yet, due to prevailing conditions there are also much more urgent problems. Beside that Armenians have been without central leadership for so long have fogotten how to listen and heed to authority. In other words, at the present there are 8 million "linguists" each with their own opinion, each with their own system and each with their own internet site promoting their own version of the Ay Ben Gim, or Ayp Pen Qim, as the case may be. Vahan, if even there were such a thing as an official version by the Academy of linguistics in Yerevan- How many would really adopt it? I agree about millions of "linguists", and unfortunately the work of linguists (not "linguists") does not have any influence. (If there are such works) Any Interent site gives different approach and that's stupid. It will probably be easier if here we use only Eastern Armenian, but the thing is that many people know the Western Dialect. As for how many would adopt the official version I do not know, I think not many. Vahan

i do not understand why some people in this Forum are so interested in Jewish/Armenian relations. If you are really worried about two countries' relations then construct your talk/dialogue in a logical and productive way. As an "outsider" in this topic i see that you guys are more intersted in insulting each other showing your emotional attitude to certain nations. Something like:"If you are not against the Jews then you are against us." If some of you guys think that crying about the Jews and their relations with Turks will help somebody here or will give rise to the improovement then you are definitely wrong. Anti - semitism(althouh i do not know where this stupid word comes from) can only work as a way for provocation and nothing more. Do you think that you are opening our eyes to what is going on today? can you please show me how may your attitude change people's opinion here? It cannot because what you are doing is simply "boltovnya", as russian would say. Vahan

Thank you, Harut jan, there ARE mistakes, for example, not "gtal" but "gdal". Chem haskanum, te ov e ashxatum ayd siteeri vra, bayz.... Sad,.... I think Erevan State University should have some useful stuff on its web page but I did not try yet. I will. If there are Armenian language Departments at the Universities in the US or Canada they should also have something good for us. Lets try.

"inch el lava hnchum - Xosenq Hayeren !!! Movses Pasadenatsi " : < Inch el lav e hnchum.... a-ov mi xosir, Movses! Nerezek, Movses Pasadenazi, isk Caltech amroz@ dzer ishxanutyan sahmannerum e gtnvum? Vahan

http://www.arminco.com/hayknet/ellib/are-d...ict/clas-eh.htm http://www.cilicia.com/armo21.html you may find that useful.

Look at this - http://www2.primushost.com/~narbey/armen/a.../alphawest.html

" just realized. paragraph in Armenian reffers to something else (i.e. chapter, unit). how would paragraph be in Armenian, i forgot?" Chapter, unit = glux, mas, hatvaz, surah(raffin er sirum ogtagorzel), paragraph(dasagrkerum)

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/armenian.htm Guys, if you need to learn the alphabet you can find it there!.... THOTH, I think you should use this link!!! Im kartsikov, petk e sksel aybubeniz: Vahan

"Mosjan, mots vonts statsvets? husov em miqich kyanqd heshtatsav hima? Mos jan, mi hat anhames harts tam eli, yete kareli a iharke. " Harut jan, voch te 'kareli a' ayl 'kareli e'.... "Movses jan, inchu es du misht vor-i tegh@ vro grum? " Shat lav harz e, yes shut ei der uzum ays harz@ tal, bayz amachum ei.... "ughaki shat hetaqrqir a." Harut jan, voch mi "a" !!!! Miayn "e"...... Naxadasutyan vergum ":", voch te '.'..... " irakanum el aytents es artasanum, te ughaki shit nuyn sxaln es anum? " Irakanum el aydpes es artasanum, te ughaki misht nuyn sxaln es anum (aveli lav klini ogtagorzel 'nuyn sxaln es tuyl talis')... Arpa jan, shnorhakalutyun bari magtankneri hamar! es el huys unem kashxati... Haruti aragarkaz@ lav mitk e, bayz inz tvum e, vor amenahest@ hayeren tpeln e.... Gitem, voch bolor@ hamapatasxan fonter unen, bayz ete voroshenk bolors nuyn font@ ogtagorzel, inz tvum e problem chi aragana: Vahan

We can use just this topic. Those who have questions or problems with their Armenian can ask for help right here in this topic. So, I am waiting for people to take part in that and tell us if they have problems with the language. How is going to work? I think they ask questions and those who can help post the answers. And that might be a good communication. Vahan

All right, people, thank you for the posts... Let me just write what I am thinking about this project. We all realise that this will not give a language course obviously and we cannot cover the Grammar/Pron-ion/writing/reading/spelling but the part of the part that we might cover could indeed help people to improove some language skills. If some time later we realise that it is not going to work and it is absolutely useless then we can easily give up... I would like to ask everybody who speaks Armenian to give us a hand and make a contribution.As I see there ARE many people here that are really good in Armenian. I think with the help of these guys something may be done! Lala jan, would you please help us... If you are in Armenia now, please, ask your school or university friends who have access to the Internet to come to this forum and make a contribution to this topic. About your English: I am pretty sure we all (I DID say ALL) will be happy to help you with the English, you and your frineds as well if they also need help. Do you agree that this is a good way to brush up your communication skills in English?Much better since it is a first-hand aid from fluents! I also think that might be a good way for those learning Armenian. If anybody has any suggestions or ideas please post in Language Project not here. If you can type in Armenian that is fine!!! What we can also do is giving the links to the Inet sources for Armenian - online Armenian/English/Armenian Vocabularies, textbooks (I do not have any commercial interests... ), alphabets, etc. Shat lav, @nkerner, huys unem, ays teman chi vergana 2-3 namakneriz heto: Ete zankutyun@ goyutyun uni, chem kartsum, vor ays plan@ apaga chi unena: Does anybody have a question? Ask a question in Armenian! Shnorhakalutyun, Vahan