sen_Vahan

"certainly language being a major piece of this (that I unfourtunatly lack)." THOTH jan, are you 99 years old? Come on, man, do not tell me that you do not have the possibility to learn Armenian!! If you really don't (???) I am reday to help you with that. " For without the language the culture and histroy will be - for the most part - just a fairy tale..." Absolutely agree, THOTH, let it be the first step to learn the language. You have the full understanding of the subject. Vahan

A useful idiot, according to Lenin, is one who supports a regime because he is taken in by its propaganda. Let me guess: Did he mean Bol'shevik Propaganda? I think he did, and if not then he prooved to be a great idiot. A dangerous idiot is one who identifies a regime with the homeland without realizing that doing so amounts to identifying Russia with Stalin, Germany with Hitler, Italy with Mussolini, and Spain with Franco. If a regime is corrupt (and most regimes are because power corrupts) it becomes the patriotic duty of each citizen to oppose it, which is what Thomas Mann did in Germany, Alexander Solzhenitsyn in Russia, Antonio Gramsci in Italy, and Pablo Casals in Spain. Do I understand right that the opinions of Mann-s, Solgenitsin-s,...., are some kind of indicators about the regime? Solgenitsin is now living in Russia and it is not his patriotic duty to oppose today's regime there.(except some critics about social topics) So, what is that, he hopes or he is tired to oppose? Or maybe the regime in Russia today is not corrupt?? Thank you, Vahan

"I don't care much about art, poetry, history, theater, "books", tradition, and all the other artsy-fartsy stuff which is usually associated with culture. " Because you are living in a CULTURE where you can feel free to do that. Thus becoming a part of that culture. "Therefore, at this point, I also really don't care about the Armenian culture ... actually, I don't really care much about any culture. " paying taxes on time (sorry for that trivial example) is also a part of the culture. "If I see something that I like, I look at it. If I hear music that I like, I listen to it. If I see food that I like, I eat it. I don't care if it is Armenian, Jewish, Irish, Chinese, or whatever. I have friends that will not listen to music they think is too "turkish" or "rabiz" or whatever other stupid reason. Basically, it comes down to I like what I like and I dislike what I dislike. Yes, right, the absense of the style is also a kind of style... So many people have lost their lives to preserve things that is NOT funny anymore. Religion, culture, language, traditions, nationalism, are irrelevant in my opinion! "Of course the above is true until some other idiot comes along and tries to force his way of life on you ... and worst of all, starts killing your family and stealing your stuff " What if he just says to accept his way of life otherwise everything will be exterminated (but in a very diplomatic way) ?Will you switch? Vahan

"Lala, Did you just ask the same question again? Ohh shat me metase sero macin, tariqe het amen inch ka haskanas." Why you are so pessssssimistic, henry? ... Lala jan, I probably know what the love is but I don't understand why those girls did not love me??? Sksum em mtazel, vor menak yes karog em sirel.... De heto el asum en, te ser' goyutyun chuni: Iharke chuni, menk sirum enk, isk mez chen sirum.... Oh, right now I thought that I was always a loser... Vahan

Dear Alls, We have the idea to open a new topic (ideally a section if it is possible, i don't know) for those who do not know Armenian language and need some help. Although it is not going to be a real course/academic but that might help some people to improove their Armenian. I am not a specialist in Armenian or any other language but I speak the language well and I am sure there are many people in this Forum knowing the language and who could really help. I am waiting for any suggestions and thoughts about this (posotive, negative, does not matter). What do you think about the Eastern/Western dialects, which one would be better?

"That is an excellent idea. " Thank you, TB! "However, being a mediocre speaker of Western Armenian, I cannot offer good help in Eastern Armenian." I can and many others can. I don't think that will be truely academic but that might work somehow. " And at this point in time, those starting from scratch should probably learn the "official", Eastern Armenian, rather than the Western variety that is on its way to a slow, painful death, cut off from its soil." I agree, it is better to start with the Easrtern Armenian. "Or we can start synthesizing a hybrid Armenian, and use the unsuspecting students as lab subjects." Great! That will require more job. Vahan

Because you are living in a CULTURE where you can feel free to do that. Thus becoming a part of that culture. "Then I really like this culture! I stand corrected " Exactly. We agree here. ... paying taxes on time (sorry for that trivial example) is also a part of the culture. " But I don't care much for paying taxes. " Oh, yeah, beacuse you do not care much about the culture.... "Except for the part of getting money back which so far has happened every year. So, yes, I actually enjoy doing taxes at the "end of the year". " i follow your typical Armenian way of thinking, and I like that!!! "But it is not one of those things that I identify with or something I would pass down from generation to generation as a means of keeping my identity. It's just one of those things I have to do to keep my current level of luxury (small price to pay) " Current level of luxury...... can you imagine that I cannot return the taxes for the year 2001? No luxury... (off-topic) ... Yes, right, the absense of the style is also a kind of style... "Ok now I am confused. So how can one have NO style? " I don't know, you made me think so:) "How can one have NO culture?" Good question!! "Are you saying it is impossible?" Trust me, that's exactly what i mean. ' About the language thing: I know this is a very unpopular stance but I really think the whole world should just pick a single universal language and stick with it." Sometimes I do not realise why people try to globalise everything? Where this cosmopolitism comes from? Chem haskanum... " I mean enough with all the different stuff. " Yeah, I have not been in LA but now I do not even want:( "I don't care which language it is. I even think it should be a completely new language so no one thinks they were cheated! But never-the-less, I think it's about time to start ... (I know how much trouble it was to get the Euro going ... but we have to start at some point!)" Lets try Armenian , we will probably have a great profit! All right, serious, I mean should we open a new section to learn Armenian? "oh, and it better be an easy language to learn and remember. No more strange spellings, strange grammar rules, strange words. A very simple language ... maybe even a subset of English. (Ok, start flaming me now for not picking Armenian ... but you have to admit it is a very difficult language compared to modern English)." Again, the absense of the style is also a kind of style. I cannot help think about that when I read this. " Ok now to make up for my amazingly "dumb" statements above (especially on a 'hye' forum ... I think it is a great idea to have an Armenian language section. " I am starting to agree with you!! And you know it is better when you agree with rather than disagree. "I am NEVER against learning new things and as much as possible. " Ok, there is one person that agreed with the idea. Thanks a lot! " would love to know as much as I can about ANYTHING. However, all I am saying is that it should be up to me to decide which language, culture, style (or lack there-of ) I want to have in life ... but of course subject to the contraints (rules, regulations, and customs) of the country I live in." Sure. Once we got an agreement in something with each other i am not going to argue any more. I'm melted. And I like your Armenian way of thinking:) Vahan

Guys, do you think we should open a special topic in this forum for learning (or probably "learning") the language? Some practice - words, sentenses, phrases (even tests and exams for lazy guys!), anyone could ask questions there or make suggestions. Later we can write some small texts to improove the ability of "students". No, no, do not think that I am kidding or going to be an educator, but serious. i think there're many people in this Forum who could help with this stuff. i am waiting for your responses, guys, and hope this will not be ignored. The thing is that THOTH is right and I would say without the language the culture is almost dead. it's like a beautiful flower in need of water... We can at least try. Vahan

"and next time, when posting, stop talking about food. i can't cocentrate." Harut, bayz du urish demk es! hargezi! " hmm, should i move my computer to kitchen, or the kitchen to my room." Try to drilllllllllllll a hole to neighbor's kitchen while sitting in your room.(just kidding) Vahan

Movses jan, Chem karzum, vor "amen mard ira dardin, inchpes urin u bardin" amenalav motezumn e, bayz amen mek' petk e ir gorzov zbagvi. Chisht chem asum? maybe I misunderstood you? Vahan

Ali, "this is my heritage, i am afraid, and i have to learn to live with it, and yes, it is shared by many countries: germany (as we have seen), sweden (eugenics programmes in force until the 1970s - can you imagine?) france (algeria) china (tibet, sinkiang), russia (the list is too long) england, usa,australia." Germany, sweden, Russia,..... All that cases are very different and the comparison is irrelevant and I do not see why one should compare. did Algerians disappear from their homeland? Russia with the long list (?) - would you please give an example that could be in comparison with armenian case (done by russians). Tibet? They still "fight" for the independence which means there are people that could do that. " too bad. note that i am not trying to deny the fact that we have that heritage, nor am i trying to "justify" or "mitigate" it in any way, i myself would be the first to oppose that (in fact i am doing this over here)." Thank you, Ali. but to be portrayed as the embodiment of all evil as if we were the only, or the greatest, evil on earth, and especially by evils in no way smaller and possibly much greater than ourselves, no, i cannot accept that, i am sorry. Some armenians think about turks in that way, as well as some jews think about germans. But if one considers the armenian case to be special it deos not mean turks are of "special evil". Vahan

A small hero shows the national character which can appear in inxtreme situations...i would say it is more than just a master piece from our literature. But where is that character now? Is that a forgotten epos? Vahan

Shirag jan, Bann ayn e, vor menk bolors el shat lav haskanum enk, vor "arneti pes aprel chi kareli", bayz hamenayndeps aprum enk - vomank USA-um, Rusastanum, Canadayum, kam ayl teger, Hayastaniz heru: du erevi gites, vor shat hayer ambogg ashchariz dram ev ognutyun en ugarkum, kam misht patrast en ugarkel, bayz achr ayd poger' teg chen hasnum, henz hayastan en hasnum, korum en: Es karzum em, vor Hamaynki ognutyamb hayastanum shat baner kareli e pochel ev barelavvel, bayz petk e , vor ayd ognutyun' ir npatakin hasni, voch te chanaparhin kori: Es shat lav gitem, vor Rusastanum, orinak, ahakin harust hayer kan, voronk patrast en aschatel Hayastani het, nerdrumner anel, bayz chen anum, vorovhetev giten, te inchov da kvergana: Erevi du nkatel es, vor ays Forum-um shat kich mard ka Hayastaniz, himnakanum spyurkahayer en: Hayastani hayer' gamanak ev hnaravorutyun chunen nman banerov zbagvelu: Isk aystegi hayer' aveli aktiv en u uzum en inchvor ban pochel im karzikov: Bayz inch khosk, mer problemneri aragin patchar' menk inkners enk, heto mer haraberutyunner' mer harevanneri het: Vahan

"Cause you say so? I know Armenians who were shocked when they heard some of the stuff I posted about the Jews and there Anti Armenian Cause. The denial of the Armenian Genocide by Israels Peres lit a fire in Armenians and when that Cohn went to Armenia and denied the Armenian Genocide the SH*T hit the fan." And I know many Armenians in Armenia who consider spurkahayutyun to be merely cows and ambitious idiots. What I want to write now is a little bit off - topic. Again, many Armenians in Armenia(those I know) are surprised knowing about all Internet Armenian Forums worldwide. Their common response is: "What the hell guys you are talking about? We need to solve our big problems whereas you are talking about some unreal things. We need good relations with our neighbors......" Good relations with our neighboring countries - Georgia(we have cold rel-ns with now), Azerbaijan (I do not have to tell you about that), Turkey (you all know), Iran(the only one that is more or less a "good" one). I don't know any other country in the world that is in so bad standing as Armenia. When we continue that tradition of blockade (WE along with our neighbors) we do not win, we only lose because of constant immigration, ecenomic blockade and corruption. You can ask so what (?) what we might do? I think speaking loudly about Jews or Turks and their relations is not the most diplomatic way (Sorry, I know that Armenians are far from diplomacy, and Turks are not!!!) to get something done. And being a member of this Forum I want to ask people to calm down, and do not insult others. A.R., I think Jews have a really great political power today in the world, and we are very weak today, too weak, to try to "fight" against. I am not going to say that the things you are posting about Jews/Turks do not have the right to exist, but crying about that will not help anyhow. Sorry, if it sounds like an advice from a wise old man, I am actually very young, younger that you. Vahan

"Several years ago I was talking to a scientist from Armenia. This was even before the breakdown of the SU. I don't remember how the conversation got to the deifinition of an Armenian, while I was arguing that "an Armenian is he who professes to be one", this scientist who professed to be a non-bleiver, an atheist, who considered religion and Christianity to be nothing but superstition,expressed the idea that he would find it very difficult to accept some one who did not subscribe to Christianity, even more specifically to the Apostolic Church, as an Armenian. " Arpa, what is that scientist's name? Just my curiosity. Vahan

"I had heard that before and to me it is no more than some asserting that Yerevan ids from "yerevats" (it appeared) that some idiots claim that idiot Noah exclaimed at the sight of land. I am ahsamed to even mention that Catholicos Garegin I (May His soul rest in light, then of Cilicia) told that ridiculous story from the pulpit." Arpa, when I was at school in Erevan, there was an analysis in the history class about Erebuni/Erevan. Many versions were suggested. One of them: Erebuni - erevum e ayn (ereb ani)(tesnum em ayn), and that was not what Noah said. According to one of the versions it was something Urarts were saying in the evening during the sunset.(about the sun) I am not going to say that this version has a right to exist. It is the first time I red about Noah! Vahan

Azat jan, mersi, that was a really good one!!!!!!!!!! erkar gamanak senz chei tsizagatsel!!

just one more comment: When we talked to these guys in Adler in usual Armenian we were understood. And when they talked slowly trying to explain what they were saying it became lot easier to undestand them. Vahan

"Alright people, do you think the Homshentsik are Armenians? " That's a good question. I just want to give some information (from my own experience) about Ho(a)mshentsik. First, in Armenia they are called Hamshenahayer (hamshenarmenians), just like vrazahayer(georgian armenians), parskahayer (persian armenians), etc. There is A LOT of hamshenahayer in Black Sea cost of Russia - Adler (mainly), Sochi, and in whole Krasnodarskiy Kray. Armenians in that region are well known and they are known as hamshenahayer that came from Turkey. Last time i was in Sochi was summer 2000 (with my brother). In Adler Airport before flying to Moscow we met a group of domestic hamshenahayer 50-60 years old. When they were talking to each other we did not understand anything!!(except hayhoyanks) That was a surprise because we met many hamshens in Lazarevskaya of Sochi Oblast' and their accent was not that bad. They said the problem was that they came from Abchazia. And their language was changed more than of those living in Russia. We attended some concerts in Armenian cultural centers in Sochi and those dancing and singing there were hamshens - with specific songs and dances. But I can say that Artsax Armenians' dances and songs are also somewhat specific. I think they all are Armenians and they kept their identity. Vahan

"Naturally. Take it or leave it. It's a free market. " Okay. " Let me simplify my point. You cannot be an intellectual without creating a new (and self-consistent) view of an aspect of reality. " All right, that's all according to your definition. But what if I do not think that the intellectual is one who creates a new and self-consistent view of reality? " Fresh thinking and a new, self-consistent look at reality are not synonymous. There is a glaring inconsistency in the communist theory that only the most naive or cowed can overlook. In other words, it never was a self-consistent idea. " I would not like to defend communists but their ideas were new. About self-consistency I am not sure. Can you define what the self-consistent view is? "The persons that produced it may have been intellectuals due to their other thoughts, but that particular strain of thought was a failed attempt at arriving at a new and self-consistent way to interpret reality even before the first bolshevik picked up a gun. " Ok, then I don't know any self-consistent view of reality. The only thing I know is that there was a lot of tryings throughout the history to create a new way of life or a new view on the reality but all of them failed sooner or later. And bol'shevism or communism was one of them. And they changed I would say forever the life of many countries and people. "As for whether the Russian empire deserved its fate, why should we care? " Why we should not? "An empire is by definition a self-legitimizing organized crime of collosal proportions. " Wow... where did you get that definition from? Again, what if I do not think so? I know, i may take it or I may leave it because of the free market. "An empire has no moral right to exist. " Moral right? One more definition then is needed. "If a group of people decide to herd the masses at gunpoint to follow a certain "new" idea, it is hardly the fault of the intellectual. And herding people at gunpoint (or the point of a sword) is hardly a new and self-consistent way of looking at reality. " Socrates did not tell people to take guns but anyway he became the pioneer of a new view (I do not know whether or not self-consistent, I am waiting for the definition). You do not have to make people to take guns in order to change the way of life - creating the idea may be the first step. Vahan P.S. Lets continue in another topic not to disturb Ara Baliozian.

Many musicians and artists, for example, also come up with new and very interesting ways to look at our reality. Some of them are intellectual, some not. Of course they are. Just your opinion. If you can express or interpret reality in a new, interesting (and self-consistent) way, you are an intellectual regardless of whether you know it, and regardless of whether the society considers you as such. That was a good definition of intellectual. It would not be your reason of existence, but it will be your reason of existence as an intellectual. One can define the-reason-of-existence as an intellectual by himself I guess. One can just express and create ideas and not to consider that as a reason for intellectual existence. But what you are describing is not self-consistent. If everyone is truly satisfied, they won't be looking for alternatives. Curiosity is driven by not being satisfied with the "standard answers". That means "everything is not perfect". Being rich and "developed" is not the same as being happy by a long shot, and "perfect" is even a longer shot. Curiosity may be a natural thing - scientific, for example. And there may be no "standard answers" at all. There may be no answers and there may be complete answers but a man can be driven by his curiosity anyway without knowing whether or not the answers exist. Being an intellectual has very little to do with how much you know. You must know how to think though. According to your definition of intellectual yes. How can a fresh, rational look at the world destroy society and country? Bol'sheviks and komunists were fresh thinkers in Russian Empire (relatively fresh).There were intellectuals among them driving the idea and actions. Where is the Russian Empire? Did it deserve that faith? By the way, you are talking about the rational look? Wasn't that the rational look of Socrates that changed greatly the Greek Society? If a society is likely to be destroyed by the simple act of intellectual exercise, it certainly deserves to undergo what is sometimes termed "creative destruction". It will hardly be destroyed by just an individual intellectual exercise but ideas are time-sensitive - "Nam ne dano predugadat', Kak slovo nashe otzovetsya..." Vahan

To Ara Baliozian/ "At the turn of the century we had an intellectual class and no academics; we now have an academic class and no intellectuals. Why this distinction? Allow me to elaborate. Intellectuals are as a rule anti-establishment; by contrast, academics, especially those who are financially dependent on the establishment, are not." As I understand you call intellectuals those who are called usually intelligents. Any person may be an intellectual but there is no such a class in a society. But this may be a cultural to call things in different ways. Yes, you are right , intelligencia is anti-establishment. And I understand your attitude to Armenians: you expect more from them. No? If not, then that's a common problem even in very developed countries and societies. And I have one question: Isn't it strange that in many cultures intelligencia is anti-establishment? Might it be that the reason is that intelligents are so clever and smart that they cannot get along with others? Or might it be that the reason is that the vast majority of intelligencia is full of decadencia? Now about Armenians - your subject of investigation - aren't our intelligents more uncommon in the sense that there are more decadents among them? Vahan

TB, "Coming up with new and interesting ways to look at reality is the reason-of-existence for intellectuals." Many musicians and artists, for example, also come up with new and very interesting ways to look at our reality. Some of them are intellectual, some not. And if one comes up with such a beautiful idea it will not mean that he/she is an intellectual. Moreover, if I find a new way to look at the reality it also does not mean that it's my reason of existance no matter I am an intellectual or not. "If everything is perfect, then there is no need for intellectuals, and there won't be any intellectuals." What does it mean "everything is perfect"? If every person is happy or what? Lets imagine that we are living in a highly developed society with very happy individuals in a very rich country. Will we need intellectuals? In my point of view, yes we will, because there will be some people in that society with high curiousity. And many curious people can become intellectuals simply because they will know a lot. " The reason there are intellectuals in a society is because things are not perfect and there are people with enough intellect and courage to think against the establishment. " Good way for the anarchy. One can always find something aganist the establishment. But unfortunately in many cases great intellectuals with their anti-establishment can destroy the society and country. (or the nation, for instance) "Whether intellectuals have good social skills or not is irrelevant." Do not agree. Intellectuals as well as non-intellectuals are living in a society, so, they should have "good social skills" although i do not know what you mean by "good social skill". Vahan

Vahan jan, Artashat was named by Artashes, King of Armenia , many many years ago. Maybe yes, maybe no, who knows... According to literature yes.

What is the origin of Erebuni/Erevan/Yerevan? Why do we write "erevan" and pronounce it "Yerevan"? To be honest, I do not understand the second question... About the origin of Erevan. As you all know according to some studies Ereb= Erev (changing in language) , uni=van,ani (the same reason), and the meaning is "Tesnum em ayn, erevum e ayn". As for the various types of names in my point of view they actually should be various. Why not? The country saw so many changes and it was divided so many times by completely different cultures - Greek, Assyrian, Persian, Turkish. Consequently, the names were changed. Weeeeeell, I know that it was a very general answer... Artashat , I guess, "many valleys"= shat arter. P.S. Arpa, I can type in Armenian, but what to type? My library in Armenian is in Erevan I did not bring anything.