Juggernaut

I dont see anything wrong with his statement. If I was in his position I would probably be saying the same.

quote But one may always change their opinion when they are better informed. quote Please expand on this statement. quote And as I said, food that would otherwise rot in a barn. And why doesnt the US give the food to its own many starving and homeless? Also, population is not a measure of wealth. [ October 08, 2001: Message edited by: Juggernaut ]

quote Just the fact that you reside in Turkey, are well educated (judging by the level of your English) and at the same time admit the occurance of the Genocide and the multi-ethnic origins of the modern Turks. I have always been (and still are) under the impression of mainstream Turks being 'deniers', and have also been aware of the strong Marxist base in Turkey and their stance. quote Ermm, the main difference of opinion is on the genetics of Armenians. I believe us to be the least effected by other ethnicities (in Middle East). Although I may be mistaking you for someone else, but I had to show that I disagree with you on something

aurguplu, although I see the logic behind your argument, my views obviously differ. and btw. are you a marxist?

quote Nothing, but its only a short term solution to countries that this 'aid' has been provided for. In the long term they are worse off, just look at Africa. quote Who was the US going to trade with if Europe was down the drain? quote Read above quote Nothing is wrong with that, but I want everyone to understand that US citizens are NOT worse off when 'aid' is given. quote To put it in the right perspective, what the US government DEEMS to be concearning defence. quote Armenians may be more prejudeced and opinionated than Americans, but I assure you the average Armenian is much more intelligent that the average American. quote Well, I am because the Taliban is not recognised, and therefore all aid going to the government of Afganistan would in fact be going to the Northern Alliance.

quote It is not just about genetics, it is also culture, religion (or rather lack of) and many other factors. quote I disagree, the Turks look much more 'Asian' than us. If you have proof of this, then I would love to know. quote Yes, and few peoples are capable of it, and then denying it after being knee deep in blood of others.

quote Giving aid in THE FORM OF LOANS. The only time when the US has given money as a gift has been to fullfil its own interests and goals. quote It may or may not be paid back in terms of CASH. BUT we will be forced to pay it back in one form or another. quote Correct, and I dont think 'love' has anything to do with it. quote Yes, surplus food that would otherwise rot in a barn. quote:They have all this info for you because majority of things that happen in the US government are public information because of our "Freedom of Information" act. Yes, but seems to me that the most important information is never public. quote By no choice I meant, they had no choice in their political stance not in accepting US loans. quote See above, and I was not talking about Kosovo, but Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia was Russias only ally left in the Balkans, she was punished for this by what took place in Kosovo. quote Probably going to the Northern Alliance to buy more weapons and hunt down Bin Laden.

The only 'right' they have is to get on their knees and beg for forgiveness for the 2000 years of suffering they and their Mongol cousins bought upon humanity.

quote There are no rules set in stone, each of us does as they believe. If marrying a Chinese is you wish, then do as you please, but you wont get any respect from me.

****ography is a very serious problem, and must be dealt with accordingly. I would even compare it to a contagious desease.

quote These have taken place in the past 100 years, mainly because of Muslim insecurity in the apparent Christian dominated world. They still think that Western Europe and the US are 'Christian' countries and therefore target Christians among themselves. The Turks however have been at it for centuries and have even massacred other Muslims (Kurds, Arabs, Allewites).

100% agree with Tigran, we owe it to our ancestors, its as simple as that.

Even though I must say I respect the ASALA and their members for their bravery, I dont think their actions will better our position. These days its all about world public opinion and terrorism is not seen in a very positive light.

quote US simply needs a strong ally in the region, Israel without US support is very weak, Turkey on the other hand has a large chunk of strategically placed territory and a willing population. One other thing is that everyone hates them from the Balkans to Iran and Saudi Arabia for various reasons.

I dont mind listening to other peoples opinions, no matter their background, that is half the reason why come to these forums. What I dont understand is, why would Thorny be bothered coming here and arguing, I certainly wouldnt. Maybe she can explain herself.

Actually the Yugoslavs had better Russian weapons and failed to shoot down any plane. But the best missiles they had were the S-50s. I am not 100% on this one, but I do remember in the early stages of the war some people demading (Russian news) that Russia sent their S-200s and S-300s ie. the latest weaponry there. The Soviet Union had a fine Air Defence tradition, and the MiG-29, despite being over 20 years old is THE MOST MANUEVRABLE fighter to this day. It is electronics that it lacks in.

quote They kiss ass, because they have NO CHOICE. If they dont then the US would do to them what they did to Yugoslavia (Kosovo), Russia (Chechnya), Indonesia (East Timor, Aceh) and half-a-dozen other places. quote Your preatty naive, do you think the US just gives away money for no reason? Ever heard of LOANS and INTEREST? Most of these loans also have 'stings attached'. And whatever aid is given for free is usually food, which is surplus US farmers production sent abroad so as to keep local prices up and the farmer lobby happy (plus the propaganda value). quote Read above. quote Are you saying the US sent aid to Taliban? I doubt it, maybe in terms of surplus food, but not money.

quote I dont think terminating relations is necessary, but Turkish diplomats should realise that they no longer are part of the world power of 500 years ago and act accordingly.

The Russian S-300 surface-to-air missiles are very potent weapons, as their predecessors have been through history. In fact during the numerous Arab-Israeli wars in the Middle-East the majority of the Israeli jets that were shot down were hit by surface-to-air missiles, this was despite the numerical supperiority of the Arab air-foces.

quote As I said the concept of nationality did not come into being untill late 18th Century (French Revolution and Napoleon). Before that people thought differently, and how should I know why they claimed non-Armenian ancestry, maybe just to be different. Also, in many other kingdoms the nobles were of different nationality than to the commoners. For example, the ruling class in the Baltic states was German, and the ruling class of England was French immidiatlly after the Norman Invasion of 1066.

Well said Artur, and I fear what the US and its 'Allies' are about to do will only make things worse. And the US has no real allies, when its economic dominance is gone so will its allies for past mal-treatment and arrogance. I would even say that 90% of the world population (outside the US) dislike for one reason or another the US government. 'The leader of the free world', my buttocks.

Armenians by nature are very conservative people, that is probably the main reason for Republican backing.

Good question Harut, my Armo history isnt that strong, but I am fairly certain that most of our kings were either puppets and/or held little power.

The Christian vs Muslim thing will probably weight with the Republicans, but the democrats are half funded by Jews, and currently hold the majority in Congress. I'll let you draw the conclusions.

Harut, they claimed to have non-Armenian ancestry (this as yet has not been proven), but they were in fact as much Armenian as the common folk, unfortunatelly in many cases our nobles did not act in the interests of the general populance, but this was also the case elsewhere before the arrival of the concept of nationalism.