i'm sorry people. but still i can't see Armenian in there. only first one means, like MJ mentioned, "with shoulder", but i don't think that's the case here. maybe i'm wrong. i don't know. MJ, you might be right. there could have been modified in some way. even if there are Armenian, they are in very heavy accent (Turkish probably). btw, both of my grand-fathers were from Garmuch (Karmuch). i'll write about its meaning shortly, after i ask couple of my relatives. Steve, you said many villeges date back to Urartian times. but i don't think their names would have survived that long. they would have been changed until 19-20 centuries.