Dan

I know what you meant by sensitivity. I wasn't referring to physical traits. Just emotionally/socially speaking. That's why I put the word rough in quotation marks. I mean gentleness, etc. When a man acts gently, like saying "hokis" and stuff like that, and being overprotective of the girl, etc. that's just ... i don't know -- that's not a very traditionally masculine way of acting, no? I think that's what you meant when you said "gentle", no? I don't know -- but I, for one, am a bit impatient and can't do stuff like that.. And I don't like being dependent on the woman sorta thing - like not being able to go out without telling her, etc. After all, what distinguishes a man from a woman? If they're both equal and on the same footing, why have concepts of masculinity and femininity in the first place, if it's only supposed to be the difference between genitals.. I don't know -- i guess i'm rambling on and on.. but women's concepts of what masculinity is supposed to be are kinda scary.. especially feminists'. if it were up to them, they'd turn all men into the "stereotypical" effeminate gay man.. and that definitely isn't a turn-on for me in a woman (i.e. when she has views like that). i guess i'm..... too.... conservative? lol.. btw, i like "pale-skinned" women, it's a huge turn-on for me (not necessarily blonde). I don't like the "esmer" type (dark-skinned) too much (there are exceptions, of course!!). ok, i guess i'm being too picky, but i'm being honest about the turn-ons lol.

Do you have green eyes or? Yeah, I like green eyes. But I rarely see women who have green eyes.. blue eyes are pretty common but not green eyes (and i think they're more common in men, or just that i notice them on men more than i notice it on women? lol ). hmm.. actually, I'm not sure if I've seen a woman with green eyes so far.

And down the drain go the notions of real masculinity -- caring? sensitivity? warmth? no, i think that's sorta uhhh feminine... just frustrated at the whole "modern man" concept, so bear with me, this is coming from someone who had a long BAAAAAAAD tutorial about masculinity and gender identity today. no, i am NOT a mysogynist, for christ's sake!! all the women in my class were gonna beat me up today..... sheesh.. i think the world is coming to an end when i hear those radical feminists talking with so much hatred towards men... what's with that? i don't know -- but it seems like every (straight) girl i talk to, they want "sensitivity" in the guy..... angel jan, i'm not attacking you, just making some observations.. i'm just frustrated. what is it that you find so attractive in sensitivity and gentleness? a man is supposed to be kinda "rough", no? (not talking about physical abuse here, ok?) i expect some women on here to bash me for this, but... come on, i don't see how it's a turn on? i mean, i know people have different tastes and stuff, but what's all this "modern man" stuff every girl i talk to repeats, like they're programmed to say it or something..? hmmm.. and i am beginning to really dislike radical feminists. so one of the turn-ons in my list (for women lol) would be -- NOT a radical feminist (i'm all for equal rights, but sheesh, don't bash me and call me a pig, pleeaaaaaase!! ) just curious to hear your perspective on this "turn-on"... girls, what do you say?

O.... I see.. I just checked her avatar.. hmm, I wonder if I have "Armenian eyes"? I don't know.. I haven't actually noticed it in my family, hmm. I guess some Armenians don't have it..?

what was edited in the post??!? i don't think i said anything offensive??? what the hell?

Hmm, anonymouse, what are "Armenian eyes"? Are you referring to the black/dark-brown eyes? --- edited by Sip

lol.. does that mean Sip is electrosexual? is there such a word/term? lol

Hmm, OK, I'm doing some "research" on origins of some races, etc. and I need some good/reliable material on the subject of physical anthropology. I did a search on my univ's library website, and there are lots of books on the topic, except that this is an extracurricular thing I'm doing and I don't have the time to flip through all the books to see which one is good and which one is advanced (not to mention, there are a lot of intro books on the list, and I'm not sure which one I should get..). What I'm looking for are some introductory books (obviously for someone new to the subject, although not completely clueless) about physical (not social) anthropology. So if anyone could recommend some books, that'd be awesome. Thanks!!

lol... what do you mean? <_< Kerry's caliber? I thought all the candidates were of the same caliber...........

I donno about that Maral jan, but -- hyebruin is one of the most open-minded and respectful people on this board when it comes to others' opinions. Maybe you 2 are misunderstanding each other. I don't know. And not gonna discuss that over here, but I suggest that you do talk about it. ahh yes, as you said!! :wub: http://armenians.com/forum/style_images/1/icon12.gif http://armenians.com/forum/style_images/1/icon12.gif

girls, girls, calm down!! valentine's day is not worth fighting over, jesus christ.. lol. more love, less hatred lol..

Ouch! You're telling me I answered the wrong question?!?! Damn, I guess I wasted umm half an hour writing that stuff then. But that's fine... I guess we don't understand each other on this issue very well. But I respect your views. I just hope that what rat said isn't (or doesn't become) true in the case of the Armenian genocide..

Why am I forgiving? Good question. Hard to answer. But I'll take a stab at it anyway. I am forgiving because I can. I am forgiving because I want to. I am forgiving because just like we expect them to recognise their wrong deeds, I have a need to understand their position. Think about how hard it is to admit you were wrong. Or at least for me it is. The reason the genocide has not been recognised is because people refuse to accept that their people were wrong. That their "government" was wrong. It's not because they truly believe that those documents are fake. A lot of Turks, in fact, recognise the Armenian genocide. The collective ego, however, is what is standing in the way of the recognition, in addition to the issue of money and reparation payments. I forgive because I choose to let go of the hatred and do something constructive about it -- such as bringing justice to the perpetrators (in this case, I think they're all dead by now) -- it's not about silencing those who deny the genocide (like what's being done to Ernst Zundel, the holocaust REVISIONIST) with the iron fist of "free speech"... This whole Armenian genocide issue has become a childish play masked by 'politics', a childish play of he-said, she-said: it has become a game of stubbornness on both sides -- stubbornness to admit, and stubbornness to forgive. It's just like a child who wants something just because you said 'no' and the other way around.. I don't know if you get the point i'm trying to make.. i hope you do. anyhow, i think this is going in circles. i think each person should look into their own conscience and think about this whole issue. because if everyone did that, we wouldn't be having this problem. edit: rat, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. I have been called a holocaust denier, and i've been told by many Armenians that i couldn't and shouldn't be a holocaust denier (/revisionist) because it has happened to my own people, etc. that's the biggest fallacy i've ever heard (of). what i've been trying to say all along about how "base" it is to demand reparation payments or to even think about it coincides with what you mentioned as the "holocaust industry." and it is sad. and you are quite right about the freedom of speech part. in fact, in Germany today, it is illegal to wear a swastika necklace or to even talk about Nazism. White Nationalists are persecuted, even on the internet, by the German government. no matter what, i don't want to see that happening in the case of the Armenian genocide, be it good or bad for national interests. freedom of speech is freedom of speech. period. once it falls short of freedom of speech, it is no longer freedom of speech..

Sasun -- who cares if they are going to buy it. If they want to accept my forgiveness, they can. it's about conscience!! they shoud know that doing something wrong cannot be ignored when it comes to justice. forgiveness is something positive that they can get from this whole thing. it's a privilege, not a right. and justice for the victims is a right, not a privilege.

Sasun, forgiveness is not a public act. It is not done FOR the public, and it certainly is not something that should be done to be applauded/praised for. It is something that each and every person has to do in their own hearts. As for national forgiveness, it is manifested by "accepting the apology." Collective forgiveness can only happen when people realise that this cycle of hatred should not go on, because it might set the stage for another such genocide in the future, if/when international politics changes.

Is there ANY first-world country that KNOWS how to handle immigration? If they did, first-world countries would've been places one could live in -- and they clearly aren't anymore. JUST like Immigration Canada deports Russians and turns a blind eye to the thousands of illegal Chinese/black immigrants. I see Europe has the same problem. Created by who? White lemmings who don't have an ounce of national pride and would sell their own country for 10 euros of it ever came down to that. No. It is not hypocrisy. It is about waking up and realising that they've done something wrong. In another 50 years, if Europe doesn't wake the hell up, it will be dominated by muslim fanatics (who would kill you and me in the blink of an eye if they had the chance to). Watch my words. If Dutch people are now aware of the problem they are facing or are soon going to face (if they don't put an end to immigration), I'd say they have a chance at correcting things. There is a limit to everything -- immigration being one of those things. Once given a patch of land, those Turks and Moroccans will demand the entire country, just like the Pakis are doing in England. And while Armenians are also considered immigrants or "outsiders", the same thing couldn't be said of/to them, because wherever Armenians have gone (with the exception of the rabiz Armenians who form gangs in L.A, from what I heard), they have been productive members of society or the communities they have been taken into, and most important of all, they have been good citizens who have not done (with a few exceptions) anything illegal (or at least anything violent - gun crimes, etc.)

I disagree on that one, Sasun. Justice is a concept independent of forgiveness. Justice is static. Either you have it or you don't. Killing is either right or wrong -- it can't be both right and wrong. And I think it's wrong (although some would disagree), and hence why justice should come into play, regardless of whether or not forgiveness exists. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=justice I guess it's hard to understand how someone can bring someone to court for a murder or some such, having forgiven them... it's not about grudges or anger or anything of the sort. it's about the notion of justice independent of everything else. whether or not you forgive someone in your heart is not the state's issue in punishing someone. forgiveness is a personal issue (not individually -- there is something called collective conscience and forgiveness). http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=forgive Forgiveness does not mean "it's ok to do it." Note that you are talking about "excusing" Turks for what they've done (not forgiving) -- excusing means to pass over a fault without demanding punishment.

eh, tell that to the millions of women who buy into that, and the millions of men who are so scared of their wives (or gfs - already?!? lol) that they don't dare to "ignore" that "special" day... oops, girls, don't attack me, ok? I'm talking in general, and there are very intelligent girls who don't buy into all that stuff (although it's nice to get a rose from your lover/partner every once in a while.. i guess..) as for the conspiracy thing -- i'm not sure if consumer manipulation could be considered a conspiracy. i think that's what Valentine's day is.(and many other such days too.. including Christmas -- btw, heh, i'm an atheist and i celebrate Christmas lol -- it's always good to get presents, eh? except that i never get anything )

I thought it was "every night -- or at least the nights that we do something (you know what)" http://queerhye.delri.net/amot1.gif

Sasun, what are you talking about? Are you implying that my relatives weren't massacred? My grandmother's mother was a survivor of the genocide, and she lost all her family and property... A-H, do you have ANY clue as to what you're talking about? For starters, may I suggest that you go back and READ (not re-read, since you obviously didn't read my posts) my posts? I never said we should just forgive and forget. Definitely not the forget part. Forgetting doesn't come with recognition. It doesn't mean that once it is recognised, the burden of memory is off our shoulders. As for forgiveness, I think it's something everyone should do, regardless of what has happened to them or their loved ones. The heart is a resilient muscle, and believe me, hatred doesn't help at all. You can forgive them but demand justice at the same time. You can forgive them and still remember. I've forgiven those who have hurt me. I've forgiven a lot of people. Some of them didn't pay for what they had done. And they never will. But I still forgive. And I do try to bring justice, even after I've forgiven. Justice and forgiveness are two different things. For me anyway. I think you, and a lot of Armenians, are so full of hatred towards Turks (and understandably so), that you find it hard to tolerate the presence of an Armenian who does not hate them. And that certainly doesn't mean that none of my ancestors were massacred (because they were, and even though I don't know who they were, and those who survived are long dead now and I never got the chance to meet them, I do feel their pain in seeing their family and relatives being killed in front of their eyes, and I do feel at a loss for words, and sometimes I do feel the anger rising inside me at what was done, but... I also think that there is no gain in hatred - let us not be so hateful like the Turks were. Let us not be depicted as so hateful that we would readily massacre Turks if we had the chance to... because the amount of hatred and antipathy some people have for Turks cannot be expressed in words.. and so I'm not gonna go there.. but - forgiveness is a great thing). I know I can't really FEEL what they went through - the best I can do is put myself in their situation hypothetically, and think about what *I* would've done and what *I* would've wanted as part of justice. And I don't think I would've wanted any property. And comparing that to an example of a thief and returning the property back to the victim of the robbery is not a very good/relevant one, because it does not involve killing a person. Killing someone (or entire families) is taking away something that cannot be replaced through property or anything else for that matter. It can be accepted as part of reality (because it happened), but that's all that one can do, other than bringing the perpetrator(s) to justice. But you will always have that sense of loss, that sense of being emotionally injured. It won't go away. Just like rape. Just like seeing someone being killed in front of you. I've seen people dying in front of me. I've seen blood. And there is something in me that cannot be returned, no matter how much materialistic justice was given.. I respect your views about wanting the stolen land and property returned, but I don't agree, because I don't consider that the main issue at stake - in fact, I consider that something base. Anyone who has seen a loved one die (or killed, not by genocide), more importantly, a loved one they KNEW personally, would probably UNDERSTAND where I'm coming from (not necessarily agree with). At the end of the day, it's really up to you (as individuals) to forgive or not. I am simply stating my feelings on this issue, and I'm not implying that everyone should forgive. I am fully aware that some people are unable to do so for their own reasons, and I understand.

Valentine's day is by far the stupidest day. It's dumb, not to mention it's overrated. I don't see why there should be a lovers' day.. I guess I have radical views lol, but lovers don't need a day to show their love to one another.......... or they shouldn't need a day for it, ideally.. It really annoys me when people make such a huge friggin deal about Valentine's day.. it's like, 'oh, i have to go and get him something!' !!!!! I agree with rat. Well said!!!

Well, they say curiosity killed the cat, but I don't happen to be a cat (maybe that'd be Tom lol). Yeah, I'd like to know everything, where possible. As for the disagreements part, it's the story of my life...... <_< Thanks for the clarification MosJan -- I just thought you were gonna put all of us on moderation (talk while you could or something along those lines lol) This is a great forum, and as long as we practice moderation (not the moderation by mods!!! lol) it'll be a great place to be on, and I think the difference in opinions is something I like, because not all of us will agree on one thing, and it's always good to hear others' views and learn from them where applicable!!

what exactly do you mean by that, MosJan? just curious..

Hey Anonymouse, are you the one who wrote those? I didn't read them all, cos obviously I don't have the time to... just curious. lol, what do you mean? <_<

Jewish Friend, I have gone through a series of changes w.r.t views on the entire LGBT issue, and while I don't deny what I am, I don't really care if it's obvious, and I don't go around shouting that I'm queer or whatever. At least not anymore (I guess that's the maturity thing lol <_< ). I do make it clear in debates/arguments, but what's the point of telling everyone you're queer when what you're doing is irrelevant to sexuality (workplace, military, university, etc.) I do talk about it on the board, because well, it's inevitable during discussions about equality/marriage/relationships.. lol, and you thought it was impossible to find a gay right-winger, eh?