Dan

lol yes, that would be correct, because you are saying the same thing (i.e., both sides of the equation are the same thing). but how you arrived at "aborting is killing", I am not sure.. murder is when you kill a conscious human being. the embryo might not qualify under those laws.

I'm glad someone agrees with me. lol.. i lost track of this thread cos I had to go to bed early last night, and I'm not gonna read others' long replies so heh.. I pretty much said what I thought about this issue.

i'm not sure if i get it.. sorry

hmmm, you mean when you turn the computer on, you just hear it beeping? if that's the case, then you might want to make sure the graphics card is in place or something.. sorry if i misunderstood the problem/question.

loool, I'm gonna make sure to change that whole pin/hole concept. ahhhh!!!!

omg!!! lmao!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: great post, anileve!!!!

not really.. not all of it is about how the child would feel if it's crippled. it's mostly about how the parents would feel and how they will be able to get on with their lives.. because if people started thinking about the child and what's REALLY best for it/him/her, they would not be so selfish and so dogmatic, even the most religious of them (who believes abortion is a sin or whatever).. not to mention the selfishness of the argument "you can't kill yourself, think about how sad your parents will be if you do." well, my parents didn't think how sad i was gonna be when they brought me to life, so why should i think about how sad they're gonna be when i leave? i don't know if i'm contradicting myself here.. i hope i'm not..

no, that is because they are assuming the child will be normal and will function well in society and fullfil his/her role and carry out his/her duties/responsibilities and take care of his/her parents in old age, etc. it's strictly from a utilitarian point of view. because if it weren't, people would not have such huge problems with children "deserting" their parents after they grew up or with homosexuality (the problem of not being able to have kids), etc.

And the answer is, we are the parents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, grandparents, relatives, friends, doctors, nurses, hospitals, governments, and most importantly caring people, who want the best for the child that's being formed in the womb, and living a miserable life does not seem to me "in the best interest of the child", let alone the parents who have to live through the suffering for the rest of their lives, and the thousands of dollars spent by the family and society in care and treatments, the emotional damage, etc. I say, just abort it and be done -- it probably won't feel anything if it's done early enough, and it won't damage/ruin lives as much as it would if it were left to be born.. Responsiblity does not always mean preserving life. Unfortunately, sometimes it means putting an end to it.

there would be no "best interest" when you've killed the child.... best interest is for those who are still alive, not those who are dead. i am undecided on the issue of abortion (although i lean towards pro-choice rather than pro-life). and i don't know much about birth defects except for watching the story of a little girl who had birth defects (i saw it on TV -- it was a long ad calling for donations to the Hospital for Sick Children), and i must admit that if she were my child, i would've preferred that she hadn't been born. of course, a child who is mentally disabled or not fully developed mentally would not really understand his/her position, but for those around the child, the parents, relatives, etc., it's a very tough and emotionally draining situation.. and i do feel for them. and had that child been mine, i would've preferred abortion to years of torture. i think it's all a matter of conscience, not right or wrong. personally, i would not be as traumatised if the child was killed (abortion) before being born (i.e. before i got to know it).. it's the social aspect that is traumatising, more than the "natural instict" of parenthood. because otherwise, people would be unable to get over their child's death/loss.. people learn to adapt to situations.. i guess in a way i'm selfish (not wanting to go through all that pain of seeing the child going through that pain), but looking at it from the child's perspective -- the child does not know the meaning of life, the value of it, the "good" part of it, because he/she has not experienced it yet.. if i were born with a birth defect (let's say physical), and i grew up like that, and i was asked whether or not i thought it was a good decision that my mom made (not to go through an abortion) [not talking about right or wrong here, just good and bad], i would've said no. i don't think i would want to live my life with a birth defect. i don't think anyone does. and i guess that's where people's evaluation of life comes into play -- how much they value life and accept their situation. i personally wouldn't accept it. seriously -- i would probably end up committing suicide as a grown up. just being honest here... i realise that's extreme, but that's my view...

blame the liberals for it. as much as i try to like them and their agenda, i am beginning to find them increasingly dumb.

THOTH, I think you should chill... I mean.. I understand if you're in a bad mood or something, and I respect that, but... I wasn't really making a point against you..

i mean, i know i have been called "less intelligent" or "stupid", but this thread is a waste of time, or I guess a place for ranting on what is others' business/personal lives... just a general comment -- i really don't understand why it's considered racist when someone says he/she is proud to be White, and on the other hand, it's considered OK for a black person or a woman to say that they are proud to be black or women... i don't get it.. it seems to me that Whites are being victimised here... i'm trying to be as objective as I can.. I'm not a White supremacist or anything, just making an observation or two.. and that affirmative action business is a load of BS IMO, and hypocritical. tell me how you can fight racism/sexism through racism/sexism (or wait, being anti-White is not considered racism, is it? or being anti-male is not considered sexist, is it? )..

looooool Steve!! good one!!!!!!! :lol2:

loooool, thanks for reminding me of that, Hye Acher - but i really didn't need to be reminded lol.. i already had nightmares the day i was told heh... of course, i am kidding.

lol, i guess so.. and that would mean their mothers' underwear == hell, no?

haha.. I'm beginning to seriously dislike the liberals........ I mean, geez... that's just too much.. what's next??!??! http://64.21.83.54/forum/style_images/1/icon8.gif a question -- does anyone know if this has really been applied? and what labels are being used instead of "master" and "slave"?

This one's quite old, but I just came across it on another forum... lmao.. --- ‘Master’ and ‘slave’ on labels is unacceptable, officials say reuters Updated: 10:07 a.m. ET Nov. 25, 2003 LOS ANGELES, Nov. 25 - Los Angeles officials have asked that manufacturers, suppliers and contractors stop using the terms “master” and “slave” on computer equipment, saying such terms are unacceptable and offensive. THE REQUEST — which has some suppliers furious and others busy re-labeling components — came after an unidentified worker spotted a videotape machine carrying devices labeled ”master” and “slave” and filed a discrimination complaint with the county’s Office of Affirmative Action Compliance. In the computer industry, “master” and “slave” are used to refer to primary and secondary hard disk drives. The terms are also used in other industries. “Based on the cultural diversity and sensitivity of Los Angeles County, this is not an acceptable identification label,” Joe Sandoval, division manager of purchasing and contract services, said in a memo sent to County vendors. “We would request that each manufacturer, supplier and contractor review, identify and remove/change any identification or labeling of equipment components that could be interpreted as discriminatory or offensive in nature,” Sandoval said in the memo, which was distributed last week and made available to Reuters. The memo did not include any suggestions for alternative labels. Dennis Tafoya, director of the affirmative action office, said in a separate memo that an “exhaustive search” had been undertaken to find all such labels and replace them with more ”appropriate” ones. A form was sent to all departments to identify equipment carrying the labels “master” and “slave” or any other offensive terms. Faced with an avalanche of complaints from vendors and the general public, Sandoval told Reuters in an interview that his memo was intended as “nothing more than a request” and not an ultimatum or policy change. “I do understand that this term has been an industry standard for years and years and this is nothing more than a plea to vendors to see what they can do,” he said. “It appears that some folks have taken this a little too literally.” Sandoval said that he had already rejected a suggestion that the county stop buying all equipment carrying the “master” and “slave” labels and had no intention of enforcing a ban on such terms with suppliers. “But we are culturally sensitive and we have 90,000 employees,” he said. “We have to take these things seriously.” Sandoval added that in addition to the e-mails he’s received “telling me how stupid I am and how I should be fired” he has gotten a positive response from some companies willing to reexamine their labels. In June, the Los Angeles city council unanimously passed a law requiring that any companies doing business with the city disclose profits they may have made from slavery in the 19th Century. In 2000, the council supported federal legislation seeking reparations for descendants of slaves. Source

Sip, i don't know about you, but i don't regularly update my OS, and when i do update it, i have like 40 updates to install, and when i do install them, it messes up my computer. installing them one by one as they are released might not enable you to know what it's doing.. and plus, i've uninstalled them all because i have to install them one by one to find out with one's causing the problem, and i don't have that much free time on my hands to toy around with some micro$h*tty updates lol.. http://www.windows-help.net/WindowsXP/kern...h-problems.html

not a big fan of family revenge matters.. lol... i don't think i'd forgive the person who lied, although i would understand the position of my fiancee, because, after all, it's a dilemma as to who she should've believed... i'm not sure if i'd forgive her though...

since when is Turkey an expert on racial/ethnic matters? and like you said, Turkey has no gain from this...

but i guess everyone's free to install whichever patches they want to.. I'm not advocating anything here.. just stating my point of view and experiences with it.. by any means, you can keep them if you like them so much lol..

the fact that they suck, and that i don't use them and haven't had a problem ever since i got a reliable firewall... that's because i guess you've updated your windows as soon as you installed it, so you never got to compare your computer pre and post those updates.. i installed those upgrades/patches on my new laptop, and it started giving me various problems, and once i uninstalled them, the problems just disappeared... various problems, like slowing down, crashing, etc.

lol, no, don't remove the patch for the blaster worm, cos if you do, and connect to the internet without much security, you will get the worm.. the rest you can remove.. not sure if there's any quick way to mass-remove them.

hmm, my desktop puter is just a personally assembled one, and it doens't have a fancy case.. lol.. i haven't used it for a while now (4-5 months).. low memory, bad graphics card, hard drive space, etc. it's a piece of trash lol..