Ashot Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Ava, this meeting took place January 17th 2007 in the "Palais de la Mutualité" Ashot, I totally agree with you, except that this kind of arguments developped by our own people can only damage our struggle (when they signed with our name ....), 10 years ago it was only neo-nazist who came with such revisionism and the skills of caricaturing people of a defined group. Anahit, as Arturian you miss once again the point, by the way, in the meeting with my jewish doctor in philosophy (you know the ones with this "jewish face and eyes" as you quoted) the dashnag parti of Europe was highly represented Pari Chapatavertch Polorit Hajoghutsyun NoComment jan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoComment Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Vava, one more thing Bernard-Henri Levy announce in the french-armenian magazine "Les Nouvelles d´Arménie" (nr 136, december 2007) in an interview with Ara Toranian that he is invited this spring to take part in a conference at the "92th Y" in New-York. He gonna lead a speech, and due to all what happen around the resolution 106 and at his request, the issue of the armenian gonna take a major place in this conference the same link to those who miss it previously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 (edited) damage our struggle Struggle???? Why we should struggle to make sure that everyone recognizes the obvious? Once you answer this question, a lot of things would become clear for you. I wish you good luck. Edited January 5, 2008 by gamavor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 My wish is, has always been that we don’t talk about those damn people. However I could not resist the temptation. Below an artice from Mirror on line 1-4-08. Please ignore what he says about Dashnak-Mashnak. Maybe not. Remember that the Mirror is the organ of the Ramkavars.. --- From the Mountains of Ararat By James R. Russell I am an American Jewish scholar, a Zionist, and though I have devoted a lifetime to studying the culture of Armenia, it is not my own. Nonetheless, it is fascinating, perplexing and relevant to, and intertwined with, important Jewish issues today. Armenia's uniqueness among the countries of the Near East is striking: Unlike surrounding Georgia, Kurdistan and Iran, it has no indigenous Jewish community; yet its history is more closely analogous to our own than that of any other nation. The Armenians formed the first Christian state, one that has endured in embattled isolation and proud independence: In their literature, written in a unique script unchanged over 15 centuries, the Armenians accordingly identify themselves with the Maccabees. Their stubborn determination to be themselves, and to be free, made Armenians the object of fear and hatred in the disintegrating Ottoman Empire. During World War I, they endured the 20th century's first genocide, a term coined some years later by a Jewish jurist, with the avowed purpose of giving legal definition to this unprecedented crime. At the time the Turkish rulers called their campaign a "jihad." The people of a handful of Armenian villages on Musa Dagh, a mountain on Turkey's Mediterranean coast, just north of the present-day Syrian border, fought off several Turkish armies until the French navy rescued the survivors. The year before Hitler came to power an Austrian Jew, Franz Werfel, published his novel, The Forty Days of Musa Dagh. The Nazis banned it, its best-selling author fled to the United States, and in 1939 the German dictator assured his generals that just as nobody remembered the Armenians, whatever the Germans might do in Poland, they would never be punished for it. As the Wehrmacht advanced in 1942 through North Africa, some leaders of the pre-state Jewish community in Israel even talked about preparing for a last stand on Mt. Carmel on the model, not of Masada, but of Musa Dagh. Not all the Armenians were murdered: Many fled into the northeastern part of their ancient homeland, still ruled then by the Russian Empire; and in 1918, the first independent Armenian state in half a millennium was proclaimed at the capital, Erevan. But a bitter civil war ensued among the Armenians: The Communists took control, the centrist government of the Dashnak (Armenian Revolutionary Federation) party fled into exile, and Armenia disappeared behind the IronCurtain. America, fearful of the Red Menace and anxious to maintain good relations with strategically important Turkey, did indeed forget the Armenians. In 1935, the State Department, acceding to Turkish pressure, even forced MGM in Hollywood to cancel production of a film version of Werfel's book. The embittered Dashnaks had in the meantime embraced racist and fascist ideology. On Christmas Day of 1933, at an Armenian church in Manhattan, twoof their leaders disemboweled a political opponent, Archbishop Leon Tourian, during mass, in full view of thousands of parishioners. In Boston, their newspaper Hayrenik (Fatherland) praised the German Fuehrer and youths of the Tseghagron ("Race Worship") group marched. Hitler intended to finish off the Armenians, though, and the Luftwaffe dropped leaflets over Erevan inviting the local Azerbaijani Turks to sharpen their knives. In fact, Soviet Armenia lost a quarter of its population in the fight against fascism. Meanwhile, in New York, Avedis Derounian, a young man from a family of genocide survivors who himself had witnessed the murder of Archbishop Tourian, vowed to waken the US to the dangers of homegrown fascism. After the war, he traveled to the Middle East, and in his 1950 report on that trip, =80=9CFrom Cairo to Damascus,' described how Nazism had been transplanted into the Arab world and offered the prescient declaration that radical Islam would prove to bea greater and more enduring danger to mankind than Communism. Derounian saw Israel as the model for a free and democratic Armenia, and felt instinctively that Jews were his brethren. Many Armenians, however, were and are on the other side of the Arab-Israel divide; some Armenians had even supported the Nazis and Israel, for its part, was to find it politic to court Turkey's friendship. In Jerusalem four years ago, a young Armenian nurse who was to be honored on Israel Independence Day for her work rehabilitating victims of suicide bombings had to watch as Turkish pressure on the Israeli government led the ceremony's organizers to remove from the program all reference to her family having been survivors of the Genocide. Armenians have reacted to this kind of holocaust denial with justifiable rage. As Harvard's only professor of Armenian studies, I have found myself attempting to negotiate a viable, middle way, and have suggested that the Jewish community in America support Genocide recognition by the US, which Israel might then follow, in the face of Turkish threats, which have included an attempt to blackmail the small Sephardic community in Turkey. Turkish intellectuals and defenders of human rights, like the historian Taner Akcam and the Nobel Prize-winning writer Orhan Pamuk, have insisted at great personal risk that Turkey reexamine its past. We should support them. At the same time, I have pointed out, one needs to recognize that there is real anti-Semitism in the Armenian community, and scapegoating of Israel and Zionism often goes well beyond the issues and becomes a cover for deeper hatreds. The Dashnaks, Hitler's wartime buddies, who are still a presenceboth within Armenia and in the diaspora, have jumped on the anti-Israel bandwagon, championing the Palestinian cause on American campuses. Their central committee sponsors a traveling circus called "Armenians and the Left," featuring Israel-bashers like Noam Chomsky and Robert Fisk. Hannah Arendt was right: Anti- Semitism is the only survivor of the totalitarian ideologies of the last century. Not only that, but the "socialism of fools" is truly international again, and gaining strength. So if it comes to it, I'll leave my books and shoulder a rifle on Musa Dagh or Mt. Carmel. But until then I'll carry on studying the mystical meditations, poems and myths of the ancient and indestructible people from the mountains of Ararat, the Armenians. (James R. Russell is Mashtots Professor of Armenian Studies at Harvard University. This article was first published in Haaretz, 12/21/07.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 I am a storng supporter of this fact, Anahid jan, in my lifetime there is no such a thing as a jewish nationality... where is their nation, what is their history, do they have one? the Genocides of the 20th century have been religious attacks to exterminate Jews and on the other hand christians... that's where the world war broke out, war of the religions!!! might be a prophecy but very close to the truth!!! Whaaatever you want to call them. Bunch of people, nationality, I know this for sure; they are a heck of a lot more than a bunch of people with the same religion (crypto jews or jews). Their body structures, skeletons, eyes, facial and their behaviours are all the same. With them it is not only jewish religion but a bunch of people who are more alike than just a similar religion or behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Anahit, as Arturian you miss once again the point, by the way, in the meeting with my jewish doctor in philosophy (you know the ones with this "jewish face and eyes" as you quoted) the dashnag parti of Europe was highly represented Dashnaks highly represented? What are you talking about? Come out and say it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Whaaatever you want to call them. Bunch of people, nationality, I know this for sure; they are a heck of a lot more than a bunch of people with the same religion (crypto jews or jews). Their body structures, skeletons, eyes, facial and their behaviours are all the same. With them it is not only jewish religion but a bunch of people who are more alike than just a similar religion or behaviour. Come on Anahid jan, you know a jew when you see one just like you know a muslim when you see one, why are we having a religious discussion in here, let's just not get there... Jews against Armenians is like saying Mulsims against Armenians, how about in a discussion we specify the races!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 This statement is 75% correct! I am far from representing anybody else except myself. As to the Jew doctor - he is a TYPICAL representative of his faith and race. If you want me to, I can go ahead and make a long post with all Jewish actions against Armenian cause (esp. in USA), starting from the 30's of the last century and going through Judeo-Turkish academic chairs in USA, who outright deny the very existence of the murder of the Armenian nation at the hands of the Turkish government in 1915. Even then, you would still not believe it because the Jewish propaganda so much brainwashed you that your psych simply cannot comprehend such malicious attitude on the part of the holy Jews. Very good point Gamavor!!!!! I see that "No Comment" has been gravely affected by the so called the Jewish propagandists!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Come on Anahid jan, you know a jew when you see one just like you know a muslim when you see one, why are we having a religious discussion in here, let's just not get there... Jews against Armenians is like saying Mulsims against Armenians, how about in a discussion we specify the races!!! Well that's what I am trying to say Ashot. I very well know a Jew when I see one, that's for sure! That's fine with me Ashot, I mean to have a discussion to specify the races! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Well that's what I am trying to say Ashot. I very well know a Jew when I see one, that's for sure! That's fine with me Ashot, I mean to have a discussion to specify the races! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 NoComment, Tashnagtsagan leaders had no similarities bodily structures or otherwise with the Crypto Doenme Zionist Jews of the time. For the simple fact that Tashnag leaders wouldn't have allowed it. I understand some would want to throw vicious lies and badmouth Tashnagtsoutyoun and their leadership; but then we cannot close their mouths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 NoComment, Tashnagtsagan leaders had no similarities bodily structures or otherwise with the Crypto Doenme Zionist Jews of the time. For the simple fact that Tashnag leaders wouldn't have allowed it. I understand some would want to throw vicious lies and badmouth Tashnagtsoutyoun and their leadership; but then we cannot close their mouths. However, we all must stop this - including the dashnaks, we must stop separating ourselves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 However, we all must stop this - including the dashnaks, we must stop separating ourselves... You have a right to say that! To me, an Armenian is an Armenian is an Armenian. Tashnagtsagan, Ramgavar, Henchagyan, Hayasdanci, Suriahay or Lipananahay. Thus we are all Hyes. We can belong to a party or not but we must all try not to go to extremes, to go backward and think for a minute what the end result is as a united and a one nationality and how far should and can we go by supporting our party. And yes we must start associating ourselves as a united and a one nationality by aiding each other for the good of ourselves in the diaspora, to support our cause against "jermak chart" for our youth and at the same time to aid our Republic and Artsax for her eternal existence and for her continued prosperity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artusian Posted January 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Dear Artusian, You know what I think? I think that most jews are supporting the turks or the furks in this case; because they're afraid that when the Genocide is accepted finally by most world powers, the truth will come out that the Ittihadists were Doenme Jews. I think that this frightens them and also they want to monopolize incessantly talking about their Haulocaust and continuously having the world feel sorry for them and only them. Dear Anahid, thank a lot. My only intention was to bring out the problems of this man, who has lots hate in his post. I only want to say that his behavior is really dangerous, for all Armenians, the way he talks is terrible It is surprising that he even dares to say openly with his name That is arrogance. I want to show the problem the man cause Artusian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 You have a right to say that! To me, an Armenian is an Armenian is an Armenian. Tashnagtsagan, Ramgavar, Henchagyan, Hayasdanci, Suriahay or Lipananahay. Thus we are all Hyes. We can belong to a party or not but we must all try not to go to extremes, to go backward and think for a minute what the end result is as a united and a one nationality and how far should and can we go by supporting our party. And yes we must start associating ourselves as a united and a one nationality by aiding each other for the good of ourselves in the diaspora, to support our cause against "jermak chart" for our youth and at the same time to aid our Republic and Artsax for her eternal existence and for her continued prosperity. Anahid jan, I don't belong to any of those that u mentioned, I am just an Armenian~~~ but I would want to know ~ what will you and your party, group members, or whatever you want to call them "the Dashnaks" will and are going to do for this cause, what are you guys willing to do to make it happen, the UNITY, the end of separatism, the ONE VOICE FOR ALL needs to be started, and I would like to know how will it start, surely it's not going to start with me because I am a minority of the minority... Besides Anahid if there is anyone else who is a member of the clans, groups or whatever they are I want your opinions and statements too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Dear Anahid, thank a lot. My only intention was to bring out the problems of this man, who has lots hate in his post. I only want to say that his behavior is really dangerous, for all Armenians, the way he talks is terrible It is surprising that he even dares to say openly with his name That is arrogance. I want to show the problem the man cause Artusian Art jan, thank you for the topic, it was a very helpfull one to get to know few more things around here! It sure was usefull to lead to one thing from another, if you don't mind we shall continue this topic to it's extend, if you do we shall remove our arguements that are off the topic to a new topic... I don't think you would mind since you are somewhat interested in the convo Thank you again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artusian Posted January 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Art jan, thank you for the topic, it was a very helpfull one to get to know few more things around here! It sure was usefull to lead to one thing from another, if you don't mind we shall continue this topic to it's extend, if you do we shall remove our arguements that are off the topic to a new topic... I don't think you would mind since you are somewhat interested in the convo Thank you again! Ashot jan, please continue your talk here, as I can learn and then all we can find out the way of mind of the man like that doctor. It is very important. Please continue here do not separate it. I like your arguments on this topic and thread. Thanks Artusian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Ashot jan, please continue your talk here, as I can learn and then all we can find out the way of mind of the man like that doctor. It is very important. Please continue here do not separate it. I like your arguments on this topic and thread. Thanks Artusian U got it boss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artusian Posted January 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 U got it boss! Thanks Ashot jan for continuing here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Thanks Ashot jan for continuing here NO!! Please let us NOT continue. I would strongly urge our mods to hide this thread. We should have better subjects to talk about than those damn people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 NO!! Please let us NOT continue. I would strongly urge our mods to hide this thread. We should have better subjects to talk about than those damn people. Arpa jan our conversation has changed to Uniting Armenians in Diaspora! so I would be more than glad to argue and express myself for the cause!!! By my understanding we are already over those damn people I know how you feel!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Arpa jan our conversation has changed to Uniting Armenians in Diaspora! so I would be more than glad to argue and express myself for the cause!!! By my understanding we are already over those damn people I know how you feel!!! By all means. Let us talk about "unity" or the lack thereof, but under its proper topic. Which rminds me the words of Ter Voghormia where it says; "Tour ashkharhis khghaghoutuin, Azgis Hayots ser MIUTIUN". I don't remember when this was written but it shows lack of unity is not a recent thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artusian Posted January 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Please do not hide the thread. The thread is meant to reveal the nature of the individual, the doctor. Important to know. If you wish we discuss other topics in other area but please not hide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoComment Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 (edited) very sad to see that you can see a symbol of "unity" between you and denialist, between armenians who still are believers and cary out values (by the way Shenoravor Sourp Zenount) and those armenian with furkish values (hate and denial) when Arpa come with an article by James R.Russell, he did specified "Please ignore what he says about Dashnak-Mashnak". you should Arpa djan specified the opposite, when so called dashnak supporters in this forum developp openly antisemitisism view without any clue of the damage they are causing to this party and to the armenians. Yes the disgusting behaviour of the jewish community by not all supporting us is to be hardly blame, but absolutely, absolutely not by this kind of arguments Be united and sympathetic to all the victims of genocide -> "Solidarity for the Befallen" Edited January 6, 2008 by NoComment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoComment Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 http://video2.armenews.com/IMG/08Vehapar1.wmv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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