Russian School Taken Hostage

[gamavor]

Shaunt, why don't you go and study their history in Chechnya, on the spot so to speak. Why should we care about those that readily join our enemies? Why should I feel any remorse for those bastards in case they are obliterated? Hell, I don't want to see any Armenians dead, period.

[Teutonic Knight]

Stfu, what the hell do you know about these savages and their history?

They didn't even exist as a distinct people until a centeury or two ago.

 

Their history with Russia is as follows:

 

In 1864, Chechens, after a long and bloody struggle for freedom, surrendered to Tsarist Russia.

 

The Caucasian War as this war is commonly referred to by historians was provoked by the voluntary integration of Georgia into the Russian Empire. Other Caucasians felt isolated and surrounded by the Russian Empire and betrayed by the Georgians. Georgians(Christians) united with the Russian Empire because their integrity was threatened by Islamic terror all around. This can be checked at the national archives of Georgia. Russia didn’t want to unite with Georgia rather Russians wanted to provide assistance to their fellow Christians against the barbarians only. Because then they would have to protect those borders. King George XII, pleaded for help in 1798 and finally Emperor Aleksandr I decided to help and unite with Georgia. More than enough evidence to show that Russia had no imperial ambitions. Georgia faced total physical annihilation and their neighbours with the same faith helped them more than anyone would. Chechen barbarian tribes kept on attacking the new Russian border and the Tsar was forced to take action. 77,000 Russian lives were lost because of meaningless Chechen aggression. Not to mention that many more mountain dwellers fell in that war, killed by the Chechen dagger.

 

 

In 1901, about 700 families migrated from Chechenya to Turkey. Of this group, about 200 families returned to Chechenya, while 300 families settled in Turkey and 200 families settled in Jordan.

 

Some of the herd joins their genocidal mongoloid brethren to commit more crimes against humanity.

 

After WWII, Chechen members of the Red Army who were prisoners of war in Nazi Germany refused to return to Chechenya since the Chechen nation had already been exiled in 1944 to Siberia by Stalin. These Chechens settled in Germany, Turkey and the U.S.A.

 

Siberia? Stalin relocated Chechens to Kazakhstan starting in 1943, but not because he hated them (if he hated them, he would have killed a lot more of them as he killed thousands of Russians, Ukrainians, Armenians etc.)

 

In 1922, in a reversal of its recognition, Bolshevik Russia invaded and occupied the Republic of the North Caucasus Federation.

 

The Caucasus rejected both the White Guards of General Denikin and the Red Army. Nobody wanted Soviet power to be established in the region or anywhere else for that matter. On the other hand here’s a quote from the Daghestani Council of People’s Commissars: “In view of such particularly bandit-like neighbour as Chechnya, measures are being taken to restore order and protect the people from attacks. Local self-defense units are to be established for such protection, and resources are to be found for their maintenance.” Imam Shamyl used identical words describing the situation long before Soviets came to power.

 

Through the 70's Soviet Russia treated Grozny (capital of Chechenya) as enemy territory, where night time curfews were imposed routinely.

 

Curfews were placed because several gangs were robbing, raping and terrorizing the civilian population apart from vandalizing state property.

 

 

On Nov 23 - 25 1990, a national Chechen conference convened in Grozny. The conference included delegates representing all ethnic groups of Chechenya, including Russians and Cossacks.

 

Whatever happened to the Russians, Cossacks, Armenians, ethnic Georgians and others? In addition, there were no Russian or Cossack delegates participating in that conference

 

 

On Nov 25, 1990, the delegates to the conference declared the independence and sovereignty of Chechenya and its cessation from the former Soviet Union.

 

Yes, the Chechens did. Too bad they did not meet the requirements as other soon to be independent states did under international law. Their decision was not democratically made, merely a small factor originating from Grozny.

 

On Oct 27, 1991, in fulfillment of constitutional requirements, a national Chechen referendum was held. The Chechen nation approved the declaration of independence and elected Gen. Dzhokar Dudayev as the first elected president of the independent Chechen Republic by a margin of 84% from among 3 contendors for presidency.

 

As a Republic within the Russian Federation just like Daghestan, Bashkiria, Buratia, Tatarstan etc.

 

 

In addition, lets not forget that Russia gave full independence to the Chechen republic in 1996. In 1999 Russians had to pay for their horrible mistake. Wide-scale aggression against Russia, the republic of Dagestan, took place under the slogan of creating a Muslim theocracy ... by tearing apart territories of the Russian Federation. What does that have to do with Chechnya's independence? Their leaders vowed to takeover Moscow-Russia, Yerevan-Armenia and eventually Washington by the end of the year 2000. Would you like me to start quoting Shamil Bassaev ? Their only goal is to create a global caliphate. They are talking about the need to kill all kafirs [infidels], all non-Moslims, or Crusaders, as they say. If you are not a Muslim, you are in danger! If you decide to reject your faith and become an atheist, you are also subject to liquidation according to their way of thinking... You are in danger! It’s your problem and one day your idiocy will bite you hard in the ass when you least expect it. Evidently an independent Chechnya is dangerous for Russian interests and as well as Global, because it would mean the beginning of the decomposition of the region as we know it. Chechnya is an internationally recognised part of Russia since centuries.

Even in during the war Russia made every possible concession when other countries like my own would not even consider them in a similar situation. The legacy was murder, drug trafficking, slave trade, and kidnappings. High casualty count? If you’re Chechen and your relative is a terrorist and you support him (maybe not willingly, but just as a member of the family, and family ties are traditionally extremely strong in Chechnya), this automatically places you on the other side of the law and you are no longer a civilian. Most Chechen bandits pose as civilians anyway. Russian troops tried to avoid heavy casualties, so they relied heavily on artillery and aviation. Russia could destroy every single Chechen in a matter of days without any of its own casualties yet they made sure that no innocent civilians get hurt. Russian army relied on long-range weapons to avoid the casualties, just as we relied on aviation in Afghanistan after 911. Our army is the best in the world. We have a professional army with plenty of well-trained infantry, while Russia did not have much choice in Chechnya but to use aviation and artillery as much as possible.

 

Funny thing is most Chechens who are Sufis not Wahhabists are the victims of the insane military leaders and foreigners that occupy that region. They don’t like them anymore we do. They don’t have much choice and support those animals because they know they will be killed like many others before them by their own people.

The region had 1,300.000 people before the dissolution of the USSR. 300 thousand were Russians along with Armenians, Georgians and other Christians. What happened with those 300,000? They were brutally murdered and deported by Islamist gangs who took control of the area by force.

[gamavor]

http://www.izvestia.ru/osetia/article343614

[kakachik77]

They don't deserve to live period.

In any case Chechens are indeed natives of those lands, it's just thay they have always been primitive, barbaric and tribal. Never having any form of a government or an organized social structure of their own.

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

Agree. And please people stop juxtaposing Armenians and Chechens. Armenians were the civilized culture conquered and dominated by parasite Ottomans. Chechens were a nomadic bunch again taken over by Russians who educated and tried to enlighten them (why do they have russian sounding last names - because before they did not even have last names, they were herding sheep in the mountains and now they want to kill innocent children to achieve independence). And please don't forget that if Russians were not in Caucasus our little Armenia would probably don't even survive.

Edited September 9, 2004 by kakachik77

[gamavor]

http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/101/39...3_Akhmadov.html

 

"The inconstancy of the Saxons

was a cause of great trial to him: "

[shaunt]

Why should we care about those that readily join our enemies?

 

Yes, "those" who join hands with our enemy we need not our compassion. But the set containing "those" people does not include every single Chechen.

 

Teutonic Knight, you have successfully repeated the words that the Russian government has stated about the Chechens for the past God knows how many decades.

 

They didn't even exist as a distinct people until a centeury or two ago.

 

You are equating the existence of a state with ethnic identity; that is what is wrong with this claim.

[gamavor]

Do you know how the recruitment process is implemented among Chechens? Usually, their Shamans, or Elders chose among their stock the best fit and combat ready, then they go to his parents and say: Listen, we have chosen your son or daughter! End of conversation. What follows next is "training" and Islamic Indoctrination. (Americans are expert on that, because even Bin Laden is their "product"). If they (or he/she) refuse to be part of them the outcome is dead. This was the way in which Turks recruited Janissaries and this was the way how Hamidie groups were created.

[bellthecat]

Stfu, what the hell do you know about these savages and their history?

 

A hell of a lot more than you know.

 

But however disapointing, stupid, offensive and downright repulsive T.K. and others are on this subject, this thread has been useful in that it is a good test to sort out the filth from the decent people here.

Edited September 7, 2004 by bellthecat

[Accelerated]

...apparently there were Russians (criminals) among the hostage takers, but why would they take part in a suicide mission like this?

[Stormig]

Some brilliant gems from people - for Armenia to exist today, the Russian had to descend to the Caucasus and fool around with not just Chechens but literally a score of other nations. It's like thanking Europeans, justifying their actions, for annihilating Native Americans so that America could exist today.

[bellthecat]

Some brilliant gems

 

Naw, merely glass paste

[gurgen]

I know for a fact that Chechens come to Holland with the sole purpose of killing Russians who live here, Russians who don't have anything to do with anything. Now talk about filth.

 

And you're defending those people...

[Sasun]

It is true that there is something peculiar and disturbing about Chechen culture, for example their thinking that they are higher than others, particularly Russians, that Russians should work for them or pay taxes, that they are free to kill "low" people going against their rules, etc. Some elements of their culture are considered immoral & unacceptable by every other culture, and in some instances they are downright illegal in any normal society.

Yet, Chechens as a whole have a right to live and not to be punished for some rudimental elements in their culture or religious fanaticisms of a certain small part of their society. They also have the right to claim freedom from anyone even if it was true that they were barbarians in the recent past.

[Nakharar]

Or the present... They are always free to try, but they should always make a cost and benefit analysis or they might end up like us.

[Azat]

Stfu, what the hell do you know about these savages and their history?

 

TK,

watch your mouth and control yourself. if you do not you will get a warning.

[Nakharar]

Some of the comments here are just atrocious. The eliminationist mindset is holding sway over most Armenians. I hope they aren't the same ones who constantly beg for the recognition of the Genocide and cry pity the whole time. I would like to see those, who call for the destruction of another people, in the same place as those hostages. The bravado of these armchair pundits would end at an instant.

[gurgen]

I hope they aren't the same ones who constantly beg for the recognition of the Genocide and cry pity the whole time.

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

What does that have to do with Chechen terrorist attacks? Don't you agree that these killings need to stop? I think it has been proved that there's no reasoning with a nation that has a 10% population living on kidnapping.

Bombing would be an excellent idea, I don't see you (or any American) crying over Nagasaki or Hiroshima or Dresden for that matter.

[bellthecat]

Stfu, what the hell do you know about these savages and their history?

They didn't even exist as a distinct people until a centeury or two ago.

 

Their history with Russia is as follows:

 

In 1864, Chechens, after a long and bloody struggle for freedom, surrendered to Tsarist Russia.

 

The Caucasian War as this war is commonly referred to by historians was provoked by the voluntary integration of Georgia into the Russian Empire. Other Caucasians felt isolated and surrounded by the Russian Empire and betrayed by the Georgians.  Georgians(Christians) united with the Russian Empire because their integrity was threatened by Islamic terror all around. This can be checked at the national archives of Georgia. Russia didn’t want to unite with Georgia rather Russians wanted to provide assistance to their fellow Christians against the barbarians only. Because then they would have to protect those borders. King George XII, pleaded for help in 1798 and finally Emperor Aleksandr I decided to help and unite with Georgia. More than enough evidence to show that Russia had no imperial ambitions. Georgia faced total physical annihilation and their neighbours with the same faith helped them more than anyone would. Chechen barbarian tribes kept on attacking the new Russian border and the Tsar was forced to take action. 77,000 Russian lives were lost because of meaningless Chechen aggression. Not to mention that many more mountain dwellers fell in that war, killed by the Chechen dagger.

 

Russia annexed the various Georgian kingdoms (in 1801, 03, and 04) mainly because she wanted more access to the Black sea, and a route to aquire territory in Persia and thus gain access to the Caspian.

 

There is no such thing as "The Caucasian War" - they are known as the "Murid Wars", named after a type of Muslim priest-warrior who was the main core of Shamyls resistance force against the Russian invasion of Chechnia. Before the Russian invasion the Chechens were not particularly religious, and most of the leaders, including Shamyl, came from outside Chechnia and were not even Chechen. The wars lasted for over half a century.

 

And the Chechens had lived in that region since at least before the days of the Arab conquests since they are mentioned in Arab accounts.

 

The rest of that "history" is so silly that it is really not worth my time to disect it. Where did you get it from?

[Nakharar]

It's pretty obvious that I meant the Chechens and whatever nationality they have up there. I don't remember advocating terrorists' rights anywhere. Read the comments made by some of the people here and you will see what I mean. Generalizations will get us only so far. They only contribute to more bloodshed and sorrow. We should know better.

[gurgen]

I wonder if some of you have ever met a Chechen. Just look into his eyes and you will have nightmares for a week.

[Nakharar]

I wonder if some of you have ever met a Chechen. Just look into his eyes and you will have nightmares for a week.

 

With that description I'm not so sure if I want to meet one.

[gamavor]

Chechnya was/is part of the Russian Federation. Never been independent republic and never been socialist, democrat or any other type of republic. She was administrative unit within Russia and Russia itself was federative republic of USSR. The rest of the fifteen constituting of USSR republics were nominally members of the Union "voluntarily". Read the Old Soviet Constitution and you will see that at least on paper the republics have had much power than lets say the States of USA.

 

The world turned blind eye to Armenian Genocide for political reasons. To this day USA, UK and Turkey (the holy trinity) are opposing any measures acknowledging the gruesome past of our ancestors. I don't understand why Armenians should care about their enemies, because Chechens are our enemies and as soon as they get to an opportunity they wouldn't hesitate a second to attack us.

 

This is typical Armenian pathology. The hell with them and their friends!

[gamavor]

http://www.skorbim.ru/index.php

[Teutonic Knight]

Our Disgrace

By Robert Bruce Ware

Published on September 07, 2004

 

 

One feels ashamed to be an English-speaker. More that 330 innocent people are dead. Most of them are children.

 

Some were shot in the back as they fled. But the children were not yet buried before much of the media in the United States and Britain began their pointless and predictable ritual of second guessing, and then blaming, the Russian authorities. The same stale misconceptions and misinformation were once again rehearsed. All so easy, all so mindless.

 

In October 2002, Chechen terrorists (not "militants", not "rebels", not "separatists") took more than 800 hostages in a theater in Moscow. Russian law enforcement officials pumped gas into the hall in a flawed and risky attempt to immobilize the terrorists, and then stormed the building. More than 120 hostages died along with all of the terrorists. The remainder of the hostages were rescued. In the months that followed the western media was full of blame for the Russian authorities. Yet if American or Israeli officials had been faced with a similar hostage crisis, and had managed to save 80 percent of the hostages, the same media would have hailed their operation as a brilliant success.

 

After 9/11 neither Russia citizens nor Russian officials blamed Americans or American officials for the tragedy. How would Americans have felt if they had? Instead Russian citizens and officials alike found the decency simply to sympathize with us.

 

To their credit American officials have placed responsibility for the Beslan tragedy on the shoulders of the terrorists who perpetrated it. American officials have offered support for their Russian counterparts.

 

But where is the elementary decency of our media? From them we learn that Russians have little regard for human life; that Russian troops should have established a wider perimeter; that Ossetian parents should have been kept away; that Russia should negotiate with responsible Chechen militants whom no one ever seems capable of naming, and so on and on. Everyone sitting comfortably at their computers all around the world has a crystalline comprehension of the steps-- whether tactical, strategic, political, psychological, or military-- that should have been taken before, during, and after Beslan.

 

But as Sting somehow managed to recognize even during the Reagan administration, Russians love their children too. Anyone who has spent more than a week in the North Caucasus knows that it would have been easier to control the moon and the tides than to control the parents of the children in that school. People in Beslan did, and are doing, their best in the face of a situation that was and is absolutely incomprehensible, and no one outside of Beslan should pretend for a moment that they comprehend it.

 

Those western writers who have the shamelessness to pretend that they do have such comprehension for the sake of nothing more than another empty piece of boilerplate are a disgrace to all of us who share their language.

 

Robert Bruce Ware is an associate professor at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville

[gamavor]

This is exactly the F***** American moral!