skhara Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Ten bucks says, this guy Danial Schnieder is a Jew. Furthermore, I don't want him to "connect" his own peoples so-called illegitimate "struggle" with the very legitimate struggle of the Armenian people, our martyrs deserve more then being connected to a government that uses the AG to push forward their own agenda forward. Well said TMNT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMNT Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 TMNT, you did not read the article attentively. He is talking about this issue in historical perspective (19th, 20th century). In this context Jews were once a stateless people. Also, he is emphacising the concept of stateless peoples being explaited by superpowers more than anything else in the article. style_images/master/snapback.png Armen, I did read the article attentively and I am "dumbfounded" as to how the superpowers exploited Israel and the Jewish people? How are they "victims"? There not, after WW2 Zionist dumped Jews in the middle of Arabs and called it Israel, I don't see the victim connection nor do I understand how they were exploited. IF anything Palistinians were exploited and would be the equivalent of superpowers dumping Azeris' in the middle of Artsahk and calling it Azerbaijan. What right do they have to dictate boundaries? They don't have the right and if the "boundaries" of Palistine were "indefinite" then, then equally, the boundaries of Azerbaijan are indefinite today, meaning, Artsahk is a part of Armenia and anyone who says otherwise is a hypocrite. However, my half ass analysis omits important facts that need to pointed out. Nations are not dictated by "boundaries", meaning, boundaries are only created to push forward the agenda of the forces that created them, therefore, true boundaries are dictated by people. Armenians have been living in Artsahk for MANY, MANY years before Azeris' moved in, therefore, they have the VERY legitimate right to separate from Azerbaijan. On the other hand the same can not be said of the Jewish state. Prior to WW2 there were no Jews in Palestine and therefore, their "struggle" to recognize Israel as a legitimate nation is no different then the "struggle" of Turks to be recognized as a legitimate people, with their own identity. Both are false and both committed genocide in order to achieve this end. If the author is referring to the creation of the Jewish state as a satellite state in order to increase the reach of the west, then yes, that would be "exploitation" only if the "exploited" population was not aware, but we do know that the Jews, specifically, Zionist wanted the to create a Jewish state as much as the west wanted a satellite. Therefore, in this context I do not see the creation of Israel as a "exploitation" nor do I see Jews as “victims” because a true "victim" as defined by Webster, who incidentally could have been a Jew, is "a person cheated, fooled, or injured". Now, in your honest opinion, what groups of people were "cheated, fooled, or injured"? Palestinians or Jews? Palestinians, I rest my case, have a good weekend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted June 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 TMNT, I don't have energy to take that tiresome and hopeless journey deep into the specifics of Jewish-Palestinian conflict and especially its historical part. Just take a notice that lately each and ever thread ends up being about Jews and everything that surrounds them. Your response was way off topic in the first place. The fact that an article mentions Jews somewhere does not mean that you have to derail the whole discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Jews, Kurds, Arabs, and Armenians aside... This article doesn't even mention the Assyrians/Arameans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted June 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 This article doesn't even mention the Assyrians/Arameans! style_images/master/snapback.png It does not mention them because the Assyrian question was never exployted for geopolitical purpose by big power. Or maybe I don't know about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMNT Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 TMNT, I don't have energy to take that tiresome and hopeless journey deep into the specifics of Jewish-Palestinian conflict and especially its historical part. Just take a notice that lately each and ever thread ends up being about Jews and everything that surrounds them. Your response was way off topic in the first place. The fact that an article mentions Jews somewhere does not mean that you have to derail the whole discussion. NO, Armen, it has everything to do with the article. I resent the fact that the author tries to make the Jewish "struggle" the equivalent of the Armenian, Palestinian, and Kurdish struggle for self determination when the Jewish state directly hinders the progress of Armenians, Palestinians, and Kurds on an international level. Therefore, I feel it is an insult to parallel the progress of the Jewish state with that of the Armenian people. The Jewish state is a fabricated state, while the Armenian nation is a legitimate nation, there is no comparison. I would rather sound "redundant" then bite my tongue for the sake politics. By making excuses and justifications for the actions of Israel, you are also making excuses and justifications for the actions of Turkey, there is no difference, the arms sold to Turkey via America via Israel are still the same arms that threaten the sovereignty of the Armenia and Armenians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted June 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 TMNT, in that case our state was fabricated by Russians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 As for me: I see Diasporan Armenian life as a pointless state of existence. All self-respecting Armenians need to plan for an eventual return to the homeland, even if this means just spending your summers there. Instead of wasting your money vegetating within places like the Bahamas and/or Hawaii go and at least support the tourist industry of your beloved land. I have been to our homeland several times, I have very good and patriotic friends there and, God willing, I am planning on moving my family there within the next five to ten years (once I am financially independent). As far as any one ridiculing me for my "tepi erkir" intentions - tkats unim bolorin vra. And this is coming from a Beirutahai. Hi Armenian Highlander, My grandfather did this in the late 1920's following foolishly the Stalin's apeal to Armenians to come back. He sold everything took the ship and landed in Batumi together with hundreds of other patriotic Armenians. Upon their arrival Stalin's NKVD was waiting for them with "open arms". Once they set foot on Soviet soil they were striped of all the gold and other valuables and left to continue to Yerevan. He died at the age of 43 barely making ends meet and feeding his family. Lets make Armenia decent country and then think about moving there. Acctualy, after that you don't need to invite anybody. People will rush to there naturaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 (edited) I find it VERY sad that out of the countless human rights violations Israel has committed towards the Palestinians you still support them and worse, make excuses for them. How much of the 400 billion dollars in respirations has gone towards making the world a "better place"? None, their "elite" media moguls are arms dealers, while the so-called "fair and balanced" media only exploits world issues to make Israel a better place. Their movie revenue goes towards leveling Palestinian neighborhoods, while the arms they sell are used against Armenian villagers defending their lands against the combined Turkish and Azeri aggression. On top of this, they are as nuclear capable as any superpower. ...... style_images/master/snapback.png TMNT - you are so one-track minded that you're entirely missing the point. Please try and make the distinction between the Isreali governement/policy makers, and your average jew (who is a person like you or me). Your sweeping generalisations are getting old and tired and need to be put to bed. I have asbsolutely no issues with you critiquing Isreali foreign (and domestic) policies and/or the proliferation of nuclear arms in the middle east as 'sactioned' (unofficially, of course) by the USA. In fact, you'll probably find that we'll find more points of agreement, than you think. No where, in any of my posts, will you ever find any 'support' of Isreal (as you put it) - I find their policies with respect to the Palestinians and their blatant disregard of UN resolutions absolutely deplorable. But I won't go ranting and raving in every thread about the 'evil jew'. Please give it a rest - you're sounding a lot like a fanatic. Finally, if we could keep this thread on topic.... Edited June 18, 2005 by vava Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Lets make Armenia decent country and then think about moving there. Acctualy, after that you don't need to invite anybody. People will rush to there naturaly. style_images/master/snapback.png Gams, how do you propose we make Armenia a decent country without actually going there? A nation has to be built from within...."foreign money does not a country make" - i forget who said that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skhara Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 My grandfather did this in the late 1920's following foolishly the Stalin's apeal to Armenians to come back. He sold everything took the ship and landed in Batumi together with hundreds of other patriotic Armenians. Upon their arrival Stalin's NKVD was waiting for them with "open arms". Once they set foot on Soviet soil they were striped of all the gold and other valuables and left to continue to Yerevan. He died at the age of 43 barely making ends meet and feeding his family. Gamavor, When I read your post above, I immediatly thought a film a saw a couple of years back. Here it is: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181530/plotsummary These guys were the whites, the intelligentsia, that escaped to Paris during the time of the Bolshevik takeover. And an off-topic comment: Since I brought up the film. Two of the male actors in the above film, were in a Russian film called "Prisoners of the Caucasus". Its about 2 Russian soldiers captured in a Chechen ambush. The plot: http://www.1worldfilms.com/prisoners_of_the_mountains.htm There is a really funny portion in the movie when the older soldier tells the younger one to say goodbye to certain parts of his privates. The younger soldier asks why. The older one replies that "it's a tradition they have, over any little thing, they cut your balls." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 The Georgian Whites who were the family of my close friend told me that they knew they could NEVER go back. They waited tables in Paris for awhile but eventually married into American aristocracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted June 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 American aristocracy. style_images/master/snapback.png What is that? "Convict" is a title for generations to come. Don't you know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 American aristocracy. Arch-Criminals? Vava, many people from the Diaspora who are financially secure can afford to go to Armenia and help building the future. They are reluctant to make Armenia their home for right now, but at least the seads of brighter and happier Armenia are planted. It doesn't make sense to go there if you don't have anything to offer to make things better. I'm far from saying that everything there is bad, but if you are young parent hardly would choose to live in Armenia under present circumstances. Everything goes according to its own logic. After 10-15 years Europe would be bigger, Russia would be a bit civilized and richer, Middle East would have enjoy relative peace and the prospects for Armenia will be brighter. Only the turks will be the same, but that's OK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboula Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 I saw what you did QueBecR! There were some replies made to those jew defenders and you deleted them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboula Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 (edited) You were the only one here when they were deleted. You left and then came back when I reposted averything that was deleted. Do you want to delete them again? Edited June 23, 2005 by baboula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 I saw what you did QueBecR! There were some replies made to those jew defenders and you deleted them. style_images/master/snapback.png Oh really? In cases you missed that up, I'm not a moderator and have no power of deletion. I'm even not a mod, and I'm accused of moderating, I would have been probably crusified had I been one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboula Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Oh really? In cases you missed that up, I'm not a moderator and have no power of deletion. I'm even not a mod, and I'm accused of moderating, I would have been probably crusified had I been one. style_images/master/snapback.png It's funny but you were the only one here at the time they dissapeared. Either you are able to delete and you are lying. Or you went crying to someone who could delete them. Either way, I know you had something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 It's funny but you were the only one here at the time they dissapeared. Either you are able to delete and you are lying. Or you went crying to someone who could delete them. Either way, I know you had something to do with it. style_images/master/snapback.png No! I had nothing to do with it, I have no reason to lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 I made you posts invisable, not QueBeceR, and you will get a warning for posting them back!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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