Armenian Genocide As Geopolitical Tool

[ED]

No Shift In Armenia's Policy For Genocide Recognition,

MF Spokesman Says

 

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/

 

Yerevan, November 10, ArmenPress: A spokesman for Armenian foreign ministry said Armenia's policy for international recognition of the 1915 genocide has not changed and remains one of its foreign policy priorities. His comment came in response to Azeri and Turkish media reports that Yerevan may be considering a shift in its policy to help normalization of ties with Turkey. The reports claimed the shift may be indicated by lack of a regular reference to the genocide in next year's draft budget sent to parliament for approval.

The spokesman, Hamlet Gasparian, told ArmenPress that the draft budget has no relation to Armenia's consistency and decisiveness to continue the campaign for international recognition of the genocide. (By the way, no previous budget has ever had a special clause earmarking such expenditures).

"The international recognition of the Armenian genocide does not refer to Armenia or Armenians alone, it refers to the entire humanity and it cannot be placed within a budget or other financial calculations," Gasparian said.

[DominO123]

"The international recognition of the Armenian genocide does not refer to Armenia or Armenians alone, it refers to the entire humanity and it cannot be placed within a budget or other financial calculations," Gasparian said.

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[ED]

indeed a great statment, I would love to shake the hand of this man

[Armen]

Edward jan, why would you want to shake his hand. That's the official policy. He is just there to say it

[ED]

Armen jan, I just wanted to shake his hand since the "official policy" doesent have one

 

 

Besides I don’t think official policy had that line as a script for him to say it, I’ll give him a credit for the right words

Edited November 10, 2004 by Edward

[Armen]

Oh, the wording. Yeah, that was smart.

[Sasun]

Well, don't the ones who play these games know exactly who's with whome agaist whome?

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One can at best know his own pieces. Let's say, the president of the US knows all of his pieces and potential moves and capabilities. However, he doesn't know enough as to what the other countries pieces and potential moves are. This is unlike the actual chess game where the rules and pieces are known.

 

As far as we the regular people (or tiny pieces on certain chessboards) are concerned, we don't really know much about any of the geopolitical chess-game settings, so we are even less positioned to know anything correctly.

[Armen]

One can at best know his own pieces. Let's say, the president of the US knows all of his pieces and potential moves and capabilities. However, he doesn't know enough as to what the other countries pieces and potential moves are. This is unlike the actual chess game where the rules and pieces are known.

 

As far as we the regular people (or tiny pieces on certain chessboards) are concerned, we don't really know much about any of the geopolitical chess-game settings, so we are even less positioned to know anything correctly.

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I think current techonogical capabilities and openness of world markets have minimized the variables and the spectre of those variables (be they economic, political or military). So countries like the U.S know a lot about their potential adversaries. The only unkown variable is the ability to act irrationally (e.g. the terrorists).

[Armen]

Zaman Online, Turkey

Nov 30 2004

 

US Pressures Turkey with 'Armenian Genocide Bill'

 

 

Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul has criticized the US for using

the "Armenian Genocide" Bill to pressure Turkey into withholding its

condemnation of the US operation in Felluce (Fallujah). Gul said the

US is implying that if Turkey refers to the events in Fallujah as

genocide, they will approve the Armenian bill. "This would be

blackmail," said Gul and such things are not even the issue.

 

At a reception for Gul's Hungarian counterpart, Ferenc Somogyi, in

Ankara yesterday, Gul discussed reports that the US is using the

'Armenian Genocide' Bill against Turkey to suppress its criticism of

the Fallujah operation. Gul said: "Of course, everything should be

evaluated in context. Using excessive force there [in Fallujah] and

disregarding civilians are a separate issue. Turkey's attitude

concerning the developments is very clear and the reaction of the

public is also clear. Turkey is not the only one to react; the entire

world has reacted. There are even demonstrations in Morocco for the

first time. These are the requirements of open society, but saying

'if you call it genocide, we will do this' becomes extortion. Such

things are unacceptable, and genocide is a completely separate issue,

the legal definition is different." The Minister also sent a message

to the opposition regarding its reaction to the issue. He said when

the operation in Fallujah first fell apart, there was no reaction

from the opposition party or the politicians; however, they are the

first to react and criticize now particularly about him.

 

Dealing with Turkey's expectations on December 17 European Union (EU)

summit, The Foreign Minister has been busy setting Turkey's

expectations for the European Union Summit on December 17th and says

there is no alternative but for the EU to open full membership

negotiations with Turkey, adding that everyone knows it. He also

clarified that there was no reason for a negative attitude about the

decision to be made at the December 17th EU Summit. Furthermore, Gul

said that if Turkey satisfies the full membership obligations and its

responsibilities, it will become a full member of the EU at the

proper time.

 

In response to a question about the appointment of the anti-Turkey

French Finance and Economy Minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, to lead the

Union of Public Movement (UMP) currently in office, Gul emphasized

that French President Jacques Chirac has the power in foreign policy

issues. The Turkish Foreign Minister urged EU leaders to honor its

pact and mentioned that Turkey already has special status within the

EU and more.

[Armen]

Turkey's accession to EU

 

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10452&hl=

[Iran01]

Maybe for some period, but probably not at all. Why would the US and Israel look at what Iran is doing? They would act according to their interests I think.

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Parliament asked to recognize Armenian 'genocide'

 

Wednesday, November 29, 2000 - IranMania.com

 

 

TEHRAN, Nov 29 (AFP) - Armenian members of the Iranian parliament are to ask the assembly to recognise Turkey's 1915-17 "genocide" of Armenians, the centrist daily Entekhab reported Wednesday.

 

The two representatives of Iran's more than 200,000 citizens of Armenian origin want the Iranian parliament to follow similar moves elsewhere, notably in the European parliament.

 

"The genocide of Armenians by Turkey is an undeniable fact which has been recognised by an important number of states throughout the world," MP Leon Davidian told Entekhab.

 

A similar resolution by the Iranian parliament is likely to create further difficulties between Tehran and Ankara, which is criticised by Iran for its close ties with Israel.

 

Armenians claim that some 1.5 million of their number resident in Turkey were killed in an act of genocide during World War I. Ankara categorically rejects the claims as a distortion of history, saying that some 300,000 Armenians and thousands of Turks were killed in internal fighting during the death throes of the Ottoman Empire.

 

Italian deputies and French senators have also backed the Armenian cause in recent votes, as has Pope John-Paul II, though a bill branding the killings as genocide was dropped from the agenda of the US House of Representatives after pressure by President Bill Clinton

 

http://www.iranmania.com/News/ArticleView/...p?NewsCode=4580

 

 

 

 

 

President Of Iran, Seyed Mohammad Khatami

In The Monument Of The Armenian Genocide

 

YEREVAN,9th SEPTEMBER 2004.Iranian President Seyed Mohammad Khatami, in the second day of his official visit to Armenia, visited the Memorial Complex Tsitsernakaberd in Yerevan and laid a wreath on the Memorial for the Victims of the Armenian Genocide in Ottoman Turkey in 1915.

 

Armenia's chief of presidential staff Artashes Tumanian, Yerevan mayor Yervand Zakharian, Armenian deputy foreign minister Ruben Shugarian, and other high-ranking officials accompanied Khatami.

 

The director of the Genocide Museum at Zizernagabert, Lavrenti Barseghian, briefed the Iranian president on the history of the museum, while employees presented him research work on the 1915 Armenian genocide, a map of Armenia, Epos of David of Sasun and a photography album of Mount Ararat.

 

Talking to journalists, Lavrentiy Barseghyan said that the Iranian leader has become the forth Moslem leader to visit Tsitsernakaberd after the presidents of Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan and Lebanon. It is of great importance that the president of such a big country as Iran having friendly relations with us in the South Caucasus visited this place so sacred to every Armenian, Barseghyan said. He expressed hope for recognition of the Armenian Genocide by Iran in the nearest future.

 

 

http://www.ourararat.com/eng/e_khatami.htm

[Armen]

Turkey Approves US Demand for Incirlik Base

 

By Suleyman Kurt

 

Published: Thursday 21, 2005

 

zaman.com

 

Turkey has approved a US demand to use the Incirlik Air Base as a "logistic hub" for humanitarian operations.

 

A decree responding to the US demand will signed by the Turkish Cabinet Council to extend the period of a "secret" decree dated 23 June 2003 for one more year for the second time. It will not be published in the Official Gazette like the former decision. Opponents of the secret decree claimed that it was illegal. If the Cabinet approves it, the US will use the Incirlik Base as the logistic hub for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul, in a speech at Esenboga Airport before his departure for Lithuania yesterday (April 20) said that the process is underway: "In fact there is nothing new. What we have done is to make things more regular. It will be adopted as the extension of former decrees as there are no new dimensions to be considered. I think that the process will be completed soon." Although both Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Gul have explicitly expressed that there was no link between the Armenian genocide allegations and the Incirlik Base decision, it has drawn attention that the decree has been approved before April 24. The US asked Turkey to use the Incirlik Base comprehensively in May 2004 with demands beyond those in the recently approved framework. The previous demands were to use the base for other regional countries beside Iraq and Afghanistan and for military purposes. The agreement reached today was gained after months of negotiations between the two countries.

[Sasun]

Interesting piece of news Armen.

 

Would it ever be the case that Turkey chooses to recognize the Genocide rather than be constantly blackmailed into doing things against its will.

[Armen]

Sasun, I think AG is an essencial part of regional geopolitical architecture. It was ment to be that way, in my opinion. It is interesting to see how perfect is the development of some regional processes simlutaneously with the AG recognition process, developments in Iraq etc. Sometimes it seems that all these factors are notes in front of a modern orchestra director who is performing a simphony written a century ago by a genius composer.

[MosJan]

and the genius composer is ???

[ED]

Wasn’t Godzilla rice in turkey these past few days? and she pledged to do everything so the president does not mention the G word?

 

I'm not even surprised to see this move by Turk government, and I don’t thing Turkey has a better wild card then AG to just so it happens pups up with her geopolitical importance to shove it down once more to where it matters, and berry its self into deeper hole, again, then right about around April 24th……….Just before the President of this malfunctioning and decaying incorporation called USA gives a speech in which our (Armenian) leaders give much importance

 

Do we actually should care if bush mentions the G word or not? I don’t give a damn if he does,

 

What we see around the world is….. the fight for the justice just starting to take shape! and at this stage, and in fact near future, do not expect a sitting American president mention the word GENOCIDE.

[gamavor]

Godzila Rice - I love it!

[Armen]

I don't realy understand why are we investing this much effort into something (recognition) that goes on according to its own logic.

[gamavor]

Agree Armen! We are getting excided like little kids, while somebody else is drumming the drums!

 

I'm personally more excided about what follows after....and I don't want to see that border opened! I have bad gut feeling!

[phantom22]

The Genocide is ALREADY recognized. As has been stated, Dadrian's latest book will close the door upon any questions. It is really not necessary to get recognition anymore. What we need now is real action toward real ends.

[Armen]

Hindustan Times, India

June 16 2005

 

Stateless peoples pose conundrums for great powers

 

Daniel Schnieder (IANS)

 

New Delhi, June 16, 2005

 

There are, in this world, 'inconvenient nations'. These peoples -

often oppressed and bound by language, culture and sometimes religion

- are the unfinished business of modern history.

 

When the wave of nationalism swept the world in the 19th and 20th

centuries and the old empires were carved up, these peoples were left

stateless. In some cases they were divided up, thrown in with nations

that not only didn't share their values or ethnicity but sometimes

also sought their annihilation.

 

The list of the inconvenient nations is mostly a familiar one - Jews,

Armenians, Kurds and Palestinians in the Middle East. Some are less

celebrated - Tibetans and Chechens - and the Taiwanese are relative

newcomers to the group.

 

All of these peoples occupy vital pieces of geography. Their

frustrated national ambitions create political tinderboxes that could

trigger war or deepen existing conflicts. Already some of these

conflicts intersect with the global war against Islamic extremism.

Others could complicate the coming contest for power between China

and the US.

 

Through sheer persistence, some of these peoples have won statehood -

modern Israel and Armenia, with the Palestinians on the verge. Even

then, the boundaries of these states remain contested and their

security at risk.

 

Granting all of these inconvenient nations statehood poses serious

challenges to the existing order in the world.

 

For the US, the country most likely to be an ally of change, they

pose a particular conundrum. In recent years, President George W.

Bush's administration has embraced with great fervour its role as an

agent of transformation through the spread of democracy worldwide.

Invariably, democratic rights have fed the growth of nationalism.

 

At the same time, the US is the guardian of a status quo that largely

serves its interests. Historically, American administrations have

resisted demands for change in boundaries that challenge the

principle of territorial integrity. Inherently conservative, the US

has been uncomfortable with the radical fervour of nationalists

unwilling to compromise on their aims.

 

Great powers have always responded schizophrenically to the

inconvenient nations. They have manipulated stateless peoples'

aspirations for self-rule for their own purposes, but then abandoned

them when ambitions for statehood got in the way of larger interests.

 

In the Middle East, the British, French and others used the desires

for nationhood of Jews, Armenians, Kurds and Palestinians to pick

apart the Ottoman Empire. During and after World War I, in which the

Turks sided with Germany, the allies backed independence for most of

those peoples to encourage anti-Turkish revolts. As soon as the

allies could build their own empires in the region, those promises

were betrayed.

 

In East Asia, the Central Intelligence Agency fed arms to Tibetans

rebelling in the 1950s against Chinese invasion. But the conquered

Tibetans were largely forgotten when the West turned to wooing China.

 

The Taiwanese also have been victims of US fickleness. The US

defended Taiwan as a base for the Chinese who lost the struggle

against Chinese communists. But when native Taiwanese used democracy

in the past decade to assert their desire for a separate identity,

Taiwan became an awkward impediment to partnership with Beijing.

 

To understand the passions and persistence of the inconvenient

nations, look at "the Armenian question," as it has been known since

the 19th century. The Armenians are an ancient Christian people who

once were spread from the Russian-controlled Caucasus down into the

Ottoman Empire, what is now modern Turkey.

 

During the latter half of the 19th century, the mistreatment of

Armenians by the Ottoman Turks became a prominent issue in

international politics. Things only got worse when the Young Turks,

the architects of modern Turkey, overthrew the Ottoman rulers during

World War I. They then carried out what is considered by many to be

the first modern genocide, killing and driving out most Armenians

from Turkey.

 

Still there was hope for a homeland. Amid the chaos after the

Bolshevik revolution, Russian-ruled Armenia, a small part of

historical Armenia, declared its independence and received the

support of President Woodrow Wilson, the champion of national

self-determination. Under a 1920 treaty with the World War I allies,

Turkey was compelled to recognise Armenian independence and to cede

part of what had been its Armenian-populated areas to the new state.

 

But the Armenians were betrayed when Turkey repudiated the treaty,

seized Armenian cities and then made a deal with the invading Russian

army which brought Armenia back under the control of the Soviet

state.

 

The Soviets, who also claimed to champion self-determination,

preserved an Armenian republic within their modern empire. But

Stalin, making deals with the Turks, cynically stripped away some

Armenian-inhabited territories and placed them under the

administration of an Azeri Turkish republic within the Soviet Union.

 

Seven decades later, the Armenians rose to seize back their

independence. In 1988, a movement for the return of the

Armenian-populated territory of Nagorno-Artsax from the Soviet

republic of Azerbaijan signalled the beginning of the disintegration

of the Soviet Union in 1991.

 

The struggle intensified when Armenia won its independence from the

Soviet Union and nationalist passions quickly fanned into a white hot

heat, drawing Armenians from their scattered diaspora in places such

as Beirut, Paris and Los Angeles. In a short but fierce war,

Armenians regained control of Artsax, which they hold tightly to

this day.

 

Today, the Armenian question simmers quietly. Although Russia and the

US support Armenia, both press for the return of Artsax to

Azerbaijan and encourage Armenians there to accept autonomy within

Azerbaijan. Although the boundary lines of Artsax were the product

of Stalin's pen, the great powers insist that they are now inviolable

international frontiers, never to be altered. The defence of

principle, however, is a convenient cloak for a more basic interest:

access to Azerbaijan's rich oil fields.

 

The Kurds next door to the Armenians were also promised statehood out

of the rubble of the Ottoman Empire. They too are an ancient people

whose common identity stretches back more than 2,000 years. Most of

the 20 million Kurds live in a mountainous area straddling Iran, Iraq

and Turkey - countries that have all crushed Kurdish nationhood. In

the modern era, Kurdish nationalism has been encouraged-and

abandoned-by both the US and the Soviet Union.

 

When Washington needed to topple Saddam Hussein, the Kurds regained

favour, providing a base for operations against his government.

Today, when the US seeks to rebuild Iraq as its own bastion of

influence, Kurdish aspirations for separation and self-rule are again

inopportune.

 

For the great powers, inconvenient nations are, by their nature,

irritating. They are single-minded, often undeterred by those who

advise caution or patience. Even as clients, they are hard, if not

impossible, to control.

 

There is some hope these days that globalisation will help diminish

the authority of nation-states - replacing their influence with

multinational corporations and other trans-national entities - and

therefore also diminish the inconvenient nations' drive for

self-rule.

 

But nationalism is hardly a diminished force. Witness the spiralling

tensions between Chinese and Japanese in recent months, fighting and

re-fighting issues more than a half-century old. And French and Dutch

voters recently rejected a new constitution that would more

completely merge those states into a unified Europe.

 

Some in the Bush administration, meanwhile, argued that the spread of

democracy also would cool nationalist flames by giving minorities

such as the peoples of the inconvenient nations more clout in their

current countries.

 

But to the contrary, the more people are free to express their will,

the more nationalism seems to gain fervour. Kurds in Iraq vote

virtually without exception only for Kurds and are no less determined

to eventually be independent of the Arab state.

 

More than other great powers, Americans find the idea of a nation

defined by ethnic identity disturbing. As a country built by

immigrants, America explicitly rejects any ethnic definition of

citizenship. The passions of peoples that seek to separate themselves

from others are often seen as irrational, somehow less acceptable

than our patriotism.

 

Indeed, Americans are remarkably blind to their own bellicose

nationalism, garbed as it is by the assertion of the universality of

American ideals and of self-defence against possible attack.

 

"Since most Americans don't realise that they do have a nationalism

and that it is so strong, perhaps it does make it more difficult for

Americans to appreciate and understand the force of other peoples'

nationalism," said Anatol Lieven, author of America Right or Wrong:

An Anatomy of American Nationalism.

 

History, however, tells us that the inconvenient nations will not go

away. No wave of globalisation can sweep their passions into a dusty

corner forever. And the desire for freedom will not conveniently stop

short of national self-determination.

[TMNT]

The list of the inconvenient nations is mostly a familiar one - Jews,

Armenians, Kurds and Palestinians in the Middle East.

 

Jews are not "stateless" people. A nuclear capable nation with nuclear subs is anything but "stateless". A nation that is the world’s top arms dealer has no right to play the "victim" of the superpowers. If anything, Israel has been the exploiter of the superpowers.

 

Furthermore, comparing the plight of Armenians and Palestinians to those Jews is a stretch. Armenians and Palestinians struggle for their right to exist on their ancestral lands they have lived eons before the imperialistic ambitions of the west and Israel. No superpower has a right to dictate the geographic and historical boundaries of a nation.

 

Conclusion, this is just propaganda for the masses. Once again, Jews are trying to connect their "plight" with those of the Armenians and Palestinians, the only true victims of genocide in the 20th century.

Edited June 18, 2005 by TMNT

[vava]

Jews are not "stateless" people.  A nuclear capable nation with nuclear subs is anything but "stateless".  A nation that is the world’s top arms dealer has no right to play the "victim" of the superpowers.  If anything, Israel has been the exploiter of the superpowers.

 

Furthermore, comparing the plight of Armenians and Palestinians to those Jews is a stretch.  Armenians and Palestinians struggle for their right to exist on their ancestral lands they have lived eons before the imperialistic ambitions of the west and Israel.  No superpower has a right to dictate the geographic and historical boundaries of a nation.

 

Conclusion, this is just propaganda for the masses.  Once again, Jews are trying to connect their "plight" with those of the Armenians and Palestinians, the only true victims of genocide in the 20th century.

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I find it VERY sad that out of the 34 paragraphs in the article above the only thing you can comment on is the 'jews' part. bla bla bla jew jew jew..... is that all you think about?

[TMNT]

I find it VERY sad that out of the 34 paragraphs in the article above the only thing you can comment on is the 'jews' part. bla bla bla jew jew jew..... is that all you think about?

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I find it VERY sad that out of the countless human rights violations Israel has committed towards the Palestinians you still support them and worse, make excuses for them. How much of the 400 billion dollars in respirations has gone towards making the world a "better place"? None, their "elite" media moguls are arms dealers, while the so-called "fair and balanced" media only exploits world issues to make Israel a better place. Their movie revenue goes towards leveling Palestinian neighborhoods, while the arms they sell are used against Armenian villagers defending their lands against the combined Turkish and Azeri aggression. On top of this, they are as nuclear capable as any superpower.

 

By the way, on whose authority are they stockpiling nukes because they sure as hell have not signed any nuclear treaty? Jews, the American government, and Turks are all hypocrites; they point fingers at others when they should pointing fingers at themselves.

 

Let’s be honest with ourselves, if they were not at the seat of power your "tolerance" towards them be minimal if not non-existent. Stop making excuses for them, as an American I have the right to criticize the actions of Israel because my tax dollars goes towards funding their desert wasteland.

 

Ten bucks says, this guy Danial Schnieder is a Jew. Furthermore, I don't want him to "connect" his own peoples so-called illegitimate "struggle" with the very legitimate struggle of the Armenian people, our martyrs deserve more then being connected to a government that uses the AG to push forward their own agenda forward.

 

In closing, Vava, we don't need more Norair Tanielyans'.

Edited June 18, 2005 by TMNT

[Armen]

Jews are not "stateless" people.  A nuclear capable nation with nuclear subs is anything but "stateless".  A nation that is the world’s top arms dealer has no right to play the "victim" of the superpowers.  If anything, Israel has been the exploiter of the superpowers.

 

Furthermore, comparing the plight of Armenians and Palestinians to those Jews is a stretch.  Armenians and Palestinians struggle for their right to exist on their ancestral lands they have lived eons before the imperialistic ambitions of the west and Israel.  No superpower has a right to dictate the geographic and historical boundaries of a nation.

 

Conclusion, this is just propaganda for the masses.  Once again, Jews are trying to connect their "plight" with those of the Armenians and Palestinians, the only true victims of genocide in the 20th century.

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

TMNT, you did not read the article attentively. He is talking about this issue in historical perspective (19th, 20th century). In this context Jews were once a stateless people. Also, he is emphacising the concept of stateless peoples being explaited by superpowers more than anything else in the article.