Boghos Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Dear witch hunter, To call someone a charlatan you should provide with solid proof. I challenge you to go to the court and make your "charlatan" claim, do you have the balls and integrity to do that mr. wise guy? Your so called research is good for nothing in this discussion. While you call yourself a Christian you fail to realize that Jesus Christ would have been accused as a charlatan by people like you. Like todays gurus Jesus also had disciples, like today's gurus Jesus also was betrayed by his disciples. Like todays gurus Jesus also taught them pretty much the same things, to pray, to meditate, to worship God, to be kind to others, to practice spirituality rather than go after worldly pleasures. You and your hero "prophet" Domino fail to back up your claims with anything worthwile. You have only internet gossip on your side. A decent individual and an honest intellectual, when criticizing a person will talk about ideas expressed by the person, will crticize his books, his philosophy. Sri Chinmoy has written more than 1400 books, has written hundreds and thousands of songs, has made thousands of paintings, has given many concernts internationally. I don't think you can find too many people in the history of mankind with such a profile. How many books have you written Boghos? Have you read anything from Sri Chinmoy, do you have any idea whome you are trashing? Does your trashing remind you of anything human? You and Domino are indeed little men ingnorantly attacking a great man like little puppies will bark at an elephant. You are both mindless bashers and slanderers. You both have resorted to disgusting obsceneties portraying your low intellectual level and low degree of morality. And Mr. Boghos, do you think I don't understand why you all of a sudden started to attack me? You had started a stupid thread trying to belittle another forum member, which I removed. Of course, Mr. Boghos, a longtime member, cannot stand that. Therefore I am a "fanatic" and should not be a moderator... have some decency. Sasun, You seem to believe that you are not only superior spiritually speaking, a better human being, one with more integrity and probably even smarter and intelectually more honest than me. In other words you have no sense whatsoever of the ridiculous role you are playing and I will say it again: you are not prepared to moderate at Hyeforum. You say that the reason I attacked your beloved Sri Chinmoy is that you erased a "stupid" post of mine, an attempt to belittle another member. First of all Vigil himself understood the humour in that, secondly we have grown ups here that can defend themselves, if this is the case. You don´t act as a moderator but rather as a vigilante that embarked on his own crusade for "morality". You act as though the threads you moderate are your own feud. I didn´t even know that it was you that removed that thread. How could I know ? Nobody told me. Before you admonish someone to have decency look at yourself. And stop this boring, fanatic, out of place and childish selfrighteousness. You should first respect other members and the forum itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 (edited) Sasun, I do not wish to continue... Before making my final comment, I'll let everyone judge from themselves if I'm the "liar" who you portrayed me being. Those two quotes from 2 different posts of mine. "It is said that they have 4000 followers..." " when the entire followers of the Guru is about 4000, and from a number I found, there is about only 300 disciples... " You insinuated that I have manipulated in the past, and as well made false charges against your Guru... you have even edited one of my posts for making those "charges." Yet, I see no moderators for having edited YOUR post for having made this false charge against me. I NEVER DENIED there was about 4000 followers... I've repeated more than once, and I KNOW IT you have read them!!! Those posts were addressed to you, so you can't claim you havn't read them. If that is not manipulation, I wonder what it is. And for it you have made charges against me which were false. Why don't you use the same standards as you use to protect your Guru, and edit your own post where you made those slanderious charges against me A MEMBER? I REPEAT!!! There is 4000 estimated followers, from it there is 300 disciples of your Guru... when I say disciples(AND I WAS CLEAR HERE), I mean those members of the center where the Guru supposedly reside. The sexual charges against him obviously are made by those present in that center in Particular, NOT THOSE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD. I REPEAT AGAIN FOR THE LAST TIME, AND PAY CAREFUL ATTENTION BECAUSE I WON'T REPEAT IT. FROM THE ESTIMATES, THERE ARE 4000 FOLLOWERS, FROM THEM 300 ARE THE GURUS DISCIPLES, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER "DISCIPLES" ON OTHER CENTERS, I CALL THEM FOLLOWERS, THEY ARE INCLUDED IN THIS WORD OBIOUSLY. So now, who's the stubborn Sasun???? I repeated, and you have even maintained your charge against me. While on this cases you had less ground to maintain your charges against me then me having materials for my charges against your sick Guru. The rest of your post I won't answer... I know the Guru is guilty, like I know the genocide happened, after 5 years on reading testemonials and smelling those that are true and those that are suspicious, I can tell those that are telling the truth... the truth in this cases is not established based on the charges, but rather, those "other" things that are not the "charges." If you were to pass as much time as me reading false and true testemonials, you'll perfectly understand what I mean. Oh, for your own information, since you seem being ignorant about that, abuses by a Guru can be classed in the same category as an incestous abuses... it doesn't come from me. You claim I have lost my credibility? I don't think so, I'm not the one even using PM exchanges contents here to make my point. You lost your credibility the day you've talked about the "new member" in question. This was an attack under the belt, because I was right about what I've reported to you(I've reported to you, because as a moderator you had to know those things), you used personal exchanges for your own profit. I don't care what other load of things you might write, I'm just done with this thread. If you had just 1/10 of the passion you have to protect this Guru on other threads, it will be nice. Edited July 19, 2004 by Fadix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 (edited) Boghos, I am not interested in your rhetoric, if you have charges then you must provide with proof. Unless you do that everyone has a right to blame you of lacking certain moral qualities. You spoke with obscenity, I expressed my disgust... and about your thread, I spoke against it, so even if you didn't know I removed it you knew I was against it. By the way, I did not start this topic. I have a great admiration for Sri Chinmoy's philosophy and practically everything that he has done. I have been quoting from him for a year, and I will defend him against any false charges as I deem fit even if every member of the forum has the same suspicions. It has nothing to do with my moderator status. So your opinion about my defence and moderatorship was heard but does not really matter. You may say I am being ridiculous but frankly I don't really care much about things that you say. If you were bored by this thread you should not have joined to it. But you jumped in with false accusations and your "authoritative" opinion. Who asked you to read my "boring" comments if you were bored? Domino, you slip on a technicality... follower and disciple are the same thing in this case and are in most cases used with the same meaning as far as gurus are concerned. If somebody is counting numbers then it must be the number of disciples. "Follower" as a general word could mean someone who reads books and folows one way or another, but these people cannot be identified and counted, and the word "following" is not something with a deterministic meaning which makes it even harder to count the "followers". Therefore the 4000 number could not be about them... and how can you find out the number of disciples anyway? The only thing you have at your disposal is the internet. You can't assume that every disciple has announced about himself/herself on the internet. All disciples of Sri Chinmoy in all countries have the same status as disciples. If you have any familiarity with Sri Chinmoy (which you insist that you do) then you must know it very well. And if you claim to know it so well then I assume that you really consider follower=disciple. And I don't understand what PM exchanges you are talking about. Looks like you are talking about something else. I have defended a new person some time back who was attacked for making a comment about drug use habits of Armenians. I have exchanged PMs with you regarding your attack to him, I have also defended the same person publicly against you and others. I don't see where is my wrongdoing, and what profit I have made. On the contrary, I have risked to loose popularity with old members. On the other hand, the moderators know that I have also defended other new or relatively new members (who were not gurus in any way) against suspensions and other things. I had no interest at all. I have even defended a member I despise. I won't give any names... There never was a case in HyeForum that you were so zealously trying to attack and defame a person. Mind you, you were provoked to do so... as for your expertise in telling lies from truth, I don't think you have such expertise. The reason you have been successful in genocide related questions is that you have spent so much time familiarizing with documents, history, accounts and testimonies which all came from real life, NOT the internet. You were also battling on the internet, true. But I don't think you had the extraordinary skill to tell truths from lies, but you happened to know the facts, therefore you could tell a skillful lie. If you have the fact, you can't be tricked by a lie no matter how truthful it sounds. This happens to be my case. I don't need to read all the lies and analyze them to understand things that I have seen with my own eyes. The things that I have not seen I use solid logic based on my many experiences. But to believe in the claims, if one has facts it will take a big stretch of a imagination to believe (such as this invisible power of influence, and all other disgusting claims you foundon the internet). By the way, you are obviously mistaking the "power of love" with "love of power". I suggest you to familiarize with current disciple views, you will hopefully understand it one day that disciples who seem to be "controlled" are not controlled, they are acting out of love and loyalty to their guru who has given them so much in the spiritual realm, as well as in some cases on practical levels of life. If this is what you call power, the it is the power of love. Edited July 19, 2004 by Sasun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 (edited) You said: "And Mr. Boghos, do you think I don't understand why you all of a sudden started to attack me? You had started a stupid thread trying to belittle another forum member, which I removed. Of course, Mr. Boghos, a longtime member, cannot stand that. Therefore I am a "fanatic" and should not be a moderator... have some decency. " I disproved your contention. I didn´t know it was you since you don´t seem to be in the habit of notifying people that you removed their thread. You accused without any reasonable argument. Vigil saw the humor but you, the superior soul, saw a desire to belittle. that is not moderating, that is acting in a hasty and uncalled for manner. Read your own words and see what an attempt to belittle is. So before asking me to prove the obvious, that Chinmoy is a charlatan, look at yourself and see which standards you adhere to. This is a matter of faith, depsite the overwhelming evidence that Chinmoy is a charlatan you believe in the guy. That is your problem, or should I say, one of your problems. Edited July 19, 2004 by Boghos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 I'm sure a lot of people were shocked to find out John F. Kennedy was a womaniser and in fact Islam is a religion of peace and Mo took two dozen wives because he felt sorry for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Isn't any "spiritual leader" a charlatan by definition? I don't see what the big fuss is about. I think we should all get together at Movses's house for some xhorovats and gini and I'll show you all what spiritual fulfilment is all about. ... and I'm sure there'll even be some flowers and leaves for Azat to enjoy. Note: I didn't want to say "xhod" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 I think we should all get together at Movses's house for some xhorovats and gini and I'll show you all what spiritual fulfilment is all about. Wait a minute ... but that would make me a spiritual leader of sorts. So on second thought, just enjoy the xhorovats and discover the higher level of existence on your own. And why am I quoting myself.... must be this damn heat. I can't wait to get back to that nice mid west with the cows and cheese and beer and fat women ... oh wait, forgot about the fat women. I like LA just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Isn't any "spiritual leader" a charlatan by definition? I don't see what the big fuss is about. Hey, what is this ? Have you no decency ? Morality ? Little man ! Proof, I want proooooooooooooooooooof or I decry that you´ll burn in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Boghos is an ignorant slanderer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 ...and Sip is clueless about spirituality in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 I'm sure a lot of people were shocked to find out John F. Kennedy was a womaniser and in fact Islam is a religion of peace and Mo took two dozen wives because he felt sorry for them. Well, but not many people are shocked to hear claims like "Einstein didn't discover his theories, his wife (or maybe his cat) did", "Shakespear didn't write his works, he paid someone else to write", and numerous such gossips... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 (edited) Boghos is a liar too. He says that Vigil understood his "joke" and he maybe thinking that he is a good joker. Here is what Vigil said about that stupid thread: "However, making a entire thread just ridicule a member is also "sabotage" is it not because they are in irresponsibly creating content that may disturb the other posters, right? Right, but since I could care less what a guy named "Boghos" does in his spare time I do not really care if he is banned or not." It follows that Vigil was actually not happy about that thread, he felt riduculed, rather than being amused. Edited July 20, 2004 by Sasun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 I disproved your contention. Wishful thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 ...and Sip is clueless about spirituality in general. I tend to think of it more as "not confusing what basically is emotionality with extra meanings attached to it through our overactive imaginations" ... some choose to call it "spirituality" by relying on this abstract concept of the "spirit" to describe that which we don't really understand in a human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 ... and I'm sure there'll even be some flowers and leaves for Azat to enjoy. Note: I didn't want to say "xhod" Azat are you going to let him get away with this? speaking of xorovats, as my grill is ready and as rule Mondays are always xorovats day in our house, the "spirits" of xorovats are calling me which leaves you with outmost sutisfaction, speritualy speaking, oh and nice cold beer with it also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 My brother and I just got done connecting with the spirits outside ... it was about 100F but well worth it There's nothing like fresh "davari xhorovats" right off the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 I tend to think of it more as "not confusing what basically is emotionality with extra meanings attached to it through our overactive imaginations" ... some choose to call it "spirituality" by relying on this abstract concept of the "spirit" to describe that which we don't really understand in a human. Actually, Sip, there is some truth in what you say as far as I can discern from your short description. In practice of yoga a great deal of attention is paid to clear ones mind of any emotions and thoughts while you meditate (well, the ignorant anti-cultists call this an abuse of the individual on part of his/her instructor). That allows one to move towards self-realization, which is also called God-realization or Enlightenment or being saved, depending on religion. Every true spiritual leader will say that sensual emotions and attachments to desirable things accompanied with emotions have nothing to do with spirituality. But there is also devotion and love for God. This is based on faith and spiritual realizations, depending on the person. There is no desire and emotional attachment. I don't know if this is any clear... true spirituality is based on real things rather than imagined emotions. This is the understanding I have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Sasun, I havn't read what you wrote as an answer to me, and I don't care... Sip, yes! You must free your mind of anything before meditating, but should not free your mind from only one thing... Here according to Chinmoy what you must keep. "There you can make a shrine where you can keep a picture of your spiritual Master, or the Christ, or some other beloved spiritual figure whom you regard as your Master." http://www.srichinmoy.org/html/spiritualit...to_meditate.htm Yeh Sip, the followers of Chinmoy medidate on his picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Ok, ladies & gents... the fun's over. This thread is closed. If any of you have any objections, please PM me and we'll consider re-opening it if we see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 My brother and I just got done connecting with the spirits outside ... it was about 100F but well worth it There's nothing like fresh "davari xhorovats" right off the fire. Ed, knowing the stuff that Sip eats I am sure this xhorovats that he just made was topped with a bucket of ketchup...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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