Sri Chinmoy criticism

[DominO123]

"Ghose, who has attracted several celebrities, including Olympic sprinter Carl Lewis and guitarists John McLoughlin and Carlos Santana, owns a house in Florida and four in Queens, including the two-story home on 149th Street where he lives." New-York Post May 23, 2004

 

He finally have 5 houses, from those at least one is an entire huge building.

 

Even celebrities will have touble having so much houses.

 

 

Here another photograph admit how the pictures were manipulated.

 

By Ernie Frantz, one of the official photographers.

 

"I JOINED SRI CHINMOY'S ORGANIZATION IN 1972, AND LEFT IN 1989. I

JOINED AT THE AGE OF 20, A RESPONSIBLE ADULT. I WAS AT COLLEGE IN

LONDON, AND AT THE TAIL END OF SOME SERIOUS RECREATIONAL DRUG USE. IT

WAS ALSO A TIME WHEN EASTERN RELIGIONS WERE THE RAGE, AND IT

INTERSECTED CONVENIENTLY WITH MY DESIRE TO MOVE ON TO SOMETHING NEW

AND UPLIFTING. LIKE MANY OF MY PEERS IN THE GROUP, WHAT STARTED OUT AS

A REFRESHING EXPERIENCE SOON TURNED INTO A CATCH 22 LIFE, WHERE

SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF CREATED A MENTAL VORTEX THAT WAS HARD IF NOT

IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO ESCAPE. ON THE ONE HAND, WE HAD TAKEN A STEP AWAY

FROM OUR PREVIOUS LIVES, THAT REQUIRED US TO ACCEPT THAT THE DOUBTING

INTELLECT WAS THE PROBLEM, FOR WHICH THE ANSWER WAS TOTAL ACCEPTANCE

OF THE ILLOGICAL.... SO THAT IN SPITE OF A NAGGING DISBELIEF IN WHAT

WE WERE LED TO BELIEVE. WE COULD ONLY ASSUME THAT THERE WAS SOME

INTERNAL LOGIC THAT WE COULD AND WOULD SOON GRASP. I SPENT FROM 1972

TO 1983 IN ENGLAND, AND I THEN CAME TO THE UNITED STATES AT THAT TIME

I STARTED TO BE ASKED BY CHINMOY TO DO VARIOUS ART PROJECTS MOSTLY

DECORATIVE..IN SERVICE OF HIS VARIOUS ENTERTAINMENTS. BUT WHEN IN

ABOUT 1985 HE STARTED LIFTING WEIGHTS, HE DECIDED TO USE PHOTOGRAPHS

OF HIMSELF DOING `SUPERHUMAN FEATS' OF STRENGTH, AS YET ANOTHER VECTOR

OF HIS DRIVE FOR PUBLICITY, FOR WHICH HE HAD AN INSATIABLE APPETITE.

IF HE DID NOT SUCCEED IN LIFTING THESE RECORD AMOUNTS OF WEIGHT, IT

WAS NOT FOR LACK OF TRYING, INDEED HE DID LEGITIMATELY SUPPORT FAIRLY

IMPRESSIVE AMOUNTS OF WEIGHT FOR A MAN OF HIS AGE; HE WOULD STRUGGLE,

FOR EXAMPLE, WITH TWO HANDS TO GET A 100 POUND DUMBELL ABOVE HIS HEAD,

AND THEN HOLD IT BRIEFLY ALOFT WITH ONE HAND. SOON I WAS ASKED TO COME

TO HIS HOUSE, WHERE HE WOULD INDICATE FOR ME TO DRAW CLOSER TO

HIM...`Good Boy' HE WOULD SAY( I AM PARAPHRASING HERE) ,` IS IT NOT

POSSIBLE TO MAKE THIS THIS LITTLE PIECE OF THE MACHINE LOWER? YOU CAN

SEE IT IS ALREADY LIFTED....BUT FOR THE PRESS?.............SO THAT

THEY CAN SEE CLEARLY???'.... WELL, HE STARTED ASKING ME TO DOCTOR THE

PHOTOGRAPHS OF HIS LIFTS MORE AND MORE TO MAKE IT APPEAR AS THOUGH HE

HAD LIFTED HIGHER AND MORE IMPRESSIVELY THAN HE ACTUALLY HAD. BECAUSE

OF THE FACT THAT THE WEIGHTS HE WAS TRYING TO LIFT WITH ONE ARM BEGAN

TO GET PROGRESSIVELY MORE UNREALISTIC.. AND INCREASING EXPONENTIALLY,

I WOULD HAVE TO AIRBRUSH IN.. OR OUT, BITS OF APPERATUS AND ADD

SHADOWS WHERE THERE WERE NONE, GIVING THE ILLUSION OF A LIFT

EVENTUALLY I WOULD WORK MORE AND MORE CLOSELY WITH THE

PHOTOGRAPHERS....UNTIL I BECAME, MYSELF, ONE OF SEVERAL PHOTOGRAPHERS.

AS THE WEIGHTS INCREASED I NO LONGER HAD TO AIRBRUSH. AS PHOTOGRAPHERS

WE LEARNED HOW TO MAKE IT LOOK AS IF WEIGHTS HAD BEEN LIFTED. WE WOULD

SHOOT FROM A LOW VANTAGE POINT SO AS TO MAKE IT LOOK AS THOUGH THE

WEIGHTS HAD BEEN SLIGHTLY ROLLED UP THE BEND ON WHICH THE WEIGHT WAS

CRADLED. NOW THE STORY OF THE 7,OOO POUND LIFT THAT NEVER WAS......

AND THE TURNING POINT FOR ME.. NO MORE DENIAL. THAT DAY, ( I CANT

REMEMBER IF IT WAS DAY OR NIGHT?), ABOUT 15 PEOPLE WERE SUMMONED TO

HIS HOUSE..

 

INCLUDING A HANDFUL OF PHOTOGRAPHERS. ON THIS OCCASION I WAS JUST A

WITNESS AND NOT A PHOTOGRAPHER. THE APPARATUS, A METAL FRAME WITH TWO

U-BENDS CRADLING THE WEIGHT AT SHOULDER HEIGHT STOOD THERE. THE

BUILDERS OF THIS WELDED MONSTER WERE SCURRYING AROUND CHECKING THE

FLOOR FROM THE BASEMENT WHICH HAD BEEN REINFORCED WITH STANDING METAL

BEAMS.

 

BARE IN MIND NOW THAT SRI CHINMOY HAD SAID ON AT LEAST ONE OCCASION,

THAT HIS FEATS OF STRENGTH ON EARTH WERE AS NOTHING COMPARED WITH WHAT

HE WAS DOING IN THE INNER WORLD....

 

SO SRI CHINMOY STOOD UP, WALKED AROUND THE WEIGHT, ROLLED HIS EYES IN

MEDITATIVE REVERIE....THEN TOOK HIS GRIP ON THE BAR. HE CRIED OUT, HIS

FACE TURNED RED.. ALL THE DRAMA OF GENUINE EFFORT, EXCEPT THAT THE

WEIGHT DID NOT BUDGE, DID NOT EVEN TREMBLE, IT WAS AS IMMOVEABLE AS

EXCALIBER. SHORTLY WE WERE WATCHING THE VIDEO TAPE. SRI CHINMOY WAS

THRILLED.....AS HE PLAYED IT AT THE APPROPRIATE MOMENT, HE GLEEFULLY

SHOUTED "THERE! DID YOU SEE?!'. CAME A DEAFENING SILENCE, AND THE TAPE

WAS REPLAYED. `LOOK! DID YOU SEE?!' THIS TIME RANx AND A FEW OTHER OF

THE GIRLS, POSSIBLY A FEW BOYS TOO, ENTHUSIASTICALLY AGREED, YES,

THERE HAD BEEN A LIFT. THEN THE VIDEO TAPE WAS PLAYED AGAIN AND A FEW

MORE PEOPLE WERE WON OVER. THEN AGAIN AND AGAIN. EVENTUALLY SRI

CHINMOY WAS REDUCED TO ACTUALLY EYEBALLING INDIVIDUALS, ALL BUT

PLEADING FOR THEM TO COME ACROSS. IT WAS ACTUALLY QUITE

SWEET/PATHETIC. TALK ABOUT RETAIL POLITICS! THIS ACCOUNT CAN BE

SUBSTANTIATED BY ANY ONE OF THESE PEOPLE...YOGALOY, A YOUNG MAN FROM

CALIFORNIA WHO LEFT SOON AFTER ME WAS THERE.

 

ANYWAY, IT WAS NOT LONG AFTER THAT I TOLD HIM I WAS LEAVING, HE ASKED

ME TO GIVE HIM A MONTH IN ORDER TO TRY TO PERSUADE ME TO STAY....TO

LEAVE WAS THE SAME AS SUICIDE HE TOLD ME. THERE FOLLOWED A MONTH OF

FLATTERING ATTENTION.. TENNIS WITH THE MASTER EVERY MORNING,

INVITATIONS TO ALL THE HOTTEST EVENTS. THE MASTERS CHARM AND SWEETEST

PERSUASION. TO NO AVAIL THOUGH, I WANTED TO ROMANCE THE BEAST - REAL LIFE.

[Sasun]

McLaughlin did say something like that, the author of the work whom reported it said it was said to him by McLaughlin himself...

Aha, you see, you are saying something like that, but not really so. I quoted and explained in a previous post. The anti-cultists are manipulating McLoughlin's words, the question is if he has make a charge, and I showed that he has not. "Something like that" is really something different.

 

you accused that man to be a liar and now you expect that I take you seriously when you try to defend Chinmoy?

 

I never accused, read carefully, and calm down once again. You are not even reading what I said. You claimed that McLoughlin could not lie, and I said that he could, not he does.

 

And why am I attacking you?

 

You accused me of manipulating.

 

On the other hand, you just did what you accuses me of doing, you were the one starting to accuse me and characterise me and even generalising me and my intire participation in hyeforum. Where have I done anything similar with you, I just aim calling you brainwashed, because here obviously you are brainwashed.

 

Domino, you are a very stubborn person, that is my impression. You will never stop, you have no facts for crime. Do you have facts for a crime Domino? Are you authorized to determine who is a criminal and who is not? Well then it is highly arrogant of you to take this position. I am criticizing you, yes. But you call me brainwashed? I have answered your claims with logic and asked many times to provide facts, you have not provided any. You have a hatred to religions and gurus Domino, it is evident. And I said that.

 

And more, do you actually believe that the guru will admit to one of his followers that he can't lift the weight and ask him to manipulate a picture? He'll just say:"like you know/see, I have lifted it, but it does not appear so, could you do something about it" etc... this is a psychological manipulation, the kind that psychopaths uses to manipulate their victims.

 

Domino, you are attributing things that you can't understand to bogus ideas like "psychological manipulation". The point is, you tried to bring an evidence by a photographer, but the photographer does not support the hoax claim. Then you say, oh, he was manipulated psychologically. It can be said about anyone, this proves nothing.

 

As for the 10,000, before claiming such a thing, go read the posts... go ahead go read them Sasun, you'll see that what you are saying here doesn't stend.

 

Domino, how many times should I go and check to see something? There are accusations, and talk and repeatitions about accusations. What is there more to see? The post count is 10000? So what?

[DominO123]

You have not answered my claims with logic, you have answered my claims like a brainwashed turk will do by supposing that all this is a conspiration.

 

And yes! You have insinuated that the gay have lied, you have insinuated that it was some sort of conspiration by anti-cultists.

 

"Domino, you are attributing things that you can't understand to bogus ideas like "psychological manipulation". The point is, you tried to bring an evidence by a photographer, but the photographer does not support the hoax claim. Then you say, oh, he was manipulated psychologically. It can be said about anyone, this proves nothing."

 

Well then, I have posted the account of the photographer that signed the autentification of the 3000 pound weight lift... he clearly stated it was manipulation.

 

"Domino, how many times should I go and check to see something? "

 

Only one time, because obviously or you did not, or you are too brainwashed to see what there is to see.

[DominO123]

Evidences one.

 

"Written by the former head of the San Francisco Center

 

To verify story, email: ex_disciple@yahoo.com or click here

 

I joined the center in 1971 and became the leader of the San Francisco Center, along with my former husband. I had never known such bliss. I was part of a spiritual family that offered unconditional love from a guru. The first years were heaven as I moved quickly into the guru's coveted inner circle.

 

In 1973, Ghose (as I now call the guru) embarked on a 50-state lecture tour. As the organizer, I was invited to secretly travel alone with Ghose to Alaska. I accompanied him with disbelief that I would be allowed to carry his things during the talk and unpack his suitcase in the hotel.

 

After the talk at a university, Ghose and I took a cab back to the hotel, where we had separate rooms. He invited me into his room. I sat, with my hands folded, on the floor in front of him as he sat on a soft chair. He started by saying that I was a very advanced soul and that he was very pleased with me. He said he wanted to test the purity of my vital. "Do you have impure thoughts and feelings?" he asked. I told him I sometimes felt pressure in my groin and that I felt guilty about it because I didn't know where it came from. He said that if I were truly surrendered to him, he could purify me.

 

He then told me to touch him. I timidly touched his foot with the tip of one of my fingers, afraid that my impurity would cause him great pain (as he always claimed human impurity did). "No, no," he said. "Come close and embrace me." I stood up, walked to his side and gently put my arms around him, then he said, "Very good. Now sit down....Good girl, take your clothes off." Immediately I started doubting my guru's purity. I pushed the doubt away. Maybe I hadn't heard him correctly. He repeated his command and when he saw my hesitation, he said, "You don't have to do this. If you don't want to, I will never ask you again. This is my gift to you, to purify you. It is your soul's request to me that I do this for you. But if you do not want to, I will still love you unconditionally."

 

"So this was a one-time event that would purify me," I thought. Isn't purity of my vital a major step on the way to God-realization? If I don't take this opportunity, I may never get another chance in this incarnation. It seemed foolish and unspiritual not to do it. I took my sari off, as he sat and watched through his partially open eyes. When I was naked, he told me to lie down on the bed. He lay on top of me, still wearing his satin kurta and dhoti. I could feel only the weight of his body on mine, as he wiggled back and forth mechanically. I was relieved to think that maybe this was the treatment, nothing more. But slowly I started to feel his small erection through his dhoti.

 

Then he took his dhoti off and inserted his penis into me. He moved up and down mechanically, as if he didn't know exactly what he was doing. From time to time he said, "This is my union with you. This is my oneness with you. This is my unconditional love for you." There was absolutely no passion, no kissing, no fondling, no touching just plain sex. Finally he came inside me. Then he got up and told me to put my sari back on. While I got dressed, he told me I must never tell anyone about this. Not Alo, not L., not R., and not my husband. No one must ever know. He gave me a few hundred dollars, I promised never to tell, and I left the room. Afterwards, the next day he asked me how I felt. I said that I was confused because I still felt pressure in my groin. "Oh, it is like a hat," he said. "When you've been wearing a hat for a long time, you can still feel the hat on your head even after you take it off."

 

I flew back to San Francisco with a powerful secret, one that I believed was momentous in my spiritual life. I was closer than ever to my spiritual father, and I had been purified.

 

The next time I went to New York, Ghose told me to come to his house for more lessons in purity. I was surprised that my first lesson in Alaska was not to be my only one, as I originally thought. As it turned out, these "blessings" happened several times a year for the next 15 years--every time I came to New York, every time he came to San Francisco, and every time we traveled in small or large groups. The sex was always accompanied by money, amounting to about $10,000 a year. The sex we had in Jamaica was always on the floor, either in his basement or in one of his upstairs studies, never in his bed. He told me always to use a diaphragm, except when we were traveling to another country where it might be discovered in my luggage when going through customs.

 

After a few years, I grew tired of the emotionless, mechanical sex, especially because I didn't feel that it was purifying my vital. Once when I showed resistance to coming to his home in Queens, he threatened never to ask me again and to exclude me from his inner circle. I was afraid of falling from my first-class status so I begged for his forgiveness and ran to his house immediately. He said, "Always show eagerness to please me in this way." I never again complained to him about having sex with him. I went to him each time, often walking the dangerous streets of Jamaica, Queens in the wee hours of the morning when his security guards were told not to patrol the neighborhood.

 

For a long time I believed that I was the only one having sex with the guru. It wasn't until years later that I began to suspect that L. and R. were having sex with Ghose because of the familiar, intimate way they behaved around him. I pushed my suspicions out of my mind.

 

For a brief time I was flying to Los Angeles once a week in an effort to start a center there. An ex-disciple started coming to the meetings, and showed interest in rejoining the center. Ghose was very encouraging of her re-entry until the woman mentioned to me that a former well-known disciple had told her that Ghose had had sex with her. When I told Ghose what she had said, he shouted, "Lies!" He told me to call her immediately and tell her that his path was not meant for her, she should never attend another meeting, and that I should never mention her "lie" to anyone.

 

When Ghose got into weight lifting, along with that came an obsession with the size of his penis (which was smaller than the smallest, to put it in his way of speaking). He assigned me the task of find a way to increase its size, a magic cream or pill, anything to make it bigger. I ultimately found the bottom line was passion. When I suggested that our sex have passion, he shut his eyes and said, "No, good girl. Keep searching." At about this time, Ghose started using another phrase while he had sex with me. In addition to "This is my oneness with you," he would sometimes say, "I am a brute" as he was pumping me. He told me he learned that from an article he'd read in a magazine down on Jamaica Avenue.

 

I became pregnant twice. The first time he told me to go for an abortion the next day. The cost was $80, which he said he would pay. Alone, I took a cab to the clinic, where I underwent the abortion and then took a cab home. It made me very sick but I couldn't show anyone, especially my husband, that I was ill for fear that my condition would be discovered. That night I called Ghose in Brazil, where he was on vacation with R. and L. When I told him what had happened, he said, "The doctors lied to you! You were never pregnant, they just wanted your money." Then he said he had to get off the phone so R. and L. wouldn't hear him talking to someone on the phone, and that I shouldn't call him back. As I hung up the phone, I couldn't believe that the doctors had lied. I doubted Ghose's irrational response, and felt abandoned by him, the only person in whom I could confide.

 

I wanted to stop these relations with him but was afraid to assert myself for fear of angering him. So I went on pretending to be devoted and eager. In 1982, my husband left the center with another woman disciple. No wonder, given that I had become a stranger to him due to my secret affair with our mutual spiritual father. A few years later, I again got pregnant after an international trip with the guru. He again told me to have an abortion. The night before the procedure, I miscarried and right before my eyes was a tiny fetus about the size of the first joint of my thumb. I had been pregnant, no matter what Ghose might say this time. I put the baby on a paper plate and took it ER of SF General Hospital. By the time the doctors saw me, I had completely aborted and they sent me home in the cab, my pants completely soaked with blood. Except for Ghose and the doctors, no one ever knew what had transpired that night, until years later.

 

Another time, when Ghose was returning alone from his trip to India, he had a layover in LA. He called me from India and instructed me to meet him at LAX and to reserve a hotel room for us to go to. I used my credit card to make the room reservation, and got a flight that was scheduled to arrive 45 minutes before his flight arrived. All went as planned, until my plane was delayed for an hour before arriving at the gate. Once off the plane, I rushed to the gate where Ghose's plane had already disembarked. He was nowhere to be seen. Knowing his habits, I figured he would be in either a nearby gift shop or restaurant. He wasn't in the gift shop, so I went to the restaurant. There I saw my balding guru with his back to me at a counter. As I got closer, I saw that he was ravenously ripping chicken off the bone like an animal. I timidly said, "Guru?" He spun around and said, "They lied to me. They said this wasn't meat!" I was shocked, because he was clearly lying and was filled with guilt. He threw down the meat, jumped up, and said, "Let us go."

 

I explained that there wasn't time to go to the hotel before his flight. "It's your fault. Why did you get here late? Why didn't you come on an earlier flight?" he demanded. "The flight was delayed an hour, out of my control. Now we've lost the hotel reservation because it's too late." I said. "If you had used your credit card, we would still have the room," he accused. "I did use my credit card, but we don't have time now." I said, defending myself against this illogical progression, while thinking that his accusations really seemed to be a defense to my having caught him with a mouthful of meat. "This all went wrong because your mind was in the gutter," he said. I certainly didn't feel like my mind was in the gutter, but what could I say given that he alone had access to the world of consciousness.

 

He handed me several one hundred dollar bills and rushed onto the plane as soon as it started boarding, eager to get away from me. As I returned to San Francisco, I experienced a level of anger and hurt I had never felt. I knew my days in the center were numbered.

 

Whenever I indicated I was having doubt or that I wanted to leave the center, Ghose would tell me to come to NY where he would sweeten me up, have sex, and make me feel important. It usually worked and I would return to SF to hang on for another three or four months. After several of my open attempts at leaving, Ghose saw that the handwriting was on the wall and he started turning people against me.

 

I became more determined to get out of the center, and for the last two years of my discipleship, I planned my exit. I avoided attending meditations, I started friendships outside the center and I hired a therapist to get me through the transition. Just before the 1988 April celebration, when we were all expected to go to New York, I secretly rented an apartment and, at night, moved all my belongings into it. About five days before my planned exit from the center, a snoopy disciple discovered my empty room and reported it to Ghose. I got a phone call from him that went like this: "Oi, good girl, you are breaking my heart. You are breaking my heart." I cut in, "Stop right there. I don't believe in you. I don't believe in what you're doing. And I don't want any part of what you're doing."

 

"If you must leave then I will not stop you," he said. "And I will never say anything bad about you. I will never say anything bad about you. I will tell the disciples to always help you with anything you need. You have my phone number, you can call me. Anything you need I will give you, money, help, anything. I will never say anything bad about you. And I'm sure you will never say anything bad about me" "Look," I said. "I promise never to say anything bad about you if you promise never to contact me in person, in writing, by phone, or through a disciple. You will leave me alone." Very good," Ghose said, "I will leave you alone, I will never say anything bad about you, and you will never say anything bad about me." "Fine," I said. "I want to get off the phone now. Good bye." And I hung up the phone on him. It felt good to have the final word. A few days later, he broke his promise by having a disciple slip an envelope under my door with a handwritten note from him and $700 in cash. Then a few months later, a disciple called with a message. A few years later, a disciple called to say that Ghose was coming to San Francisco and he wanted to have a private meeting with me in his hotel room. I declined. And from time to time a disciple will still call, claiming that Ghose doesn't know anything about the call. In such cases, the conversations are polite but brief. Since that handwritten note slipped under my door, I have had no direct contact or financial dealings with Ghose.

 

It's been 13 years since I left the center. My work with a therapist revealed that my discipleship with Ghose was a form of incest. As in a typical incestuous relationship, sex was accompanied by money and secrecy. The greatest power he held over me was the secrecy, which I demolished four years after leaving the center by telling my ex-husband about the sex I'd had with the Guru during most of our marriage.

 

I now have a rewarding life and career. Most importantly, I have never regretted leaving Ghose; I often regret having stayed with him so long. "

[DominO123]

Evidences 2.

 

"Written by Rose, formerly Rupavati

 

Click here or email goodthings_71@yahoo.com for verification

 

 

Dear friends,

 

About 3 years ago S. asked me how much I loved CKG. I said "a lot". She then asked me if I loved him unconditionally, so much that, if he asked me to do something that went against all my principles, would I do it. I asked her "like what?" She said "if he asks you to have sex with someone you do not like would you do it." I said that he wouldnt ask that, we are celibate but anyway, I would say no. She said that I had to work on my unconditional love for CKG that is the most important thing in the spiritual life. From that moment on, something began, a preparation for events that would change the way I thought and saw the Center. Attention galore was given to me, invites to the house, people were friendlier than ever and the girls at the Center kept telling me how CKG kept saying that I was so special.

 

My love and devotion grew and I felt I was making so much progress. I started to see him as a father and as a god and I kept getting closer and closer to the inner circle. I remember, a year ago, he told my roommate and me that he wanted us to be like P. and G. I thought that this was my chance to be like them. P., G. and S. were my role models and I wanted to be like them, unconditionally committed and surrendered to CKG. I was being called to the house for functions all the time and also received special calls at work and at home.

 

 

On the Christmas trip 2000-01 it all started. S. called me to CKGs room very late one night. S. opened the door and said, "I do not know how to tell you this but CKG wants us to be together." My first thought was that maybe from now on I had to travel with her and Alo or that I was supposed to move in with her. But she said, "No, he wants us to be together sexually." I was in a plain shock, I started crying and said, "I cant do that, we are supposed to be celibate." She continued to explain that this was a very special opportunity to make progress and that this was not about me. She had a vital problem and this was the way CKG was going to take care of it. She had chosen me to be with her because she has known me since I was a little girl and she felt comfortable with me.

 

I was still crying and in shock, then CKG called from the other room asking if I was ready. She said, "No guru, she has doubts she doesnt want to do it." He then said, in a very deceptive voice, "Then tell her to go. If she does not love me enough to please me in my own way, then tell her to leave." I felt my heart break I loved CKG and believed in him. I did not want to disappoint him. I accepted, then he came into the room and asked me to take of my clothes, I stood there in my underwear, he said "You still have clothes on, take it all off." There I stood, naked, in front of the man I thought was an Avatar. Then, S. came up to me and touched me, he was watching and telling her what to do. I cried and felt so disgusting, I didnt want to be touched, and even less, by a woman. But I thought that, after this, I would never have to do this again and I had pleased him in his own way. Then, after what seemed like hours, he said that it was enough for today, but that we had to be together again, in front of him and alone in our room. Then, he came over to me and touched me and said, "look in my eyes, do you see any impurity there? This is not sex, this is a golden opportunity to make the utmost progress." He embraced me and said that he was proud of me. When we got out of the room I asked S. if there were other people doing this. She swore that we were the only ones and that I could not talk to anyone about this.

 

For the rest of the trip I was sick, nervous and had nightmares. I was nervous about being called again but it did happen again, twice more in front of him and also another time, in her room. His attentions towards me became more frequent. He gave me money and even invited me to go out shopping alone with him. One time, he invited me for a ride in the car with Alo and S. and afterward, he told me to go to his room. He again told me how proud he was of me and that I was making so much progress. Then he told me to touch him wherever I wanted, so I touched his feet. Then he said "where else?" So I touched his head. He then grabbed my hands and put them on his privates and held them there, over his clothes. In a very weird way, he said, "Tell me, how bad is your guru? Is your guru impure? Do you feel my love for you? My love for you is unconditional, I am your all." I freaked out a bit more than I already was.

I was terrified that he would want to have sex with me. He then told me I had to be with S. again before the trip was over, one more time, at least, and that he wanted to watch.

Toward the end of the trip I could not take it anymore. I was tired, scared, disgusted and physically sick. I wanted out but how? I had no money and no ticket to get back home. The last time he wanted us to be together, I told S. that I could not do it. She told CKG and he told me not to pay attention to my mind, that we would not be together again until she came to NY. So we went to his room and he watched and told us what to do. Afterwards, while were still naked, he asked us to massage his feet.

He then touched us and told us how proud he was of us and that we had made so much progress etc

Once in NY I knew I had to go, but that meant that I would have no job, no place to live and no money. I met someone and started dating and he helped me get out. When CKG found out he called me at all times of the night and at work begging me not to go. He had people follow me wherever I went. He made my life miserable.

Dear friends, this story is true. There are many people involved in this sexual circle. Anne and I are not the only ones. Do not let CKG take advantage of you or those who you love. A person who does things like this is not fit to be called an Avatar or a Son of God or a realized master or anything of the sorts. Please open your eyes, see for your self what he is doing to all the disciples. Not allowing them to talk with their parents or taking all their money and possessions. Telling you what to wear, what to eat, where to go and where not to go. I guarantee you God will not be mad at you and your soul will not punish you. Pray to God to guide you and show you the reality of things. I hope you open your eyes and realize what is the truth of it all. You deserve better than this. It should be your choice whether you are a vegetarian or not, or if you wear Indian clothing or not, or if you contact your family or not, not his command. You should not be forced to do anything you do not want to do. You are a free soul, you have the right to love and fall in love, to have children, to have a family, to go to the movies and dance, thats why you are here, to be free and love God and one another but not under the command of anyone.

I pray that you realize the truth about the world you are living in, wake up and walk out.

In Gods love, Rose (Rupavati)"

[DominO123]

Evidences 3.

 

"ue to threats by Chinmoy and the disciples, this person has changed their testimonial to be anonymous. The truth will still remain here.

 

 

A few weeks after leaving the Center for my own personal reasons, it dawned on me that my former Guru, CKG, was not the Avatar or spiritual person I had believed him to be. I was talking with an old friend about a long phone call I had with CKG shortly before leaving and all of the sudden, the pieces started to fall into place.

 

In that phone conversation, CKG told me himself about the circumstances surrounding his arrival in the West. This story was very different from what I had previously heard from him, about an inner command from the Supreme to spread His message to aspiring humanity in the West. CKG simply told me, that he had been a disciple like me, (who had lost faith) and was unhappy with life at the Ashram. Once he arrived here, he had a low paying job at the Permanent Mission of India to the United Nations and he wasn't able to meet his obligations and feed himself. He had maintained his interest in Meditation, poetry and music from the Ashram. Moreover, he recalled that the Mother of the Ashram had so many rich disciples. So, with the help of Alo Devi, he started the Center.

 

My friend, who had worked at CKG's house for many years, had other pieces of the puzzle. She knew that CKG had been a clerk in the Ashram, responsible for bank deposits, thus, had detailed knowledge of the financial workings of the Ashram. She also recounted stories of how, early on, CKG used to practice his meditation poses in front of a mirror, not something an Avatar should need to do.

 

I had always been amazed by CKGs ability to see beings" or "souls", like Krishna from other worlds. However, I learned of something that recently happened at CKG's house, which tells a different story. CKG's has a quote in one of his books about how he saw beings on the moon during the televised version of the moon landing. At the time, he said he could clearly see the beings on the moon, while the astronauts where there. Later, during the past year, CKG saw a show on FOX TV about the moon landing video being a fake. CKG immediately agreed that the tape was indeed a fake and that the entire moon landing was a hoax. When asked about the book, CKG said his entire story was a miss-print. He stated that he, never said anything about seeing any moon beings.

 

There are also other concerns. There are stories, during the past few years, of some women who suffered physically. One woman, who I knew personally, tried to walk with a broken hip for almost a year because CKG said her pain would go away and the other actually died of a rare liver disease without going to the hospital. Both had suffered following the advice of CKG. Then there is the constant media circus going on in the Center. I ask myself whether a truly God realized soul would court the media and solicit awards this way.

 

Finally, there is my own knowledge of the sexual affairs, which CKG has continued to have since the start of the Center. I know that CKG has sex with many partners, some even married, and still tells the rest of his disciples to remain celibate. Now I also know that, if they become pregnant, his female sexual partners are forced to have abortions and that married disciples are also forced to have abortions.

 

My personal experience with CKG came after I had been celibate for 10 years. I had been getting in shape by bicycling and suddenly he started giving me special attention. Out of the blue, he invited me to join a group trip out of New York for a peace concert near San Francisco. When I said I didn't have money, he even offered to pay for me. After the concert, G., a leader in the California area, approached me and said that CKG wanted me to go to his room, she gave me a piece of paper with the room number.

 

I nervously went to the room. I was thinking that I had been invited to a special function. I never dreamed that it was for sex. After a short interview about my previous sexual experiences, CKG said that I should surrender my vital to him. I folded my hands, looked him in the eyes and offered him my joy but he indicated that this wasn't enough, so I said "Supreme I bow to thee" a few times. He stood up and had me embrace him, I hugged him, feeling very warm and loving, not aroused. Then he told me to take off my clothes. I realized that he wanted sex and I was shocked!! But, after 10 years of adoration, I could not even consider displeasing or disobeying him in a seemingly compassionate request. So I took off my Sari and everything else and he removed his dhoti.Then he sat in a chair in his underwear and motioned me to come towards him.I knelt between his legs and embraced him again.He said "touch me"I started rubbing him gently over his underwear. He pulled them down and motioned me to continue.I felt an erection and then, I felt his hand pressing my head down between his legs.In my nervousness, I felt silly.Here was my beloved Guru, who I had never dreamed of having sex with, wanting a blow-job!It was like a surreal dream.After a few minutes, he motioned for me to move back and he asked me which way I liked best, on top or underneath.I couldn't believe it, he still barely seemed to have an erection.I said I liked to be underneath and he pushed me backwards onto the floor.I had to help him insert his penis, which was only partially erect and quite small and he started pushing it into me.After a few more minutes, I felt a small squirt and then he abruptly got up.Afterward, as I was dressing, he said to me that he was very pleased with me and very proud of me and that I must never tell anyone.He said that I was specially chosen, that this was not sex but that this was his life breath he was giving me.He also mentioned that if anything happened, i.e., pregnancy, I should not even tell him but go immediately to a clinic for an abortion.Then he went and got an envelope from a drawer and gave me 15 clean, new $100 bills, enough to pay for my flight and much more.

 

Having spent the last 10 years worshiping CKG as a God and never thinking about him in a sexual way, I was in total shock, which lasted for a few days.However, I didn't question all this, I accepted what was happening. I was happy to be able to have sex and thought I should feel honored but, after this experience, I had nagging doubts about CKG and it became a constant mental battle to justify his behavior.Although I felt the sex was unnatural, mechanical and not what I would have expected with a realized soul, I satisfied myself by thinking that this was his human side and perhaps I was not as receptive as I should be because of being too nervous.I was called to CKG's house several times during the months that followed before the calls stopped.

 

Due to the emotional upheaval caused by all this, In the Fall of the next year, I left the Center with another disciple.I was out of the Center for a few years but I didn't change my beliefs.During this period I told my partner about my secret sex with CKG and he hinted to me that he too was involved, not only with CKG but that CKG had directed him to be involved with other people.The time came when my partner begged to return to the Center.I had misgivings, but I also returned and over the next several years I became aware that there were many women having sex with CKG and that there were signs that he was also having sex with men.

 

The first time that I was called for sex after my return was in Japan.CKG asked me to first write him a letter.I wrote something devotional but it wasn't what he wanted.He said I had to put details about my desire for him and explain sexual things that I had done together with my partner while I was out of the Center.After that, CKG called me for sex once or twice a year in New York and usually once during the Christmas trips.

 

Then, a few years ago I got a call at work from CKG, he wanted to introduce me to a new way to have "relations" - with women.He had me come over to his house with another woman.The first time, we had sex together downstairs, in the basement, while he waited in another room upstairs.Then the other woman went upstairs and CKG came and had sex with me.He told me that I must never talk to anyone about these trysts or relations, as he called it and that I must act as if I had never been intimate with him.At other times, we had sex on the floor while he sat on a chair and watched.I also started seeing the same woman on a regular schedule, once a month, at her home.This is something I am not proud of because I really wasn't comfortable with her and although I felt loving, sisterly feelings, the sex was unnatural for me.Also, I had gotten cold sores from her.This was very embarrassing but it also made me realize that these activities were not limited to a small, select group.I noticed that many of the women, as well as the men in the Center had similar, active, cold sores.

 

After some months, CKG arranged for me to be with a different woman, this one I saw once a week.Even though we were intimate, CKG told me that I must act as if it was my first time with a woman and that we should never discuss our other sexual experiences.The second woman was really fun to be with and I enjoyed it.However, I didn't want to change my identity and I was starting to feel that I would lose it.The relationship with the second woman started to slow down and CKG asked me to select my next partner.I couldn't let myself do this, I didn't want to think of women that way.I wanted to have sex with men and I told this to CKG but he said that it was not possible because I would fall in love, so a new woman was selected for me.

 

I had some personality conflicts with the last woman but I felt that I was compelled to please CKG and to continue to be with her.It was in May of last year, when I was just starting my relationship with the last woman that I happened to have a mammogram that turned out to be positive.There was a lump that in my breast that looked suspect and I needed to have a biopsy.CKG wanted to have the results before me, so a nurse/disciple went with me to the doctor.As I waited for the results, I felt sure it was nothing because my mother also has cystic breasts.However, when the nurse/disciple gave me the news, she was acting as if it was a miracle.Other close disciples of CKG also said that it was a miracle, CKG was claiming to have saved my life.

 

After the mammogram incident, I was becoming disillusioned with the Center and also coming to the realization that I wanted to have a real, loving, male partner and children.So it finally dawned on me that I would have to again leave the Center, this time for good.Of course, from my point of view, the risks were very great.I thought that I would possibly be leaving behind all the inner light that I had worked toward for 20 years.My very relationship with God might be compromised or maybe bad things would happen to me as CKG had drummed into my head for so many years.

 

Now that I have left Center permanently and now that I am also truly moving on from my beliefs about CKG, I feel a tremendous sense of freedom.I realize that life outside the Center is bright and fulfilling and thatmy inner light is blossoming.Looking back, I see that because I did not believe in myself, I gave CKG the credit for what I was finding in my own inner search for God.Also, I have come to the realization that I let him lie to me and manipulate me because of my own desire to be a good person, an aspiring person, an unconditionally loving person and an enlightened person.

 

Questions and answers:

 

Q: How is it possible for so many other close disciples to not know about this?

 

A:I believe it is because disciples put blind faith in CKG and, as celibates, they self-police their minds not to think, doubt or have suspicions, especially about sex.

 

Q:At what hours were you at Gurus house? Why did other people not suspect who often go to Gurus house?

 

A:In New York, I was always called to Guru's house late at night, between 1-5 a.m.People were not around to see anything.On the Christmas trip, I was called at various times, both day and night.I was always conscious never to hint or give anyone clues that I was having sex with Guru.

 

Q: Why do you feel that his behavior was wrong? If you feel it was unethical, why?

 

A:What I feel is most wrong is how he has misled the disciples into thinking that he is an Avatar, thus giving himself absolute authority over the disciples.With this absolute authority, he uses people in whatever way he pleases for sexual self-gratification and ego-promotion.He uses fear to manipulate people by creating an atmosphere of fear of the outside world and of relationships, even friendships, all in the name of spirituality.

 

Q: Why are you speaking out about CKG?

 

A:During the period, during the early/mid 1990's, when I previously spent time out of the Center, I suffered with fears, self-doubt and anxieties because of things that CKG had told me would occur when I left the Center.When I finally realized what his real motivations are and that he lied, to me and to all the other disciples, I decided that I wanted to share my personal knowledge and experience with others who are in the same place.

 

Q: What would you like to see from people who are mailed your testimonial? Would you like to see people question their Guru?

 

A:My goal is to tell the truth about CKG so that people can be empowered in their lives.Definitely they should question their Guru.I would love to see disciples believing in themselves, cherishing and claiming their own inner experiences and leading happy, balanced lives"

[DominO123]

Evidences 4

 

"Excerpts from comments by a former center leader in SF

 

Click here to email in order to verify by email

 

...I was becoming increasingly estranged from my wife. She was away on trips serving the guru, or when she was home we had less and less interaction. Our sex life (and all other affection) trickled to a halt, which confused and saddened me. She had been my adventure pal in college, and now we hardly talked....One of the turning points in my own awakening came about eight years after I left the Centre, when my former wife (who had also left by then) confided in me about the sexual relations that she had had with the guru starting in our second year of discipleship and continuing until after my departure. Her disclosure explained the strange separation we had experienced, and also freed me from any lingering uncertainties about who Chinmoy really was. I had left the Centre with an ambiguous "maybe he is a great master, but it is time for me to leave". After her revelations I was able to cut the cords still connecting me to Chinmoy and finally completely take back my own life. As angry as I was for this dark betrayal, I was also grateful for this truth, which gave me back my independence.

 

 

 

Chinmoy is a dark master; a kind of sorcerer. He is very skillful and deceptive. He lives off of the energy of others. He will say that he feeds his disciples, but I am convinced that he actually feeds from them - financially, emotionally, sexually, psychically. From the inside, his story is convincing. I was convinced for eleven years. But from the outside, his story does not hold up in the world. A good story has life no matter where it is told - his only lives inside itself. Once the cords are fully cut, he has no hold. My first wife (now a good friend) and I have talked from time to time about what we should do, if anything, about what we know. We usually take satisfaction enough in knowing that when he had us, we fed him mightily, and now we feed him not at all.

 

Saumitra "

[DominO123]

Evidence 5.

 

"Chinmoy gives permission, or turns a blind-eye, to sexual activity of one of his appointed leaders with young women in his charge

 

While in the SCC in the 1970s I was aware that certain "boys" were allowed to have sexual relations. One was a wealthy, "spiritual advanced", alcoholic who had many girlfriends outside of the SCC. His behavior was tolerated because of his advanced spiritual development. After being a disciple for a while, you learned to twist your mind around so that it was able to have many conflicting thoughts at the same time. The story about this "boy" was that he was so advanced that he needed to be in the SCC at all costs. For ordinary disciples, celibacy was mandatory. We also heard of other "boys" who engaged in sexual activity and were allowed to remain disciples. There were always justifications. We were not allowed to speak of any of this, but when someone did take the whisper these kinds of stories, they were always followed by some sort of justification.

 

Once, a close male disciple put his hand on my thigh while we were working on a project together. I told one of the guru's messengers who came back with the message that I must never speak of it to anyone, ever. If something like that happened in the SCC, it was always the fault of the girl who was "giving off impure vibrations".

 

At some point I was put into The Impurity Club, although I had forgotten it's name until I read a post by a fellow member. It was a group of "girls" who were somehow intrinsically impure. None of us had sex, thought of sex, or even looked into any of the boys' eyes. We also shunned movies and popular culture, in order to remain pure. We were not allowed to come to meditations while in this club and were to avoid gatherings of disciples. However, we were to meet (once a week? I don't remember the frequency) for discussions and meditation with one of the guru's closest and oldest disciples. The guru had told the disciples that this man had been Ananda, the Buddha's closest disciple, in a former incarnation. He was, reportedly, extremely advanced spiritually. He appeared to be a very kind and gentle person and the epitome of a spiritual person. He was always held up to the rest of us as someone who was very very advanced and very spiritual. We, in the Impurity Club, regarded him with much respect and felt blessed that we were given this chance to meet with him.

 

I had a headache during one of the meetings and he asked me to stay behind after the other girls had left. He asked me to lie down on his bed/couch. I thought nothing of this, since he was so holy. I thought he was going to do some relaxation technique, or perhaps meditate on me to cure my headache. He told me to close my eyes, which I did. He then started putting his hands all over my breasts and started working his way down my body. I sat up, told him my headache was fine and I left.

 

I told one of my friends about this, and then told one of the guru's messengers. The messenger came back with the command from the guru that I was never, ever to speak of this to anyone. There was no excuse given for this man, nor was there an apology given for having appointed a leader to our group who betrayed my trust. The woman emphasized that absolutely no one should EVER be told about this. I went back to the friend I had told and repeated this admonishment to her. She said, "Me tell anyone? Are you kidding? My tongue would fall out if I repeated that story!!!" She was joking but knew that we would both be thrown out of the center for telling anyone.

 

Many years later, I had still not told anyone. One day, I ran into a former disciple and former member of the Impurity Club who, without knowing my experience, told me her story about the club. This man had done far worse to her. She was much younger than I, and believed that what he was doing to her, and what he asked her to do to him, was for her own good. She was revolted but went along with it so that she would be allowed back into the center. Years later when I again ran into her she told me that she had spent years in therapy trying to overcome the effects of the abuse. She was still working on trying to find a relationship to God and trying to deal with the effects of the abuse in other areas of her life. She cannot even look at the ex-disciple websites because of the memories that are brought up.

 

Fast forward to the present time when I have since heard from others who say that the word was getting around at the time that this "spiritually advanced" leader of the Impurity Club, was a very impure man. He had many of the women performing sex acts on him. I would assume that he told them all it would be good for their spiritual development and purity, as he told my friend.

 

Chinmoy knew about this and did nothing. He did worse than nothing, he tried to suppress the story, so that one "girl" after another had to endure the abuse in the name of purity, trying to get accepted back into the center. Whether Chinmoy suggested to this man that he could use these young women for his own sexual needs, or whether he allowed it to happen by not canceling all further meetings once he heard the first report, he is to be held responsible, along with the elderly predator. "

[Sasun]

including the two-story home on 149th Street where he lives

 

This is actually the house he lives in, but the four others do not seem to be true. Ever wonder why addresses are not mentioned? Could it be that there are no such addresses where he has addresses?

 

Domino, that qoute is unverifiable. You see, when you bring more-less trustworthy people, the quotes do not support the claim, but are as you well said "something like that". But then there are also many claims that are not veryfiable.

 

Domino, it is pointless. What is the point of quoting a post (note that it is in upper case) from the internet? I am questioning those posts no matter you quote or not. You see the familiar pattern: he was good in the beginning, then he got corrupted somehow. The reason they do that because they are sure that there have been many people witnessing the lifts, so there goes the beginning "good story". But then there comes the "bad story", so it seems truthful.

 

Domino, once again, I have been and eyewitness. He puts people one his both sides and struggles to raise (and it is also taped). He does not always succeed on the first, even second and third shots. And because the lifts are short he can't be sure that he actually lifted. So evertime he tries he has to ask to verify. So he turns to left and asks "Did you see, did you see?" Then he turns to right and asks again "Did you see, did you see?" Depending on the answer he continues or not. This is what I have seen with my own eyes. Why are you trying to tell me that I am delusional and should instead believe the photographer. I haven't seen the 7 thousand pounds, but have seen other impressive lifts. So I highly doubt this photographers claim.

[DominO123]

How much more "evidences" ? I am posting ex-disciples account, there are bunch of such testimonials... of many sort of abuses...

 

While you want evidences, you don't even accept them when I post them. So whos the stubborn now?

[DominO123]

This is actually the house he lives in, but the four others do not seem to be true. Ever wonder why addresses are not mentioned? Could it be that there are no such addresses where he has addresses?

 

Domino, that qoute is unverifiable. You see, when you bring more-less trustworthy people, the quotes do not support the claim, but are as you well said "something like that". But then there are also many claims that are not veryfiable.

 

Domino, it is pointless. What is the point of quoting a post (note that it is in upper case) from the internet? I am questioning those posts no matter you quote or not. You see the familiar pattern: he was good in the beginning, then he got corrupted somehow. The reason they do that because they are sure that there have been many people witnessing the lifts, so there goes the beginning "good story". But then there comes the "bad story", so it seems truthful.

 

Domino, once again, I have been and eyewitness. He puts people one his both sides and struggles to raise (and it is also taped). He does not always succeed on the first, even second and third shots. And because the lifts are short he can't be sure that he actually lifted. So evertime he tries he has to ask to verify. So he turns to left and asks "Did you see, did you see?" Then he turns to right and asks again "Did you see, did you see?" Depending on the answer he continues or not. This is what I have seen with my own eyes. Why are you trying to tell me that I am delusional and should instead believe the photographer. I haven't seen the 7 thousand pounds, but have seen other impressive lifts. So I highly doubt this photographers claim.

Are you suggesting that the New York post writer has lied? Must be such an important conspiration, all of those people targetting this poor saint soul, with his insignificant little group of 300 disciples? Yeh! Those accusers have not nothing better to do with their times than targeting such a small organisation... poor him, he should be chanonised by the Vatican.

 

Oh, and the internet as well, all lies... they have even pied the best directors and prossers, the most skillful writers to write such stories that even the best writer could not have writen it.

[Sasun]

Domino, once again, crimes are only proven in court, only testimonies by real people, not internet posts, are accepted as valid testimonies.

 

If you are going to bring more trash from the internet I have nothing to say. Parroting does not help.. you are doing a vicious job, you yourself are using psychological technics. Your arguments fail, so you started to spam with disturbing & false stories to confuse the readers and make them forget that you have not answered logical questions.

[DominO123]

You're right, we should not trust the internet, because Chinmoy commit sabotage of the Internet as well.

 

http://momorgan.com/srichinmoy/

[Sasun]

Are you suggesting that the New York post writer has lied?

Did I accuse? I only questioned. I am suggesting not to take anything on the internet by blind faith.

 

Oh, and the internet as well, all lies... they have even pied the best directors and prossers, the most skillful writers to write such stories that even the best writer could not have writen it.

 

The internet is full of truths and lies. You are using one internet source, I am suggesting another internet source. You are calling my source controlled without any base, simply assuming that gurus control people. I am saying that your source is not credible because 1) they were expelled 2) they lost their youth 3) they started to hate discipline and the guru 4) your sources target all spiritual groups, they even brand Al Qaida with the spiritual groups, they assume that meditation and singing are forms of mind control.

[Armat]

Domino

The weird thing about these woman are that after experiancing sexual experiance with their Guru then they stayed and had more sex and some even ten years...I would pack my bag after first incident and even before that but why the repeat experiances.There is something weird about it.

[Armat]

Sasun why all these allegations and why not with Deli Lama .In his case none! If your guru is innocent then none of these would come to surface. I don't buy the disgruntled disciple logic. One can be disgruntled but accusing someone essentially of rape is a very serious charge.

Another issue is why would an honest man ask his photographer to manipulate the pictures. It shows vanity and self-glorification.

[Boghos]

This guy is nothing but a profiteer, a charlatan that abuses New Age pseudo enlightenment. It has happened many times in the past, it will happen again in the future.

[Sasun]

Sasun why all these allegations and why not with Deli Lama .In his case none! If your guru is innocent then none of these would come to surface. I don't buy the disgruntled disciple logic. One can be disgruntled but accusing someone essentially of rape is a very serious charge.

Another issue is why would an honest man ask his photographer to manipulate the pictures. It shows vanity and self-glorification.

Why was Jesus betrayed by his own desciple and abandoned by all his other disciples? Why was Buddha accused of impregnating a woman by that same woman?

 

Are you sure that Dalai Lama was never accused of anything wrong?

 

Well, as to the photographer, don't be sure that he was asked to to manipulate. I don't know the truthfulness of the story or the quote. One photographer does not decide anything. This was not a one time event and meant to make everyone believe. Weightlifting events were shown several times on the TV taped by news channels, they will happen again, people can go and see themselves.

[Sasun]

This guy is nothing but a profiteer, a charlatan that abuses New Age pseudo enlightenment. It has happened many times in the past, it will happen again in the future.

Oh well...

[Boghos]

Cult theater and exits to hell notes about role-identity, conversion and rites of passage

 

Elitist social activities led by charismatic leaders who demean and often dread the surrounding reality are commonly called “cults.” However, cult activity takes many other forms that may not demean or dread the social environment. For example, the Society for Creative Anachronism includes a cult of fantasy and character roles assumed by members during Renaissance festivals and events. Outsiders are entertained, not threatened or demeaned, by such cult activity though some members may be obsessed with their roles. Movies and shows take on cult status when individuals attend repeatedly, often participating with ritualistic behaviors, dress or responses. In the broad sense cult activity is common within a wide variety of social and business groups. Stock market players focus on a cult of profits when they repeatedly trade shares for no other reason than monetary gain.

 

Cult behavior and obsession are often not far apart. Non-aligned spiritual seekers who dabble in many forms of religion and the occult often venerate the “path” itself as it leads to their primary cult object, the transpersonal Self. Cult ritual exists in clubs, churches or “orders” that have degrees or levels of initiation—Freemasonry, Latter Day Saints, Elks, Knights of Columbus. Cults are easiest to recognize when adherents dress, talk or behave differently. The cult label does not indicate levels of appropriate or abusive activity.

 

Cults attract negative attention when group activity is systematically harmful, irrational and/or illegal. The Flat Earth Society may be a socially benign cult, but it obsesses over an irrational belief. Breatharianism has around 5000 adherents worldwide—practitioners eat very little and believe that humans ultimately can live on air alone. In Australia in 1999, the leaders of a small breatharian cult were convicted of killing a disciple. Cock fighting represents a gaming cult that exists in illegal territory.

 

Many cults actually utilize theater and stage productions to influence members. Rudolf Steiner (died 1925), the founder of Anthroposophy, established an art form on stage called Eurythmy that has both didactic and ritual meanings. Sri Chinmoy, a controversial guru, since 1966 still stages musical performances featuring himself [clumsily in my experience] improvising with many instruments. The ICC and the Potters House Christian cults put on morality dramas as tools to teach and recruit. G. I. Gurdjieff (died 1949) created many forms of theater for his cult members, chiefly when the group lived or met at a commune in France: “The door to the Prieuré was guarded—you had to ring loudly to get in—and once in, the strange combination of monastery, labor camp, and Mad Hatter’s Tea-Party excluded the world beyond the institute’s walls; a world from which Gurdjieff’s Citroén arrived….like an intruder from reality” (Webb, 548).

 

Social groups that teach doctrine meant to radically separate members from family and the out-group are especially targeted by the many counter-cult organizations as “destructive.” Another feature of tightly organized counter-social groups is a totalist one. Such groups practice “idealogical totalism,” an expression coined by Robert J. Lifton (1961) in his studies on "brainwashing” in China. A common feature of totalist cults with their characteristic closed system is their “continuous theater” of rituals and roles that makes the “in-group” or members distinct from non-members. Lifton calls it “psychological closure”—a condition of perception that does not easily entertain conflicting information. If you are not “on stage” as a committed player, you’re not saved, enlightened, or in higher consciousness. Cults become most controversial when their theater is continuous with no way out without condemnation by the group, and their presentation is too bizarre or condescending for outsiders to appreciate or tolerate. A social system is “closed” when no authority figure outside the group management has value concerning questions of doctrine, behaviors or management.

 

 

Brainwashing or conversion

 

How a member assumes a role in a controversial theater is a process often with two names from two points of view: The in-group and supporters may call it conversion, but the out-group and critics may call it brainwashing. The reverse could also be true as “brainwashing,” coined by writer Edward Hunter in the mid-twentieth century, was derived from the Chinese concept hsi nao, properly translated as “thought reform.” Thought reform for the larger, sacred cause of the group agenda was (is) a good thing in Communist China. To convert means to transform or change—to change from one perspective, doctrine or religion to another. Brainwashing or thought reform implies a program or systematic manipulation of a recruit to replace out-group thoughts and behaviors with in-group ones. Conversion implies similar manipulations by the in-group, but it does not carry the pejorative baggage associated with brainwashing in modern, western culture. For the most part the general social reaction is tolerance toward conversion to, say, Catholicism, the Baptists or the Methodist Church, but is suspicion about conversion to controversial new religious movements—the “con” is emphasized as recruits are seen as being taken into the confidence of a spurious group. A common perception is that new recruits are brainwashed into joining controversial or fringe groups, whereas they convert to main line religions.

 

Stage Hypnosis and hidden agendas

 

Most of you reading this have experienced or seen a hypnotist perform on stage. Typically, the performer selects audience volunteers who pass certain tests. The hypnotist establishes rapport as an “authority figure,” and he or she is looking for compliance and suggestibility in any volunteer. Because it is entertainment, rapport is not difficult to establish--the hypnotist is hiding nothing despite the participants who may be ignorant about suggestibility. Recruiters for cults most often seek people with whom they can establish rapport and who they can entertain with stories about their own conversion, doctrine, leader or group. Recruiters from controversial groups, like Amway, tend to disguise their group until they are pressed or after initial indoctrination sessions about the “beneficial” nature of their agenda.

 

The hypnotist might do a general test for suggestibility, for example, by asking audience members to clasp their hands and fingers together above their heads. He will pace them all through a slow count, put them under what appears to be a mild trance, and suggest that their hands are now “locked” by an invisible force. He will then state that many of them will not be able to pull their hands apart at his command. Some will not be able to pull their hands apart. He wants those people up on stage because they have demonstrated suggestibility to his authority. If they come up on stage, they demonstrate compliance and “trust.” Now he can go on to direct the show. The hypnotist does not want skeptics, the insane or rebels on stage as they can ruin the act—the cult recruiters also screen out such non-compliant types.

 

By instinct and by imitation of how they were recruited, many cult recruiters inadvertently mimic the techniques of the stage hypnotist. After establishing rapport with someone the recruiter can expose a special interest of the recruit indicated through appearance or “costume,” a pamphlet, or merely talk. Engaging someone to assume a listening attitude is the same as inducing a mild trance, thus increasing suggestibility. Once engaged the recruiter will instinctively evaluate the new prospect and determine how much compliance the recruit is willing to give. They may meet again alone or the recruit may be quickly invited to a group meeting. At this stage, the new recruit has also established dependence on suggestions made by his recruiter who is now an authority figure for this interesting “news” or new path. Suggestions about performance [behaviors] may come quickly, such as: “Be careful not to talk about this to anyone not in our group—they may not understand and you need to know more so you do not misrepresent us, and we have been harassed by unenlightened people.” Thus, the suggestion that outsiders are unenlightened has been planted.

 

The performance aspect depends on how quickly the new member learns scripts (group jargon) and assumes roles (group rituals and behaviors). A stage hypnotist can induce instant performance because the expectations are not complex, life changing, or threatening. To briefly pretend to be a famous German chef after a hypnotist has relaxed your inhibitions is humorous; to assume a complete role in support of your salvation, a role that might include shunning your family and old way of life, is grave. The latter role demands elaborate absorption of new choreography and an ultimate doctrine. It may take months to learn. To perform properly a new recruit must emulate role models—many will take on the accent or language style of the leaders, for example. The role models generally savor the chance to teach what they have learned or assimilated. This teaching ritual offers power of authority and it reinforces conviction. It also enables the recruiter to imitate their hero, the guru or leader who choreographs and directs the cult theater.

 

Radical splits: Gnosticism revisited

 

Groups that create an impressive cosmology that devalues the physical world while exalting the “knowledge” (gnosis) of spiritual states recreate ancient gnosticism. Pratkanis and Aronson in the book Age of Propaganda wrote a chapter on “How to become a cult leader.” Step two of seven states that you must use a “granfalloon” technique that requires the creation of an in-group of followers and an out-group of the unredeemed: “If you want to be chosen, you must act like a chosen one” (p 243). Gnosticism thrived in many forms and cults from the first through the fourth centuries—most Gnostic myths extrapolated from the Christian Gospels. The Gnostic teachings veered from traditional Christianity that found good values in the created world—Gnostics preferred that the physical creation disappear altogether as it was a horrible mistake not created by the true or “alien” God. Cults that find little good in the world and society around them reflect Gnostic values. The hallmark of Gnosticism is a radical form of dualism that separates spirit from matter. This often has the effect of separating believers from family and social connections that value the material world more. A spate of new religious movements founded in the 20th century revived the radical dualism of Gnosticism in many forms.

 

Confusion with expectation enables manipulation

 

“How am I to perform” is a statement of confusion framed in a question. Every new recruit, like every new employee, goes through stages of confusion and dependence. The hypnotist’s subjects are also confused on purpose due to a high-paced delivery and quick changes in suggestions. The compliant subjects on stage are easier to manipulate if their expectations are aroused—and they are. They expect something weird to happen and they expect the hypnotist/guru to come up with the guidance as to what. Another way to look at this is through the eyes of a long suffering, battered woman—she got that way most likely because her expectation of love in a marriage was confused by attempting to perform for a husband who can be charming, but has an anger disorder. Battered women remain in abusive relationships due to confused dependence. Confused people have difficulties making clear decisions. Once a compliant subject has merged into the manipulative field of influence, it is difficult for the subject to exit on out-group terms—he or she no longer has psychological, and perhaps physical, control over the terms of exit, and exit could mean hell, more abuse, insanity or death.

 

Unlike the stage hypnotist or Broadway director, the cult guru offers no normal way out of his or her theater. The exit becomes an exit to hell, a return to insanity or a fallen world, or, a ticket to injury and death. The cult is now the only reality “worth” pursuing, and the world is divided between the saved and unsaved, the sacred and the profane, the enlightened and the ignorant. The tighter the script, the stronger the boundary between us and them, and the greater the degree of exclusivity [our leader is the only One], the more difficult it becomes for the believer to exit. The member’s only “choice” is to perform better. Healthy, socialized groups offer a wide latitude of self expression within their rules, offer a way to challenge and remove leaders when necessary, and do not condemn outsiders merely for not believing as they do. Groups or cults become destructive when exits are psychologically or spiritually barred for reasons that become corrupt when the member takes the time to see what is actually going on “back or off stage.”

 

 

Off stage reality: don’t look behind that curtain

 

Most new religious movements and cults fail because the leaders are immature or unstable authority figures who perpetuate grandiose self-myths and develop paranoid policies toward critics. These closed systems tend to collapse within a generation or two as leaders hoard power to change corrupt policies and hidden agendas. New devotees and old are constantly influenced to avoid dissent. Doubt and criticism of the teacher and doctrine demonstrates lack of faith, intelligence and spiritual advancement to the in-group. The typical devotee will proudly dismiss or justify any evidence of sexual, financial or legal indiscretion by leadership as misinterpretations or outright lies. They will blame “mid-managers” or new devotees who allegedly acted on their own. The ultimate copout is to claim that critics are not enlightened enough to grasp the ways of the leader.

 

In totalist groups, rarely does one act “on his own” volition. If you do not follow the script, you may become an outcast and lose all right to participate as a cast member in the “kingdom” on stage. Every feeling and thought is micro-managed and compared to teachings and group expectations in a totalist milieu. If a thought or feeling deviates from the script, the devotee learns to admonish himself. If the devotee expresses any doubt or deviance, the milieu will admonish him. Suggestions and vague hints are as powerful as commands in cult-theater. Mind control or policing one’s thoughts in the name of loyalty or “faith” can be more effective than an armed guard to keep oneself from exiting the theater stage.

 

In the wonderful fairy tale, The Wizard of Oz, we can find ample illustrations of theater processes that cults often mimic. Dorothy and her small dog, Toto, are swept away into a magical land after Dorothy suffers a blow to the head during a tornado. Dorothy experiences an altered state of consciousness, and her entire field of reference was altered—she is in a different world and wants to go “home.” But she also wants to save Toto from legal destruction—Toto represents her reasonable faith in what is right and wrong. In cults, the definition of home is altered. First, Dorothy must find the wizard [guru, leader] who has the power to direct her homeward. She is thrust into a world of forces, both good and evil. Many new cult recruits experience this internal tug-of-war during initiation stages between forces that would dissuade them from reaching a leader, especially one they need to obey if they are to get “home.”

 

The Oz tale ends with the backstage revelation that the Wizard is a mere man, a charlatan who manipulates his stage presence to maintain power over his flock. Toto, the force of reasonable faith, exposes the false god by pulling the curtain on him. The difference between this charlatan and the average deluded or unscrupulous cult leader is one of character—the Wizard wisely rewards his disciples after he is exposed. He leaves Oz under the committee rule of wisdom, charity and courage—Scarecrow, Tin Man and Lion. Demented and paranoid leaders control members by crudely devaluing challengers and defectors. The Wizard capitulated to his critics--real men who replaced his fake power with authentic values. The good witch, Glinda, at the end instructs Dorothy that she always had the power to go home—all she had to do was click her ruby slipper heals and repeat “There’s no place like home” three times. She has saved her faith [Toto] from wicked legalism—she feels safe to go home. Glinda represents free will aligned with true and healthy purpose. Similarly, many cult members will not dare leave the set until back stage experience and information [often from former members, sometimes from exit counselors or news articles] expose the true nature of their theater director and the underlying, corrupt message of their performance.

 

 

Rite of passage

 

According to Arnold van Gennep, who published Les rites de passage in 1908, significant transitions in the life-path and perception of any individual are often accompanied by “rites.” For example, rituals and ceremonies often accompany a young man or woman in transition into adulthood in traditional societies. These rites vary in technique from sympathetic and contagious to direct, indirect, positive, and negative (van Gannep, 14). Although members and new recruits argue for positive features in their transitions into a controversial cult, the negative features can easily undermine their claims when examined from ex-member testimony and investigative report. The value of controversial cult life, if any, for the former member comes from a keen awareness of a radical transition that changed them for life—converting to and later emerging from a controversial cult is an extraordinary rite of passage. The lessons can be unlike any available in other life transitions. Depending on their experience and character, people emerge from cults with varying degrees of insight into matters sacred and profane, and of effects in their body-mind worlds.

 

Although most people eventually exit, or dare to exit, from high-demand, controversial groups, not all of them like Dorothy in the Oz story are ready to “go home” with their lessons. Many linger in familiar fields of religious pursuit hoping to salvage some meaning from a corrupt experience. For example, many former Hare Krishna devotees pursue Bhakti (devotional) styles of Hinduism for some time, while others have found relevance in fundamentalist Christianity where the legalism and literalism repeat similar doctrinal approaches of the Hare Krishna sect. Ex-members of groups that emphasize vegetarian diets often hold on to their non-meat lifestyle for some time. It is not unusual for ex-members of puritanical groups to continue to uphold moral rules from their group experience, but some react by taking on behaviors forbidden by their cult. What they cannot retain is that special position on the cult stage as a committed actor in some cult leader’s grand scheme.

 

 

All the world is a stage

 

Life takes on deeper meaning during the most dramatic events or “rites of passage” in people lives. These events can be celebrations, comedies or tragedies. We tell and retell stories about these events—novels and plays are wrapped around such dramas. The Christian Gospel is a traditional example of high theater in print that continues to inspire over a billion people. The story of Jesus for them is the ultimate drama. People often find meaning and inspiration in theatrical presentations—they go because they get to feel a catharsis, be it in joy, sadness or fear, that is not available to them in an everyday experience. It should be easy to understand why so many cults thrive in the spiritual and self-improvement marketplace when you consider that many people enjoy being special and “on stage” despite the hardships of a non-stop show with high demands on the actors. Many ex-members are depressed just after exiting, partially because life is not as energized or directed or special as when they were cult bound. It can take time to regroup and take on a mundane role in a world that is not so exciting, at least not until the ex-member realizes the freedom to act in a less restricted, more responsible way.

 

 

References:

Lyman Frank Baum, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz

Giovanni Filoramo (1990) A History of Gnosticism

Gillian Harris, April 6, 2000. ‘Starvation guru given hostile reception.’ Dundee Courier,

Scotland, p. 9.

Robert J. Lifton (1961, 1997) Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism

Anthony Pratkanis and Elliot Aronson (1991) Age of Propaganda

Arnold van Gennep (1908, 1972) The Rites of Passage

James Webb (1987) The Harmonious Circle

[Sasun]

This is typical of anti-cultists. They are not just against cults, but all religious practices. As I have mentioned already, they consider singing harmful. That is outrageous. But they seem to believe in hell.

 

All the world is a stage

 

Life takes on deeper meaning during the most dramatic events or “rites of passage” in people lives. These events can be celebrations, comedies or tragedies. We tell and retell stories about these events—novels and plays are wrapped around such dramas. The Christian Gospel is a traditional example of high theater in print that continues to inspire over a billion people. The story of Jesus for them is the ultimate drama. People often find meaning and inspiration in theatrical presentations—they go because they get to feel a catharsis, be it in joy, sadness or fear, that is not available to them in an everyday experience. It should be easy to understand why so many cults thrive in the spiritual and self-improvement marketplace when you consider that many people enjoy being special and “on stage” despite the hardships of a non-stop show with high demands on the actors. Many ex-members are depressed just after exiting, partially because life is not as energized or directed or special as when they were cult bound. It can take time to regroup and take on a mundane role in a world that is not so exciting, at least not until the ex-member realizes the freedom to act in a less restricted, more responsible way.

 

Well, they are suggesting that Christian religion is also a cult, and perhaps Jesus was also a cult leader?

Ignorance has no bounds.

 

And the "hypnosis" claim is an absurd superstition (Not that I expect anything sane form anti-cultists)

[Boghos]

It is very difficult to convince someone when he is blindly taken by faith in whatever hoax it may be.

 

You are, of course, cherry picking whatever arguments you find in support of your thesis, in order to discredit the spirit of the text. No matter, history is on the side of sane observers of the scene. I´d rather find amusement in the circus and keep real spiritual life for myself.

 

Furthermore I believe it is a serious problem that a religious fanatic moderates this thread. After all, this is the Hye Forum religion board, not Sasun´s religion board.

[THOTH]

Well, they are suggesting that Christian religion is also a cult, and perhaps Jesus was also a cult leader?

agreed - both are clearly true...(ie christianity is a cult - particularly in its origins..of course it is numerous cults now that all share a central theme - but not necessarily much else)..and yes - Jesus - a cult leader (if he existed)...more likely he is just fiction or an agrandizement of perhaps an insightful and caring man turned into...well...I'll leave it at that...certainly he is a complete aglomeration of various savior/rebirth gods from many neighboring civilizations as well as having his "history" crafted to fit the various (and in particular - though not exclusively) Jewish messanic traditions...

[THOTH]

Furthermore I believe it is a serious problem that a religious fanatic moderates this thread. After all, this is the Hye Forum religion board, not Sasun´s religion board.

agreed...and concerning your other points as well...

[Sasun]

It is very difficult to convince someone when he is blindly taken by faith in whatever hoax it may be.

You don't know anything about what you call a hoax. However, you have your opinion and I have mine.

You quoted your text from the same website that lists Al Qaida with spiritual groups, and calls singing, meditating, praying as harmful for the mind. To me that is witch-hunting.

 

You are, of course, cherry picking whatever arguments you find in support of your thesis, in order to discredit the spirit of the text.  No matter, history is on the side of sane observers of the scene. I´d rather find amusement in the circus and keep real spiritual life for myself.

 

Yes, of course, say that when you have no argument.

 

Furthermore I believe it is a serious problem that a religious fanatic moderates this thread. After all, this is the Hye Forum religion board, not Sasun´s religion board.

 

You are clearly wrong. I post on religion only on the religious parts of the forum.