Armat Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 To be fair I have no problems with Sasun moderating in Hye forum.He has done a good job in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Guys, I suggest you all take a few moments to cool off before continuing on. Obviously this is a sensitive topic for many, and it's easy to tak things too personally. I don't think we should should question Sasun's ability to moderate objectively. That being said, I think some of the posts in this topic (i haven't read them ALL) have gotten too personal, and touched an emotional chord - so this can be a legitimate excuse for any action that may be considered borderline. I also don't feel it's our place to lay judgement on anyone's guilt/innocence without substanciated proof - but it is within all of our rights to discuss such matters - as long as the discussion doesn't degenerate into a vortex of insults, repeated arguments, and disparaging remarks. In other words, let's all take a break from this topic for a couple of days... maybe after, we can begin a discussion on a non-personal level. I'll leave the thread open for now, but if I must, i'll close it temporarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Is this man dead or alive? If he's alive his ears must be burning on a daily basis and if he is no longer with us,he must be doing summersaults in his grave by now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 (edited) You don't know anything about what you call a hoax. Sasun, my dear, I have spent part of my academic life researching similar phenomenae, charlatans, snake oil salesmen, frauds and the like. This is just but another one. In a few yearr, hopefully, you´ll get out. The problem is not the charlatans themselves but the fact that a portion of the population have the need to be attached to these types of father figures... Edited July 16, 2004 by Boghos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 I don't think we should should question Sasun's ability to moderate objectively. Dear vava, I think we should be able to question Sasun´s or any other moderator ability to do his/her role properly. Objectivity is absolutely essential and more than that, a moderator, religious fanatic, cult follower or not, should be extra careful when making certain assertions otherwise his credibility is totally lost. This, in my view, is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 (edited) Guys, I suggest you all take a few moments to cool off before continuing on. Obviously this is a sensitive topic for many, and it's easy to tak things too personally. I don't think we should should question Sasun's ability to moderate objectively. That being said, I think some of the posts in this topic (i haven't read them ALL) have gotten too personal, and touched an emotional chord - so this can be a legitimate excuse for any action that may be considered borderline. I also don't feel it's our place to lay judgement on anyone's guilt/innocence without substanciated proof - but it is within all of our rights to discuss such matters - as long as the discussion doesn't degenerate into a vortex of insults, repeated arguments, and disparaging remarks. In other words, let's all take a break from this topic for a couple of days... maybe after, we can begin a discussion on a non-personal level. I'll leave the thread open for now, but if I must, i'll close it temporarily. Vava, I never questioned Sasuns ability to moderate in other boards than the theology boards. You are telling that we should not accuse without substancial "proof." I consider substantial "proof" the fact that a little organisation that has no more than 300 disciples get so much accusations from the large majority of the ex-disciples... visit the boards of the ex-members, read the testemonials, there are even disciples communication there and asking how they could get out of the group. You have two photographs, one of them a world known artist... which admit having manipulated pictures... the second whom I posted the testemony was the one signing the autentification of the 3000 pound lifting... There is just more than substancial "proof." I just don't wan't hyeforum to make publicity of this charlatan for the sake of the victims. And more about the accusations, the Raelians are a bigger organizations, and per ratio of ex-members vs the members, the accusations that one find are folds lower than the one of Chinmoy. I will report crimes whomever I see them, and I do that waiting the forum rules, it is not because one of the criminals happens to be Chinmoy that I should not say what I think of him. I've read enough testemonials in the last 5 years to know which ones are suspicious and which ones are not... and I can say that those comming from ex-discipiles seem to be by far the most sincere ones I came accross. I don't think there is any individual intelligent enough in this world to have forged such quality testemonials, if someone invented them, no film director stand a chance against him. I even thought inviting one of the victims to register here and discuss in one of the concerned threads to show Sasun... the only reason I did not do was because those victims seems so fragile that I was concerned of their response of Sasuns allusions about them. Run a search on google "chinmoy abuses" Hyeforum is now at the top of the list... they will eventually read what is writen here. Edited July 16, 2004 by Fadix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Dear vava, I think we should be able to question Sasun´s or any other moderator ability to do his/her role properly. Objectivity is absolutely essential and more than that, a moderator, religious fanatic, cult follower or not, should be extra careful when making certain assertions otherwise his credibility is totally lost. Boghos jan, I agree entirely with your statement above. We should be able to question the actions of anyone that is placed in a role of authority (and I do use that term very loosely - this is, after all, merely an internet discussion board ) However, i think that there is a separation between a person's opinions & beliefs as a *member* of this forum, and their actions as moderator. And the two don't necessarily equate. As members, we are all entitled to our beliefs, and we retain the right to express them provided we respect the forum's Code of Conduct. I believe that is the case here - but again, I have not read all the posts, nor do I have the time to do so. I intervened, only to encourage folks to allow cooler heads to prevail - no one likes to see their 'friends' bicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Domino is not only the Turkish denialist killer he is also a first rate fraud buster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 (edited) Domino is not only the Turkish denialist killer he is also a first rate fraud buster. Do you remember the recent study that came up about smelling lies? The Armenians and Turks from the study were considered those that could detect the most lies, their ability was even close to the lie detector. Don't know if the size of our nose has to do with that. Edited July 16, 2004 by Fadix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Boghos jan, I agree entirely with your statement above. We should be able to question the actions of anyone that is placed in a role of authority (and I do use that term very loosely - this is, after all, merely an internet discussion board ) However, i think that there is a separation between a person's opinions & beliefs as a *member* of this forum, and their actions as moderator. And the two don't necessarily equate. As members, we are all entitled to our beliefs, and we retain the right to express them provided we respect the forum's Code of Conduct. I believe that is the case here - but again, I have not read all the posts, nor do I have the time to do so. I intervened, only to encourage folks to allow cooler heads to prevail - no one likes to see their 'friends' bicker. vava jan, I am repeating myself by saying that you have a very clear and balanced view of facts. What can I say...if I were in Montreal we could just go for a beer now, after all it is almost the end of the week... We might even see some Hare Krishna, which are much better than this fraud Sri "bzdeek khiar" Chinmoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Vava-just a clarification, the reference to the code of conduct does not concerns this thread, but the other about mind control... the abuse of power I am talking about happened on the other thread where my accusations against Chinmoy were deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 vava jan, I am repeating myself by saying that you have a very clear and balanced view of facts. What can I say...if I were in Montreal we could just go for a beer now, after all it is almost the end of the week... We might even see some Hare Krishna, which are much better than this fraud Sri "bzdeek khiar" Chinmoy. "Bzdig khiar" claim is a fraud... he doesn't even say the truth about the size of his ... That's a way for him to attract his victims... first it is about a so-called workout to increase its size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Domino jan, Whether or not this man is guilty or innocent of the accusations that have been brought forth (have the allegations actually been filed in a court of law?) is really not my concern. I will neither defend, nor condemn without adequate information - which obviously, I do not have. I am simply concerned about the personal tone that has been adopted in this thread - as much as you may feel that Sasun is 'blindly' defending this man, he may feel that you're slandering him without reason. I don't know who's right - and quite frankly don't really care that much. Perhaps, you're all partially, which is often the case in these kinds of arguments. I DO have a suggestion, and that is to take a break from the thread, consider boths sides, and to try not to get personal - and I'm not directing this at anyone in particular. Oh dear! Look at me, I've been sucked in, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 BTW Boghos, I'd love a beer right about now Domino, I'll have a look at the other thread. But I really don't want to get too involved - just trying to make peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 I used to worship at the temple of St. Ambroise, that was a real cult . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 did somebody say beer ???? I strongly agree with Vava, and for those who will take this under cosidaration might as well fallow Vavas idea, let things cool off a bit, and have a at list a beer or ............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Oh dear! Look at me, I've been sucked in, too! hahahahaaha Vay Vava jan, when you will learn not to get sucked into one of Domino's black holes! there is only one solution left, ban Domino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 (edited) Sasun, my dear, I have spent part of my academic life researching similar phenomenae, charlatans, snake oil salesmen, frauds and the like. This is just but another one. In a few yearr, hopefully, you´ll get out. The problem is not the charlatans themselves but the fact that a portion of the population have the need to be attached to these types of father figures... Dear witch hunter, To call someone a charlatan you should provide with solid proof. I challenge you to go to the court and make your "charlatan" claim, do you have the balls and integrity to do that mr. wise guy? Your so called research is good for nothing in this discussion. While you call yourself a Christian you fail to realize that Jesus Christ would have been accused as a charlatan by people like you. Like todays gurus Jesus also had disciples, like today's gurus Jesus also was betrayed by his disciples. Like todays gurus Jesus also taught them pretty much the same things, to pray, to meditate, to worship God, to be kind to others, to practice spirituality rather than go after worldly pleasures. You and your hero "prophet" Domino fail to back up your claims with anything worthwile. You have only internet gossip on your side. A decent individual and an honest intellectual, when criticizing a person will talk about ideas expressed by the person, will crticize his books, his philosophy. Sri Chinmoy has written more than 1400 books, has written hundreds and thousands of songs, has made thousands of paintings, has given many concernts internationally. I don't think you can find too many people in the history of mankind with such a profile. How many books have you written Boghos? Have you read anything from Sri Chinmoy, do you have any idea whome you are trashing? Does your trashing remind you of anything human? You and Domino are indeed little men ingnorantly attacking a great man like little puppies will bark at an elephant. You are both mindless bashers and slanderers. You both have resorted to disgusting obsceneties portraying your low intellectual level and low degree of morality. And Mr. Boghos, do you think I don't understand why you all of a sudden started to attack me? You had started a stupid thread trying to belittle another forum member, which I removed. Of course, Mr. Boghos, a longtime member, cannot stand that. Therefore I am a "fanatic" and should not be a moderator... have some decency. Edited July 18, 2004 by Sasun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 (edited) I consider substantial "proof" the fact that a little organisation that has no more than 300 disciples get so much accusations from the large majority of the ex-disciples... My dear fake friend, how did you come up with this ridiculous lie? Please visit New York city, I will pay for your trip. I will show you 300 disciples only in the New York City center. visit the boards of the ex-members, read the testemonials, there are even disciples communication there and asking how they could get out of the group. Domino, disciples are free to leave. When they want to leave they just leave. You have two photographs, one of them a world known artist... which admit having manipulated pictures... the second whom I posted the testemony was the one signing the autentification of the 3000 pound lifting... Do I care about ambigous claims by photographers if I can see with my own eyes? There is just more than substancial "proof." I just don't wan't hyeforum to make publicity of this charlatan for the sake of the victims. And more about the accusations, the Raelians are a bigger organizations, and per ratio of ex-members vs the members, the accusations that one find are folds lower than the one of Chinmoy. I will report crimes whomever I see them, and I do that waiting the forum rules, it is not because one of the criminals happens to be Chinmoy that I should not say what I think of him. I've read enough testemonials in the last 5 years to know which ones are suspicious and which ones are not... and I can say that those comming from ex-discipiles seem to be by far the most sincere ones I came accross. I don't think there is any individual intelligent enough in this world to have forged such quality testemonials, if someone invented them, no film director stand a chance against him. You have arrogantly assumed the roles of both prosecutor and judge using only internet gossip, but you do not even allow the defense team to speak. Domino, you are adamant in claiming that disciples are abused. You claim to care about disciples (which is fake I am sure) but you refuse to listen to them. You are a crooked judge. Listen to the present disiples if you want to be objective. Why don't you want to listen to their story? If they are saying they are very happy with their guru, they love and admire their guru, who the hell are you to claim that they are abused? And what a pathetic delusion it is to claim that they are controlled and are not worth to be heard about a case that affects their lives. Who are you to consider them lower humans who cannot be trusted to give testimonies about their own lives? I even thought inviting one of the victims to register here and discuss in one of the concerned threads to show Sasun... the only reason I did not do was because those victims seems so fragile that I was concerned of their response of Sasuns allusions about them. Oh, how much you care about people... No, don't invite disgusting liars, just tell them that instead of spreading lies on the internet they need to get a live and basic decency. They know how much Sri Chinmoy cared about their spiritual lives, yet they are paying back with vicious attacks. Edited July 18, 2004 by Sasun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 (have the allegations actually been filed in a court of law?) No Vava, in 4-5 years there have been many false victims making disgusting claims on the internet, but nobody has filed a case in the court. Isn't it strange? "Prophet" Domino has made a prophecy that soon there will be big news about this case and a lawsuit. But he fails to explain why in years this has not happened. He prefers to copy paste gossips with disturbing content so that readers will read and get angry and instead of thinking clearly and objectively they will believe in lies and blame an innocent person. Domino, if you care about those people so much that you are ready to bet anything why don't go with them and organize a lawsuit? You could win a lot of money since you claim that Sri Chinmoy has plundered a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 (edited) Claim: Sri Chinmoy abuses his disciples. Refutation: Talk to disciples and ask them about it, some of them can be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sri_Chinmoy_Inspiration/ . Since this is an internet site you may question their authenticity. In that case ask them, I am sure they will be happy to provide reasonable identification. Claim: Sri Chinmoy is after money and defrauds people of their money. Refutation: Sri Chinmoy gives many concerts and meditations free of charge to the audience of hundreds. At the end of each event he gives out free meals (called prasad). If he was after money he would charge for concerts and meditation sessions which would be quite legitimate, and would not give free food, or would sell it. I have been visiting the New York center for 3-4 years on various occassions. I have been given free food and free concerts, etc. I am yet to be defrauded of my money. I have never been asked for a donation (symoblic or fixed sum). I voluntarily offered a donation, they refused my money. Strange, when am I finally going to be defrauded of my money??? Claim: Sri Chinmoy is trying to show tricks and recruit people. Refutation: Visit the official website at http://www.srichinmoy.org and try to find any attempt of recruiting visitors. Go to any of events, be it concerts, meditation sessions, weightlifting events or anything else, see if you are approached by anyone about getting recruited, or any such hint. I have been visiting for 3-4 years, I am yet to be recruited. Claim: Sri Chinmoys writings are nothing new, he just recycles eastern philocophy. Refutation: You need to read first, here is the library http://www.srichinmoylibrary.com/ . Read a few books and you will see both the old eastern philosophy and new an unique philosophy that is by Sri Chinmoy exclusively. Claim: Sri Chinmoy is not at all helping or teaching anything good to his students. Refutation: Here are some extraordinary facts http://www.ashrita.com , http://www.srichinmoyraces.org/us/ultras/310004/ . This people are great, and their teacher is even greater. Edited July 18, 2004 by Sasun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Sasun, you have crossed the border. I have respected Edwards and Vavas wish to cool down and not discuss about the matter for few days, and I even decided to even not post anything on this thread. It is obvious that your obsessive tendency to protect this criminal is pathological. I will add just a thing. http://www.aaets.org/ Go there post in their site, and ask the estimate of those that report incestuous crimes… then, take the % and project it on 300(you have no problem charging me of liar, I’m not the criminal Chinmoy, so your high standard of “innocent until proven guilty” does not apply., the “300” was about the centre of Chinmoy, where he abuses persons, not those in Antarctica, or where ever else, but I don’t care charge me of other things, like you have done in all of those answers, which I will just ignore). I’m ready to pull my hand of fire, and bet that Chinmoy is guilty of what he is charged… whatever or not he get away with his crimes by having the best lawyers… whom talk on his behalf everytime. Just not so long ago, the idiot did even a publicity in new york time, while it was his lawyer that was talking in his belahf… one of the victims answered that unlike Chinmoy hiding under his multiple lawyers to speak, they won’t need any lawyer and they will talk. Here in Quebec, and Vava, I’ll let you clarify about this, as he’ll call it anti-cultist propaganda, icomming it from me. A man considering himself a Messiah abused many women, for DECADES!!! NON!!! Filled any court cases or anything… FOR DECADES!!! Noses about him being innocent until proven guilty came up… using the same kind of twisting techniques as you. It took one finally having the guts, and it ended up in dominoes. OK! Just a last thing, it is a pretty known tactic from Cults, to show their fake face by giving free meetings etc… and choose whom they think will be the most easily brainwashed. There has been here in Quebec two journalists that entered in the Raelian organisation for a year etc… it was the SAME way that people were seduced. End it up here, I understand your brainwashing and won’t attack you anymore, don’t EVER question my sincerity like you have done it and I’ll ask you to apply on me and others the same standards you ask us to apply to defend this criminal fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 (edited) I have respected Edwards and Vavas wish to cool down and not discuss about the matter for few days, and I even decided to even not post anything on this thread. Not true, you made another disgusting post after Vava's and Edward's plead. I was the one respecting their pleads, not you and Boghos. I will add just a thing. http://www.aaets.org/ Irrelevant. First you must show a real case of trauma. Go there post in their site, and ask the estimate of those that report incestuous crimes… Incestous crimes??? what an absurd claim... completely irrelevant. then, take the % and project it on 300 (you have no problem charging me of liar, It has no relevance at all. I’m not the criminal Chinmoy, You are slandering again. No crime has been proved, you are not the one to prove crimes. so your high standard of “innocent until proven guilty” does not apply It always applies until a crime is proved by the court of law, not by an online person. the “300” was about the centre of Chinmoy That's not what you said before. Here is what you said in this thread. "Are you suggesting that the New York post writer has lied? Must be such an important conspiration, all of those people targetting this poor saint soul, with his insignificant little group of 300 disciples? Yeh! Those accusers have not nothing better to do with their times than targeting such a small organisation... poor him, he should be chanonised by the Vatican." Sorry, but you are just loosing credibility because of your stubbornness, don't blame me for not believing you. I’m ready to pull my hand of fire, and bet that Chinmoy is guilty of what he is charged… whatever or not he get away with his crimes by having the best lawyers… whom talk on his behalf everytime. How convenient. You have already found a "face-saving" answer for you, even if no crime is proven in the court of law you will be still convinced of crime. This is utterly irrational and irresponsible. Just not so long ago, the ... did even a publicity in new york time, while it was his lawyer that was talking in his belahf… one of the victims answered that unlike Chinmoy hiding under his multiple lawyers to speak, they won’t need any lawyer and they will talk. Yes, they will not need any lawyers, because there never will be a lawsuit. Here in Quebec, and Vava, I’ll let you clarify about this, as he’ll call it anti-cultist propaganda, icomming it from me. A man considering himself a Messiah abused many women, for DECADES!!! NON!!! Filled any court cases or anything… FOR DECADES!!! Noses about him being innocent until proven guilty came up… using the same kind of twisting techniques as you. It took one finally having the guts, and it ended up in dominoes. I don't know about that case, and I doubt you are presenting a similar case... OK! Just a last thing, it is a pretty known tactic from Cults, to show their fake face by giving free meetings etc… and choose whom they think will be the most easily brainwashed. There has been here in Quebec two journalists that entered in the Raelian organisation for a year etc… it was the SAME way that people were seduced. Most "cults" are absolutely innocent of any charges. You have read many anti-cult material and made up your mind that they are deceiving people. That is not the case, there are many honest spiritual groups that are called "cults". If you follow that logic no group can be trusted. Suppose there is an honest group, they will not charge anything, and people will like and join it. This only means an honest joining, nothing more, no deceptions. Don't you see the flaw in this logic? It makes theoretically impossible that there are honest spiritual paths. Gurus (true ones) are to help, and when someone sincerely wants to be helped then they accept a new disciple in their group and help. Somebody may call it deception but that is not a deception. A wrongdoing must be proved before it is called deception. End it up here, I understand your brainwashing and won’t attack you anymore, don’t EVER question my sincerity like you have done it and I’ll ask you to apply on me and others the same standards you ask us to apply to defend this criminal fraud. Domino, let me make it clear to you. You may call me personally many names and I will ignore, we have known each other for some time. Try it, call me an idiot, brainwashed, fanatic, whatever (note: this does not apply to everyone particularly Boghos). But you simply have no idea whom you are accusing of such grave charges... absolutely no idea. I would ignore your stubbornness on any other argument, but not in this one. In that light, you have lost this argument as you have failed to bring anything substantial that would support something more than a suspicion. If you want, take a break now and come back later to answer my questions in a balanced and polite manner. I promise not to say anything personal if you promise not to call names against anyone. If you don't then you have lost your case. But if you honestly tell me that you are not sure about your charges then I will call it a quit and forget the whole thing. P.S. I am not brainwashed, I just happen to know much more about Sri Chinmoy in real life circumstances and about spiritual paths than you. Hence my suredness. Edited July 18, 2004 by Sasun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 I am going to close this topic as it is getting out of control. Will open later after the mods determine it is appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 I am opening this topic again. I have to ask you all to discuss the topic and to stop calling each other names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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