THOTH Posted July 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 "creating more than sixteen thousand paintings in one twenty-four-hour period " Thats more then eleven paintings per minute...must be some masterpieces...perhaps they were minatures... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted July 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 http://www.wie.org/j22/ashrita.asp Ok - (self) hypnotism works....this guy is a fanatic...so anyting is possible...Ok - jumping jacks and pogo sticks....really putting those supernatural powers to work....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 (edited) Sasun, I've writen in Word a long text to answer you... have extensivaly read about the man for the last two days(adding to what I already have read)... I then have deleted what I wrote and decided to not post it. I've read reports from ex-disciples. One of the boards dedicated to them... the large majority of their testemonials are negative unlike what you've said... I have read more testemonials etc... I just have nothing more to add here as after what I have read, I'm as sure of the claims against him as I am sure that the genocide happened. I am not joking here. Testemonials comes from different places, different people, some of them provide their entire names... the stories are so similar that the probability for them to be lies is so low that we can call the reality of what is reported to be beyond any reasonable dought. I am sure this man is a fraud, a criminal, an insane dangerous individual and I really advise you to stay away from him and his disciples, I am saying this as a friend. You do not need him to get enlightned believe me. I just don't know what to add, as I am really not interested to answer your post(the reason why I deleted my long answer)... what I can tell you is be prepared to hear in the news ex-disciples bringing the organization to court. I just smell sincerity in its presence... those ex-disciples are telling the truth, and the claimers are just too important in numbers for this to be a conspiration against this organization. Edited July 14, 2004 by Fadix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 Sasun, I've known you for two years now and I know you are a smart person and it should be easy to see the lies.Why even read the accusations just read these lies is enough to expose the man. And to hear his list of achievements and records—from creating more than sixteen thousand paintings in one twenty-four-hour period to writing over thirteen hundred books to lifting over seven thousand poundsPaintings are lies and the seven thousand pounds as well.Stop! Why dwell further.Like Axel said step away for a while and clear your mind and look at it objectivly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 (edited) Sasun, I've known you for two years now and I know you are a smart person and it should be easy to see the lies.Why even read the accusations just read these lies is enough to expose the man. And to hear his list of achievements and records—from creating more than sixteen thousand paintings in one twenty-four-hour period to writing over thirteen hundred books to lifting over seven thousand poundsPaintings are lies and the seven thousand pounds as well.Stop! Why dwell further.Like Axel said step away for a while and clear your mind and look at it objectivly. Armat, let me ask you something. If you saw that he lifts heavy objects would you believe or not? Well I have seen and I believe, I will not fall for some liars. And here are his books online, not all available online but 1179 are available http://www.srichinmoylibrary.com . Overall he has more than 1400. Armat, this website is not a dream or illusion, trust me this is a real website. Check now, check tomorrow and it will be there, count the books if you wish, read them to verify that those are not empty pages. I am not trying to be cynical, it just puzzles me how you can fall for liars but cannot believe what your eyes can see. Well, I can't show the thousands of paintings but I show what I can. If you prefer the lies then go ahead but don't call you a rational man after that. And do you think Ashrita is lieing about what they saw the lifting, or do you think Ashrita is under illusion too? Edited July 15, 2004 by Sasun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Sasun, I've writen in Word a long text to answer you... have extensivaly read about the man for the last two days(adding to what I already have read)... I then have deleted what I wrote and decided to not post it. I've read reports from ex-disciples. One of the boards dedicated to them... the large majority of their testemonials are negative unlike what you've said... I have read more testemonials etc... I just have nothing more to add here as after what I have read, I'm as sure of the claims against him as I am sure that the genocide happened. I am not joking here. Testemonials comes from different places, different people, some of them provide their entire names... the stories are so similar that the probability for them to be lies is so low that we can call the reality of what is reported to be beyond any reasonable dought. I am sure this man is a fraud, a criminal, an insane dangerous individual and I really advise you to stay away from him and his disciples, I am saying this as a friend. You do not need him to get enlightned believe me. I just don't know what to add, as I am really not interested to answer your post(the reason why I deleted my long answer)... what I can tell you is be prepared to hear in the news ex-disciples bringing the organization to court. I just smell sincerity in its presence... those ex-disciples are telling the truth, and the claimers are just too important in numbers for this to be a conspiration against this organization. Domino, you think you have done your research and conclusion well. But you have not, you must read the present disciples as well, and they make the vast majority (that's what I meant). I suggest you to go ahead and read, here is the link if you have not found it already on the internet http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sri_Chinmoy_Inspiration/ , but don't tell me that they are under a magic spell or something like that because it is insane. After my last post I have no more to add either, I have made a very valid argument with strong logic, and you have not answered. You are still making the same claims. Only you are adding that you have seen some people using their real names. First of all, that maynot be their real names, and second of all, one can only be sure with proper identification or recognition by people who you know and trust. The reason I put Ashrita's interview is because his identity (as well as the story) is extremely credible. Or do you think the Guinness record book was also under magic spell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Oh Domino, don't forget that ex-disciples have practiced yoga, yoga gives one will power and certain psychological abilities. They maynot have high IQs (or maybe they may) but they (per training of their guru, ironically) have learned some things as focus on their purpose and things like that... now that they have become crooked whatever they have learned they are using against their teacher. They are not causual forum users like most people, they are there to attack their teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Domino, to make your life easier (if you indeed have the approach of a sincere investigator and will check this message board), check all the threads and posts that have the subject "Question for the women". There are many many testimonies. Of course, you can check all the other posts as well to see the general atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 what I can tell you is be prepared to hear in the news ex-disciples bringing the organization to court. That would be a good day indeed, to finally clear things out... but don't keep your hopes too high Domino, these attackers have been there for a while and nothing happened. This is a more effective way if you want to hurt somebody's image, court will be their doom... I don't want to give any ideas... but imagine someone who has several determined enemies, and this somebody has no political/business/legal clout to fight them. These enemies can set their minds and tell all kinds of lies to hurt the image, make many usernames and tell coordinated lies so they sound truthfull and make the impression that they are many. If their goal was to hurt the image then that will be accomplished easily. They cannot do more, but that's the most damage in certain cases like this. Once the image is hurt even if the person attacked spends resources and identifies them and takes them to court, it will not help. It will take a long time to restore the image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 I split the thread, all criticism goes here. I have been maintaining the "wisdom" thread for about a year, don't think that you should trash it just like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Armat, let me ask you something. If you saw that he lifts heavy objects would you believe or not? Well I have seen and I believe, I will not fall for some liars. Sasun, here is the world record holder according to Guinness Heaviest Men's +105-kg Snatch Lift Iran's Hossein Rezazadeh lifted 212.5 kg (468.5 lb) in the men's +105-kg snatch at the 2000 Sydney Olympics on September 26, 2000. There is a deference of lifting heavy objects and lifting a weight what a car weighs. Average car weighs around 5k lb. The Mustang checked in at 3560 lbs .It is obvious that 7k figure is way beyond any mortal and frankly it is obvious the deliberate exaggeration to make him seem divine and superman like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Sasun, here is the world record holder according to Guinness Heaviest Men's +105-kg Snatch Lift Iran's Hossein Rezazadeh lifted 212.5 kg (468.5 lb) in the men's +105-kg snatch at the 2000 Sydney Olympics on September 26, 2000. There is a deference of lifting heavy objects and lifting a weight what a car weighs. Average car weighs around 5k lb. The Mustang checked in at 3560 lbs .It is obvious that 7k figure is way beyond any mortal and frankly it is obvious the deliberate exaggeration to make him seem divine and superman like. Armat, you didn't read carefully when I answered to Domino. The cars, airplanes, etc. are lifted using a special device. As a result the direct weight is a fraction of the several tons, maybe several hundred pounds, maybe aven around a thousand pounds. It is still a lot. This happens in a dailight where there are many people around, nobody is telling that he lifts thousands of pounds directly above his head. However, ill-wishers will take the opportunity and claim that he said that therefore it is a lie. What I have seen is Sri Chinmoy lifting many weights for hours in an auditorium, using various machines as well as directly. That was in the evening. They said that he had started lifting weight in the morning some other location outside using machines elephants and such things. And I remember very well when he lifted directly dumbells of several hundred pounds on each side, I don't remember exactly how many hundred pounds but it was obvious that this is not an ordinary lift. This year they say he has lifted more than a thousand pounds dumbells, directly. When he lifts he just lifts an inch or so, just to lift. This is not how traditional lifters lift. It is not the accepted way. Now you might ask why he doesn't use accepted ways. Because he is not a weight lifter, he is not trying to break records and get in the Guinness record books (don't confuse with his disciple Ashrita). He is not trying to compete with anyone. People fail to get the message even though he tells it everytime. The point of such lifting is to achieve self-transendence, that is to transcend your own acievements of previous lifts. So you are competing only with yourself. Another thing he does is honor people by lifting them, be it separately or in groups, using a device again. While I can understand honoring people, I cannot understand what is the point of lifting cars, airplanes, sheep, elephants, etc... nevertheless, that is not a fraud. Call it strange, but not a hoax. And that seven-thousand pounds racked, I have seen a photo of the instrument and the weights how they are set up. I will try to find it and show clearly so you can see that there is no deception going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Here are some images that I could find. Take a look and make your own judgement. http://www.wunschverwirklichung.de/Neue_Dateien/1Photos/Gewicht1-1.JPG http://www.rickross.com/graphics/Lift3.jpg http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20021201/world5.jpg http://www.som.org/10global/images/chinmoylifting.jpg http://www.reflex.cz/images/Reflex/12/27/44033.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 One of the photographers admitted having manipulated images by the demand of Chinmoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 I admit manipulating this photo http://www.iucn.org/themes/ssc/images/elephant.jpg I also admit being sexually abused by this person http://www.rtfcam.org/images/nicaragua/man.jpg I got pregnant and this evil, power-maniac forced me to make an abortion. I was so much abused... [thought to myself: I am going to make 5000 posts like this] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 The differences is that the name of this photographer is knwon Sasun and that Chinmoy has never denied him to have been his photographer. Nice try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 The differences is that the name of this photographer is knwon Sasun and that Chinmoy has never denied him to have been his photographer. Nice try. My name is also known and no one has denied what I said. You sound like a Turkish denialist, how dare. I am a victim, have some respect for my rights, I was abused psychologically and sexually, and defrauded of my money. This is an evil person, has too much clandestine powers, he should be put to jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 My name is also known and no one has denied what I said. You sound like a Turkish denialist, how dare. I am a victim, have some respect for my rights, I was abused psychologically and sexually, and defrauded of my money. This is an evil person, has too much clandestine powers, he should be put to jail. I think you are losing your mind Sasun. The phographers name is Alex Zwarenstein and he was Chinmoys official photographer. He is a well known artist and photographer with a reputation... do a google search on his name you'll see what I mean. http://www.google.ca/search?q=+Alex+Zwaren...le+Search&meta= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 I think you are losing your mind Sasun. No Domino, I was being cynical for educational purposes. I mirrored the level of argument that you have been leading so that you can feel yourself what I am facing while I argue with you. The phographers name is Alex Zwarenstein and he was Chinmoys official photographer. He is a well known artist and photographer with a reputation... do a google search on his name you'll see what I mean. http://www.google.ca/search?q=+Alex+Zwaren...le+Search&meta= Oh, you found another real person. Here is what he said "He knew I was an artist," Zwarenstein said. "He called me over to his house and he said, 'You see that I've lifted this but the picture isn't clear enough. Could you make it so that it looks like it's a bit higher?' " http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/24443.htm First of all, the photographer could also lie. But what he said doesn't support that he didn't lift, does it? It says the photo was not clear enough. It is understandable, and inch lift may not be visible in the photo. But it is still a lift. The photographer does not deny that he lifted, does he? And I have read another version of what the photographer said, that Sri Chinmoy asked him to take a photo from a corner so that it is visible. But you are claiming it is a hoax. Second of all, like I said I have seen with my own eyes, I tell you the lifts were short, and nonetheless they were lifts that not everyone can do. It seems to me that you are suspecting me of being a part of a hoax. In that case you should only speak with facts, you won't trust me and I won't trust you. Bring facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Sasun, yes! you lost your mind... what do you know about the many whom the picture you posted? Do you know wherte he goes for vacation, where he lives? The number of rooms there is in his home? Where each rooms are situated? The style of his language? etc... What the hell you know? So yes! obviously you have lost your mind here, your comparaison doesn't make any sense because it could even be applied to free criminals out. You are claiming that those over 10,000 posts could have been made by the same person... if one person has so much talent to make it sound real, he is the greatest genous ever... he could be the best producer in the world... and no you have not read those forums, because if you did you won't say such a nonesense because there isn't anyone on this planet that could be such a genous to play such a role... because he would be as well enough intelligent to know that he could use that tallen to be a millionaire... read them you will precisely understand what I am telling you. As for the photographer, this is an example of how you will twist any ellements... was he not asked to forge a picture. Yes or no? End of the story... as well, saying to someone:"You know as well as me that I did that" etc... is a known psychological manipulation tactic used in shows such as collective allucinations and collective delusions... run a search on google about collective hallucinations... So the photographer could also lie, in fact, EVERYONE beside your guru could lie... and this is a very strong evidences that you are brainwashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 And about money laundering allegations, again I have an experience proving those allegations very questionalbe if not outright false. I have attended to meditation sessions and concerts and events for many occasions, all of them free of charge, and at the end of all of them according to Hindu tradition meal was served to hundreds of people, again free of charge. So at last I was looking for opportunities to make a donation so I am not too much of a burden financially, and also as a form of appreciation. Well, no one ever asked for a donation. So I ask them that I would like to make a donation. They simply said that there are no donations. So now I am supposed to believe that Sri Chinmoy is after money... another thing, Sri Chinmoy sells his books. I think it is fair to receive money for ones books. However, most of those books are also available on the internet to read for free. Another evidence of him not being after money. Now it will be very hard to tell that he defrauded people of money. His disciples pay for their own trips that last for weeks and months and don't have any savings left, so what is the big deal. If they don't complain then whose business it is to meddle. They are leading a spiritual life where money has little importance. This is something ignorant people fail to realize, that a truly spiritual person needs neither money nor sex nor power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 And about money laundering allegations, again I have an experience proving those allegations very questionalbe if not outright false. I have attended to meditation sessions and concerts and events for many occasions, all of them free of charge, and at the end of all of them according to Hindu tradition meal was served to hundreds of people, again free of charge. So at last I was looking for opportunities to make a donation so I am not too much of a burden financially, and also as a form of appreciation. Well, no one ever asked for a donation. So I ask them that I would like to make a donation. They simply said that there are no donations. So now I am supposed to believe that Sri Chinmoy is after money... another thing, Sri Chinmoy sells his books. I think it is fair to receive money for ones books. However, most of those books are also available on the internet to read for free. Another evidence of him not being after money. Now it will be very hard to tell that he defrauded people of money. His disciples pay for their own trips that last for weeks and months and don't have any savings left, so what is the big deal. If they don't complain then whose business it is to meddle. They are leading a spiritual life where money has little importance. This is something ignorant people fail to realize, that a truly spiritual person needs neither money nor sex nor power. Explain me how then, this man that came here in the US with pratically no money in his hands has now FOUR HOMES!!! How he pied for those buildings? The money came from the sky while he was asking some to god, with whom he claim talking with? Of course, the best way to recruit disciples is to show a nice face to the potential disciples by claiming they don't ask for money, but once they are in and rightly brainwashed, the real game begin, like many other sects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Domino, again you are accusing me personally. I didn't misquote, did I? I quoted correctly and provided the source, and offered my explanation. Cool down, anger is not good. You need to meditate. Where is the manipulation? This is your second claim that involves a recognizable and veryfiable person. The first one proved to be a manipulation, as McLoughlin didn't say that his wife was abused. And the second one, again, is not supporting that Sri Chinmoy didn't lift the weight. The statement ("Could you make it so that it looks like it's a bit higher?") could refer to lightning or zooming/enlarging. If it was a fraud, it would be something like "look, I couldn't lift the weight, but I am your guru so could you make it look like that I lifted". Domino, need I go ahead and answer all your points. But you have left too many unanswered questions of mine. I didn't say 1 person has posted 10000 posts. But it is a discussion like any other, there is one claim and hundreds of posts and replies and comments about it. So a few accusers and other neutral people or bystanders could participate in a debate, over time that number of post could be reached. That number doesn't prove anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Domino, again you are accusing me personally. I didn't misquote, did I? I quoted correctly and provided the source, and offered my explanation. Cool down, anger is not good. You need to meditate. Where is the manipulation? This is your second claim that involves a recognizable and veryfiable person. The first one proved to be a manipulation, as McLoughlin didn't say that his wife was abused. And the second one, again, is not supporting that Sri Chinmoy didn't lift the weight. The statement ("Could you make it so that it looks like it's a bit higher?") could refer to lightning or zooming/enlarging. If it was a fraud, it would be something like "look, I couldn't lift the weight, but I am your guru so could you make it look like that I lifted". Domino, need I go ahead and answer all your points. But you have left too many unanswered questions of mine. I didn't say 1 person has posted 10000 posts. But it is a discussion like any other, there is one claim and hundreds of posts and replies and comments about it. So a few accusers and other neutral people or bystanders could participate in a debate, over time that number of post could be reached. That number doesn't prove anything. McLaughlin did say something like that, the author of the work whom reported it said it was said to him by McLaughlin himself... you accused that man to be a liar and now you expect that I take you seriously when you try to defend Chinmoy? And why am I attacking you? On the other hand, you just did what you accuses me of doing, you were the one starting to accuse me and characterise me and even generalising me and my intire participation in hyeforum. Where have I done anything similar with you, I just aim calling you brainwashed, because here obviously you are brainwashed. And more, do you actually believe that the guru will admit to one of his followers that he can't lift the weight and ask him to manipulate a picture? He'll just say:"like you know/see, I have lifted it, but it does not appear so, could you do something about it" etc... this is a psychological manipulation, the kind that psychopaths uses to manipulate their victims. As for the 10,000, before claiming such a thing, go read the posts... go ahead go read them Sasun, you'll see that what you are saying here doesn't stend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Explain me how then, this man that came here in the US with pratically no money in his hands has now FOUR HOMES!!! How he pied for those buildings? The money came from the sky while he was asking some to god, with whom he claim talking with? I am aware of one home only. I never heard that he has 4 homes. This sounds like gossip. How does he support himself? He sells his books, art and music CDs. I don't know how else, maybe some other ways. A man who spends all of his time on writing poetry, writing music, painting, meditating, praying, singing, playing music, does not have time to spend money. There are always disciples around. As for trips, they go to Christmas trips with many disciples to exotic places and do the same things there, meditation, running, singing, etc... spiritual activities. Of course, the best way to recruit disciples is to show a nice face to the potential disciples by claiming they don't ask for money, but once they are in and rightly brainwashed, the real game begin, like many other sects. Well, if that was the case that they are trying to recruit disciples, then after going many times to their functions I would be asked to join. And don't think that anyone will be accepted as disciple, not everyone that applies becomes a disciple. This proves that he is after recruiting either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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