Do We Need To Mary Them Or Not?

[ALMA]

Indeed dear Alma!!! I married an Armenian for the same reasons that you have mentioned here. I hope and wish that every Armenian in here and everywhere feels the same way you do!!! It is commendable that you feel this way!

 

By the way, we aren't even as much as 10 million. We are as little as 7.5-8 million. More reason for us to intermarry for survival, wouldn't you say?

 

 

I have grown up out of Armenia and have never had Armenian friends ever since I left Armenia. My parents have always inserted inside me everything that is part of being an Armenian. However, it was never enough, I had my way of thinking, I used to think that you marry the one you love not someone because of the nationality.

As I grew older I became more conscious, thanks to my fiance I understood that for me there would always have been cultural barriers had I not chosen an Armenian. As Armenians we have a lot to be proud of. I think in the feature it will be lovely to hear my children speaking Armenian, feeling the privilege of being Armenian.

Definitely Anahid jan, unlike the Kurds, Assyrians, Gypsies, Yezidies, etc we have a fatherland and in order to survive as you said we have to chose Armenians. End of the day, I honestly don’t think that any other men can be as good as Armenian men.

[gdavidyan]

You know what's interesting, while I was in Armenia, I thought, "Wow, this country is so corrupt, (not that it's not in the U.S., but you don't see it as much) people at the stores are rude to you,..." But when I come back here, looking at pictures of Armenia, not my pictures, pictures in general, or just hearing Armenia, Zvarnots, it has this "dzktum" pull in me to just want to go back. It felt like it was my real home, and the "kaxcrutyun" at gatherings with Armenians in Armenia is very nice. Growing up in a predominantly non-diverse place, and experiencing the real Armenianess, you realize how unconceded us Armenians are. We really are very hospitable, and open our doors to our guests in a very welcoming way. However, it is westernizing even in Armenia now, which is sad to see everyone changing. They are saying it's "Zargucyun."

 

I know many people probably think of me as not a real Armenian because of some decisions I have made, but I will always consider myself Armenian, listen to Armenian music, and act like the genuine Hye tgha.

 

When I say, "I don't care what my family thinks." I'm not that American rebel kid some people may imagine, in all honesty, I do care what they think, but I won't change my decision, because I know later on they will have to accept it, and should I change my decision I will be regretting for the rest of my life, and she will be hurting.

 

Please, don't think I'm a non-Armenian, Armenian. I read and write in Armenian, taught myself how to do it by the way, because I like being Armenian and I'm proud of being Armenian. Someone asked me if I ever had a girlfriend, and the answer to that was no, because there were no Armenians, and I would refuse to have such a relationship with a non-Armenian girl. I knew I was going to go to marry an Armenian, but not this early and who it became. It just sort of happened like this, and I'm not the out of my mind in love guy who can't even think. I've sat down and carefully plotted everything out, my education, finances, living and how I'm going to do everything. I will be going to school, we will have our own apartment, both of us will have health insurance and I have a car. It's not going to be easy, and I'm willing to give up my "jayelutyun" life for something so valuable for me.

 

Anonymouse, it seems like you are assuming I am some retard and say comments trying to indirectly offend me. I know if you personally knew me you would probably understand my situation and not make fun of me. The close friends I have told understand and are helping however they can. I have two jobs, and at one of my jobs, it's a job that 48 people report to me, all of them look up to me and really like me. I am a very good humourous guy, invited to different stand-up and imitation shows around here, doing very good imitations of Bush, Clinton, Schwarzenegger, Borat and more.

 

I am not some redneck "innbreeding" idiot like some people may assume. I am just as mindful and thoughtful as all of you.

[Kouklitsa]

I do agree to an extent. I am a non-Armenian [Pontic Greek] dating an Armenian guy. It's kinda hard to say because culturally we are still very similar but I do feel isolated when he speaks Armenian and he feels awkward when I am speaking Greek. We just started to teach each other each other's language because if we have children together, they WILL speak both Greek & Armenian (and English). We have this working in our favor: we're both Christians and both can reminisce about genocide and deportation. He had been dating American girls much to his mother's dismay. Then she goes crazy with happiness that he's dating me because I am definitely more 'culturally acceptable.' But I still feel...different? There is a lot that is the same and a lot that is different. I guess we have it easier than most? I love this guy to death! Armenian men definitely treat their women different than Greek men do.

 

I don't think it's wrong to date outside your ethnicity (NOT 'race' because there are technically only 3 races) but it can get complicated. Love will find the way if it's true. You can't change the world or your family but you can choose to live happily for yourselves. If the two people truly love each other they can raise a child with a sense of identity in BOTH cultures. The hard part is convincing others who are not so open to the idea.

 

 

 

Some people here have assumed that there are even other hyes in one's area TO marry!!

And this even refuses to acknowledge schisms of religion, politics, class and gender and plain old attraction ( ARA! a mouthful to type !)

 

And also, to the purist types who believe that any and all " mixed Armenians" are no longer hye ( as if that individual EVER had any choice as to who their parentage was ) ??!! You have some VERY good points, however that I agree with in this context.

 

HOWEVER_

 

assuming we accept your premise; What do you make of people from mixed background ..say somebody that's 1/2 or a quarter... who are fighting to keep their identity when they are not surrounded by a community?

 

 

Some of the previous can be used to make arguements *against* intermarriage. But what to do with the children of these marriages who are conscious and decide that they *will not* be a party to the final stages, even if they remain marginalized by armenian communities?

How can you then shoulder the burden entirely on these people when much of it is on account of factos beyond their choice like history, geography and class? And then consign them to oblivion when it comes to marriage issues? Isn't this a case of " blaming the victims"?

Should they just give up, and say " you purist ethnonationalist types are right.. otar I am than" or should they fight for their place in the community? This includes the right to acceptance in marriage to a " full blood" armenian, which can only be made possible with further dialogues on the meaning of identity in a DEEP sense. Every conscious hye has to admit that it is *very* important as the last stages of genocide are going through (assimilation and denial).

 

What do you ethnonationalist purists make of these mixed Armenians who try hard, with no language schools or little to no community around, who want to marry another Armenian? Do you think they should tell the " full blood" at a barahantes or party or whatever mode of singles meeting that " Well, I might LOOK a lil Hye and ACT a lil Hye an speak a lil Hayeren , but REALLY .. I'm an odar!" Doesn't this seem a wee bit , well.. weird? ( Damn, I feel like I'm talking reservation politics here with all this " full blood"/half-blood talk ;-)

Why should the mixed-bloods throw in the towel and NOT fight ?? Why should the mixed ones who are trying to maintain thier identity against odds, and who ALSO grew up with the horror stories of the genocide , and the guilt of feeling complicit with jermag chert and the burden of assimilation... Why should they , if they are CONSCIOUS... essentially say

" Well... the Turks won with my family. We are sufficiently ODAR-IFIED. We now surrender ;-) "

Denial is one of the final states of genocide. And I , a mixed blood ARMENIAN .. REFUSE to be party to denial. I *do* wish to marry an Armenian man, mostly because of social programming and trust ( my emotional trust is mostly with Armenian men on account of my raising ). However, this assumes that I am *accepted* by in-laws and the like, and the community. And honey, one thing is right here in this forum where people have included money as a factor, not only do you have to be accepted, but you have to come from money and act like a material girl/dress like a material girl just to get these hye boys glances. And , to be " amergihye" in phrasing " Ara.. some of us are just BROKE and trying to get by, much less act the princess" . And some of us are simply politically and socially opposed to materialism and capitalism and how they play out in the politics of love.

h

TO be blunt, he77 NO I refuse to call myself en total an " odar" and prove the #$% murderers right. Even my not-so conscious mixed cousins refuse. And I refuse also on account of the fact that I *am* the last of my family who forms a line and was raised by a generation who spoke Armenian, had a community and knows the history.

 

On the note of marriage, all I got to say is " vorteg e Monte Melkonian??????????/" Now THAT's an Armenian man I would give my personal library for ;-)

 

[TheArmenianPirate]

Well well well . . .

 

What an amazing re-occuring topic this seems to be in the face of obvious historic facts and outcomes. It just seem that some Armenians are just itching to follow this path to ethnic and cultural suicide. The plain and simple answer is to this question is "NO". In a context of cultural/ethnic self-preservation, "marrying an odar" is not conducive to preserving anything, get this fact through your thick ignorrant skulls. If culture and ethnicity could have been preserved through intermarriage, our grandmothers would have chosen to simply save their own skin and marry into Turkish families instead of hanging themselves from bridges or dying of starvation. Fast forwarding 100 years and replacing said Turk with any other otar is no different, just becuause you do not have a scimitar or 500 mile desert march ahead of you, does not mean the outcome of intermarriage will somehow magically change. You marry an otar, the inevitability of your ethnic/cultural obliteration will soon come, plain and simple. No culture/ethnic group has survived in the history of mankind by inter-marrying into another culture, they are all extinct and cease to exist. Those that think that this is possible are stupid and simply want an excuse to act without consequences from their ethnic community.

 

Mind you, the idea of "well I'm just dating one" is also no excuse to whore yourselves out like $10 jobs from Bankok in dark hidden little places. Whether it's "fair or unfair", society, even in the so called "progressive" western societies appreciates a reasonably "makoor" woman. Even today, a guy in any culture can go bang 300 women and not a thing will be said, but women, whether they like it or not, need to realize that after a few sessions of nasty, no man, Armenian or otherwise will want to make them the mother of their children. During my travels in the US I was disgusted by some of the stories I was told about how some of our women, about which Paruyr Sevak wrote "not even the moonlight had touched", were readily giving handjobs, blowjobs, and receiving anal sex in all sorts of dirty ways by odar men to only "when the time came", present themselves as the good little "hye axchik" to some poor Joe Hye. Is it a wonder that some Hye guys will not approach you? Why is this such a shock? What Hye man can honestly say to himself "I don't mind marrying an otar's leftovers"? Except maybe some of the liberal vaginas I have seen on these forums, proud HYE men would never want to be with women of this sort for reasons that go far beyond simple personal diginity but rather delve into the realm of feeling culturally violated. If anything I would think that some of you women would at the very least think of the women of the past in our culture and how they made such great sacrifices in dire straits and maintained their pride/dignity before running off with an odar behind closed doors or openly pissing on everything your forebearers died for. If acting like a "closet whore" is what a Hye axchik's aspirations are these days until she is ready to have an Armenian family of her own (assuming she does not run off with an otar before that), then I wheep for the future, and I also wheep for the past and the women that died for nothing.

 

To claim that "Amerkaztis don't mind their women having multitudes of partners why should Armenians?" is just about the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. We have our own ways and our own beliefs, thousands of years before many western societies were civilized, and now all of a sudden I, as an Armenian man am supposed to change my ways and emulate degenerate "Amerkatzis" regarding the most important aspects of my culture/ethnicity and way of life? Or worse yet, take the advise of an odar on how individuals of my culture should be "more accepting" of inter-marriage? Never.

 

I say on these forums to any Hye dexamart that has any sort of dignity onto himself to NEVER tolerate the "progressive" changes that are indirectly being imposed on our culture. Any Hye woman that opts to marry an odar has made her bed and needs to sleep in it. There are women of course that will never do this, these are our wonderful Hye axchiks which we bled for 15 years ago; but there are also those that are perhaps sitting on the fence regarding the matter, and by having a weak stance on this, the men in our culture are ALLOWING FOREIGN CULTURES to infiltrate and destroy what our fathers and grandfathers DIED to preserve for thousands of years. The whores in our culture need to be made an example of, tollerating such behavior will destroy us in the near future, make no mistake about this ladies and gentlemen. To me as an Armenian man, any woman that has given herself in whole or in part to an otar is better off just continuing down that path and not looking back instead of trying to "re-establish" her ties with our culture or communities by all of a sudden becoming the ideal Hye through enrolling her children in Armenian scouts/schools/etc. These women should have been such an ethnocentric Hye women when they were making the decision of being with and subsequently marrying an odar, NOT after the fact due to regret.

 

On the flip side, some Armenian men nimrods that choose to head off the beaten path and start acting like "Spitaks", "Sevs", or some other otar derviative, get your God damn acts together. Start acting like Hye MEN, you don't need to behave any other way, ONLY when you behave like what you ARE do you give yourself some worth and value. Any woman that says "well Hye guys don't like this or that but OTARS are cool with it, why can't Hye guys be like this", well then, we can't because we are HYE men this is OUR CULTURE, if you don't like it then by all means, go bang an otar and DON'T COME BACK. Hye men are only interested in Hye women that are into their own culture, not women that pant like dogs for otars that will bang you on Monday and trade you for a six pack on Friday.

 

A culture/ethnic group is only as strong and vibrant as the men that defend it. When you're too busy acting like a hispanic gangster or some sev who spent the last 150 years being oppressed when instead you should be acting like a man from a culture that is 3000 years strong, that's when our culture gets over run by those that think it is somehow an "upgrade" to marry into another culture/ethnic group. Have any of you fairies EVER seen a sev guy try and act like he was anything but sev? Ever see a white guy try and act Hye? Of course not, stop acting like SECOND RATE otars and start acting like FIRST RATE Hye MEN. I realize that not all Hyes act this way, but it has become increasing more acceptable to toss Haykakan self worth and values for some other cultural way of life, this is the FIRST STEP in letting our women get whored out and have our culture be destroyed from the inside out. YOU, the ARMENIAN MAN, sets the tone, boundries, and values of our culture, "sahmanere menk piti kashenk, che vor himar otarner, kam toxnenk mer azgi yev joxovurti porniknere yev pechaztaztnere menaztortin borboken irantz varkerov". DO not be tollerant of transgressions against our culture, DO NOT be tolerant of Hyes that think our culture can be stuffed in a bottle and preserved through inter-marriage and undercover slutty "dating" bahavior.

 

Mer axchiknere, meren en, che vor otarneri karavati xaxaleekneri. Mer mayere pechachatz chen ele vor mer himakva kinere, kuyriknere, yev axchiknere pechaztats darnan. Mek hat hye axchick chi piti iran da otari heto vor 5 kam 6 hoku takoon takoon devav heto hishi vor hye dexi het bidi elni yev ga mek hat hye dexi sooterov geravi. NEVER be tollerant of this kind of behavior, it's your DUTY as Hye men to shun and cast out those that behave this way and piss on everything that was once our proud Armenian culture. Those that want to waltz around with otars on their arms parading them in our communities better be prepared to be confronted and reminded of how low they are and the disgrace they have brought to the memory of the mothers and fathers that died 100 years ago and to the men and women that bled 15 years ago JUST SO that the diaspora can say "menk yerkir unenk" yev "karabaghe azata".

 

 

Being Armenian is not some God damn title, "spirit", or "state of mind". We are a distinct ethic people with a distinct culture and lineage. Some of today's idiotic "intellectual" community, who's sole contribution to Astzakh was writing fancy books, has become so hedonistic that they preach to the youth that by marrying an odar and making said odar learn "Armenian" and how to eat Armenian food will insure the surivival of our people. What a BRILLIANT idea! I wonder why our grandmothers didn't think of this when they were being sodomized, raped, and butchered; all they had to do is say "I do" and cook up a pot of dolma for their Turkish husbands and teach them how to eat and speak like an Armenian, TADAA, problem solved. Some of you people need to get your heads out of your a$$es. All we are as a people is NOT merely hinged on the "Eibuben". We have a our bloodline, heritage, our way of life, and all the other things that COLLECTIVELY encompass an Armenian.

 

Only when an Armenian man and woman have children, is an Armenian child born. To what extent that child embraces his/her own culture, language, and way of life is thereafter the responsibility of the parents. The converse however is NEVER true, that is, when an Armenian and an otar have children, an Armenian child is not born, just like when a Japanese and otar intermarry their child cannot be considered Japanese; instead a child which is a composite of two different lineages and cultures is created and this, extrapolated over two, three, or perhaps four generations leads to the complete disappearance of the original parental cultures, HISTORY has proven this over and over again. It is neither realistic nor morally correct to expect a child to live TWO CULTURAL lives or to act like two different distinct ethnic individuals without ever blending the two. A child's ethnic identity and culture should be singular and ethnic/cultural preservation has the best chance of survival through parents that are of the SAME ethnic group.

 

It's not surprising to see that those Armenians that inter-marry and realize they have screwed up turn into the most fascist ideologists of them all, by force feeding Hye culture down the kid's throat and completely suppressing the other half. That's why you get some half-wit Hye's that themselves want to inter-marry citing "look, that kid was from a mixed marriage and he is MORE into his culture than your average Hye", this is exactly true, a mixed marriage child has a fanatic Hye parent that has shoveled everything Hye down the kid's throat because deep down they know they screwed up by marrying or being with an otar, so they try and overcompensate and reverse things by enrolling their kid into everything Armenian in a vain attempt to "fix things" or "minimize damage". When confronted about this behavior, these parents have the audacity to reply with "I want my culture/heritage to stay healthy". Well GUESS WHAT dip$hit? If you wanted that you should have been with an Armenian in the first place!

 

Those of us Armenians that have not strayed do not need such doltz rationalizing their own gross mistakes by calling us "racist" merely on the basis that we do not appreciate their actions of heading off with an odar "in the name of love" or some other ridiculous excuse for their callous behavior. I read some posts here and it amazes me how every time any individual says "it's wrong to marry an otar" they are given one of several of the same hollow meaningless replies like A) "You're racist, b} "You need to expand your horizons and think more 'progressively' ", or C) "I will teach my kids all there is to know abot Hyes and our language, that will make things okay". No it won't make things "Okay" a$$wipe, your kid is on his/her way to becoming a mutt pop-culture reject pregnant at 14 or drugged out by 17, in essence he/she is on their way to becoming "American", not to be confused with American Indians, which were slaughtered much in the same way Armenians are being slaughtered through silly ideas of inter-marriage.

 

These replies come from three groups of individuals A) Hyes that are currently "dating" and otar (read: messing around in secret behind their family's back or in places where their community won't notice) b} Hyes that have married an otar and are trying to defend or legitimize their position, which makes one wonder if they themselves felt what they had done was so RIGHT, WHY would they need to defent their actions? C) Children of mixed marriages that are confused or can't seem to fit in either culture properly.

 

I think ENOUGH is ENOUGH, there are those that will NOT allow imbeciles in our culture to destroy everything we have fought to preserve and protect. Too much bloodshed has occured, too many folks still suffer today in Armenia and Karabagh to hold onto their identity and to work towards having our culture prosper, and I for one have seen too many good people sacrifice their lives to merely tollerate the jacka$$es on these community boards to speak about notion of preserving our culture through inter-marriage as if the deaths of all Hyes that came before them mean nothing and the ideas we sacrificed ourselves for, bled for, and died for mean nothing.

 

Behave yourselves and get your acts together, an entire generation is being lost to these himar false ideas of being able to maintaining our identity through inter-marriage while you contemplate the obvious. The Armenian Telethon is coming up ladies and gents, so get your wallets out and donate a bit to the homeland you so often use as a punchline in conversation to sound sophisticated, don't worry the "Mafia" won't take it all, some of it does reach the poor and needy in Karabagh and all of that does reach us, does indeed get put to good use to improve YOUR Armenia. I'm sure $100 or perhaps two won't break the pigibank on any of your parents or yourselves for that matter, you can do one weekend without your "clubbin" and booze as you attempt to act in every way but Hye.

 

-The Armenian Pirate

 

RIP: Lena Sahakyan, the brave one.

 

Note: Two threads are not neccessary for the same topic.

Edited November 13, 2007 by Yervant1

[ExtraHye]

He's back!!!!

[Sip]

Oh yah let's never tolerate change. I am going back to worshiping fire and riding donkeys.

[DominO123]

riding donkeys.

 

 

[Sip]

There's a difference between a donkey and an Ass ... j/k j/k bud! You know you're my hero.

[Arpa]

There's a difference between a donkey and an Ass ... j/k j/k bud! You know you're my hero.

You mean a donkey/esh/էշ is a burro and an ass is a burrito/eshouk/իշուկ?

Edited November 13, 2007 by Arpa

[Hreshtak]

Hey every one!

what you guys think about "we armenians should marry an armenian"?

Today i met a women she was very upset about her son's girlfriend it's just because she is russian.Is it right or wrong?...

 

I think this is a very difficult question. I would like to marry an armenian, because i think we could understand eachother better, we have the same culture, language, traditions etc. Besides, i want to teach my children the armenian language, culture etc. If i marry an non-armenian the chance would be small to do all that. So I prefere an armenian.. but who knows. They say love has one language.

 

[TheArmenianPirate]

I think this is a very difficult question. I would like to marry an armenian, because i think we could understand eachother better, we have the same culture, language, traditions etc. Besides, i want to teach my children the armenian language, culture etc. If i marry an non-armenian the chance would be small to do all that. So I prefere an armenian.. but who knows. They say love has one language.

 

I don't agree at all with "love has one language", whoever said it, was an idiot. Everything boils down to an individual CHOICE. Any Armenian that dates an odar, CHOOSES to do so simply because they see an odar as the equivalent of a Hye. Indeed, it is this very philosophy that opens the avenues to silly ideas of "I fell in love with an odar, I couldn't help it". IF one sees a value and worth in their own culture that is above and beyond that which exists outside their ethnicity, then it becomes categorically impossible to see an odar as potentially someone you could "fall in love with". I personally have travelled enough to see every creed and culture there is. To me, there are certain unique ideas and values in Hye culture that exist nowhere else on Earth which have developed over thousands of years, there is no denying this. Therefore, I see Hye women as something unique with value above all other women. Granted ladies and gents, this not just any slut off the street that says "HI I AM ARMENIAN". By "Hye women" I'm talking about a woman that reciprocates her VALUES for my culture and sees it as something UNIQUE that she CANNOT maintain or attain ANYWHERE ELSE with ANY ODAR MAN. These ideas of secretly or publicly INTER-DATING and INTER-MARRIAGE contribute to the destruction of our culture, if integration was the means to surivival, there would never have been an Armenian Genocide, complacency and mixing could have saved the millions that perished; but we know this to not be true yet in the face of blatant truth there are those among us that proclaim "I will teach my mate Hyeren and our culture, and he/she will be Hye". Wake up folks, stop lying to yourselves.

 

As I said, some women go around dating odars and banging around then when time comes for "settling down", they introduce themselves as a "Hye axchik" that wants to be with a Hye guy, which is LAUGHABLE to any Armenian man that has some self-dignity for his past and present culture. These individuals are better off staying away from our communities and never coming back, we AS ARMENIAN MEN, do not want the concubines of odars after odars are done with them in bed. Understand? If you're with an odar, STAY with an odar, and don't try and re-intergrate yourself into our communities as if you have done NOTHING WRONG. Spitting on the sacrifices of our ancestors, our current struggles, and those that continue to keep our culture healthy through Armenian families will NEVER be acceptable to me or any Hye MAN that has any sense of self-respect.

 

As far as "riding donkeys and worshipping fire" goes according to Sipan, I say, you're the IMBECILE you've proven yourself to be over and over again on these boards. To say that wanting to maintain one's identity/ethnicity is somehow a primitive mannerism just proves that there are idiotic Armenians like you out there that have an INFERIORITY COMPLEX toward their own culture. You're the WORST OF US, because not only do you believe that ethnic pride and desire to maintain identity is primitive, but you also make efforts in leading impressionable youth away from the idea of being PROUD HYES that form Hye families. In the grand scheme of things, at best, you're pathetic, to consider you a Hye dexamart, the idea of "dexamart" would have to be loosened to unparalleled levels. ANY MAN that sees nothing wrong with the women of his culture/ethnicity being the bed buddies of odar men is NOT A MAN AT ALL, but rather, an animal at best; though even animals set some standard in their instinctive behavior.

 

As for your fellow FASCIST moderators, well they do nothing more than attempt to persecute and ridicule those on these boards that talk about millennia long Armenian values and way of life in an effort to justify their own lowlife actions. Like I said, it's always the same people on these boards that talk out of their a$$ about dating odars and marrying them and persecute those that speak against it because they themselves ARE DOING IT, HAVE DONE IT, OR are the procreative result of parents that have gone off with an ODAR. I don't blame the half-breeds on these boards, they see talks of parental homogeneity as threatening and react, but you should not be angry at Armenians that do not accept inter-marriage/dating and want to maintain their ethnic/cultural identity. INSTEAD, go home, and be angry at your parents that made the irresponsible and selfish decision of such an act in their youth without thinking of the impact it would have on their children and their cultural/ethnic future.

 

-The Armenian Pirate

[Anoushik]

We neither persecute nor ridicule those who talk about Armenian values. However, we do believe in human values and respecting one another, and you, sir, need to express your opinions in a more dignified and respectful manner.

[DominO123]

Therefore, I see Hye women as something unique with value above all other women.

 

<_<

 

[Hreshtak]

I don't agree at all with "love has one language", whoever said it, was an idiot. Everything boils down to an individual CHOICE. Any Armenian that dates an odar, CHOOSES to do so simply because they see an odar as the equivalent of a Hye. Indeed, it is this very philosophy that opens the avenues to silly ideas of "I fell in love with an odar, I couldn't help it". IF one sees a value and worth in their own culture that is above and beyond that which exists outside their ethnicity, then it becomes categorically impossible to see an odar as potentially someone you could "fall in love with". I personally have travelled enough to see every creed and culture there is. To me, there are certain unique ideas and values in Hye culture that exist nowhere else on Earth which have developed over thousands of years, there is no denying this. Therefore, I see Hye women as something unique with value above all other women. Granted ladies and gents, this not just any slut off the street that says "HI I AM ARMENIAN". By "Hye women" I'm talking about a woman that reciprocates her VALUES for my culture and sees it as something UNIQUE that she CANNOT maintain or attain ANYWHERE ELSE with ANY ODAR MAN. These ideas of secretly or publicly INTER-DATING and INTER-MARRIAGE contribute to the destruction of our culture, if integration was the means to surivival, there would never have been an Armenian Genocide, complacency and mixing could have saved the millions that perished; but we know this to not be true yet in the face of blatant truth there are those among us that proclaim "I will teach my mate Hyeren and our culture, and he/she will be Hye". Wake up folks, stop lying to yourselves.

 

As I said, some women go around dating odars and banging around then when time comes for "settling down", they introduce themselves as a "Hye axchik" that wants to be with a Hye guy, which is LAUGHABLE to any Armenian man that has some self-dignity for his past and present culture. These individuals are better off staying away from our communities and never coming back, we AS ARMENIAN MEN, do not want the concubines of odars after odars are done with them in bed. Understand? If you're with an odar, STAY with an odar, and don't try and re-intergrate yourself into our communities as if you have done NOTHING WRONG. Spitting on the sacrifices of our ancestors, our current struggles, and those that continue to keep our culture healthy through Armenian families will NEVER be acceptable to me or any Hye MAN that has any sense of self-respect.

 

As far as "riding donkeys and worshipping fire" goes according to Sipan, I say, you're the IMBECILE you've proven yourself to be over and over again on these boards. To say that wanting to maintain one's identity/ethnicity is somehow a primitive mannerism just proves that there are idiotic Armenians like you out there that have an INFERIORITY COMPLEX toward their own culture. You're the WORST OF US, because not only do you believe that ethnic pride and desire to maintain identity is primitive, but you also make efforts in leading impressionable youth away from the idea of being PROUD HYES that form Hye families. In the grand scheme of things, at best, you're pathetic, to consider you a Hye dexamart, the idea of "dexamart" would have to be loosened to unparalleled levels. ANY MAN that sees nothing wrong with the women of his culture/ethnicity being the bed buddies of odar men is NOT A MAN AT ALL, but rather, an animal at best; though even animals set some standard in their instinctive behavior.

As for your fellow FASCIST moderators, well they do nothing more than attempt to persecute and ridicule those on these boards that talk about millennia long Armenian values and way of life in an effort to justify their own lowlife actions. Like I said, it's always the same people on these boards that talk out of their a$$ about dating odars and marrying them and persecute those that speak against it because they themselves ARE DOING IT, HAVE DONE IT, OR are the procreative result of parents that have gone off with an ODAR. I don't blame the half-breeds on these boards, they see talks of parental homogeneity as threatening and react, but you should not be angry at Armenians that do not accept inter-marriage/dating and want to maintain their ethnic/cultural identity. INSTEAD, go home, and be angry at your parents that made the irresponsible and selfish decision of such an act in their youth without thinking of the impact it would have on their children and their cultural/ethnic future.

 

-The Armenian Pirate

hima chhaskaca es indz es asum imbecile esim inchner?! te @ntanur eir asum?

[flyhye]

"Hey every one!

what you guys think about "we armenians should marry an armenian"?"

 

If you want children and want them to know Armenia and Armenians, and be able to speak and write in Armenian?

Yes, you should marry and Armenian.

 

It is your choice.

 

 

 

[Balaclava]

"Hey every one!

what you guys think about "we armenians should marry an armenian"?"

 

If you want children and want them to know Armenia and Armenians, and be able to speak and write in Armenian?

Yes, you should marry and Armenian.

 

It is your choice.

 

Just marry to a girl from your village. Don't think that you're in Armenia--full of Armenian--while you are in USA--full of USAians.

[gamavor]

I think our desire to marry somebody from our own kind, could subconsciously had been attributed to our higher civilization. There is an immanent aspect of it, which teach us not to impose our worldviews and morals on others. It is easier to find common grounds and language with someone who is "trained" so to speak, in our "team".

 

Of course there are exceptions, but in general who wants to reshape, reform or change someone only to achieve his or her's egoistic goals? That is not nice. Therefore, Armenians should TRY first to marry Armenians.

 

 

[Balaclava]

I think our desire to marry somebody from our own kind, could subconsciously had been attributed to our higher civilization. There is an immanent aspect of it, which teach us not to impose our worldviews and morals on others. It is easier to find common grounds and language with someone who is "trained" so to speak, in our "team".

 

Of course there are exceptions, but in general who wants to reshape, reform or change someone only to achieve his or her's egoistic goals? That is not nice. Therefore, Armenians should TRY first to marry Armenians.

 

 

thumbs up!

 

[TheArmenianPirate]

We neither persecute nor ridicule those who talk about Armenian values. However, we do believe in human values and respecting one another, and you, sir, need to express your opinions in a more dignified and respectful manner.

 

 

First, let me point to the quote below by one of your lovely “moderators”. To me and to many rationale individuals, your moderator’s comment would qualify as “sarcastic ridicule” in his usually pathetic effort to marginalize other forum members’ factual statements regarding the cultural issues that face us as Armenians today in a VAIN, or rather, a SNIVELING attempt at creating justifications for his own lack of cultural conviction.

 

 

Oh yah let's never tolerate change. I am going back to worshiping fire and riding donkeys. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

 

 

So please little lady, SAVE your innuendos and banter regarding “respect” and “being dignified” for the FASCIST ANIMALS you have dubbed as “moderators” that lurk on these boards ready to pounce on the backs of any proud Hye that speaks the truth about what’s going on in his/her culture. Have your fellow lackeys practice a little bit of what you preach, then try and add some intelligent commentary about the serious as well as immanent danger that faces our ethnicity and culture today. If you cannot do either of these things, I just suggest you shut your mouth and listen, you and those like you may just learn something about how to have pride in yourselves as Hyes.

 

If you still want to act like a monkey on someone’s back, go do some “moderating” in “Ara Baliozian’s Corner”, which contains 80+ pages of contradictory and delusional gibberish with no solidifying idea, belief, or mindset worth a damn to any Armenian’s cause, plight, or struggle. Just an old senile bastard talking out of his rear end about the idealogy of being an ideal human being while our youth and my generation is slowing being tricked into destroying ourselves as Hyes with ridiculous questions of “is inter-marrying bad?”

 

Furthermore, what I “expressed”, are not merely “opinions”, they are facts. FACT, in no time in history has inter-marriage been conducive to the health and preservation of any culture, or ethnic group. Understand this ladies and gents, Armenians WON’T be an exception to this rule. You go down the path of marrying odars or “dating them” (read: hye axchiks thinking they are slick and takoon takoon gnan karavati xaxaleek darnan sevi, parsiki, yev spanatzihi hamar, heto asmoosnutyan jamanack “hyaser” darnan).

 

Also, if you’re contemplating on using the “Jew paradox”, forget it, it’s a fallacy at best as well as an excuse for Hyes to try and convince their communities that their ODAR DATING HABITS have validity. To Jews, being “Jewish” is a matter of theology as well as “ethnicity”, when it suits them they become a “religious group” and when it does not they are suddenly an “ethnic group”. However, the truth of the matter is, if Jews COULD go back to the days of yore when they were Egypt’s slaves and undo what centuries of inter-marriage has done to them, they WOULD LOVE to reclaim their ethnicity as a people which they have long since lost. Those IDIOTIC Armenians that don’t see this and cannot recognize the difference between being an ethnic group and a religious group deserve to be destroyed in the oblivion of assimilation. Those that don’t care, well good riddance to them too, just DON’T COME BACK into our communities with your now odar spouse IN HAND and expect us to “accept you back”. I would have more respect for these Odar dating/marrying Hyes if they just went off and had the courage to follow through on their decision of becoming ztolvatz instead of running crying back because “they miss their culture”; frankly if it’s THAT important to you, then make the rationale and right decision by pursuing Hye lovers/spouses.

 

Ladies and gents, we are NOT a religion, we are an ETHNIC GROUP and CULTURE which you cannot simply “convert” to in order to appease your own ridiculous notions of inter-marriage being okay as long as the odar learns the Eibuben, eats dolma, and learns to say “Barev” to your relatives. Unless you have been living under a rock, you would notice all the things I speak of as clear dangers to all of us instead of subscribing to this reckless abandonment of the value of being Hyes and why it’s important to protect ourselves, our way of life, as well as our culture the way our ancestors/forefather/foremothers did.

 

ON THE ISSUE OF “OPINIONS”, well nothing I have said has been mere opinion, everything stems from FACTUAL observation and the realities of ethnic guidelines/borders. Perhaps most importantly, neither I nor anyone else needs to be or WILL BE PACIFIED into good little “opinion” respecting dolts. My “opinion” is that the world is flat and that gravity does not exist, however FACTS dictate that my opinion is GROSSLY WRONG. Don’t mind these facts though, go on now, “RESPECT” my “OPINION” and open a tenth story window, and jump out. We’ll see how much gain you will attain from your “respect” of my “opinion” as you’re plummeting to Earth ready to go SPLAT. Doesn’t quite work, does it? Some opinions are simply TOO IDIOTIC to “respect”, however, THOSE who would love ARMENIANS DESTROYED and our CULTURE wiped clean off the face of the Earth have somehow convinced some folks in our Hye communities to lay down “their ways” and to “RESPECT” the “OPINIONS” of dating/marrying odars as being acceptable like good little morons.

 

 

Historic FACTS dictate that we will surely perish as a people if we subscribe to this ideology of inter-marriage/dating and let go of our CENTURIES old values and wisdom. I, nor ANY OTHER SELF RESPECTING HYE MAN will EVER “respect” opinions that endanger our culture, way of life, and lineage. Like I said before, if you have any self value for yourself, your identity, for those that died for us in 1915, and those that are still suffering to protect our identity, then wake up and smell the coffee GENTLEMEN. Ladies, if you decide to turn your back and become ztoolvatz then PLEASE, I implore you, DON’T COME BACK, EVER! To the Hye men on this forum, NEVER tolerate this type of behavior. That means those that show up with a sev, spanatzi, spitak, gabuiyt, garmir, inch vor uzuma elni, on their arm professing a “progressive” way of thought, let them know THEY ARE NOT WELCOME. Our grandmothers/grandfathers did not die so we could voluntarily allow what they paid with their lives to condemn. MENK ENK ES AZGI YEV MESHAGUIYTI DEXAMARTNERE yev pashpanoxnere, the incipient destruction of our identity through the actions of porniks and careless Hyes will not be tolerated with impunity.

 

Be steadfast, ruthless, and fierce as Hye men in protecting our identity. Today we face very RADICAL PROBLEMS as Hyes, and RADICAL mannerisms and way of thought are needed. Being compliant sheep will cause a repeat of 1915 but instead of a scimitar at the throats of our mothers and kuyriks it will be an odar jacka$$ with a Hye axchik on his arm smiling and asking you to “respect their opinion”.

 

Screw respecting imbecile opinions. The only respect these types of Hyes deserve is the same respect and value they showed toward our culture and identity, which is none. I think at some point some Hye women have convinced themselves that we as Hye men are blind and deaf and do not see them WHORING AROUND with odars. Nothing could be further from the truth, we all pay CLOSE ATTENTION, especially the educated among us. Just make sure that when you take that step with an odar, don’t ever come back and try and be with a Hye guy, WE DON’T WANT YOU.

 

Our mothers were never odar leftovers and our children’s mothers will not be either, remember that. No one will ever assail our culture and identity with impunity, NO ONE.

 

 

-The Armenian Pirate

 

 

[Ashot]

wow, shocking but somewhat true!!! But please, let's not be so offensive!!! Everyone has their own opinion, and if we all get offensive what will it bring us to. Lets keep it more neutral rather than offensive, I understand where you anger comes from, but we do not need offenses against one another. The point would get accross only if it is in a teaching way rather than offending!!!

 

Thank you

[kakachik77]

So this "should we marry them or not" has become a re-occuring topic on Hyeforum and on various other Armenian forums and chat rooms. For some reason I have never seen a topic about "Do THEY want to marry us?" I know, I know we are too good to be asked that question...etc etc. I have personally been an open-minded person throughout my life thinking that human beings should find each other FIRST and then discover each others' cultures, nationalities etc. But from my observations and life experiences actually most cultures discriminate against others specially when things come to marriage and kids. And from my experience others discriminate against Armenians as much as Armenians discriminate against others.

 

These days I am a proponent of an Armenian-to-Armenian marriage, not sure how I got here but it just makes more sense to me at the end of the day. Cheers!

[Ashot]

Kakachik hima inch anem, aveli konkret xostovanvem???

[kakachik77]

Kakachik hima inch anem, aveli konkret xostovanvem???

 

inch tgha jan?

 

I still have to expand on my background in the other thread..maybe I'll get to that this weekend.hehe

[Ashot]

inch tgha jan?

 

I still have to expand on my background in the other thread..maybe I'll get to that this weekend.hehe

Ya do that!!! then well get to know one another better

[Anahid Takouhi]

Ya do that!!! then well get to know one another better

 

 

isk incu indz etpes ches asums ?