THOTH Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 No Thoth, not perfect. Though an immunity to religion is one step towards perfection. Even the religious should admit that - since their faith requires them to admit that their imperfection, after the Fall of Adam, is the reason for their religion. Before the Fall, when God walked with Adam and Eve in the Garden, there was no religion, and no need for redemption. Yes I agree on why the religious should think such...but I don't believe that there is such a thing as perfection - nor are there gods not made from the minds of humans (and maybe even Domino will agree wioth this one - eh?). And redemption - well thats a very personal matter - but the ability for such (and acting on such) is certainly a matter/an oppurtunity for personal growth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted January 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 I would be interested to know if any athiests here ever believed in a God before coming to their opinion that there wasn't one. I think that once a Christian, always a Christian (same for Islam, and Judaeism and the whole lot of them). It's like an infectious disease that it is impossible to cure - there may be moments of remission but it gets you all in the end. All formerly religious types return to the fold in the end. But it couldn't happen to me, because I am immune. And have been for as long as it is possible to be (like from two years old, or maybe even less). Steve Yes Steve, it's possible for people to believe in God and then change their opinions. The more one studies world religions, and world history, and philosophy, and ethics, and science, etc., and if he/she has the ability to be open-minded and think for oneself the more one realizes that humans have always stuggled with the unknown. And one comes to realize that all of these "fantasies" people have created throughout the centuries (and continue to create) are just a pathetic attempt to explain what we don't know and can't possible ever know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 Atheism is silly. During sex, everyone believes in God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 Gevo jan, keep cool and don't pay much attention to THOTH's provocations. He has great spiritual problems. He would not be a militant atheist otherwise. Thx Axel Jan Sasun, your right ape, i did completely misunderstand you.. lol.. my bad hang out a bit longer and we will learn about each other more Im delighted to have found this site Sasun, i will be here for a long time If it were to come from God, why didn't He wish that more people be good? Or did He wish so but wasn't able to accomplish that? Anousik jan, i think all you need to know for this is the first few chapters of the bible, and keeping in mind that we have free will... We are givin everything by God, and what we do with it is based on our own self judgment... and that judgment is based on a beleif system, or lack of it (atheism)...(actually i have also read many places and heard quite good arguments at how atheism is a religion of its own...) anyways.... If you have free will, God wont make things good for you, because think about it, if God made everything good, that means we would be controlled, and then what? """Free WILL""" is very misunderstood by many.... I will make a deal with you gevo...stop preaching to me/us and bringing up the bible and i will stop refuting it and your assertions (etc)...otherwise no deal... Thoth JAN, take a look at the topic of this thread.. lol.. How can you argue against atheism without asserting there is a God.. LOL.. thats the funniest thing iv heard.. I would make the deal with you,, but we wouldnt have anything more to say.. lol...And what i am saying is not preaching, but using valid arguments against atheism, but you are making jokes and satirical links.... big difference. Gods are made...not born. Thot, i hate to break this to you i think your wrong with both those statements, first mistakes "gods" plural??? second neither is God born nor is he made.. Thot I believe that if I brush me teeth 3 times daily I will go to heaven. I am unshaken in this belief. Nothing you say or show me will change this. Its just to bad that I can only manage twice daily... thats just rediculous... bellthecat: I think that once a Christian, always a Christian (same for Islam, and Judaeism and the whole lot of them) Well, not completely true for all, but generally yes... THOT, you have a long ways to g in here still t come up for your self a position in which you will hold firm, you have been ranting on and on meaningless conversations, and continue to ridicule and offend everyone else who is argueing against you. What your have been saying in last couple pages are pure nonsense, nothing you say holds true with the the post you make, and this conversation started as an intelligent one, but ou have turned it inside out. I am with axel on this one, i wont post again till there is something meaningful to argue against.... Domino, i like your descritions, i havent really thought of that before... And bellthecat, you also have interesting view... I have learned from you guys, but You THOT, you have said nothing meaningful, nothing you can proove, because you disprove and contradict yourself so many times.. You are getting lost in emotions and dont know what you wanna say... good luck with you, and God does very much so exist.. the Big Bang .... I CANT BELEIVE ANYONE WHO THINKS THIS MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED>> LMAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 The more one studies world religions, and world history, and philosophy, and ethics, and science, etc., and if he/she has the ability to be open-minded and think for oneself the more one realizes that humans have always stuggled with the unknown. And one comes to realize that all of these "fantasies" people have created throughout the centuries (and continue to create) are just a pathetic attempt to explain what we don't know and can't possible ever know. Most excellent - I agree completely.... And there is really nothing more to say on this issue... So, I will keep believing in brushing my teeth (and laughing about not getting inot heaven).... And gevo and Axel and such can keep (falsely of course) believeing in the divinity of their book... And Domino can keep believeing in other universes where perhaps he has a girlfriend...(and BTW - I never said that this universe was the only one....I don't know the answer to that).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 (edited) Infact i think we can say that there is no such thing as atheism.. lol... Anather truism from the mind of gevo...LOL The Bibles integrity has been challenged many times, but it still stands because it has power of word to action... Pleaaaaaseee...! http://www.cygnus-study.com/ (specifically for you go to the part under the Bible called biblical errors) http://www.foreverseeking.com/christ1.html from above: If God sent his son to save us from damnation, which we were doomed to be without his help, then I would agree that that would make God a hero to save us all. Unfortunately, it isn't. The situation proposed is dependent on the idea that God is all that is good and perfect, standing against all that is evil and immoral. That however, is not what the bible proposes. If God truly is "ALL", then he is the embodiment of ALL that is good, AND ALL that is evil. In fact, the bible states just that (Isaiah 45:5-8:: "5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it."). Once again, you honestly can not have it both ways. The God concept can not be ALL powerful and NOT have created and be the embodiment of evil. In such a case, the "hero" part of this, where God is offering us salvation from himself, is moot, for he created the entire situation to necessitate salvation (from himself) from the beginning. IF there were a separate entity to which had created this situation that God were saving us from, we would have a much different discussion, but that is not what we are presented with. That is why we must keep separate the concept of the unknowable "God" and the Christian view of who "God" is. Because of this, we have to look at a different issue all together. When I had many questions about the bible, and the Christian concept of God, I realized that just understanding the simplistic which was presented earlier was not enough. You have to step COMPLETELY back. You have to go to the very foundation of the concept of God, to the foundation of Christianity, and examine its inception, and its scripture, and it's history. I had to ask the fundamental question: Why is this belief the "truth," and the "only truth"? (see the site for a continuation) Edited January 13, 2004 by THOTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 (edited) This is a pretty worthwhile read - Quotes from ex-Christians http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/quotes.html And the mother site - "Leaving Christianity" http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/decon.html#contents Edited January 13, 2004 by THOTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 (edited) Another god one: "Is God a criminal?" (God put on trial).. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/bil...iminal-god.html "Nuremberg is still too fresh in the memories of humanity for any such doubt to exist. The Old Testament records multiple incidents where God ordered the Jews to commit atrocities that constitute crimes under the Principles, as stated above. According to the Principles, God must be found to be guilty of crimes against peace, war crimes, and crimes against humanity." And - "Biblical Atrocities" http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/don.../atrocity.shtml And - "A moral argument for Atheism" (more of Gods crimes are listed...[startiong about 1/4 way down the page]) http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ray...dley/moral.html "the theist God--as he supposedly reveals himself in the Jewish and Christian Bibles--either himself commits, commands others to commit, or condones, acts which violate every one of our five principles." Edited January 13, 2004 by THOTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 A Christian wrote: "God did not create evil. Evil is simply the state where God is not present." If "God did not create evil" then what of the following? Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. Joshua 23:15 Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things. Judges 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit 1 Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. 2 Samuel 12:11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house 1 Kings 9:9 ...therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil. 1 Kings 14:10 Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam 2 Kings 6:33 ...Behold, this evil is of the LORD; 2 Kings 21:12 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle. 2 Kings 22:16 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place 2 Chronicles 34:24 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof... Nehemiah 13:18 Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? Jeremiah 4:6 Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction. Jeremiah 6:19 Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people Jeremiah 11:11 Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them Jeremiah 25:29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil Jeremiah 35:17 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon Judah and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem all the evil that I have pronounced against them: Jeremiah 44:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Ye have seen all the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, and upon all the cities of Judah Jeremiah 45:5 ...behold, I will bring evil upon all flesh, saith the LORD: Jeremiah 49:37 ...I will bring evil upon them, even my fierce anger, saith the LORD; and I will send the sword after them, till I have consumed them: Micah 1:12 .... evil came down from the LORD Micah 2:3 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, against this family do I devise an evil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 Taken from yet another website: Religious zealotry over the centuries has been directly responsible for countless deaths, imprisonments, needless suffering, torturings, and the oppression of people on grounds of sex, race, colour, sexuality or belief. A few obvious examples : The Crusades. The Inquisition. Witch trials in Europe and America. The Divine right of Kings (valid until killed by another Divinely-appointed King). Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, "heathen" religions and cultures. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans ("They're devil-worshippers!"), the Romans demonizing Christians ("They're atheists and cannibals!"). Persecution of Heretics - e.g. Galileo for daring to suggest that the Earth orbits the Sun. Children dying because their parents refused them medical treatment on religious grounds; relying instead on faith-healers and prayer. Slavery, supposedly supported by scripture ("Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, just as you would obey Christ.", St.Paul, Ephesians 6:5) Holy wars - followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought. Persecution/punishment of blasphemers (Salman Rushdie still has a death sentence on him), and blasphemy laws in general. The requirement of theism in order to stand for public office or to testify in court. Serial killers believing they are doing the work of Satan (or sometimes Jesus). Often-fatal exorcisms by priests believing they are destroying the work of Satan. People suffering dreadful injury or death in the belief that their faith has made them invulnerable (e.g. people climbing into lion enclosures at zoos, with a Bible as protection). Whole societies divided by minor differences in belief or doctrine, often resulting in violence. Mass suicides of cult-members following a charismatic leader who believes the world is about to End (most recently, the Heaven's Gate and Solar Temple cults - there will be more as we approach the year 2000). The attempted genocide of followers of a particular faith (e.g. the Jewish Holocaust, "ethnic cleansing" in former Yugoslavia). Blood sacrifices to appease the Gods, or to ensure a good harvest. (The Aztecs made daily human sacrifices to ensure that the Sun would rise. Or did they? ) The practice of "female circumcision" (more accurately termed genital mutilation). The discouragement of rational, critical thought (resulting in young-earth creationists, for example). Uncontrolled population growth caused (or at least helped) by churches prohibiting birth-control and abortion. (You can also add : unwanted pregnancies, ill-fated forced marriages, and pregnant teenagers condemned to a life in mental institutions to avoid embarrassing their families.) The spread of sexually transmitted diseases (e.g. AIDS) due to churches prohibiting the use of condoms. Believers whipping, impaling, poisoning or crucifying themselves during religious festivals as a demonstration of their faith and piety. Suicide bombers taught to believe that martyrs go straight to Paradise. The indoctrination of children into the religion of their parents, giving them an arbitrary, life-long belief that is almost entirely dependent on their place of birth. Women treated as second-class citizens or even slaves (article : Islam's Shame). Pentecostal snake-handlers (Augusta Chronicle news article) Persecution of homosexuals (Genocide of gay and lesbian youth) Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children). Minor religions ("cults") stockpiling weapons to defend themselves from the Armies Of Satan (i.e. the police and the government). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 Hitler the devout Catholic http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/march97/holocaust.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 Christianity and Violence http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/chri..._viol_index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 What is Atheisim? http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/...m?terms=linkbox Defining Atheisim http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathd_index.htm Is Atheism a religion? (no) http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/...el_religion.htm Can Atheisits be religious or spiritual (yes) http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/...l_religious.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 (edited) I haven't read this one - but it certainly looks worth checking out - (Interesting this guy is a Turk! LOL) http://www2.truman.edu/~edis/books/ghost/ Emphasizing the results of natural science, Edis presents a universe where complexity, intelligence, and even the sublime heights of religious experience emerge from what is ultimately material and random. Sympathetically criticizing Muslim and New Age perspectives, as well as contemporary Jewish and Christian arguments, he argues that a thoroughgoing naturalism leads to a much better explanation of our world. While making it clear that spiritual views have a genuine intellectual appeal, Edis systematically critiques such arguments, contrasting them with stronger naturalistic explanations. Science is central to this naturalistic picture; modern physics, evolutionary biology, and critical history, as well as contemporary psychology and brain sciences, all cast doubt on any spiritual reality And soem nice reviews - (I really must get and read this book! And pass it on to an evangleical cousin of mine! LOL) http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/rncse_con..._12_30_1899.asp http://homepage.ntlworld.com/anthony.campb...ews/r/edis.html http://www2.truman.edu/~edis/books/ghost/reviews/choice.html http://www2.truman.edu/~edis/books/ghost/reviews/rnost.html (an interesting aside: Edis has a strong background in Islam, and recalls being a boy in Turkish schools and learning to celebrate "the conquering march of Muslim armies." He then goes on to admit that, "It took me long to realize I was being taught to feel pride in pillage and enslavement." ) http://www.chowk.com/paint_picks_book_revi....cgi?pbookid=52 In his Conclusions “The God of Song and Story”, Edis writes, “Muslim apologists like to say that every one, deep down, knows there is a God: atheists fool themselves even about their own beliefs. I think otherwise. If my arguments add up to anything, there is, in all likelihood, no ghost in the universe. There is no divine reality which theologians are imperfectly trying to tell us about. We have many questions, some of which we may never answer, but no reason to invent a God.” http://www2.truman.edu/~edis/books/ghost/reviews/ (a whole list of reviews at the above) Edis was born in Turkey in 1967 to liberal parents. In his own words, “My (Edis’s) father is a hardcore Turkish secularist, with no patience for religion intruding on modern life. My mother, who grew up irreligious in California, seems slightly curious about religion at most, mainly as something other people do. They might have some vague beliefs in some sort of higher creative power, but even today, I’m not exactly sure,” (http://www2.truman.edu/-edis/writings/articles/critic.html). Edis received his first degree, B.S., from Bogazici University, Istanbul, Turkey, and his graduate degrees (M.A., Physics, and Ph.D., Physics) from The John Hopkins University, Baltimore. He is an Assistant Professor of Physics at Truman State University (Northeast Missouri State University), Kirksville, Missouri. Edited January 13, 2004 by THOTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 (edited) And Domino can keep believeing in other universes where perhaps he has a girlfriend...(and BTW - I never said that this universe was the only one....I don't know the answer to that).... This is absurd, you keep contradicting yourself, continue this way and you will beat religious scriptures contradictions. You called my presentation absurd, while the bases of it was about multiple universe, and now you claim you never denied the possibility of the existance of more than one universe. The next time read the works of people you try to post here, because some that knows them may answer you back. Taner Edis for instance is known for the theory of bubble universes and pop up, he is a strong supporter of the multiple universe. This is because someone that is atheistic is forced to accept the multiple universe theory. If there is no God, there should be a huge numbers of universes, and this is exactlly what this physicist affirm with his principal theses. More ironic it is that this physicist is one of those which I have read before comming to my final conclusion. So, here it comes, the only reference that worth any credence support my view of the universe when in the same time he has as religion atheism... Here is the exact paradox which atheists faces... since they are forced to conclude the multiple universe, and that they are forced to recognise that time being a dimention it can not exist independenly from a universe... therefore, which bubble happens first or later is irrelevent. If that is so, in one universe the possibility that this universe has created the others is quit possible, and this is precisly one of the proposition of the String theory, where by chance some times a mistake happen, where two universes passes on the same position on the 11 dimentions... and a new big bang is created. So therefore, it takes one universe where a God could exist, to support that it created the rest, and it takes at least one univers where a God does not exist and that has not created any of the other universes. This means that in both cases, the answer is not satisfactory. Until now Thoth, you have turned this thread into sarcasm and posted irrelevent posts that have nothing to do with the subject, if you want to criticise religion go ahead start a thread and stop acting like an immature kid here. You are acting like a Turk that start copypasting materials that have nothing to do with the subject discussed to divert the attention from the central issue. Since now, you have even not answered to my critics, you have even not tried to understand them, you have even answered me by showing that there is high chances that you have even not read what I have posted. And you end up with a message that has nothing to do with me, so what is next, I mean, now that you refer to a girlfriend, what is next? Why have you to change the subject and talk about the fact that I have no girlfriend, can you for once try to talk about something which has nothing to do with wine, sex and cars? I am not attacking you here, let me remind you that you started attacking me when before even trying to understand what I bring you called what I present as absurd, and when I asked you to counter what I claim, you changed the subject and at the end you claim that you never denied that there could be more than one universe. And now you bring the subject of girlfriends. Why? Another thing that i want to make clear, being friends does not mean that two person must have the same ideas the same opinions and that they should not disagree, Everytime I disagree with you, you start acting like a sh.t, I still try to wonder the why of this. And more, when someone has an exchange with you, you must first try to consider the other as much intelligent as you. If you remark and read my posts here in hyeforum, you will realise that when someone does not understand what i bring, I accuse myself of not being clear enought, read the exchanges I had with Sasun, and you will see that by yourself. On the other hand, when you don't understand what I post, you do not say that you did not understand(my grammar, maybe to technical etc...) and ask to clarify, you directly reject what I bring and claim it to be absurd, and even bring your theses as something that is certain. You kill the discussion right away when you do that. I have many more things to add, but i will stop for now. Edited January 13, 2004 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 I never claimed that mutiple universes were not possible. I said i don't necissarily believe that they are reality as their is no proof beyond (qyestionable) abstract mathamatics - and i am fully aware that this is the belief if the day. And I deny that there is any paradox - that an Atheist muct believe in mutiple Universes - this is just absurd. And Domino -i just laugh when you accuse me of bringing absurd arguments into the picture. We are talking atheisim and Chistianity and such and you bring in Fadixism so give me a break. And from my perspective it is you who seem very determined to oppose anything i may post and such and you who make it personal (and who can't take a joke besides)... So no - I really don't consider you much of a friend anymore anyway. I mean what kind of friend are you who spares no oppurtunity to come at me as you do. You think I'm blind to this. And I was aware of Edis and Bubble theory and such (but only just today when i came accross him -not before- but I was aware when I posted) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 (edited) I never claimed that mutiple universes were not possible. I said i don't necissarily believe that they are reality as their is no proof beyond (qyestionable) abstract mathamatics - and i am fully aware that this is the belief if the day. And I deny that there is any paradox - that an Atheist muct believe in mutiple Universes - this is just absurd. And Domino -i just laugh when you accuse me of bringing absurd arguments into the picture. We are talking atheisim and Chistianity and such and you bring in Fadixism so give me a break. And from my perspective it is you who seem very determined to oppose anything i may post and such and you who make it personal (and who can't take a joke besides)... So no - I really don't consider you much of a friend anymore anyway. I mean what kind of friend are you who spares no oppurtunity to come at me as you do. You think I'm blind to this. And I was aware of Edis and Bubble theory and such (but only just today when i came accross him -not before- but I was aware when I posted) Tell me Winston, you claim there is no paradox. Are you claiming that 1/(over 10^1000 etc...) is what just happened? You tell me that there is no paradox for an atheistic that claim that there is just one universe and that there is no intelligent designer? This is more absurd then claiming that I can fly without any exterior help. Because the probability for that to happen is billions of billions of billions etc... higher then the possibility that all subatomic particules are build in a such a way as to permit life. Go ask to any atheistic physicist why they recognise MWT as almost certainty, more so than the God of physic, Quantum mechanic. I HAVE NOT PRESENTED ANY FADIXISM HERE!!! My theory is nothing new, and as I said many times, it does not come from me. This theory was even proposed by the fathers of Quantum mechanic near a century ago. What I presented was a critic of atheism, nothing more or less. You on the other hadn started copypasting materials which had nothing to do with the prime discussion which was atheism. Not considering friend? You know and knew that I hate anarchism, you know and knew I hate determinism... anyone harboring those two will expect having an answer from me. Look at Sasun, we exchanged a lot on the topic and disagree a lot, the reason that I do not attack him the way I do with you, is because at least before answering he try to understand what I mean, when he does not understand he just don't answer or admit he do not understand... If you prefer a friend that just shut up when he thinks you are in the wrong, that's fine for you. Edited January 13, 2004 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 (edited) Hmmm... after reading a second time, maybe I was a little rude. I appologise if I offensed you. But your post saying what I say was absurd without even trying to understand it, made me furious. Edited January 13, 2004 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 it is pretty clear who has been rude and intolerant in this thread and who has brought a lot of hateful trash.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 I have no clue if there is any intelligent designer - thoguh i fully believe it does not require one - and I am not the first to claim such. I fundementally believe it is beyond either of us to make any claims to such - it is so far beyond what any of can no that it is not worth anythign mre then idle specualtion. And I don't consider you my friend not becuase of any disagreements - its that I cannot recall any actions on yoru part topwards me (in quite some time) that I woudl remotely construe as friendship. And Sasun - shut up your face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 I will restrain answering, since I think you are not yourself right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 don't be ridiculous thoth, who do you think you are to tell me to shut up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 kill! kill! kill! kill! kill! kill! kill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 The atheists know all the answers. Everyone is wrong for essentially having faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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