Anonymouse Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Well, from the time Darwin had his holy visions, and until now, there is little reason to believe in the theory of evolution, which is, yes, a belief. It is an assumption that we evolved, not an established fact. The desperate behavior of evolutionary scientists who have, over the years and century, tried to hold fast to an immutable theory, has not been becoming, resorting to childish tactics of intellectual dishonesty that would get any highschool student an F. From such biological frauds as gemmules, bathybius, and eozoon, to other frauds as notable as Nebraska Man, it is clear those who back evolutionary theory will go to any lengths to vindicate the already discredited theory. And when the fossil evidence does not match Darwins assertions of gradualism, all of a sudden we have imaginitive minds like Stephen J. Gould ( who would have faired better as a screenwriter ) who tell us about 'punctuated equilibria' and that really all change from one species to another is so drastic and so fast that there is no evidence of any intermediate forms. I'm tired of evolution being crammed down my throat as if its some absolute fact. Never will those egoists in the evolutionary department of biology ever concede that human intelligence and knowledge is limited and finite. Biology is tainted by this as some holy relic that for some reason if you go into biology, you cannot look at the world any other way other than having evolved. This is no different than telling people in France or Canada that you cannot question the veracity of the Holocaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 When everything fails turn to math, for it is the only definetness. Everything else is subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel4hope Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 math itself is only a concept...what are numbers? nothing is definite in life except death itself! believe me you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 When everything fails turn to math, for it is the only definetness. Everything else is subjective. Hahahaha did you talk to Domino lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 math itself is only a concept...what are numbers? nothing is definite in life except death itself! believe me you! .....and taxes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 math itself is only a concept...what are numbers? nothing is definite in life except death itself! believe me you! Actually even the Universe is based on the mathematical platform. So is life and death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Evolution is mathematically improbable, it should be noted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 .....and taxes! Gamavor jan , not entirely though, there are always ways to get around it, Mr. Franklin and Mr. Chase work wonders. Look at me, I sound like a Russian Mobster. <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Evolution is mathematically improbable, it should be noted. If you think about it the same way mathematics is also sort of mathematically improbable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Nope! You sound very legitimate, as usual! I just forgot about that option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 well, lets set asid math for a minute.. hummm.... If evolution is as it is thaught in textbooks, then i dont see what is stopping us here, now, sa the humans we are.. Why dont we keep evolving, surely this is not perfection, is it? Why do frogs not make fire? they would be much better suited if they did no? Why do dogs not talk, i mean according to the theory of evolution prehistoric humans had to language or sense of it right.. so well, dogs dont too, but whats keeping them from evolving to it?? The list will go on and on, my faovrite is, why dont i evolv another arm outta my chest, i could surely use it.. Plus, how does pure "chance" make us as perfect sa we are, we evolve from a pile of bacteria to the intelligent human beings we are today? Its complettely ridiculous, there is no evidence as u guys stated above... The reason for the theory of evolution was not because it wsa right, and it was not because of Darwins' work, it was because non beleivers had to come up with "some" explanation of how we came about, until then the creationist view ruled supreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Nope! You sound very legitimate, as usual! I just forgot about that option. Aaaah Gamavor jan! http://www.stuckatwork.com/smileys/handkiss.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 If you think about it the same way mathematics is also sort of mathematically improbable. Mathematics is the language of the universe. It is based on logic, hence it is provable and testable. Applying it to evolutionary theory regarding random mutations, math revealed that this is highly improbable. Of course I didn't say this, Murray Eden of MIT did, in 1966 during the Wistar Institute regarding evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Yeah, I see Anonymouse. I believe we have evolved but Darwin's theory may not be correct. There should be a driving force behind the evolution which is not acknowledged in his theory. It doesn't take into account the notion of entropy (I think this was discussed somewhere else in the forum) and so contradicts to the universal fact that things when left alone get less orderly/evolved not more orderly/evolved. Therefore, for the evolution to be true there must be a driving force. What is it? Could Darwin's natural selection serve as a driving force? Does it qualify as such? That is the question I am curious to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Also, Darwin's theory is very dangerous and has a racist basis. It was used by a lot of people as an excuse to rule over other people because they were 'more evolved'. A theory which supports the survival of the fittest (which may not even be true) is in my eyes a blight upon the world. Maybe he didn't mean it that way, but it can certainly be explained that way. Look at Nietzsche. I believe I've said before that I don't buy the evolution theory. There are to many holes in it in order to be called science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Anon you are absolutely correct. The evolution is a conspiracy theory. I am in firm believed that we were dropped on this earth by solar pigeons with advanced astral development. I am obsolete sure that 98% of primates gene pull being the same as humans is just accidental for lack of better term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Yes Armat - i'm with you..what a joke. Evolution is fact - as much fact as is possible..probably even more factual then your mathmatics Anon...like who is really to say/know/understand the real topology of the universe (or OK Domino multiverses) etc etc...talk abotu theories without much proof...and regarding fluctutions in the belief of such...and subject to extreme paradigm shifts...etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Today I went to pick up my son from school really bone chilly and while waiting, there was a dog near by and I noticed for the first time the dog actually blinked his eyes just the same way as we do.It is a small similarity along thousands of others... Scientists believe we involved from little rat like creatures since they were the first mammuls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Armat, when it comes to questions like origin of man, Darwin's evolution, etc.. science has not yet made a nearly certain conclusion as to how things have evolved. Every year or every 6 months there is major fossil discovery that contradict to earlier conclusions. Then revisions are made, questions raised, theories proposed, until there is new discovery to surprise, so on and so forth. It is far from being exact, there just a general framework and limited certainty. Darwin's evolution theory has been used as a more less reliable paradigm but it was never proven beyond doubt. Think about it, what would be a 100% proof? Perhaps if all the zillions of missing chains were found that would be a proof. Until then there will be doubts and revisions. The 98% commonality of human and monkey DNA is not a proof at all. Even if it was 100% it would not be a proof. It is only a supporting argument. A simplistic example, atoms look round, so do planets. Does that mean that there is any evolutionary link between planets and atoms? Of course not. Well, I am not a biologist, just a fiew thoughts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Sasun I agree with you in general but disagree that Darwin's evolution theory is limited certainty. It is proven that we have involved from much earlier prototypes and this alone is beyond limited but an actual fact. Weather all the puzzle is complete or not it does not matter. Analogy is more like a word puzzle that enough letters are predicted correctly to know the word and the rest is just details. I am kind of surprised that we even are talking about this. As I correctly understood Anon is not talking about the process details of evolution but disregards it totally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Yes Armat - i'm with you..what a joke. Evolution is fact - as much fact as is possible..probably even more factual then your mathmatics Anon...like who is really to say/know/understand the real topology of the universe (or OK Domino multiverses) etc etc...talk abotu theories without much proof...and regarding fluctutions in the belief of such...and subject to extreme paradigm shifts...etc etc How is evolution a fact? What part of 'theory' did you not understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 If you pay attention to those that defend evolution you will notice the minor words that in fact should spark doubt in any thinking individual that this is a faith based religion. Notice Armats assertion: Scientists believe we involved from little rat like creatures since they were the first mammuls. The key word is belief. Thank you for pointing that out. Evolution does rest on faith indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Sasun I agree with you in general but disagree that Darwin's evolution theory is limited certainty. It is proven that we have involved from much earlier prototypes and this alone is beyond limited but an actual fact. Weather all the puzzle is complete or not it does not matter. Analogy is more like a word puzzle that enough letters are predicted correctly to know the word and the rest is just details. I am kind of surprised that we even are talking about this. As I correctly understood Anon is not talking about the process details of evolution but disregards it totally. Armat, the theory as a theory is certain but it is not proven to be the truth. And there really is not a proof unlike what many claim. It would be nice that someone showed a proof rather than claim that there is. It is a widely accepted theory, a certain understanding that makes a lot of sense, but not a proven fact like we are used to know of other scientific facts such the laws of physics. The evidences to support Darwin's theory are far insufficient. I think that the puzzle is not solved, only a minority of necessary links have been found while majority are missing. I believe there was an evolution but I haven't seen any proof. (I wouldn't go as far as calling it a religion) And I have douts that Darwin's version of evolution is correct. Mind you, there could be many different theories of evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 How is evolution a fact? We are observing both evolution and mutation in our daily lives ... maybe not at the scale of dinosaur to human, but at an observable scale non the less. How else do you explain new viruses and bacteria that keep cropping up resistant to our previous ways of fighting them? How can you sit there and so comfortably claim evolution is just an "unproven theory" when RIGH BEFORE OUR EYES we see bacteria that have built up resistance to our anti biotics and are thus changing to survive better in a preceived hostile environment. And if you think the flu vaccine you took this year is going to protect you for years and years and years to come, since evolution and mutation are simply "unproven theories" ... then get I hope you have a lot of accumulated sick time at work, since we have definitely seen mutating viruses appearing with changes at the genetic level. What mostly gets lost in such discussions is that we only have a recorded history of several thousand years while evolutionary changes take place on the orders of millions and millions of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 The evolution is a fact, not theory, and that what is at issue within biology are questions of details of the process and the relative importance of different mechanisms of evolution. It is a fact that the earth with liquid water, is more than 3.6 billion years old. It is a fact that cellular life has been around for at least half of that period and that organized multicellular life is at least 800 million years old. It is a fact that major life forms now on earth were not at all represented in the past. There were no birds or mammals 250 million years ago. It is a fact that major life forms of the past are no longer living. There used to be dinosaurs and Pithecanthropus, and there are none now. It is a fact that all living forms come from previous living forms. Therefore, all present forms of life arose from ancestral forms that were different. Birds arose from nonbirds and humans from nonhumans. No person who pretends to any understanding of the natural world can deny these facts any more than she or he can deny that the earth is round, rotates on its axis, and revolves around the sun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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